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Index (Atlus) under criminal investigation for fraudulent accounting

W

wrowa

Member
If the worst case happens, I definitely hope that some more or less unrelated to this industry picks Atlus up. The gaming part of Index seems to be a really solid business, so it would be best if a new owner would just let them continue their stuff without interfering too much.
 
X

xero273

Member
duckroll said:
I think the majority of them are paper companies set up for the purpose of the alleged scam. The volume simply indicates that they were trying hard to hide their trails, not that a ton of people in the industry are involved.
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damn thought it was going to be an actual scandal where most of the big companies in Japan were involved
 
D

Datschge

Member
Caerith said:
If Index is found to be fraudulent through and through, with a history of criminal activity predating their acquisition of Atlus, can the acquisition be invalidated and Atlus set free?
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It doesn't work like this. Atlus went public in 1997, had a financial cooperation with Kadokawa Shoten starting in 2000, was bought by Takara in 2003 and finally by Index in 2006. In 2010 it was delisted and since then Atlus is legally no more, it's all Index Corporation. No idea what the situation is staff wise and whether going public again for the former Atlus staff would be possible at all.
 
M

MechaX

Member
Instro said:
Why would any of those things happen?
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Atlus has been very, very particular in where they put their titles over the past half-decade. They have essentially built the Etrian Odyssey series from the ground up on Nintendo handhelds. They started putting a significant bulk of classic MegaTen (or games with SMT I-esque atmosphere) on Nintendo handhelds (Soul Hackers 3ds, Strange Journey, IV, Devil Survivor 1 and 2). It is very telling that they released Devil Summoner 1 on the PSP, but then jumped ship with the other dungeon crawling titles.

In comparison, Sony platforms have gotten very focused experiences (stuff like Dragon's Crown, Growlancer, Catherine, and no Persona title has appeared on anything but a Sony platform in the franchise's entire history).

They have been very, very meticulous in building different audiences depending on the platform and it seems like they reaped the benefits somewhat in recent sales amounts. It would really, really suck for both a hypothetical "new" Atlus and the fanbases left out in the cold to see all of that work be essentially undone if Atlus goes first party for either Nintendo or Sony. And in terms of 3rd parties, I'm not convinced that Square-Enix got its head out of its ass in terms of competently managing a company just yet.

SEGA helped them distribute SMT4, right? I don't remember where I heard that before, but it sounds familiar...

lunchwithyuzo said:
Persona was also on Xbox 360. And will be again, provided Atlus survives this.
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The fighting game, sure. The main series? Eh, multiplatform was expected all along, but we'll see.
 
A

AranhaHunter

Banned
For people suggesting Sony, Sega, should buy them, how much would Atlus go for?

Atlus games have a hardcore following in the US and are decent sellers in JP. They would be an intriguing acquisitions for a couple of companies.

I don't know if it's public info how much Nintendo paid for Monolith, for some reason I can see it at work, but it was a bargain. I also think they didn't pay too much for Rare back in the days. What I'm trying to say is, if the value for atlus is in the tens of millions, Nintendo is out IMO. Also if Nintendo were to buy Atlus it would just increase their already huge stable of IPs. They have lots of franchises that sell better than SMT and Persona in JP, so Nintendo would probably see it as an added value to their 1st party output, not a necessity to get a stable 1st party system selling franchises in JP.

Sony would benefit a lot from buying Atlus as they only have 1 (GT), maybe 2 (HSG), franchises that sell as well as Persona and SMT. Sony hasn't invested in JP developers as they have in EU and US developers, but if they want to have a better 1st party in JP they would need to start. It's unknown if that's something they want, right now I would guess they don't want it.

I don't think MS would even consider it.

3rd parties such as SS, SE, Konami etc could buy them and keep business as usual or completely change them.

I think SCE would benefit the most out of acquiring them and I think SE would be the most interested in buying them if it ever came down to it.
 
Y

Yazan

Member
AranhaHunter said:
For people suggesting Sony, Sega, should buy them, how much would Atlus go for?

Atlus games have a hardcore following in the US and are decent sellers in JP. They would be an intriguing acquisitions for a couple of companies.

I don't know if it's public info how much Nintendo paid for Monolith, for some reason I can see it at work, but it was a bargain. I also think they didn't pay too much for Rare back in the days. What I'm trying to say is, if the value for atlus is in the tens of millions, Nintendo is out IMO. Also if Nintendo were to buy Atlus it would just increase their already huge stable of IPs. They have lots of franchises that sell better than SMT and Persona in JP, so Nintendo would probably see it as an added value to their 1st party output, not a necessity to get a stable 1st party system selling franchises in JP.

Sony would benefit a lot from buying Atlus as they only have 1 (GT), maybe 2 (HSG), franchises that sell as well as Persona and SMT. Sony hasn't invested in JP developers as they have in EU and US developers, but if they want to have a better 1st party in JP they would need to start. It's unknown if that's something they want, right now I would guess they don't want it.

I don't think MS would even consider it.

3rd parties such as SS, SE, Konami etc could buy them and keep business as usual or completely change them.

I think SCE would benefit the most out of acquiring them and I think SE would be the most interested in buying them if it ever came down to it.
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You need to valuate the company through different methods to really say how much the company is worth. It is especially difficult in a case like this as all their IPs are internally developed. Thus most of the acquistion will fall under the category goodwill, considering that their assets probably are not that big.
 
W

wrowa

Member
AranhaHunter said:
I don't know if it's public info how much Nintendo paid for Monolith, for some reason I can see it at work, but it was a bargain.
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You can see how much Nintendo paid for Monolith? You apparently have access to some quite interesting numbers in your job. :) I was under the impression that Nintendo didn't actually really pay real money for Monolithsoft. I remember that they reportedly traded their Bandai shares for the studio (since those turned out to be useless for Nintendo after Bandai merged with Namco).
 
R

Robert at Zeboyd Games

Banned
TheBryanJZX90 said:
Allright man, you asked for it, let's do it. As far as I can tell these are all of the ridiculous lyrics from the horrible P1PSP battle music:



And in comparison, you think this music is worse? Opinions and all but...

I lived in Japan for four years, half of which was teaching English, so I've had plenty of experience with Japanese English, but even for me some of these lyrics were just unintelligible. And I'm all for hilarious broken English (the cake that's on the paper became the real thing to eat!), but only when I'm reading it. When it's sung directly into my earballs every 10 steps I take in a dungeon, and then repeated for what seems like hours at a time, any quirky charm wears off pretty quick.
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If the music is catchy, they can be singing complete gibberish for all I care. The Persona PSX battle music was repetitive and uninteresting.
 
S

ShogunDarius

Member
since NIS is out of the question i'd want either GungHo or Sony.

Sony mainly as that would lead to some more vita games and the main series has been on their systems for a while now.
 
A

AranhaHunter

Banned
wrowa said:
You can see how much Nintendo paid for Monolith? You apparently have access to some quite interesting numbers in your job. :) I was under the impression that Nintendo didn't actually really pay real money for Monolithsoft. I remember that they reportedly traded their Bandai shares for the studio (since those turned out to be useless for Nintendo after Bandai merged with Namco).
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There was some cash exchange, but it was really insignificant for a company the size of Nintendo.
 
L

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
Any first party acquisition is pretty much out of the question imo. Nintendo would be the most likely as they're currently working with Atlus directly, Atlus primairily supports their platforms already and unlike Sony/MS they actually have bought a JP dev before, but even Nintendo is still so exceedly unlikely so as not to be wirth considering.

I think Sega would be the best fit as they have worked with Atlus on co-production before (SMT Mega CD, Last Bible III, Princess Crown, Maken-X), Atlus USA has historically picked up Sega localizations frequently, and (most importantly) Sega seems pretty supportive of their acquired atudios and keeps a comparably loose leash. Who knows, maybe Sega would push for PC ports of stuff like Catherine and P4 Arena too?

Square Enix would be like a death knell for Atlus though. Look at Quest or Taito, I don't see how any true fan of Atlus could wish that sort of fate on the company.



AranhaHunter said:
There was some cash exchange, but it was really insignificant for a company the size of Nintendo.
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There was a stock swap too, with Nintendo giving up their Bandai shares.
 
J

jcm

Member
Dracandros said:
First, this is a huge problem. If this was in the US, there would be a storm the size of Texas right now especially since there will be Congressional hearings over the problem of being able to pay for getting an consumer confidence index report 2 milliseconds before its released.

Index may or may not survive this (or may not want to survive this), so anything can happen. I know I don't trust most game companies to truly bring justice to anything, so the picture is really bleak.
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You think there would be a storm the size of Texas over accounting fraud at a small cap company?
 
D

Dracandros

Banned
jcm said:
You think there would be a storm the size of Texas over accounting fraud at a small cap company?
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Now that I know that it isn't a lot of companies involved (and that the company isn't that big), no. I would take that back.

I will still say that it's a devastating blow FWIW. Then again, it doesn't take much to change public perception.
 
S

Snakeyes

Member
Actually, I'll take back what I said about wanting Nintendo to buy Atlus earlier. It's best for them to remain a third party so their already niche games can be enjoyed on as many platforms as possible.
 
A

AniHawk

Member
holy shit. did not see that coming.

i wonder if atlus will be free to go. they existed by themselves before index bought them, right?

also: new thread?
 
B

buddha0991

Member
z2ca.jpg
 
M

Minions

Member
Well that was an interesting turn of events. Lots of good IP's potentially up for grabs. Please don't get purchased by Nintendo :x
 
C

CaptainSchwann

Member
Also just fyi, I'd recommend that anyone stateside who hasn't pre-ordered SMTIV do it now, as I get the feeling they're wont be a second print of it...
 
Gormless Noodle

Gormless Noodle

Member
AniHawk said:
how is it bad.
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Because it makes their games exclusive to Nintendo consoles. And considering the Wii U...I really, really, really, don't want to buy that thing. Nintendo home consoles, whether they sell 20 million or 100 million, barely get any 3rd party support. So I'd essentially be buying a console for one, maybe two games I like. It's just a waste of money really. Though obviously, that's just for me personally.
 
W

wrowa

Member
Tekkie said:
I hope Nintendo stay away from them, it's already bad enough that they have Monolith.
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I honestly doubt that Monolithsoft would still be alive if they wouldn't be part of Nintendo.

Well, okay, they would be alive as the OGsaga/licensed RPG/crossover bs shovelware studio.
 
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