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Metro Last Light dev: 'Wii U has horrible, slow CPU' [Up: DICE dev comments]

farnham

Banned
oh_you.jpg

There are precedents like factor5, silicon knights, free radicals.. Smaller studios that could not afford to pay the manpower for HD gaming but rather died trying than going with cheaper alternatives
 
Whoever planned to buy a wiiu due to thirad party support should now be very clear that third party support will not happen. If you anticipated metro or battle field on wiiu you will be dissapointed and you should not buy the wiiu...but somehow i doubt people that are buying the wiiu right now are buying it for other purposes

Western third party support I think you're right. Or just lousy ports. However it's still very well possible that games focussed on the Japanese market will have WiiU as their main home.

That's basically what I hope for: great Nintendo games, innovative indie games and Japanese games.
 

Stewox

Banned
Maybe they just wanted to do a quick port of unoptimized code and blamed it on the hardware. Typical.

It does sound just like one of those "speculation thread" anonymous dev rumor "not enough shaders" shit.
 

Piers

Member
I don't understand why Nintendo didn't just give the Wii U a competent CPU with fast RAM, it shouldn't be that hard to do nowadays ughhh Nintendo, you're making it very hard for me to like you right now

Sticking in quotes from the 'Iwata Asks' on the console...

Akagi said:
I worked on the SDK18 and absolutely love CPUs! (laughs) So I myself have been happy to see how far game consoles have come. I hope people will be impressed by the types of software enabled by the CPU.

Shiota said:
From the point of view of design, we didn't just simply apply the latest technology to improve performance. We decreased power consumption and made the casing smaller, so I think this console achieves a good balance between performance, power and chip size.

And Iwata himself,
Iwata said:
That has been our policy since the GameCube. No matter how great the numbers are that you can boast, can you only draw that out under certain conditions, or can you actually draw out its performance consistently when you use it? Insisting on the latter way of thinking has always been at the root of hardware and system development at Nintendo.

Bolded due to bevy of text (but all of it does clarify somewhat).
Not that I really agree to their choice on the WiiU's hardware architecture still, but hey. :(
 

farnham

Banned
Western third party support I think you're right. Or just lousy ports. However it's still very well possible that games focussed on the Japanese market will have WiiU as their main home.

That's basically what I hope for: great Nintendo games, innovative indie games and Japanese games.

Nintendo might profit from the weak state of the japanese gaming industry if sony goes the high end strategy with PS4
 
A DICE designer has also commented:

dicewiiuf1qdg.png

I love the arm-chair "know it all"-ism of the reply. "They couldn't be bothered because blah blah blah." Just shut up.

But isn't the relative power of the Wii U sort of old news at this point? The Wii U "is what it is," and it's not like it's surprising anybody. It's not a huge leap. But it is also going for a different manner of gaming. Nintendo operates in their own world, and it usually works out pretty well for them. This time will be no different. It will most likely also be no different on the flip side for third parties. Absent reason to "fly that flag" on a Nintendo system, they're just not going to. And it will be fiscal reasons, not power, that drives that decision more often than not. Same as always, there is nothing new under the sun. At any rate, that particular matter will evolve as it becomes evident which way Wii U is trending.
 
I love the arm-chair "know it all"-ism of the reply. "They couldn't be bothered because blah blah blah." Just shut up.

But isn't the relative power of the Wii U sort of old news at this point? The Wii U "is what it is," and it's not like it's surprising anybody. It's not a huge leap. But it is also going for a different manner of gaming. Nintendo operates in their own world, and it usually works out pretty well for them. This time will be no different. It will most likely also be no different on the flip side for third parties. Absent reason to "fly that flag" on a Nintendo system, they're just not going to. And it will be fiscal reasons, not power, that drives that decision. Same as always, there is nothing new under the sun. At any rate, that particular matter will evolve as it becomes evident which way Wii U is trending.

the sobering summation of the situation for those hoping for more.
 

Reiko

Banned
I love the arm-chair "know it all"-ism of the reply. "They couldn't be bothered because blah blah blah." Just shut up.

But isn't the relative power of the Wii U sort of old news at this point? The Wii U "is what it is," and it's not like it's surprising anybody. It's not a huge leap. But it is also going for a different manner of gaming. Nintendo operates in their own world, and it usually works out pretty well for them. This time will be no different. It will most likely also be no different on the flip side for third parties. Absent reason to "fly that flag" on a Nintendo system, they're just not going to. And it will be fiscal reasons, not power, that drives that decision. Same as always, there is nothing new under the sun.

I see it at as too little, too late for some third party developers to care. I mean look how long it took for the PS3 growing pains to end. We're at the tail end of this generation and devs are already working on Sony and MS next gen machines.

Wii U would have had a better shot if it released with the Xbox 360 instead of the original Wii. The playing field would have been even in regards to dev support. IMO
 
Nintendo might profit from the weak state of the japanese gaming industry if sony goes the high end strategy with PS4

Why is that ?
I see people expecting Wii U to get allot of Japanese games but i don't if that is the case.
Most major Japanese companies IPs can't survive from Japan alone if PS4 and 720 together out sell Wii U and the games hard to port it will be just like this gen .
Then you have certain companies that might make games on PS4 but hardly use the power like NIS , GUST etc etc
 
The thing about going for a "different kind of gaming" is that the kind of gaming WiiU is going for would benefit from a better CPU and faster RAM.

As it is right now, the OS is super slow and a lot of multitasking you'd think would be present are not to much disappointment.

I don't know how a smaller system and lower TDP achieves the kind of gameplay they want...
 

freddy

Banned
Btw, congrats to the mods for keeping all the crazies penned up in here and giving them a bit of free reign. The WiiU threads have been great without the usual fan wars nonsense.
 
Nintendo might profit from the weak state of the japanese gaming industry if sony goes the high end strategy with PS4

There's no doubt Sony will go high end. They don't have a choice either, they need the multiplat blockbusters to be in the same ballpark quality as on the next Xbox. With Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest on WiiU, combined with the lower specs that might suit Japanese developers better at this moment, WiiU might be able to attract lots of Japanese support (for which there's still a reasonable market in the West).

Why is that ?
I see people expecting Wii U to get allot of Japanese games but i don't if that is the case.
Most major Japanese companies IPs can't survive from Japan alone if PS4 and 720 together out sell Wii U and the games hard to port it will be just like this gen .
Then you have certain companies that might make games on PS4 but hardly use the power like NIS , GUST etc etc

Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest all but ensure WiiU will sell very well. PS4 will be at least a year later on the market and it's unlikely a mainline Final Fantasy will be there in the first year(s).
 
Wii U would have had a better shot if it released with the Xbox 360 instead of the original Wii. The playing field would have been even in regards to dev support. IMO

The Wii turned out to be exactly what Nintendo needed to do when they did it. Coming off the GameCube, a beefier system without the disruption of the input method just wasn't going to get Nintendo anywhere. Sure, perhaps Wii could have been more powerful then just as Wii U could maybe stand to be more powerful now, but it wasn't, and it had an exceptional few years.

I know less than squat about what sort of games are going to be on Wii U, I don't exactly follow it all that closely. But my hunch is that it's not going to have the same disruptive impact as the Wii, and it wouldn't have had that type of impact in 2006, either. But that doesn't mean that the Wii U in 2012 and beyond cannot build upon what the Wii started and gain from the Wii legacy. History has proven Nintendo right with the Wii. We'll just have to want and see what it says about the followup.
 

QaaQer

Member
Why is that ?
I see people expecting Wii U to get allot of Japanese games but i don't if that is the case.
Most major Japanese companies IPs can't survive from Japan alone if PS4 and 720 together out sell Wii U and the games hard to port it will be just like this gen .
Then you have certain companies that might make games on PS4 but hardly use the power like NIS , GUST etc etc

Dont forget about region lock and how hard it is to get nintendo to localize things. If there are lots of Japanese games, how does that help everyone else?
 

Pooya

Member
*IF* DICE doesn't have WiiU, it mean no Frostbite 2.0 for WiiU which basically means next to no support from EA as they are moving all their projects to FB.
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
I love the arm-chair "know it all"-ism of the reply. "They couldn't be bothered because blah blah blah." Just shut up.

But isn't the relative power of the Wii U sort of old news at this point? The Wii U "is what it is," and it's not like it's surprising anybody. It's not a huge leap. But it is also going for a different manner of gaming. Nintendo operates in their own world, and it usually works out pretty well for them. This time will be no different. It will most likely also be no different on the flip side for third parties. Absent reason to "fly that flag" on a Nintendo system, they're just not going to. And it will be fiscal reasons, not power, that drives that decision. Same as always, there is nothing new under the sun. At any rate, that particular matter will evolve as it becomes evident which way Wii U is trending.
I think artistic pride is a major factor here. The PC version of BF3 is by far the worst selling, but it's the one closest to DICE's original vision so they put a lot of effort into it. Publicly owned corporations primarily care about the bottom line but the devs themselves are more passionate about realizing their ideas.

If something about a platform is an obstacle to a dev's goals then it's no surprise to see them get vocal about it.
 
I rather the Wii U last 6 years then 15 for sure, it would be too boring, for example people are already begging for the next Xbox because the 360 been out for 7 years and it's become boring without new hardware.

I agree and I think that's why some of us were so excited for Wii U. Regardless of the Hardware, there are some interesting things that Nintendo has added (Miiverse, TVii, GamePad=TV Remote, etc...).
 
There's no doubt Sony will go high end. They don't have a choice either, they need the multiplat blockbusters to be in the same ballpark quality as on the next Xbox. With Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest on WiiU, combined with the lower specs that might suit Japanese developers better at this moment, WiiU might be able to attract lots of Japanese support (for which there's still a reasonable market in the West).

Just a point here: developers don't have to take full advantage of the hardware to make a game on the 720/PS4 just because the power is there, you know? PSN/XBLA are examples. They can make a WiiU-grade game as far as visuals go and sell it on the 720/PS4 if they like. If they do that, they'll probably also be able to run that same game at 1080p/60 on the 720/PS4.

They don't have to try to use all the power to make software that will sell.

*IF* DICE doesn't have WiiU, it mean no Frostbite 2.0 for WiiU which basically means next to no support from EA as they are moving all their projects to FB.
EA likes money. There will be Frostbite 2.0 on WiiU. Let's not get crazy.
 
Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest all but ensure WiiU will sell very well. PS4 will be at least a year later on the market and it's unlikely a mainline Final Fantasy will be there in the first year(s).

That is 2 IPs out of how many, 1 that is much stronger on handheld and the other is a MMO.
I also expect the next DQ game to be on 3DS and not home console .

Japanese companies have a big problem to tell the truth .
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Err from what I've played, it's an unoptimized mess (I played the PC version, mind you).

Certain settings make the game nigh playable so yeah maybe it is unoptimized but when settings in games have that much of an impact I usually just turn them off.
 

vitacola

Member
There's no doubt Sony will go high end. They don't have a choice either, they need the multiplat blockbusters to be in the same ballpark quality as on the next Xbox.
Yeah, because Sony got all the money they earned with their TV section and others to support another fail like the Vita. Oh, wait. They don't.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
Certain settings make the game nigh playable so yeah maybe it is unoptimized but when settings in games have that much of an impact I usually just turn them off.
Or it could be that those higher settings are beyond typical current card performance, no matter how optimized.

Reminds me of when people called Crysis poorly optimized.
 
I think artistic pride is a major factor here. The PC version of BF3 is by far the worst selling, but it's the one closest to DICE's original vision so they put a lot of effort into it. Publicly owned corporations primarily care about the bottom line but the devs themselves are more passionate about realizing their ideas.

If something about a platform is an obstacle to a dev's goals then it's no surprise to see them get vocal about it.

Sure, they'll get vocal. And if I'm their publisher, I'm going to tell them to gripe and moan as often as they want as long as they hit my release date target. The loudest voice of all is often the writing of a check. If consumers write theirs, publishers will, too.
 
Yeah, because Sony got all the money they earned with their TV section and others to support another fail like the Vita. Oh, wait. They don't.

You're suggesting that Sony won't try to compete visually with the next Xbox? lol?

It will obviously have to be more reasonably priced than launch PS3 was, and since they're not introducing new tech that required new R&D (Blu-Ray, Cell) it'll cost them much, much less to give us a 2013 powerhouse for under $500.

I would guess a $399/$449 price point with visuals that are on par with the 720 and take a hot, wet dump on existing home consoles. It'll be sold at a loss and made up with software/subscriptions, as is par for the course.
 
you guys do know that dice guy hasn't and doesn't know exactly what the cpu is hes going by what other tech guys saying mostly I'm guessing from the metro guys comments.
 

Kade

Member
There's no doubt Sony will go high end. They don't have a choice either, they need the multiplat blockbusters to be in the same ballpark quality as on the next Xbox. With Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest on WiiU, combined with the lower specs that might suit Japanese developers better at this moment, WiiU might be able to attract lots of Japanese support (for which there's still a reasonable market in the West).

The Wii probably prevented a lot of companies from tanking due to the low dev costs which I think is great. It's better that we have a situation like we do with the Wii where there's an option for developers who don't want to create big budget games or aren't capable of doing so. If Wii was on par with the PS3 or 360, the number of developers out of business or switching to less ambitious handheld/mobile stuff would be higher than it already is.
 

Reiko

Banned
Just a point here: developers don't have to take full advantage of the hardware to make a game on the 720/PS4 just because the power is there, you know? PSN/XBLA are examples. They can make a WiiU-grade game as far as visuals go and sell it on the 720/PS4 if they like. If they do that, they'll probably also be able to run that same game at 1080p/60 on the 720/PS4.

They don't have to try to use all the power to make software that will sell.

EA likes money. There will be Frostbite 2.0 on WiiU. Let's not get crazy.

So why no mention of the premier Frostbite 2.0 game, Battlefield 4 for the Wii U in that rumor?

Just 360/PS3/PC and Durango/Orbis.

Of course, we weren't supposed to know that yet
 
That is 2 IPs out of how many, 1 that is much stronger on handheld and the other is a MMO.
I also expect the next DQ game to be on 3DS and not home console .
How many console million sellers do you think are in Japan, and how many do you think where on the PS3, and how many of them do you think will not be ported to Wii U as well?
 

PooBone

Member
I watched that Wii U Quick Look of Epic Mickey 2 on Giantbomb and the first time he sprays the environment the framerate completely disappears. I was blown away how slow it was. Apparently it's not an issue on the 360 version. I'm not buying a Wii U now because there's no software to sell me on it, but these issues with the hardware are not what I was expecting.
 

Bog

Junior Ace
This coming from the guys behind Metro 2033, which gives me MAYBE 30 fps on my fairly new rig, yet looks worse than games that run 60+. They certainly know all about optimization.
 
The Wii probably prevented a lot of companies from tanking due to the low dev costs which I think is great. It's better that we have a situation like we do with the Wii where there's an option for developers who don't want to create big budget games or aren't capable of doing so. If Wii was on par with the PS3 or 360, the number of developers out of business or switching to less ambitious handheld/mobile stuff would be higher than it already is.

Are you serious i really can't tell anymore .
Which companies did the Wii save again other than making Nintendo rich .

How many console million sellers do you think are in Japan, and how many do you think where on the PS3, and how many of them do you think will not be ported to Wii U as well?

The question really depends on how much stronger PS4 \ 720 is compare to Wii U and will it get ports .
Wii U will get port of PS3 games the question is about next gen ones .
 

gryz

Banned
it's crazy how much more random gaf posters know about designing system architectures than engineers at IBM or Nintendo.
 

farnham

Banned
That is 2 IPs out of how many, 1 that is much stronger on handheld and the other is a MMO.
I also expect the next DQ game to be on 3DS and not home console .

Japanese companies have a big problem to tell the truth .

Those two are launch games (well dqx is a beta version)

They are a statement however for things to come, provided the wiiu sells
 

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
Sure, they'll get vocal. And if I'm their publisher, I'm going to tell them to gripe and moan as often as they want as long as they hit my release date target. The loudest voice of all is often the writing of a check. If consumers write theirs, publishers will, too.
That's basically what precipitated the whole IW->Respawn Studios thing.
 

vitacola

Member
You're suggesting that Sony won't try to compete visually with the next Xbox? lol?
You and many others are suggesting that MS will build a hell of a gaming machine?
MS seems to be pretty comfortable with their console positioned as a media center. Personally I don't think that the next XBox will be a high end piece of hardware, more like a soundless mediocre Windows 8 device.

It will obviously have to be more reasonably priced than launch PS3 was, and since they're not introducing new tech that required new R&D (Blu-Ray, Cell) it'll cost them much, much less to give us a 2013 powerhouse for under $500.
Where did you learn that? If they're stupid enough and try to push e.g. their 4K displays, this would be an expensive piece of hardware.
 

farnham

Banned
Just a point here: developers don't have to take full advantage of the hardware to make a game on the 720/PS4 just because the power is there, you know? PSN/XBLA are examples. They can make a WiiU-grade game as far as visuals go and sell it on the 720/PS4 if they like. If they do that, they'll probably also be able to run that same game at 1080p/60 on the 720/PS4.

They don't have to try to use all the power to make software that will sell.

EA likes money. There will be Frostbite 2.0 on WiiU. Let's not get crazy.

Yes but xbox 720 will not sell in japan and ps4 will have a hard time looking at how sony platforms are doing in general nowadays. Especially with a headstart of wiiu in japan with mario, monster hunter and dqx day one

So my question would be.. Why not port those lowfi games over to wiiu as well? There is no immidiate reason not to.
 

TUROK

Member
it's crazy how much more random gaf posters know about designing system architectures than engineers at IBM or Nintendo.
It's good to see that even with all the hyperbolic jokes, there are still some users in this thread capable of being legitimately buttmad.
 

farnham

Banned
I see it at as too little, too late for some third party developers to care. I mean look how long it took for the PS3 growing pains to end. We're at the tail end of this generation and devs are already working on Sony and MS next gen machines.

Wii U would have had a better shot if it released with the Xbox 360 instead of the original Wii. The playing field would have been even in regards to dev support. IMO

The thing would have cost 1000 dollars at launch if at was the case.. Just sayin
 
Yes but xbox 720 will not sell in japan and ps4 will have a hard time looking at how sony platforms are doing in general nowadays. Especially with a headstart of wiiu in japan with mario, monster hunter and dqx day one

So my question would be.. Why not port those lowfi games over to wiiu as well? There is no immidiate reason not to.

fair enough.

I suppose the question would be: did they port those lowfi games from 360/PS3 over to Wii? If not, why not? Because nextGen being a mirror image of lastGen seems fairly likely now.

You and many others are suggesting that MS will build a hell of a gaming machine?
MS seems to be pretty comfortable with their console positioned as a media center. Personally I don't think that the next XBox will be a high end piece of hardware, more like a soundless mediocre Windows 8 device.


Where did you learn that? If they're stupid enough and try to push e.g. their 4K displays, this would be an expensive piece of hardware.

I just don't see a scenario where Sony charges $500-$600 again. I'm pretty sure they learned that lesson. Not in this economy.

As for MS and Sony building anything less than "a hell of a gaming machine"...if you can't agree that the tech demos and games we've already seen in the works for "nextGen platforms" don't suggest there's extremely nice hardware under the hood of said platforms and that the clear expectation is that those games will run on the 720/PS4, we have nothing left to discuss.
 

Pyrokai

Member
Can I ask a quick couple questions? It's all I really care about:

Can the Wii U play everything that the PS3/360 can play at least as well or better (provided the devs don't have technical issues like the launch software has been showing)? I don't understand the whole "43% slower than PS3" RAM thing, so I just want this simple answer.

Other question: Can the slow OS be fixed with an update?
 
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