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TLOU (Before & After E3 demo) MAJOR differences!

S

Striek

Member
BigTnaples said:
Lol at some trolls in this thread who have quite obviously not played the game,
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I don't think they're trolls they're just judging the evidence they have, even though if you play the game you know differently. The video certainly makes the AI look bad, but that never happened to me.

SneakyStephan said:
It's a good thing they toned down the gratuitous violence though, it was pointless and gross.
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If you play the game you certainly know the violence isn't toned down at all. Like I said that exact animation is still in the game, along with much (much) more graphic stuff.
 
B

Betta Lines

Member
Metalmurphy said:
But seriously, play the game before making judgment. Yes there will be awkward moments with AI, there's those in like every game, but this game has some of the best AI in any video game around.
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It does, but that doesn't hide the fact that the E3 demo was scripted to be more seamless than the real AI.
 
BigTnaples

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Pazuzu9 said:
It does, but that doesn't hide the fact that the E3 demo was scripted to be more seamless than the real AI.
Click to expand...


The E3 demo was played through repeatedly by the press. Each time it happened differently.

Just like when I watch my non PS3 owning friend plays TLoU as my place, the AI reacts completely differently to how he plays.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
C

Croyles

Member
For me personally, it seems that the AI is better than in most games. The comparison is with the E3 video, which is something I personally have never seen before in a game.

Maybe it doesn't quite reach that level but the AI is still quite dynamic.
I think the problem may be that because nearly everything else in the game is way ahead of other games, the AI is the thing that stands out as not on the same level, even if its actually quite good.

I too have had some weird AI shit going on in this game, I have also had some truly great moments.
 
BigTnaples

BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Pazuzu9 said:
I've played it. It's my favourite game.
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Fair enough. Then what about the E3 demo is so unbelievable? Aside from them searching drawers, everything else is still in in some form. Pretty good for the first gameplay shown to still hold true after launch.


I see what you are saying/implying about scripting everything's cool the AI can do into one sequence, Oblivion did this to show off Radiant AI. The backlash was the same, even though the vast Majority of things from the video made it into the game, because they don't all happen in a 10 minute condensed period, people view the AI as dumbed down. ( to clarify, RAI was toned down, just not as drastically as some thought.)
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
People might want more realistic AI on paper but they almost certainly don't want it in practice. An AI too good on the higher levels can easily break a game and make it damn near impossible.
 
C

Croyles

Member
BigTnaples said:
Fair enough. Then what about the E3 demo is so unbelievable? Aside from them searching drawers, everything else is still in in some form. Pretty good for the first gameplay shown to still hold true after launch.


I see what you are saying/implying about scripting everything's cool the AI can do into one sequence, Oblivion did this to show off Radiant AI. The backlash was the same, even though the vast Majority of things from the video made it into the game, because they don't all happen in a 10 minute condensed period, people view the AI as dumbed down. ( to clarify, RAI was toned down, just not as drastically as some thought.)
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This is exactly it. Thank you!
 
S

shinobi602

Member
The AI was pretty brilliant in my first playthrough of the game and that wasn't even on Survivor.

Can't wait to try survivor out next.
 
R

robertsan21

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Here's a quick video on survivor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJ0ZBGkEUU&hd=1 (warning, contains graphic scenes)

I'll try to do some more later.



But seriously, play the game before making judgment. Yes there will be awkward moments with AI, there's those in like every game, but this game has some of the best AI in any video game around.
Click to expand...

I agree, but a question, Never tried Survivor, but it does seem like the Enemies are not harder to kill or deal more damage when you get hit by them compared to normal. Are the AI only more turned on with survivor?

I hate when HARD mode is dealing more damage and enemies are harder to kill, it should just be the AI is more turned on which will make the game harder.
 
E

edgardavids

Member
The video is like the guy tried to play the same section 100 times and then filmed it when it was at its worst. My playthrough on hard never looked anywhere near this bad from an AI perspective.
 
Z

Zen

Banned
Vashetti said:
Very disappointed that NO enemy grabbed me in the game calling me a "MOTHERFUCKER!" like in the E3 demo.

It's become a bit of an in-joke for me and my boyfriend now. When we get a satisfying kill we comically grunt "motherfucker!"
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That has happened to me countless times on normal. And I've had Ellie jump on a dudes back un prompted or stab a guy in the back that was fighting me. Never got the whole board hit to the ground like in the demo unfortunately.
 
J

jett

D-Member
robertsan21 said:
I agree, but a question, Never tried Survivor, but it does seem like the Enemies are not harder to kill or deal more damage when you get hit by them compared to normal. Are the AI only more turned on with survivor?

I hate when HARD mode is dealing more damage and enemies are harder to kill, it should just be the AI is more turned on which will make the game harder.
Click to expand...

The major difference I encounter in Survivor mode is that there's almost nothing to scavenge in the environment. I think the AI may be more aware when you make noises but that's about it, their field/range of vision seems the same to me and they take the same amount of time to go into "alert mode" when they spot you. I haven't really noticed any major differences there. They do deal more damage though, but it's not too bad, it's not like Crushing difficulty in the Uncharted games. :p
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
robertsan21 said:
I agree, but a question, Never tried Survivor, but it does seem like the Enemies are not harder to kill or deal more damage when you get hit by them compared to normal. Are the AI only more turned on with survivor?

I hate when HARD mode is dealing more damage and enemies are harder to kill, it should just be the AI is more turned on which will make the game harder.
Click to expand...

Yes the damage you need to do is pretty much the same. They're just more aggressive, there's less resources around, and the damage you TAKE is bigger.
 
D

Dragon

Banned
robertsan21 said:
I agree, but a question, Never tried Survivor, but it does seem like the Enemies are not harder to kill or deal more damage when you get hit by them compared to normal. Are the AI only more turned on with survivor?

I hate when HARD mode is dealing more damage and enemies are harder to kill, it should just be the AI is more turned on which will make the game harder.
Click to expand...

Survivor does not allow you to use listen mode, which would hinder anyone used to it (and now that I play the Multiplayer hinders me too!).
 
C

Coolbgdog12

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Here's a quick video on survivor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJ0ZBGkEUU&hd=1 (warning, contains graphic scenes)

I'll try to do some more later.



But seriously, play the game before making judgment. Yes there will be awkward moments with AI, there's those in like every game, but this game has some of the best AI in any video game around.
Click to expand...

Why are people even still debating the AI in this thread?? Case closed.

People just want to selectively post videos of the game at it's worst moment and make huge statements like "THE AI IS FAKE!!".

Anyone with a brain would've known that the game plays out differently depending on the player and most things are context sensitive.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Right, no listening mode is probably the biggest change although I never used it much. The problem is that the human enemies don't really make much or any noise when they walk around so you really can't rely on sound, sadly. Lots of looking around corners in survivor. :p Even with the clickers I can't really accurately pinpoint where they are with sound either.
 
M

Mononoke

Banned
The real discussion here should be I. This is why PC is superior to current consoles (and why games become limited from their initial build due console limitations) and II. Why we should be excited for the next generation consoles.

I don't blame ND for having to scale things back. You do the best you can with the limitations put in front of you.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Coolbgdog12 said:
Why are people even still debating the AI in this thread?? Case closed.
Click to expand...
Because it's good to have such a discussion, I think.

Coolbgdog12 said:
People just want to selectively post videos of the game at it's worst moment and make huge statements like "THE AI IS FAKE!!".
Click to expand...
That's the real issue. It's a video with cherry picked gameplay to make an argument that can be dispelled within an hour by someone with a camera and some upload bandwidth.

There are still things from the E3 demo that are missing, but because the OP poisoned the well with his video this thread can not be salvaged.

Based on the two E3 playthroughs they are probably not missing because Naughty Dog is too inept, it's just that you have to make cuts to fit within 480 MB of memory.
 
B

Betta Lines

Member
Coolbgdog12 said:
Why are people even still debating the AI in this thread?? Case closed.
Click to expand...
I'm not debating that the AI is bad - the video in the OP is a very poor representation of what the AI is like.

Metalmurphy's footage is a much better representation.

However, I'm saying that the footage shown at E3 was not the real AI, and was enhanced through scripting. Many of the individual elements are still in the final game, but they don't flow together like the E3 demo.
 
A

amstradcpc

Member
Catatonic said:
The real discussion here should be I. This is why PC is superior to current consoles (and why games become limited from their initial build due console limitations) and II. Why we should be excited for the next generation consoles.

I don't blame ND for having to scale things back. You do the best you can with the limitations put in front of you.
Click to expand...

Wow!. PC has a lot of great AI examples due to super duper Intel cpus eh?. Yeah...good try.
 
D

daniels

Member
Catatonic said:
The real discussion here should be I. This is why PC is superior to current consoles (and why games become limited from their initial build due console limitations) and II. Why we should be excited for the next generation consoles.

I don't blame ND for having to scale things back. You do the best you can with the limitations put in front of you.
Click to expand...

uhh maybe you should watch Metalmurphys video ...
and btw there is nothing on pc like this ;)
 
U

ultron87

Member
Pazuzu9 said:
However, I'm saying that the footage shown at E3 was not the real AI, and was enhanced through scripting. Many of the individual elements are still in the final game, but they don't flow together like the E3 demo.
Click to expand...

Yup, I've definitely seen the AI do pretty much all of the things you see in the E3 demo (except for the *tries to grab your gun* guy), but I've never seen it work together so seamlessly and realistically. Theoretically it could happen like that, but probably super rarely.

(The only thing that ever really bothers me about the AI is when it spawns extra dudes after you get spotted.)

Which is probably fine since you kind of expect an E3 demo to be the idealized/perfect version of the game. I'm not expecting Titanfall or BF4 to ever go as perfectly as those demos did either.

And at least this one wasn't outright fabrication Bioshock Infinite demo with the horse.
 
Z

zma1013

Member
Metalmurphy said:
Here's a quick video on survivor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJ0ZBGkEUU&hd=1 (warning, contains graphic scenes)

I'll try to do some more later.



But seriously, play the game before making judgment. Yes there will be awkward moments with AI, there's those in like every game, but this game has some of the best AI in any video game around.
Click to expand...

Very good video showing off an actual entire play session. I especially liked how it showed the melee guys would actually hide and wait until your were vulnerable before running in a striking as well as the other guys actually running away and hiding when you popped up and aimed your gun at them. I have to ask though, how exactly did you do the knee bash? Anytime I'm hitting a dude with a pipe it just finishes them with the pipe. Do I have to somehow deselect the pipe in the middle of the fight?
 
A

aristotle

Member
SneakyStephan said:
NPCS rummaging through drawers or running away = broken:p

Cmon the AI seems just dumb as shit.

It's a good thing they toned down the gratuitous violence though, it was pointless and gross.
Click to expand...

You apparently have never played the game. The violence is still very much there.

The trolls in this thread are so apparent.
 
F

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
This video is insanely cherry picked.

I've encountered enemies running away in fear, begging for their lives, suppressing and flanking, sneak attacking me, etc. Yes, not as elaborate as the year old, still in development E3 demo, but the stuff is there. And I was playing on Normal.

I really, really hate cherry picked FUD like this.
 
M

Maxxan

Member
The only things they removed seems to be the triggered scene where an enemy hides behind the door, and the struggling when attacking someone who's armed. Otherwise, it's probably just a case of the player knowing exactly where each enemy is located.
 
G

Guevara

Member
Overall I've had a really inconsistance experience with the AI. Sometimes I literally choke out a dude 3 feet from another dude and it's all fine. Sometimes an enemy spots me from upstairs and across a courtyard. I still don't know why sometimes clickers spot me and sometimes they don't. Ellie for some reason loves running in circles like a crazy dog, sometimes she'll just hop from cover to cover, just about bumping into infected. It's a fine game but AI has a long way to go and this game doesn't feel like anything groundbreaking to me.
 
M

Metalmurphy

Member
zma1013 said:
Very good video showing off an actual entire play session. I especially liked how it showed the melee guys would actually hide and wait until your were vulnerable before running in a striking as well as the other guys actually running away and hiding when you popped up and aimed your gun at them. I have to ask though, how exactly did you do the knee bash? Anytime I'm hitting a dude with a pipe it just finishes them with the pipe. Do I have to somehow deselect the pipe in the middle of the fight?
Click to expand...

They just need to fall near a wall after the first hit. It's context sensitive as are most actions.
 
C

Croyles

Member
ultron87 said:
Yup, I've definitely seen the AI do pretty much all of the things you see in the E3 demo (except for the *tries to grab your gun* guy), but I've never seen it work together so seamlessly and realistically. Theoretically it could happen like that, but probably super rarely.

(The only thing that ever really bothers me about the AI is when it spawns extra dudes after you get spotted.)

Which is probably fine since you kind of expect an E3 demo to be the idealized/perfect version of the game. I'm not expecting Titanfall or BF4 to ever go as perfectly as those demos did either.

And at least this one wasn't outright fabrication Bioshock Infinite demo with the horse.
Click to expand...

This. Discussion over! :)
 
A

antitrop

Member
Vashetti said:
Oh god, watching that video is an eye-opener.

Naughty Dog better patch that shit back in. At least give people the option.

That's the kind of enemy AI I was expecting, one of the big reasons I was excited for the game.

Kinda misleading I think.
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As if this was a reasonable suggestion.
 
C

cutmeamango

Banned
ultron87 said:
(The only thing that ever really bothers me about the AI is when it spawns extra dudes after you get spotted.)
Click to expand...

On which difficulty level? Never had that happen with me on hard.
Sections had from 4 to 6 enemies, and the sections with "area waves" were usually 4, then for 4 more. If the area had 4, even with being spotted, it didn't ever increase.
 
5

5amshift

Banned
Since E3? Psh, since PAX East it has been toned down A LOT. I remember coming back and telling my friends The Last of Us was insanely hard, and there were just too many A.I at once. Well making to the same part as the PAX East demo, I literally laughed at how much easier it was.
 
U

ultron87

Member
cutmeamango said:
On which difficulty level? Never had that happen with me on hard.
Sections had from 4 to 6 enemies, and the sections with "area waves" were usually 4, then for 4 more. If the area had 4, even with being spotted, it didn't ever increase.
Click to expand...

Well the area waves are pretty much what I'm talking about. They often comes from areas you've already cleared which is a huge immersion breaker. The second story of the hotel (ie the area immediately after the E3 demo part) had guys coming up the stairs as part of the second wave even though the downstairs was entirely clear.

The only time it really bugs me though is that sometimes Joel will do a "loud kill" after grabbing the last guy in the area even if you've been entirely stealth up till then, and then that can trigger the "you got spotted" wave.
 
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