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The Witness |OT|
- Thread starter Afro
- Start date
More_Badass
Member
A $40 indie puzzler with no combat or multiplayer is currently the Top Seller on Steam. I think that's pretty cool
So between this, SOMA, Divinity, etc., would you guys agree that this is the return of mid-budget games?
So between this, SOMA, Divinity, etc., would you guys agree that this is the return of mid-budget games?
Greatly appreciated compliment. Whoa.
GwyndolinCinder
Member
I'm pretty sure SOMA was only £20~
eot
Banned
Oh, nice
Wouldn't $30 be considered mid-budget, just like $40 is?
More_Badass
Member
I meant, in general. The $30-$40 range, which is stuff like SOMA, Witness, Kerbal, Wasteland, Satellite Reign
TimeEffect
Member
Ha, seems he is pretty happy with adam boyes too. Sony sure knows how to win over these guys.
Im actually curious to see how the tablet sales go.
Im actually curious to see how the tablet sales go.
More_Badass
Member
It's the movement that'll be key to get down because the actual line drawing looked great in the early iPad footage. And yeah, I'm curious how this game would sell on mobile as well
I'm not optimistic here, given the stupidity of that market.
I posted this in the review thread. Want this here, too - Here's a bunch of spoiler-free things to know about The Witness before jumping in, from me, a man that has solved 309 of its panels (and counting):
You will need a paper and pencil. You will.
I played Fez, SpaceChem, and plenty of other games where people claimed to feel compelled to write things down, and I got through them without it. The Witness is different. The later puzzles in a series contain too much data and combine too many concepts for me to hold in my head at once, and it very often had to spill out onto paper, at which point they could be solved (fairly) easily.
If you come across a puzzle and don't understand its rules, move on.
The Witness is a non-linear game, so you can find (and I believe at one point you're deliberately placed in front of) puzzles that you haven't been taught the rules to yet. It'll have strange symbols and shapes on it that have no meaning to you. You will never, ever figure out these puzzles until you understand their rules.
Although they aren't technically locked, they should be treated as a locked door. And the key isn't a physical object - it's knowledge. Puzzles in different areas of the island will teach you each symbol's rules, putting the key in your head. And then you can open the door.
Each puzzle is a language - try to fail tutorial puzzles, to ensure you understand it.
Blow's games, more than anyone else, feel like a conversation between designer and player. He's talking to us, through puzzle panels. Allow me to explain. I recall Blow talking about each panel puzzle essentially having its own "sentence," and eventually one puzzle might have so many sentences that it is multiple paragraphs.
When you see a "bank" of panels all in a row, these are (usually) there to serve as a wordless tutorial - to teach you the "language" of that type of puzzle. 1) "These symbols can't be separated." 2) "They can't be separated, and they have to be in groups of two." 3) "They can't be separated, have to stay in twos, and different colors have to be split up." ...and on and on it builds. In remarkably little time, you can "read" a grid of strange shapes and colors and understand it all.
Most of these banks of tutorial puzzles are very very well done. A couple slightly less so. You may only half-understand something, or may make an assumption that isn't true. So if you aren't 100% sure you understand the rules of a symbol, I suggest going back and trying to break one of the tutorial panels, until you get it.
The Witness will be too hard for some people...
It just will. The puzzles are really hard, and there's no pressure release valve. Other than just walking away for a little while - either to another part of the island, or in the real world. I absolutely adore the game, but if you aren't good at puzzle games, I can say with certainty that you will not have a good time here.
Are all the puzzles "fair," adhering to a standard internal logic? Yes. There's no cat hair moustaches on this island. But that doesn't guarantee that everyone will be able to solve every puzzle, if they just stick with it long enough. Just because they're fair doesn't mean everyone can find the solutions. Some will be too hard. This is not a game for everyone. That being said...
...But you should never give up, and never consult a guide.
Don't look at a guide. Just don't. For a number of reasons.
First, you don't need to clear all of the island's sections to reach the ending. So even if you're hopelessly, hopelessly lost, there's still a lot of hope that you'll be able to progress and uncover The Big Mystery.
Second, the puzzles are the game. Looking up a puzzle solution after it's stumped you for a little bit is like having someone else beat a level in Halo you're stuck on. At that point what's the point?
Third, although what I said above stands (this game WILL be too hard for some), I still solved many, many puzzles after stepping away from them. "Sleeping on" puzzles and problems isn't just an expression - it's real science. Your subconscious mind is working on these problems even when you aren't playing. And the game can be mentally draining - I often lacked the patience to solve some of the trickier puzzles, but coming back to them later with more stamina made it easy.
(This is a very very slight spoiler for how some of the puzzles work... only blacking it out out of respect for people going in totally blind)
Collect them all?
The island has a couple different kinds of collectibles, one of which is so hidden and clever that people might not even get one until they've played for a long time.
Your progress at collecting this second kind is tracked in a specific way on the island, and there's so many more of them than it seems possible. I've criss-crossed the island many times and collected a lot, and the game tells me I've only found about 1/4th of them.
I would be genuinely shocked if any critic or anyone else with early access has found them all, and I'm guessing (total speculation on my part) that something cool happens when you find them all. Or maybe it'll just be a pleasant little bonus like Braid's stars. Regardless, it's a neat extra thing to noodle and discuss with fans after the meat of the game is complete.
You will need a paper and pencil. You will.
I played Fez, SpaceChem, and plenty of other games where people claimed to feel compelled to write things down, and I got through them without it. The Witness is different. The later puzzles in a series contain too much data and combine too many concepts for me to hold in my head at once, and it very often had to spill out onto paper, at which point they could be solved (fairly) easily.
If you come across a puzzle and don't understand its rules, move on.
The Witness is a non-linear game, so you can find (and I believe at one point you're deliberately placed in front of) puzzles that you haven't been taught the rules to yet. It'll have strange symbols and shapes on it that have no meaning to you. You will never, ever figure out these puzzles until you understand their rules.
Although they aren't technically locked, they should be treated as a locked door. And the key isn't a physical object - it's knowledge. Puzzles in different areas of the island will teach you each symbol's rules, putting the key in your head. And then you can open the door.
Each puzzle is a language - try to fail tutorial puzzles, to ensure you understand it.
Blow's games, more than anyone else, feel like a conversation between designer and player. He's talking to us, through puzzle panels. Allow me to explain. I recall Blow talking about each panel puzzle essentially having its own "sentence," and eventually one puzzle might have so many sentences that it is multiple paragraphs.
When you see a "bank" of panels all in a row, these are (usually) there to serve as a wordless tutorial - to teach you the "language" of that type of puzzle. 1) "These symbols can't be separated." 2) "They can't be separated, and they have to be in groups of two." 3) "They can't be separated, have to stay in twos, and different colors have to be split up." ...and on and on it builds. In remarkably little time, you can "read" a grid of strange shapes and colors and understand it all.
Most of these banks of tutorial puzzles are very very well done. A couple slightly less so. You may only half-understand something, or may make an assumption that isn't true. So if you aren't 100% sure you understand the rules of a symbol, I suggest going back and trying to break one of the tutorial panels, until you get it.
The Witness will be too hard for some people...
It just will. The puzzles are really hard, and there's no pressure release valve. Other than just walking away for a little while - either to another part of the island, or in the real world. I absolutely adore the game, but if you aren't good at puzzle games, I can say with certainty that you will not have a good time here.
Are all the puzzles "fair," adhering to a standard internal logic? Yes. There's no cat hair moustaches on this island. But that doesn't guarantee that everyone will be able to solve every puzzle, if they just stick with it long enough. Just because they're fair doesn't mean everyone can find the solutions. Some will be too hard. This is not a game for everyone. That being said...
...But you should never give up, and never consult a guide.
Don't look at a guide. Just don't. For a number of reasons.
First, you don't need to clear all of the island's sections to reach the ending. So even if you're hopelessly, hopelessly lost, there's still a lot of hope that you'll be able to progress and uncover The Big Mystery.
Second, the puzzles are the game. Looking up a puzzle solution after it's stumped you for a little bit is like having someone else beat a level in Halo you're stuck on. At that point what's the point?
Third, although what I said above stands (this game WILL be too hard for some), I still solved many, many puzzles after stepping away from them. "Sleeping on" puzzles and problems isn't just an expression - it's real science. Your subconscious mind is working on these problems even when you aren't playing. And the game can be mentally draining - I often lacked the patience to solve some of the trickier puzzles, but coming back to them later with more stamina made it easy.
(This is a very very slight spoiler for how some of the puzzles work... only blacking it out out of respect for people going in totally blind)
Puzzles can have more than one solution, but only one correct solution
Some panels can be solved multiple ways, and the way you solve it can have an impact on the world. Exiting to the right or left might open up a path to the right or left, as one simple example. So a panel might accept your solution, but you didn't actually solve it in the way you needed to, to accomplish the goal you're working towards. Although (like everything else) this is never explained, it's not as if solving a puzzle one way is changing something halfway across the island - it's not a "gotcha" thing. It all happens right in front of you.
Collect them all?
The island has a couple different kinds of collectibles, one of which is so hidden and clever that people might not even get one until they've played for a long time.
Your progress at collecting this second kind is tracked in a specific way on the island, and there's so many more of them than it seems possible. I've criss-crossed the island many times and collected a lot, and the game tells me I've only found about 1/4th of them.
I would be genuinely shocked if any critic or anyone else with early access has found them all, and I'm guessing (total speculation on my part) that something cool happens when you find them all. Or maybe it'll just be a pleasant little bonus like Braid's stars. Regardless, it's a neat extra thing to noodle and discuss with fans after the meat of the game is complete.
More_Badass
Member
Considering the success of The Room series and puzzlers in general, there's definitely an audience for The Witness on mobile
SomedayTheFire
Member
Jesus calm with the pointed shots. No need.
If I were JB, I'd be having a cold beverage right about now. But he needs to have a quiet word with Boyes/Sony over the 8 week advanced notice pre-order twaddle.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
Wow. Cutting it close.
opticalmace
Member
Do we have any idea what the Canadian PSN price is going to be?
Kudos Afro, great OT!
I adored Braid for everything it achieved to be. And this looks stunning + i LOVE puzzle games. Actually contemplating to either get a console/PC that can run this, or thinking about talking one of my friends into it (very unlikely). OH GOD I NEED TO PLAY THIS.
And sorry to be the party pooper, but isn't the polaroid backwards? Meaning the it's the backside of the image? I know GAF is usually very picky about media-specificity when it comes to videogames, so why not with photography, too?
I adored Braid for everything it achieved to be. And this looks stunning + i LOVE puzzle games. Actually contemplating to either get a console/PC that can run this, or thinking about talking one of my friends into it (very unlikely). OH GOD I NEED TO PLAY THIS.
And sorry to be the party pooper, but isn't the polaroid backwards? Meaning the it's the backside of the image? I know GAF is usually very picky about media-specificity when it comes to videogames, so why not with photography, too?
The fact that £30/$40 is now considered 'mid-budget' concerns me. Wasn't that long ago that £30 would the price of any big brand-new game on PC, whether on Steam or in-store.
One of the reasons for going into PC gaming used to be the cheap prices on software. Now it's the same prices as the console games, without any chance of them lowering in a second-hand market.
Brainfreeze
Member
I first played Braid over this past Christmas break, and it ended up sucking me in for a couple days straight until I beat it. I only had one or two small complaints, but overall I loved everything about it. It's probably already one of my favorite games ever
I'm so excited for this game, and I'm glad that it was a relatively short wait for me considering that I just played Braid and got super interested in this game.
I don't currently have the time or money to dedicate to this, but hopefully by spring break I'll be able to jump in without spoilers and let this game consume my time like Braid did (but way longer).
Probably won't be around to discuss it on Gaf since I have to wait to play it, but I can't wait to play and I hope everyone here enjoys the experience!
and I haven't even gone back to collect the stars yet.
I'm so excited for this game, and I'm glad that it was a relatively short wait for me considering that I just played Braid and got super interested in this game.
I don't currently have the time or money to dedicate to this, but hopefully by spring break I'll be able to jump in without spoilers and let this game consume my time like Braid did (but way longer).
Probably won't be around to discuss it on Gaf since I have to wait to play it, but I can't wait to play and I hope everyone here enjoys the experience!
Diprosalic
Banned
i wonder if this game is beatable for colorblind folks like me.
do we have any statements for that?
do we have any statements for that?
It's C$43.99 on Steam, probably the same price on PSN.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
...what?
Also, have you heard about a little thing called "inflation"? That, coupled with increasingly high expectations of better graphics, means games can't stay the same price.
SplitYourInfinities
Member
To put things in perspective, here is the Braid OT, almost 8 years ago. Jesus, the time flies. I was playing the vanilla Persona 4 at the time. I put it aside for a couple of days to play in my 360 that little game that everyone was talking about and it totally Blow my mind. Braid was the first major indie release in console and it helped a lot of people to realize that there was life after AAA gaming. I also remember people getting mad when the price was announced: $15 instead of the regular price of $10. It was also the time when the indie games were disregarded in list wars and such because there were not big "enough". How times change, eh?
Brainfreeze
Member
Oh shit, I didn't know this game had color-based puzzles, I've been trying to go in blind.
I have mild color blindness, but it can really fuck with certain games. I really hope that doesn't get in the way for me here.
Agreed. It's like poetry, so that they rhyme. Every puzzle kind of rhymes with the last one. The title too.
In all seriousness, though, I agree!
Diprosalic
Banned
i just watched a video and it did have some shapes with color, the ones i saw i could probably manage but not much more than that.
HubbaBubba
Member
Is sound used for puzzles at all or will I be able to play with other music playing over top?
OceanicAir
Member
Played The Swapper over the weekend and played some Antichamber today. All warmed up puzzle wise I hope! It should be an awesome year for puzzle games with this game and Obduction later on this year hopefully (maybe the Myst Me? could be used there instead!)
I was sold on this game and now I think you just unsold me. I'm so torn right now
I read
that it is by design that there is no music or ambient noises and that is by design. I am expecting some audio puzzles.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I'm incredibly excited for this
Manny Calavera
Member
Nice OT! Can't wait to play this tomorrow and especially after all those great reviews.
Aarglefarg
Member
I was going by Metacritic's countdown to release. It was wrong, counted to 0 and is now misbehaving.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/the-witness
"-1 days -1 hrs -45 mins -1 secs until game release" and counting down (more negative)
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/the-witness
"-1 days -1 hrs -45 mins -1 secs until game release" and counting down (more negative)
I can't remember feeling this hyped for a game for a long time...last time I was this hyped was SM3DW...The Witness was on my radar before but after seeing the reviews and the GBQL today I got super hyped.
It's like Jonathan Blow is saying "here, sinxtanx, I made this game specifically according to your tastes and opinions on game design"
It's like Jonathan Blow is saying "here, sinxtanx, I made this game specifically according to your tastes and opinions on game design"
CarbonFire
Member
Excellent OT, Can't wait to get stumped tonight on the PS4 version.
Chezzymann
Member
This sentence is making me not want to get the game. I suck at puzzle games, struggled with portal 2, and probably will struggle with this. If its simply too hard for my mind to comprehend, then i feel like i will just have a bad time and could spend my money elsewhere. But there's also the chance i might get it and have a great time. So im conflicted.
Says 8 hours and change for me.
Diprosalic
Banned
fellow colorblind peeps, looks like Mr. Blow had us in his thoughts:
https://twitter.com/witnessgame/status/76420579883884544
tweet from 2011, hope he stuck to it.
https://twitter.com/witnessgame/status/76420579883884544
tweet from 2011, hope he stuck to it.
waitwhat42
Member
Perfect OT title.
Can't wait to dig into this game. I wasn't a big fan of Braid but this world looks beautiful and I'm dying to find out about the twist mention in all the glowing reviews.
Can't wait to dig into this game. I wasn't a big fan of Braid but this world looks beautiful and I'm dying to find out about the twist mention in all the glowing reviews.
Aarglefarg
Member
It's #2 on my list. Feels good to have such a special game so early in the year.