Support NeoGAF

Sàmban · Dec 14, 2017

Ever since GAF imploded, I've been lurking around, just hoping that maybe things might get back to normal somehow...idk. Anyway, I haven't been here for a while because things just got stupid with people posting NSFW material and racist 4-chan garbage. It seems like things may have started getting better so I thought I'd make a thread.

I came across this article on HuffPost basically outlining The Daily Stormer's tactics when it comes to spreading neo-nazi bullshit. It really is quite the read.

It feels somewhat try-hard/pretentious, but it does show that these assholes are organized well enough to be taken much more seriously. I thought it would be worth discussing, especially in light of some of the over-the-top racist and/or batshit ignorant comments we've seen lately.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...e19e4b0ce3b344492f2?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

Some excerpts:

It seems like it is mainly about the site content itself, but I feel like most neo-nazis/gaters use the same playbook. I think the "lulz" part is what's really on point. Many times, we dismiss these people as hopeless trolls to be ignored when that's exactly what they want. They hide behind shields like "trolling" or "freeduhms of speech/echo chambers/snowflakes herp derp" so they can increase their reach. Milo is probably the epitome of this philosophy, with his provocateur/anti safe-space bit which gives him juuust enough "credibility" to make his actions ambiguously hateful. And obviously on GAF there have been a few posters that have done the same thing as well: arguing absurd points, saying shockingly racist things and being intellectually dishonest about it.

Someone I was talking to about this article pointed out that it was probably released as an attempt to further muddy the waters. As in, the only reason they'd release their "secret tactics" is to further inflate their infamy. It's probably true, but I think it is still worth being informed about.

Anyway, I searched and didn't see it posted.

JordanN · Dec 14, 2017

The only alt-right people are the ones that openly declare themselves one. I.e, they walk around with Pepe flags or oppose mix race marriages with non-whites. Otherwise, you're just dealing with contrarians who can be on any level of the political spectrum.

Bill Maher once made a great point how liberals can be more concerned with hysteria and accusing everyone of being secret nazis when it's more complicated than that.

For example.

"freeduhms of speech/echo chambers/snowflakes herp derp" so they can increase their reach.

This has nothing to do with alt-right. Unless you generally believe Hitler had a time machine and wrote the constitution.

Phoenix RISING · Dec 14, 2017

Yes, and they came out of the woodwork and started doing it here when everyone vacated.

Mohonky · Dec 14, 2017

The whole idea of a playbook; a how to on the art of deception and spreading hate kind of makes me laugh. The whole concept seems so ridiculous.

Turning hating into an art form

KiLLaDeZo · Dec 14, 2017

Yeah there seems to be quite a few posting here these days....

Dunki · Dec 14, 2017

This is not a alt right thing. Because people off all ideologies use these tactics all the time. Everyone who wants to dehumanize the other party or like mayn thinking also the enemy.. That is how you get people. And that people use the tactics of Hitler is not really surprising here. No matter how terrible can crazy he was. The one thing he really could do well was manipulating people.

Also lol at the pepelflags comment. These flags only exist because some media outlets went against this stupid meme. Again the more you try to symbolize it as something bad the more they will use these symbols to alo make fun of these outlets. These artciles are the whole reason why something stupid like Kekistan exist.

Rocket Number 22 · Dec 14, 2017

I mean its the same on each side...

Anyone who doesn't agree with my leftist ideas is - alt-right / a fucking nazi / racist

Anyone who doesn't agree with my right wing ideas is - a cuck / ultra liberal / commie

That kind of attitude gets people no where but where the world is now, us and them and anyone trying to be neutral is automatically a secret them!

F0rneus · Dec 14, 2017

Not liking where the moderation is taking this site. Lots of fuckers right out of this playbook in the open, and nothing being done. It's one thing to be a conservative Gaffer. Lots of them around now. Guess they though they'd get banned or something, but most conservative posts I've seen have been very thoughful and mild. That's fine. I'm talking these fuckers.

I know the place is dead as a doornail, so there a lot more leniency to preserve some form of userbase, but at least embrace the fuckery full on, if this is what GAF will be from here on out.

Dunki · Dec 14, 2017

Reading this article in full is much more interesting. What the OP did post was just some general playbooks and mindset of people fighting others over the internet.

The article goes much more into detail like the payment of 14,88$ as an example. And what kind of content they want, or they operate etc. OP f you tried to make a point it was a pretty bad one for the article. You should have quoted something different from the article.

LookAtMeGo · Dec 14, 2017

Fuckin nvm

DGrayson · Dec 14, 2017

F0rneus said:
Not liking where the moderation is taking this site. Lots of fuckers right out of this playbook in the open, and nothing being done. It's one thing to be a conservative Gaffer. Lots of them around now. Guess they though they'd get banned or something, but most conservative posts I've seen have been very thoughful and mild. That's fine. I'm talking these fuckers.

I know the place is dead as a doornail, so there a lot more leniency to preserve some form of userbase, but at least embrace the fuckery full on, if this is what GAF will be from here on out.

Just note that there was a gap in moderation but mods are back now and hopefully assisting the conversation to go in a constructive manner.

We are watching these sorts of threads to ensure they dont devolve into personal attacks or content which isnt appropriate.

Joyful · Dec 14, 2017

the people who troll here are not very good at hiding it, dont need a guide

Stormblessed · Dec 14, 2017

Rocket Number 22 said:
I mean its the same on each side...

Anyone who doesn't agree with my leftist ideas is - alt-right / a fucking nazi / racist

Anyone who doesn't agree with my right wing ideas is - a cuck / ultra liberal / commie

That kind of attitude gets people no where but where the world is now, us and them and anyone trying to be neutral is automatically a secret them!

American politics is so intensely polarised that each side essentially sees the other as some kind of supervillain. There's a good video describing how this comes about, which also explains the conduct of some of our late comrades.

O.v.e.rlord · Dec 14, 2017

Rocket Number 22 said:
I mean its the same on each side...

Anyone who doesn't agree with my leftist ideas is - alt-right / a fucking nazi / racist

Anyone who doesn't agree with my right wing ideas is - a cuck / ultra liberal / commie

That kind of attitude gets people no where but where the world is now, us and them and anyone trying to be neutral is automatically a secret them!

Ding! THIS! Close the fucking thread cause its this!

All honestly I was trying to come up a response for this thread along the lines of why do you care so much but I might have been labeled as one of them. So I just left it alone.

i_am_ben · Dec 14, 2017

M1nion said:
Ding! THIS! Close the fucking thread cause it's this!

All honestly I was trying to come up a response for this thread along the lines of ”why do you care so much" but I might have been labeled as ”one of them". So I just left it alone.

I think some of you are trying to reframe and dismiss this 'style guide' as just a set of tactics to smear one's opponents.

Unfortunately, in this case, the 'opponents' happen to be gays, black people, women and jewish people. Moreover, what they're actually trying to do is to fan racism, violence and even genocide.

Frankly, its horrifying.

Dunki · Dec 14, 2017

i_am_ben said:
I think some of you are trying to reframe and dismiss this 'style guide' as just a set of tactics to smear one's opponents.

Unfortunately, in this case, the 'opponents' happen to be gays, black people, women and jewish people. Moreover, what they're actually trying to do is to fan racism, violence and even genocide.

Frankly, its horrifying.

Why does it matter who your opponents are? Fact is these tactics are being used on every side of the political spectrum.. And you can not argue how it is good on one side while the other does the same and gets "lynched" for it. Here is some advice I personally follow: Either criticize both sides for the usage or do not. It is your decision in the end. I actually went with a mindset to criticize everyone no matter "on which side of history" (I really really hate this phrase) they are standing.

Besides the Left has become highly anti-semitic the last few years. So this alone is a pretty weak argument here.

Example for the same tactics? ? Teen Vogue Journalist:

NOW Imagine this one with instead of white and boy with black and girl. Same shit.

BANGS · Dec 14, 2017

i_am_ben said:
I think some of you are trying to reframe and dismiss this 'style guide' as just a set of tactics to smear one's opponents.

Unfortunately, in this case, the 'opponents' happen to be gays, black people, women and jewish people. Moreover, what they're actually trying to do is to fan racism, violence and even genocide.

Frankly, its horrifying.

BLM does the same type of shit. It's not horrifying when you realize it's just a small handful of morons that will never amount to anything. They are literally just trolls, best way to stop them is to ignore them. We've known this for decades and nobody listens until it's too late...

i_am_ben · Dec 14, 2017

Dunki said:
Why does it matter who your opponents are? Fact is these tactics are being used on every side of the political spectrum.. And you can not argue how it is good on one side while the other does the same and gets "lynched" for it. Here is some advice I personally follow: Either criticize both sides for the usage or do not. It is your decision in the end. I actually went with a mindset to criticize everyone no matter "on which side of history" (I really really hate this phrase) they are standing.

Besides the Left has become highly anti-semitic the last few years. So this alone is a pretty weak argument here.

Example for the same tactics? ? Teen Vogue Journalist:

NOW Imagine this one with instead of white and boy with black and girl. Same shit.

You don't even see the irony of that statement do you?

Anyway, you guys are crazy. I'm peacing out.

RefigeKru · Dec 14, 2017

Dunki said:
Why does it matter who your opponents are? Fact is these tactics are being used on every side of the political spectrum.. And you can not argue how it is good on one side while the other does the same and gets "lynched" for it. Here is some advice I personally follow: Either criticize both sides for the usage or do not. It is your decision in the end. I actually went with a mindset to criticize everyone no matter "on which side of history" (I really really hate this phrase) they are standing.

Besides the Left has become highly anti-semitic the last few years. So this alone is a pretty weak argument here.

Example for the same tactics? ? Teen Vogue Journalist:

NOW Imagine this one with instead of white and boy with black and girl. Same shit.

Dunki, last time you posted that exact image it was to convince people to get along with Neo Nazis.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253075247&postcount=114

But you also said

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253075463&postcount=126

You need to understand why to do something about it. Without understanding the reason you will never solve it. Yes you also could kill everyone or put them into camps but that is hoepfully not the way to go.

And I NEVER said you have to be friends with anyone. There is more besides friend and enemy., us vs them, for or against. And you do not need to explain why it is wrong by trying to lecture people you will only cause more distrust and them defending their views even more.

You need to talk to people on the same level not on a higher position. Again trying to understand other peoples views does not mean to agree with them.

I never said anything about ideas.... I said about their reasoning for their views.

There are no good reasons. Why do they have to be good? They are still reasons that should be explored. AGain you do not have to agree on anything racis people say but to understand or mabye know is the better word for it why they think like this will help solve problems of racism.

And now, in the presence of a literal nazi playbook you're now reposting that so we can talk about Teen Vogue, instead of the Alt Right's tactics.

Phoenix RISING · Dec 14, 2017

RefigeKru said:
Dunki, last time you posted that exact image it was to convince people to get along with Neo Nazis.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253075247&postcount=114

But you also said

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253075463&postcount=126

And now, in the presence of a literal nazi playbook you're now reposting that so we can talk about Teen Vogue, instead of the Alt Right's tactics.

It's like as if they have a playbook for this kind of misdirection, right?

RefigeKru · Dec 14, 2017

Phoenix RISING said:
It's like as if they have a playbook for this kind of misdirection, right?

Of course not, this is all so that Alt Right guys don't get lynched, thrown into concentration camps, or shunned out of society.

Dunki · Dec 14, 2017

RefigeKru said:
Dunki, last time you posted that exact image it was to convince people to get along with Neo Nazis.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253075247&postcount=114

But you also said

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=253075463&postcount=126

And now, in the presence of a literal nazi playbook you're now reposting that so we can talk about Teen Vogue, instead of the Alt Right's tactics.

First of all I never posted this to get along with Nazis. But I said to solve a Problem you have to understand this problem. I never said be friendly I just argued that talking is a much better way to solve a problem than fighting each other. And I used this to show that so called both sides use the same tactics and I posted this because that this is not a Alt-Right thing but a Internet Thing. No matter on which side you are standing. I also argued how it is pretty sad that some people actually justify the same tactics and schemes because their opponents are different. And Lastly: I would argue that the Article is way more interesting for a look behind the curtain of a Nazi Site. Generalizations are lazy and boring in my opinion. And they do not follow some Alt-Right guide they created their own company guide based on the same tactics many people use on the internet.

But seriously whatever floats your boat. If you can totally understand the tweet I posted but would be totally upset if it were black babies instead of white ones. I can not help you except for saying. You should consider yourself racist. There is no excuse for this. Just like there is no excuse if it were the other way around.

BANGS · Dec 14, 2017

"If you label me you negate me"

Please be genuine, you're not fooling anyone with an IQ over their shoe size...

krazen · Dec 14, 2017

BANGS said:
BLM does the same type of shit. It's not horrifying when you realize it's just a small handful of morons that will never amount to anything. They are literally just trolls, best way to stop them is to ignore them. We've known this for decades and nobody listens until it's too late...

Hrm. Id say ignoring them (which has been the MO since forever outside of the internet) lead to the real life consequence of a murder and Charlottesville shots of 'Jews Will Not Replace Us' beaming across the world as the current state of affairs here.

There are here, they hate the queer(lol), and they are going nowhere now that its a legit political belief on par with traditional republican/democratic views.

appaws · Dec 14, 2017

Aren't the alt-right's tactics basically Alinskyite...? Seems like it to me.

And why wouldn't they adopt those tactics? They have worked to allow a small group of far-leftist social scolds to wield an oversized influence over society, dominating whole sectors of media and most of academia while the mainstream "conservatives" thought they were winning because they held political offices. Then they looked up and millennia of western civilization was in tatters.

It is a very effective strategy.

JP · Dec 14, 2017

Dehumanisation is almost a constant of "treating people like shit", irrelevant of the context. You reduce people to a single part of whom they actually are and concentrate on that and it becomes really easy to hate people whereas seeing people as a whole means there's more of an opportunity to relate to them, even if we don't agree with them.

It's not as if it's uncommon in communities such as this, in part due to the anonymity. We're not talking to real people, we're talking to avatars, usernames and we have absolutely no idea who the whole person is that we're actually talking to. We may heavily disagree on things but that doesn't mean we wouldn't get on if we met up in real life and didn't know about the mere sketch of who we are in places such as this.

I don't think "hate" has ever been a political view irrelevant of the colour of the tie that the person preaching it is wearing. In some ways we've protected the right to hate certain groups of people simply by washing it and dressing it up in a nice suit.

EDIT:
I also don't think that we should still be using the descriptor or Alt-Right. There's nothing "alternative" about and i don't think we should label it as something different to what it has historically been.

Dude Abides · Dec 14, 2017

appaws said:
Aren't the alt-right's tactics basically Alinskyite...? Seems like it to me.

And why wouldn't they adopt those tactics? They have worked to allow a small group of far-leftist social scolds to wield an oversized influence over society, dominating whole sectors of media and most of academia while the mainstream "conservatives" thought they were winning because they held political offices. Then they looked up and millennia of western civilization was in tatters.

It is a very effective strategy.

Alinsky, far-leftist controlling media and academia, western civilization destroyed. It's a right wing paranoiac bingo card!

O.v.e.rlord · Dec 14, 2017

i_am_ben said:
I think some of you are trying to reframe and dismiss this 'style guide' as just a set of tactics to smear one's opponents.

Unfortunately, in this case, the 'opponents' happen to be gays, black people, women and jewish people. Moreover, what they're actually trying to do is to fan racism, violence and even genocide.

Frankly, its horrifying.

Did you even read what I was replying to? Like at all?!

F0rneus · Dec 14, 2017

DGrayson said:
Just note that there was a gap in moderation but mods are back now and hopefully assisting the conversation to go in a constructive manner.

We are watching these sorts of threads to ensure they dont devolve into personal attacks or content which isnt appropriate.

That's good to hear, and take good care of this place!

xandaca · Dec 15, 2017

Dunki said:
Why does it matter who your opponents are? Fact is these tactics are being used on every side of the political spectrum.. And you can not argue how it is good on one side while the other does the same and gets "lynched" for it. Here is some advice I personally follow: Either criticize both sides for the usage or do not. It is your decision in the end. I actually went with a mindset to criticize everyone no matter "on which side of history" (I really really hate this phrase) they are standing.

Besides the Left has become highly anti-semitic the last few years. So this alone is a pretty weak argument here.

Example for the same tactics? ? Teen Vogue Journalist:

NOW Imagine this one with instead of white and boy with black and girl. Same shit.

What date is that tweet from? I'm looking through her feed and haven't seen any sign of it apart from a tweet on Dec 10th where she mentions a quote about killing white babies being fabricated.

(She does, however, tweet an absolutely ludicrous amount. I've been scrolling her feed for what feels like an age and still haven't left December)

Dunki · Dec 15, 2017

xandaca said:
What date is that tweet from? I'm looking through her feed and haven't seen any sign of it apart from a tweet on Dec 10th where she mentions a quote about killing white babies being fabricated.

(She does, however, tweet an absolutely ludicrous amount. I've been scrolling her feed for what feels like an age and still haven't left December)

Then she deleted it because of the backslash she has gotten. I did not just copy this one. I checked myself back then because i know how easy it is to fake a tweet like this. I think it was in the beginning of December and saw it on her own feed making even fun of people who were upset about this.

xandaca · Dec 15, 2017

Dunki said:
Then she deleted it because of the backslash she has gotten. I did not just copy this one. I checked myself back then because i know how easy it is to fake a tweet like this. I think it was in the beginning of December and saw it on her own feed making even fun of people who were upset about this.

She did tweet "I hate white people" on Nov. 22nd, a tamer version of what you're talking about, so there's certainly that.

appaws · Dec 15, 2017

Dude Abides said:
Alinsky, far-leftist controlling media and academia, western civilization destroyed. It's a right wing paranoiac bingo card!

Do you want to respond to my actual point? That they are just using tactics as laid out by Saul Alinsky?

Alinsky and his writings are real you know...it wasn't made up by right wing paranoiacs.

Dunki · Dec 15, 2017

xandaca said:
She did tweet "I hate white people" on Nov. 22nd, a tamer version of what you're talking about, so there's certainly that.

I think it is quite sad that you can delete tweets that are up for a longer period of time just to hide your awfulness. And honestly I would not care much at all if she wasnt verrified by twitter who just recently changed their rules about it. She should have lost her status with this one IMO.

Dude Abides · Dec 15, 2017

appaws said:
Do you want to respond to my actual point? That they are just using tactics as laid out by Saul Alinsky?

Alinsky and his writings are real you know...it wasn't made up by right wing paranoiacs.

Rules for Radicals (which I'm confident youve never read) talks about how to write a blog? I realize (((Alinsky))) existed. He just doesnt have anything to do with this, however much the Turner Diaries crew sees him behind every bush.

tkscz · Dec 15, 2017

Alright, let's me take a sing at this thread to try to get calm heads in here.

On the point of the Strategy, as Appaws has pointed out, this is something that has been used for a long time, but was first written down and published in writing by Saul Alinsky. The entire blog is filled with strategies used by marketers, dictators, monarchs and the such throughout history. Their methods aren't new, but their ideals are vile. Luckily things like this are always noticeable and can be avoided and called out.

For half of the posters in this thread: The other half are not claiming that leftist don't use this type of strategy and aren't bad people incapable of horrible things, they are saying that the idea behind the two, far-left and alt-right, places different aspects on whats important, diversity vs white-supremacy. On which they support diversity.

For the other half of the posters in this thread: The first half are not claiming support of alt-right, they assume you are saying that leftist are always right and never do any wrong and are allowed to get away with shitty behavior. They're trying to show examples of why that is not true, regardless of the fact that, that isn't what you're trying to say.

Now that we understand what each side is trying to say, can we stop misunderstanding what the other is trying to argue and throwing labels around? This thread is made up of miscommunication and assumptions. How about we ask for details of what the other means and if it's not your argument, say "Hey, that's not the subject I'm arguing, I'm arguing such and such while you're talking about something different." Also drop the insults guys, insults just make people harden their resolve and causes the conflict to escalate and not de-escalate (there has to be a better word for that) the problem.

gunslikewhoa · Dec 15, 2017

krazen said:
Hrm. Id say ignoring them (which has been the MO since forever outside of the internet) lead to the real life consequence of a murder and Charlottesville shots of 'Jews Will Not Replace Us' beaming across the world as the current state of affairs here.

Well, actually ignoring them in that instance would have led to none of that happening.

Wasting all of this energy fighting a miniscule portion of the population who promote a ridiculous ideology that they are barely capable of turning anyone onto seems pointless.

RoboFu · Dec 15, 2017

I dont understand. The only people I see trolling are the people leaving for the other site. Are you saying they are all alt righters? Maybe Im miss understanding?

Dude Abides · Dec 15, 2017

tkscz said:
Alright, let's me take a sing at this thread to try to get calm heads in here.

On the point of the Strategy, as Appaws has pointed out, this is something that has been used for a long time, but was first written down and published in writing by Saul Alinsky.

When you lead your post off with Hannity bullshit why should anyone take the rest of your vapid wall of text seriously? Its like you guys have never read a book in your lives and just repeat what you read on Twitter.

Dr.Parity · Dec 15, 2017

appaws said:
Aren't the alt-right's tactics basically Alinskyite...? Seems like it to me.

And why wouldn't they adopt those tactics? They have worked to allow a small group of far-leftist social scolds to wield an oversized influence over society, dominating whole sectors of media and most of academia while the mainstream "conservatives" thought they were winning because they held political offices. Then they looked up and millennia of western civilization was in tatters.

It is a very effective strategy.

rofl, holy shit, everyone knew your facade before this place went to shit. Now you're openly spouting alt-right nonsense.

DGrayson said:
Just note that there was a gap in moderation but mods are back now and hopefully assisting the conversation to go in a constructive manner.

We are watching these sorts of threads to ensure they dont devolve into personal attacks or content which isnt appropriate.

Oh yes, making sure the conversations don't devolve into alt right talking points and people spouting constant dribble.

DGrayson · Dec 15, 2017

This thread has run its course. If anyone has any good reason for it to remain open send me a PM and we can discuss. Thanks.

Support NeoGAF

The Neo-Nazi/Alt-right playbook

Banned

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Tears in the rain

Member

Member

Mod Team and Bat Team

Member

Member

Banned

running_here_and_there

Member

Banned

running_here_and_there

Banned

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

Tears in the rain

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

One of the green rats

Banned

Banned

Mod Team and Bat Team

Similar threads