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Steam axes submission process, ALL new pubs/devs must go through Steam Greenlight.

S

szaromir

Banned
SalsaShark said:
bandwith costs money

a slot covers a slot for other games, there's only a limited amount you can properly highlight

big etc

people thinking Steam can just put out everything and are being somewhat evil about it as if the only interest was to not tarnish the look of their store are wrong.
Click to expand...

a)then redesign the store so that it can accommodate more releases, no reason to stick to an ancient layout if it harms health of the platform
b)if they can highlight proportionally less titles but have overall more titles available then be it. I'm sure devs who are denied access to Steam's userbase would rather have their game available on Steam but not featured on the storefront than not available at all
 
T

Tess3ract

Banned
Which comes to the crux of my point:

Valve of late has been working on framework. Past L4D1 and portal 2, most of the game is already there, and the orange box was just a mesh of existing work used to bring in a huge number of people to steam. But past that, more importantly on actual games?

Ubisoft Montreal is harder working. Bioware....is harder working.

Basically what I'm saying is: stop this shit and make more games please. I don't care or personally benefit from anything released by valve in the past few years that was not a game.
 
S

Salsa

Member
szaromir said:
b)if they can highlight proportionally less titles but have overall more titles available then be it. I'm sure devs who are denied access to Steam's userbase would rather have their game available on Steam but not featured on the storefront than not available at all
Click to expand...

but who decides what games get highlighted and wich dont? someone gets always gets shafted. It's not fair and as such shouldnt be implemented. When a game comes out it should be highlighted.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
Zia said:
Really disappointed in Valve. They're determined to have little to no customer or developer support for a service they keep expanding.
Click to expand...

well as long as they keep saying microsoft app store is the devil it's all OK.
 
R

Rubius

Member
Tess3ract said:
Which comes to the crux of my point:
But past that, more importantly on actual games?

Ubisoft Montreal is harder working. Bioware....is harder working.

Basically what I'm saying is: stop this shit and make more games please. I don't care or personally benefit from anything released by valve in the past few years that was not a game.
Click to expand...

Half-Life 1998 First-person shooter Windows, PlayStation 2
Team Fortress Classic 1999 First-person shooter Windows
Half-Life: Opposing Force 1999 Expansion pack Windows
Deathmatch Classic 2000 First-person shooter Windows
Ricochet 2000 Action game Windows
Counter-Strike 2000 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox
Half-Life: Blue Shift 2001 Expansion pack Windows
Half-Life: Decay 2001 Expansion pack PlayStation 2
Day of Defeat 2003 First-person shooter Windows
Counter-Strike: Condition Zero 2004 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox
Half-Life: Source 2004 First-person shooter Windows
Counter-Strike: Source 2004 First-person shooter Windows, Mac
Half-Life 2 2004 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Mac
Half-Life 2: Deathmatch 2004 First-person shooter Windows, Mac
Half-Life Deathmatch: Source 2005 First-person shooter Windows
Day of Defeat: Source 2005 First-person shooter Windows, Mac
Half-Life 2: Lost Coast 2005 First-person shooter Windows
Half-Life 2: Episode One 2006 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Mac
Half-Life 2: Episode Two 2007 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Mac
Portal 2007 Puzzle video game Windows, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Mac
Team Fortress 2 2007 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Mac
Left 4 Dead 2008 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox 360, Mac
Left 4 Dead 2 2009 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox 360, Mac, Linux
Alien Swarm 2010 Top-down shooter Windows
Portal 2 2011 Puzzle video game Windows, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Mac
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive 2012 First-person shooter Windows, Xbox 360, PlayStation 3, Mac
Dota 2 2012 Multiplayer online battle arena Windows, Mac

I do not see a single year with no release. Blizzard on the other hand release 3 games and simply make add on on those games.
 
S

szaromir

Banned
SalsaShark said:
but who decides what games get highlighted and wich dont? someone gets always gets shafted. It's not fair and as such shouldnt be implemented. When a game comes out it should be highlighted.
Click to expand...

Because? So it's better not to release a game at all than to release it and not to give it a featured spot?
 
T

Tess3ract

Banned
SalsaShark said:
fixed that for ya
Click to expand...
I very explicitly didn't say they were doing nothing.

I said nothing they were doing was what I want.

Rubius said:
I do not see a single year with no release. Blizzard on the other hand release 3 games and simply make add on on those games.
Click to expand...
The overwhelming majority of these are the same game updated with a newer engine with minor tweaks (at least on a user level)

That doesn't matter for anything but to them.

"aw yeah we pushed out half life 2 in 2004 and then essentially rereleased DOD in the source engine, and then took another year to release episode 1 which (on a user level) is basically a minor expansion pack under the same engine as hl2 was."

IIRC it wasn't until EP2 that they "updated" the engine but that's still minor to me. I could have survived on the old tech and they could have shifted those resources to something more useful.
 
E

Emitan

Member
BudokaiMR2 said:
But for all intensive purposes it is. Anyone with any sort of relevant data will tell you the same. And please no more pointing out Minecraft! Yes there will always be one in a million success stories but I don't think it is wrong to hope for a stable and proven storefront like Steam to be more accessible.
Click to expand...

Please no. I don't want to be a grammar nazi, but no.

"For all intents and purposes"
 
S

Soule

Member
Zia said:
Really disappointed in Valve. They're determined to have little to no customer or developer support for a service they keep expanding.
Click to expand...

Some of the criticism in here is kinda hilarious, this however I kind of agree with. Big Valve fan however their customer service is way behind for a service that is so large and expanding, I'd love to see them pick their game up here because right now it's lacking for sure.
Billiechu said:
Please no. I don't want to be a grammar nazi, but no.

"For all intents and purposes"
Click to expand...
ty, second on my list of pet peeves behind "I could care less"
 
D

demidar

Member
Tess3ract said:
I very explicitly didn't say they were doing nothing.

I said nothing they were doing was what I want.


The overwhelming majority of these are the same game updated with a newer engine with minor tweaks (at least on a user level)

That doesn't matter for anything but to them.
Click to expand...

Half Life Source and Day of Defeat Source and... and.. help me out here.

Overwhelming majority indeed.
 
S

Salsa

Member
szaromir said:
Because? So it's better not to release a game at all than to release it and not to give it a featured spot?
Click to expand...

im saying it would generate problems that would lead to a huge disagreement between Valve and most developers/publishers. As it stands now every game on Steam has the same chance of selling good or bad, the only thing that gets in the way is the game's quality itself. They want to keep it this way.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
szaromir said:
Because? So it's better not to release a game at all than to release it and not to give it a featured spot?
Click to expand...

For purposes of maximizing the revenue and long-term success of each individual title released on your storefront, yes, it is actually better to curate than to just provide an app dump. Part of the tradeoff for developers on iOS is that the floor of sales is extremely low, discoverability outside a fairly high threshold is
extremely low, and a huge number of titles just sink into the swamp without ever making a blip on anyone's radar.

Because Steam is 100% curated to at least a certain (nominal) standard of quality, their ability to offer some level of visibility and promotion to everything in their catalogue is noticeably greater than it'd be if they just let every awful garbage game in.
 
X

xJavonta

Banned
Tess3ract said:
I very explicitly didn't say they were doing nothing.

I said nothing they were doing was what I want.


The overwhelming majority of these are the same game updated with a newer engine with minor tweaks (at least on a user level)

That doesn't matter for anything but to them.

"aw yeah we pushed out half life 2 in 2004 and then essentially rereleased DOD in the source engine, and then took another year to release episode 1 which (on a user level) is basically a minor expansion pack under the same engine as hl2 was."

IIRC it wasn't until EP2 that they "updated" the engine but that's still minor to me. I could have survived on the old tech and they could have shifted those resources to something more useful.
Click to expand...

Sure, every year may have an update to the engine, but they're also accompanied by an actual release of a new game. I don't see anything there that says otherwise.
 
T

Tess3ract

Banned
demidar said:
Half Life Source and Day of Defeat Source and... and.. help me out here.

Overwhelming majority indeed.
Click to expand...

Okay:

Half-Life Okay cool
Team Fortress okay cool
Half-Life: Opposing Force wait wasn't this designed by a fan?
Deathmatch Classic Zzzzz
Ricochet 2000 zzzzzz
Counter-Strike Okay cool
Half-Life: Blue Shift wait wasn't this designed by a fan?
Half-Life: Decay The fact I love valve games and I've never heard of this doesn't bode well
Day of Defeat Okay cool
Counter-Strike: Condition Zero zzzzzzzz
Half-Life: Source zzzzzz
Counter-Strike: Source zzzzz
Half-Life 2 okay neat
Half-Life 2: Deathmatch zzzzzzzzzzz
Half-Life Deathmatch: Source zzzzzzzzzzz
Day of Defeat: Source zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Half-Life 2: Lost Coast it's a goddamn fucking tech demo they already had lying around
Half-Life 2: Episode One okay, but it's just an expac
Half-Life 2: Episode Two okay but it's just an expac
Portal neat, but it's also 5 hours long :(
Team Fortress 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Left 4 Dead neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Left 4 Dead 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Alien Swarm wasn't this just published by valve? I can't believe this was actually designed by them
Portal 2 okay neat
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Dota 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in


So AFAIC 1998-2004-2006-2007-2011 was the years they released anything, and 2006/2007 were pretty lite

Des0lar said:
Tess3ract derailing a Valve thread once again I see.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry let me just keep my opinions to myself, discourse is unwanted on a forum.
 
S

szaromir

Banned
SalsaShark said:
im saying it would generate problems that would lead to a huge disagreement between Valve and most developers/publishers. As it stands now every game on Steam has the same chance of selling good or bad, the only thing that gets in the way is the game's quality itself. They want to keep it this way.
Click to expand...
That's not true. You enter Steam store, you're welcomed by a giant Blops 2 picture. Below that you can scroll through seven fairly big pictures, belowe that you have a window of 6 featured PC/Mac games, below that you have a window showcasing top sellers/new releases/. Games get vastly different levels of visibility, the only advantage at the moment is that smaller stuff is visible in the 'new releases' section for several days but that does not make all games equal.
charlequin said:
For purposes of maximizing the revenue and long-term success of each individual title released on your storefront, yes, it is actually better to curate than to just provide an app dump. Part of the tradeoff for developers on iOS is that the floor of sales is extremely low, discoverability outside a fairly high threshold is
extremely low, and a huge number of titles just sink into the swamp without ever making a blip on anyone's radar.

Because Steam is 100% curated to at least a certain (nominal) standard of quality, their ability to offer some level of visibility and promotion to everything in their catalogue is noticeably greater than it'd be if they just let every awful garbage game in.
Click to expand...
Obviously no one's talking about allowing absolutely everything on Steam, but Steam has denied many quality games because 'they're not a good fit for the store' or whatever. There has to be some middle ground, where you have the advantages of some level of curation and every polished PC indie game available on Steam.
 
R

Rubius

Member
Tess3ract said:
Okay:
So AFAIC 1998-2004-2006-2007-2011 was the years they released anything, and 2006/2007 were pretty lite


I'm sorry let me just keep my opinions to myself, discourse is unwanted on a forum.
Click to expand...

Except that you are on forum where you are not alone. You cannot have a serious discussion based on your preference. Discussion are based on Facts or else anybody can say "Well I dont like that, so it does not count."
 
X

xJavonta

Banned
Tess3ract said:
Okay:

Half-Life Okay cool
Team Fortress okay cool
Half-Life: Opposing Force wait wasn't this designed by a fan?
Deathmatch Classic Zzzzz
Ricochet 2000 zzzzzz
Counter-Strike Okay cool
Half-Life: Blue Shift wait wasn't this designed by a fan?
Half-Life: Decay The fact I love valve games and I've never heard of this doesn't bode well
Day of Defeat Okay cool
Counter-Strike: Condition Zero zzzzzzzz
Half-Life: Source zzzzzz
Counter-Strike: Source zzzzz
Half-Life 2 okay neat
Half-Life 2: Deathmatch zzzzzzzzzzz
Half-Life Deathmatch: Source zzzzzzzzzzz
Day of Defeat: Source zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Half-Life 2: Lost Coast it's a goddamn fucking tech demo they already had lying around
Half-Life 2: Episode One okay, but it's just an expac
Half-Life 2: Episode Two okay but it's just an expac
Portal neat, but it's also 5 hours long :(
Team Fortress 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Left 4 Dead neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Left 4 Dead 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Alien Swarm wasn't this just published by valve? I can't believe this was actually designed by them
Portal 2 okay neat
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Dota 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in


So AFAIC 1998-2004-2006-2007-2011 was the years they released anything, and 2006/2007 were pretty lite


I'm sorry let me just keep my opinions to myself, discourse is unwanted on a forum.
Click to expand...

Whether you like them or not they are releases, and significant ones at that.
 
S

Salsa

Member
szaromir said:
That's not true. You enter Steam store, you're welcomed by a giant Blops 2 picture. Below that you can scroll through seven fairly big pictures, belowe that you have a window of 6 featured PC/Mac games, below that you have a window showcasing top sellers/new releases/. Games get vastly different levels of visibility, the only advantage at the moment is that smaller stuff is visible in the 'new releases' section for several days but that does not make all games equal.
Obviously no one's talking about allowing absolutely everything on Steam, but Steam has denied many quality games because 'they're not a good fit for the store' or whatever. There has to be some middle ground, where you have the advantages of some level of curation and every polished PC indie game available on Steam.
Click to expand...

the first things you get in the store page is every single game that was recently released. You get Tomas was alone right below Black Ops 2. How's that not fair visibility? who else does that?

yes the Activision game gets a huge-ass image, they often do this for big AAA releases. The other games that get highlighted over other ones are because they're on discount or on sale (or recently released, or selling really well, or have new content) wich Valve works out with the actual developers and publishers.

also, the middle ground you say exists. For all intents and purposes the vast majority of the most polished PC indie games is on Steam. The other side is Greenlight.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
szaromir said:
There has to be some middle ground, where you have the advantages of some level of curation and every polished PC indie game available on Steam.
Click to expand...

Well, right, I agree. I earnestly think that an improved version of the Greenlight process plus some level of continued manual curation and a pledge by Valve to expand their horizons slightly is the way to get there.
 
D

demidar

Member
Tess3ract said:
Okay:

Half-Life Okay cool
Team Fortress okay cool
Half-Life: Opposing Force wait wasn't this designed by a fan?
Deathmatch Classic Zzzzz YES
Ricochet 2000 zzzzzz NO
Counter-Strike Okay cool
Half-Life: Blue Shift wait wasn't this designed by a fan?
Half-Life: Decay The fact I love valve games and I've never heard of this doesn't bode well
Day of Defeat Okay cool
Counter-Strike: Condition Zero zzzzzzzz YES
Half-Life: Source zzzzzz YES
Counter-Strike: Source zzzzz YES
Half-Life 2 okay neat
Half-Life 2: Deathmatch zzzzzzzzzzz NO
Half-Life Deathmatch: Source zzzzzzzzzzz YES
Day of Defeat: Source zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz YES
Half-Life 2: Lost Coast it's a goddamn fucking tech demo they already had lying around
Half-Life 2: Episode One okay, but it's just an expac
Half-Life 2: Episode Two okay but it's just an expac
Portal neat, but it's also 5 hours long :(
Team Fortress 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Left 4 Dead neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Left 4 Dead 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in
Alien Swarm wasn't this just published by valve? I can't believe this was actually designed by them
Portal 2 okay neat
Counter-Strike: Global Offensive zzzzzzzzzzzzzz NO
Dota 2 neat, but nothing I'm interested in


So AFAIC 1998-2004-2006-2007-2011 was the years they released anything, and 2006/2007 were pretty lite


I'm sorry let me just keep my opinions to myself, discourse is unwanted on a forum.
Click to expand...

I pared that list down for you, but it's still not an ovewhelming majority even if I didn't have to curate anything.
 
T

Tess3ract

Banned
Rubius said:
Except that you are on forum where you are not alone. You cannot have a serious discussion based on your preference. Discussion are based on Facts or else anybody can say "Well I dont like that, so it does not count."
Click to expand...
I was making my point and backing it up with why I felt that way
confused.gif


I never said anyone else was wrong, nor did I imply that.

Ugh I'm going to bed.
 
F

FoneBone

Member
Blizzard said:
Someone else mentioned Pinball Arcade. Is there more to the story than Valve simply thinking the game won't sell well?
Click to expand...

I wonder about this, too. If they really concluded it "wasn't a good fit" in spite of its success on other platforms, they might as well be making decisions with a dartboard.
 
S

szaromir

Banned
SalsaShark said:
the first things you get in the store page is every single game that was recently released. You get Tomas was alone right below Black Ops 2. How's that not fair visibility? who else does that?

yes the Activision game gets a huge-ass image, they often do this for big AAA releases. The other games that get highlighted over other ones are because they're on discount or on sale (or recently released, or selling really well, or have new content) wich Valve works out with the actual developers and publishers.

also, Steam is pretty much the middle-ground you say has to exist. For all intents and purposes the vast majority of the most polished PC indie game on Steam.
Click to expand...

No, the first thing you see on the store page is the Blops2 ad.

A large portion of polished indie games is still not released on Steam and the lack of guarantee for devs to have a realistic possibility of that discourages them from developing for PC altogether. How is it not a huge problem for the platform?

Well, right, I agree. I earnestly think that an improved version of the Greenlight process plus some level of continued manual curation and a pledge by Valve to expand their horizons slightly is the way to get there.
Click to expand...
I'm happy we agreed. ;)

I'm not going to post here anymore, I think I spent enough time here and there's nothing to add really.
 
S

Salsa

Member
szaromir said:
No, the first thing you see on the store page is the Blops2 ad.
Click to expand...

ugh, c'mon man, im talking about every day, the black ops 2 ad is there because it came out today

szaromir said:
A large portion of polished indie games is still not released on Steam and the lack of guarantee for devs to have a realistic possibility of that discourages them from developing for PC altogether. How is it not a huge problem for the platform?
Click to expand...

jesus christ what the fuck is this argument

the lack of guarantee for devs to have a realistic possibility of getting into Steam discourages PC development?!?!?!?!?!?

THE ONLY REASON we got a fucking HUGE bump into PC development that pretty much surpasses any state of the market before is because Steam exists. Everyone and their mothers want to be on PC because of Steam. Where are you pulling these arguments from!? give me one example of what you're saying here, please, it's getting ridiculous. You are making assumptions based on nothing. As logical as they could be, it is simply just not true until it happens.

Steam put the PC back into the market and it is still very much evolving and getting better and better. There is absolutely 0 evidence of this slowing down or Steam harming the market in a measurable and significant way.

No one chooses not to do PC development because they might not get on Steam, fucking everyone chooses to do because the possibility of getting IN.

It's kind of incredible how factually wrong you are on this
 
W

Warm Machine

Member
SalsaShark said:
No one chooses not to do PC development because they might not get on Steam, fucking everyone chooses to do because the possibility of getting IN.
Click to expand...

It is interesting you say this because our next game will not get a regular PC version unless it goes through Greenlight first. More likely there will be a Win 8 store version.
 
S

Salsa

Member
Warm Machine said:
It is interesting you say this because our next game will not get a regular PC version unless it goes through Greenlight first. More likely there will be a Win 8 store version.
Click to expand...

not saying there arent exceptions, but you cant deny that Steam is what made people give a second look at the market, even when you decide to go into W8. I dont see how it disqualifies it either, there's nothing wrong with releasing in other stores and markets, the reality is that you're still "applying" to Steam, when most devs ussually wouldnt look at the PC twice if there wasnt a service like it.

we wouldnt be near where we are if it wasnt for the service. I might really like Valve and whatever, but anyone who's been barely paying attention could tell you this. Saying that Steam is causing people to not go into PC development is ridiculous. Specially when every other service out there (except for phone stuff) is way more closed and expensive.
 
A

alexandros

Banned
Curation is absolutely needed. I don't want Steam to turn into an Apple App Store-like situation with huge piles of crap drowing out quality games. Anyone who's actually taken the time to explore the offerings on Greenlight will probably know already that the signal-to-noise ratio is at best 1:10.

plagiarize said:
great finished PC games are being kept off Steam. Greenlight hasn't fixed that.
Click to expand...

Fully agreed. Finished or close-to-release games should be given their own top-50, top-100 or whatever. More long-term games should get in too of course, as the guaranteed place on Steam probably allows developers to spend a bit more and improve their games before release.

plagiarize said:
like I said, that's why I'm glad that they're afraid of Windows 8 and it's store.
Click to expand...

Let's not open that can of ugly, smelly worms in here please.
 
C

Coxy

Member
charlequin said:
Almost every genre that has at least a strong niche fanbase on PC should be considered for inclusion (the pinball games are a great example here, but I'm sure there are other niche markets that have a similar issue.) Considering the top games by genre as well as overall would ensure more diversity and also help certain types of games get their foot in the door when otherwise they could be easily overlooked.
Click to expand...

Again, this is a self fulfilling prophecy, if you dont include games that dont already have a fanbase, steam wont get those games and they will never have a fanbase.
 
F

Forkball

Member
I can understand it for garage projects, but when you've already got a game on Steam, it seems very counterproductive for everyone involved. I wish Valve would throw the Greenlight titles on Steam more quickly as well. I suppose they don't want games to be lost in the shuffle, but it will take forever at the pace they're currently moving.

*goes to vote on new greenlight games*
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Coxy said:
Again, this is a self fulfilling prophecy, if you dont include games that dont already have a fanbase, steam wont get those games and they will never have a fanbase.
Click to expand...

This only makes sense if you assume that Steam is literally the only way people find out about interesting indie games, which isn't remotely true.

(Also, your comment had nothing to do with the section you quoted, so... not sure where you were going with that exactly.)
 
Z

Zizbuka

Banned
Tess3ract said:
Which comes to the crux of my point:

Valve of late has been working on framework. Past L4D1 and portal 2, most of the game is already there, and the orange box was just a mesh of existing work used to bring in a huge number of people to steam. But past that, more importantly on actual games?

Ubisoft Montreal is harder working. Bioware....is harder working.

Basically what I'm saying is: stop this shit and make more games please. I don't care or personally benefit from anything released by valve in the past few years that was not a game.
Click to expand...

Broaden your horizins a bit. You don't think Steam is mostly responsible for the volume of PC games lately? Or that we have access to tons of games that we would have otherwise never known existed?

Face it, Valve is no longer a game development company. A lot of developers/publishers/gamers owe a ton of gratitude to Valve.
 
A

alexandros

Banned
Zizbuka said:
Face it, Valve is no longer just a game development company. A lot of developers/publishers/gamers owe a ton of gratitude to Valve.
Click to expand...

Slight fix there, but I basically agree. Valve has in a way become the 'face' of PC gaming and their role as a platform leader is in my opinion much more important, especially given recent developments with Windows 8.
 
Z

Zizbuka

Banned
Warm Machine said:
It is interesting you say this because our next game will not get a regular PC version unless it goes through Greenlight first. More likely there will be a Win 8 store version.
Click to expand...

I hope you won't limit yourself to the Win 8 store. The fact that Steam is at least trying to be somewhat selective is a good thing to me. I would hate for it to become like the Apple and Android markets, overloaded with shovelware.
 
P

PsychoSoldier

Banned
I think that obviously focused curation is needed along with the greenlight process, but ultimately I think that Valve is likely doing the right thing by keeping the amount of games on their platform relatively small.

It may be hard (perhaps too hard) to get in, but it seems to have a huge benefit to the games that do get in. I mean, look at fuckin' Towns in the top 10 after getting greenlit, and that game is probably actually more in beta than a finished game.
 
S

szaromir

Banned
SalsaShark said:
jesus christ what the fuck is this argument

the lack of guarantee for devs to have a realistic possibility of getting into Steam discourages PC development?!?!?!?!?!?

THE ONLY REASON we got a fucking HUGE bump into PC development that pretty much surpasses any state of the market before is because Steam exists. Everyone and their mothers want to be on PC because of Steam. Where are you pulling these arguments from!? give me one example of what you're saying here, please, it's getting ridiculous. You are making assumptions based on nothing. As logical as they could be, it is simply just not true until it happens.

Steam put the PC back into the market and it is still very much evolving and getting better and better. There is absolutely 0 evidence of this slowing down or Steam harming the market in a measurable and significant way.

No one chooses not to do PC development because they might not get on Steam, fucking everyone chooses to do because the possibility of getting IN.

It's kind of incredible how factually wrong you are on this
Click to expand...
I'm betting 2 to 1 that you were not a PC gamer in 2008 or earlier.
 
N

Nome

Member
Tess3ract said:
Which comes to the crux of my point:

Valve of late has been working on framework. Past L4D1 and portal 2, most of the game is already there, and the orange box was just a mesh of existing work used to bring in a huge number of people to steam. But past that, more importantly on actual games?

Ubisoft Montreal is harder working. Bioware....is harder working.

Basically what I'm saying is: stop this shit and make more games please. I don't care or personally benefit from anything released by valve in the past few years that was not a game.
Click to expand...
Valve works on what they're interested in. Guess you're out of luck :p
 
V

Vaporak

Member
Tess3ract said:
I was making my point and backing it up with why I felt that way
confused.gif
Click to expand...

No you didn't. You explicity said this:
Tess3ract said:
The overwhelming majority of these are the same game updated with a newer engine with minor tweaks (at least on a user level)
Click to expand...

And then when presented with a list, you went through it and failed to provide evidence to support that statement. It's fine if you don't like Valve as a developer, but at the bare minimum you should stick to the facts or it's not even a discussion.
 
P

plagiarize

Banned
Rubius said:
Steam is a private company who does what she want and is pretty successful at doing that. I mean, you can always go sell your sandwich on the other side of the road. Sure, its less popular, but you can make a profit for it. Steam is not the only platform.
Click to expand...

I was thinking about this argument of 'why don't you just go sell your sandwich in another store?'. Obviously one answer is that you can't sell enough sandwiches in the other store, but I'm sure you're aware of that already, so I assume that you don't really care there, and nor do you need to.

Take a look at a game like The Pinball Arcade or Pinball FX2. Both are games with a 'sell more tables as DLC' business model. Both are games that really require leaderboards, and both are games that benefit from achievements of some kind.

Not only does Steam offer a platform that supports all of these things but they provide you with an SDK that makes including all of those things in your game much easier than if you shipped on most other services where you'd have to build a lot of those systems by yourself.

The costs of developing a game like Pinball FX2 to be released on GOG vs Steam are higher, and sales are going to be lower. I don't know how realistic it is for a small developer to write their own DRM system and build their own digital store to support DLC, but that cost was obviously prohibitive enough to prevent The Pinball Arcade and Pinball FX2 from releasing on those other stores (especially considering the reduced sales they'd have).

Pinball FX2 eventually went with Xbox Live for Windows 8 as their leaderboard / achievement / DRM system. TPA and other games may go the same route if Valve keep passing on quality titles like that.

Valve don't just nicely package your sandwich and give it better visibility than anyone else, they support a business model that few other places support at all.

You obviously see the value in all the things steam offers developers to help make making their game easier from your response to comments on Steam workshop etc.

Valve don't care if a game is released to good reviews on other formats. They don't care if a game can point to a groundswell of community support outside of their own system. I really hope Greenlight because a much better system and takes the decision making out of their hands because they obviously weren't very good at it (if you're going to let every game from a major publisher on your service while denying great indie titles, you suck at quality control), I just really wish they hadn't dumped everything into Greenlight before it was working properly.
 
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