only boss in EN that is unfriendly to less people is dragons...thats about it everything else if you have the numbers can be 5 manned in normal EN
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World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004
- Thread starter ampere
- Start date
only boss in EN that is unfriendly to less people is dragons...thats about it everything else if you have the numbers can be 5 manned in normal EN
jaundicejuice
Member
Group with randoms, friend said randoms, play 15 matches.While you and your wife can complete the quest on your own in just bot matches against beginner ai, it's faster in a 5 stack of like-minded people trying to farm that mount. Insta-queues and 10 min matches zerg rushing a lane to core.
Tier bonuses for 7.2.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=260284/...ges-transmog-achievements-tier-20-set-bonuses
The Fury ones are really strong.
Also, this means that if you have the helmet and 4-piece, you will get 14 free rage each time you enrage. That's crazy.
[edit]
Arms tier bonuses are a bit...odd.
http://www.wowhead.com/news=260284/...ges-transmog-achievements-tier-20-set-bonuses
The Fury ones are really strong.
Also, this means that if you have the helmet and 4-piece, you will get 14 free rage each time you enrage. That's crazy.
[edit]
Arms tier bonuses are a bit...odd.
Questions for the DKs out there.
I'm a dirty casual and main spec blood DK with my primary gametime dedicated to M+ runs. My gearscore is finally high enough (880) that I'm thinking about pugging some normal raids. While I'll try tanking these, I think it's more likely I'll have better luck pugging raids as DPS frost.
So - I have already been extremely fortunate to get blood bracers and shoulders as my first 2 legendaries. My question is; should I just switch my loot spec to frost at this point? I've got 2 of the best blood legs and unless we are getting 3 equippable legs in the future, I'm probably better served going for some dps legs for pug raiding.
I'm a dirty casual and main spec blood DK with my primary gametime dedicated to M+ runs. My gearscore is finally high enough (880) that I'm thinking about pugging some normal raids. While I'll try tanking these, I think it's more likely I'll have better luck pugging raids as DPS frost.
So - I have already been extremely fortunate to get blood bracers and shoulders as my first 2 legendaries. My question is; should I just switch my loot spec to frost at this point? I've got 2 of the best blood legs and unless we are getting 3 equippable legs in the future, I'm probably better served going for some dps legs for pug raiding.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, most gear is shared anyways, if your only interest is Legendaries and you aren't going to get any actual upgrades, I don't see why you wouldn't set your loot spec to the spec where you'd get meaningful upgrades.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Been leveling my monk today. Started as WW, but I'm gonna pick up the Brew weapon when I get back tonight. Just at 102 so far with 3/5s of Azsuna down.
Hadn't played it since before 7.1.5 I think. A few changes in that time it seems, so was having a bit more fun than I did before.
Could stay WW, but I'm already fairly invested in my Fury warrior and Frost mage now, besides my main. I mean, I'm not sure how much I'll like targeting tank legendaries as I do enjoy DPS more, but since I already have 3 DPS focused characters, I may as well go full tank. We don't have a dedicated Brewmaster, so if I have one, it might be useful sometime in the future. Although gearing a tank to an acceptable level as an alternate for mythic raids might be kinda difficult and/or spinning wheels, vs. just swapping specs on my DH.
I guess I could stay WW loot spec up until the first legendary to see if it's a BiS damage one, then swap to Brew full-time if its not. Though having a Brewmaster with legendaries, a committed tank spec for running Mythic+ would be good, since we only have two main raid tanks and the one doesn't have time to do much content outside raids.
Definitely not into healing so much unless I'd be desperately needed, but we usually run a pretty strong healing core, and our best healer just swapped from her holy priest back to her MW (simultaneously we picked up a replacement priest). I haven't healed a raid (I don't think even LFR) since Wrath anyway.
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Anyway yeah, suggestions on dealing with the legendary problem though? Dedicated Brew all the way, or see what I can fish up first for Windwalker?
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It spouts fire as the mount-special tho
Hadn't played it since before 7.1.5 I think. A few changes in that time it seems, so was having a bit more fun than I did before.
Could stay WW, but I'm already fairly invested in my Fury warrior and Frost mage now, besides my main. I mean, I'm not sure how much I'll like targeting tank legendaries as I do enjoy DPS more, but since I already have 3 DPS focused characters, I may as well go full tank. We don't have a dedicated Brewmaster, so if I have one, it might be useful sometime in the future. Although gearing a tank to an acceptable level as an alternate for mythic raids might be kinda difficult and/or spinning wheels, vs. just swapping specs on my DH.
I guess I could stay WW loot spec up until the first legendary to see if it's a BiS damage one, then swap to Brew full-time if its not. Though having a Brewmaster with legendaries, a committed tank spec for running Mythic+ would be good, since we only have two main raid tanks and the one doesn't have time to do much content outside raids.
Definitely not into healing so much unless I'd be desperately needed, but we usually run a pretty strong healing core, and our best healer just swapped from her holy priest back to her MW (simultaneously we picked up a replacement priest). I haven't healed a raid (I don't think even LFR) since Wrath anyway.
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Anyway yeah, suggestions on dealing with the legendary problem though? Dedicated Brew all the way, or see what I can fish up first for Windwalker?
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It spouts fire as the mount-special tho
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
The entire AP system is garbage.
Also, the Rogue T20 bonuses are pretty lol-worthy.
Item - Rogue T20 Assassination 2P Bonus (New) Garrote's cooldown is reduced by 6.0 sec.
Item - Rogue T20 Assassination 4P Bonus (New) Garrote generates 1 additional combo point and deals 20% increased damage.
Item - Rogue T20 Outlaw 2P Bonus (New) Free Pistol Shots increase your critical strike chance by 10% for 8 seconds.
Item - Rogue T20 Outlaw 4P Bonus (New) Adrenaline Rush persists for 15 sec longer at half power.
Item - Rogue T20 Subtlety 2P Bonus (New) Symbols of Death costs 30 less Energy.
Item - Rogue T20 Subtlety 4P Bonus (New) Symbols of Death causes your next 3 Shadowstrikes to critically strike.
Reducing Garotte's cooldown doesn't even do anything because its duration causes it to come off CD in the pandemic window. It just lets you....multidot, I suppose. And the Outlaw 4 pc. is screaming for the player to just spam RTB until they get True Bearing so they can achieve 100% Adrenaline Rush uptime.
cartographer
Member
I eagerly await the "6 roll or TB" rotation guideline with that 4 pc.
I think I'm joking.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Technically a 6 is a TB roll.
But a 30 second adrenaline rush pretty much skyrockets the value of True Bearing, I'd think. If you get to TB within a reasonable number of rolls each time you just get it 100% of the time. Which is just more RNG shit.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Please elaborate.
I think the core idea at least is sound, even if I have some qualms with how it ended up panning out so far.
In the absence of badges/valor/etc. at a base level i think it works as an endgame progression activity.
Now if you're super against grinding (albeit why someone would play an MMORPG if they weren't up for grinds is another question entirely), then I guess I can understand.
However since the addition of the catch-up mechanisms in 7.1.5, I would say it's pretty fair. I mean you're not gonna get to 54 overnight, but you can at least speed to 35 reasonably quickly. I mean, it's not like your acquisition of gear will far outpace your AP gains unless you're getting heavily carried to get caught up for a specific purpose. Beyond 35 sure, you're gonna have to put more legwork in, but unless you're maintaining multiple alts for mythic raiding as in the case of bleeding edge guilds, you're probably only going to be spending much time on one character.
And the tier-piece bonuses for Tomb are still gonna be works in progress, probably to be taken into account with other class changes that haven't been published yet. I'm not too fussed about it yet.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Because the game is fun and hasn't actually required excessively grinding singular activities in a years. It punishes you for not dedicating yourself to one character and puts casual or mid-level raiders even further behind everyone else because they don't have the time or resources to compete, despite the fact they were already subjected to being behind the curve on gear.
The summary of this is that its grindy bullshit that encourages you to spend disproportionate amounts of time in the game mechanically running farm content. I'm not saying I do it, because I don't want to, I'm just saying it encourages you to do it by giving the player a huge AP dump that you won't realistically reach unless you spend lots and lots of time on a single character and spec.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Well it's not really singular activities. You get AP from nearly everything - WQs, Raids, PvP, Dungeons. It just happened that people "solved" the system with Maw runs. That's more of an oversight than a designed intent.
7.2 should also solve some of this with longer dungeons and higher level M+ awarding correspondingly more AP, as well as weighting the M+ weekly cache with a hefty chunk, and tuning AP drops from raids up. There may be other tweaks, but those are all steps in the right direction.
But I do agree that I don't like that it sort of soft locks you into a specific spec. However legendaries as they are right now are a worse offender when it comes to spec locking. But that's sort of besides the point.
I said it before and I'll say it again, incremental improvement system for playing the game is a GOOD thing to me. Knowing that just by playing, without any luck involved, I can work towards small improvements in my character is very nice. Not my fault that some people have no self control and have to "finish" the system by grinding content over and over as opposed to just having it happen naturally by playing, or that there are crazy guilds that require that kind of effort to be put in. I haven't done a single piece of extra content designed to grind AP, and I'm at 13/20. If I was a DPS, that means there would be a 3.5% DPS difference between me and someone who grinded Maw until his nipples fell off. Would it be more tolerable to people if each point was a 0.25% DPS increase or something? Or would people still feel the need to grind 1000 Maw runs for 5% more DPS? At some point, you shouldn't take progression away from players just because some people cannot exercise self control.
Now, there are certainly problems with the AP system, but it is certainly more good than bad. Main problems include the fact that dungeon AP is not tied to dungeon length, but this is being fixed in 7.2. Another issue is that raids don't drop enough AP, each boss should be guaranteed to drop an AP token at the minimum, certainly each raid boss on Mythic should drop AP equivalent to a Maw run at +10. Some people think that there should be a limit on M+ AP, but that is stupid. The point of AP is that all content you do rewards you with something. If you limited M+ to only give X AP per week or something, crazy people would just switch to doing random heroics non stop for AP grinding, which would be much more boring and people would complain even more.
I don't like that it "locks" you into a spec, but I think the effect AP has on this is overstated. You can VERY easily get an offspec to finish their weapon at AK25 and pick up the 5% DPS paragon. At that point, you are only 10% behind someone who has fully finished their weapon. And honestly, your alt spec should be 10% behind someone's main spec, that seems fair. But you can also be easily fully functional at that point, and you can finish an off-spec weapon to the 5% paragon in a week of WQs without any M+ runs if you want, so it isn't that prohibitive. I think spec specific legendaries are MUCH worse for switching specs and playing off-specs than AP is, and this is coming from a Druid, the one class with 4 total specs and artifacts to level up.
Now, there are certainly problems with the AP system, but it is certainly more good than bad. Main problems include the fact that dungeon AP is not tied to dungeon length, but this is being fixed in 7.2. Another issue is that raids don't drop enough AP, each boss should be guaranteed to drop an AP token at the minimum, certainly each raid boss on Mythic should drop AP equivalent to a Maw run at +10. Some people think that there should be a limit on M+ AP, but that is stupid. The point of AP is that all content you do rewards you with something. If you limited M+ to only give X AP per week or something, crazy people would just switch to doing random heroics non stop for AP grinding, which would be much more boring and people would complain even more.
I don't like that it "locks" you into a spec, but I think the effect AP has on this is overstated. You can VERY easily get an offspec to finish their weapon at AK25 and pick up the 5% DPS paragon. At that point, you are only 10% behind someone who has fully finished their weapon. And honestly, your alt spec should be 10% behind someone's main spec, that seems fair. But you can also be easily fully functional at that point, and you can finish an off-spec weapon to the 5% paragon in a week of WQs without any M+ runs if you want, so it isn't that prohibitive. I think spec specific legendaries are MUCH worse for switching specs and playing off-specs than AP is, and this is coming from a Druid, the one class with 4 total specs and artifacts to level up.
cartographer
Member
I mean, now you can. Now that pretty much everyone who played somewhat near launch is at AK 25. But that it finally became "OK" after 4-5 months isn't a great sign when AK 40 is coming up. They'll add OK catch-up mechanics for that after another 4-5 months and pretend that it wasn't an issue long before.
I don't think AP is the worst offender in locking people into a spec, but it definitely is one. Legendaries are the biggest issue. Relics, particularly for some specs, are also fairly significant. I don't think AP is as big as those, but it's there. Catching up on AP is much less painless than those two (especially if you are switching to something like balance druid, where no other spec in your class uses a certain relic type). I've been tyring to get some decent relics and trinkets for balance and I'm terrified of accidentally getting a balance legendary when there are still guardian ones I want.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean, a lot of this discounts that you have to play for a long time to even get to AK25 and that 10% is a pretty huge margin in the game as it is.
Even for someone on their first character who hit 110 today, you can buy up to AK 15, and it would take a max of 30 days to reach AK25 (assuming that research at AK15 is still 3 days per, I'm not sure since all my alts start at 20). How much faster should it be for someone who has literally not played legion at all until now? And it isn't like its impossible to hit the 5% trait under AK25, most of us did it at 15-20 who were playing a reasonable amount. Sure, it could be quicker, but I don't really think it needs to be. Why does someone who has never played before and just hit 110 today NEED to be ready to head into Mythic NH in a week? Wasn't one of the things people liked about Wrath and TBC that people were at all different levels, running different stuff for the whole expansion?
And 10% damage is the DPS difference between a warrior who got lucky and got that trinket vs one that didn't, or a single piece of gear. Its the difference between seeing someone doing 500k vs 550k, which is within margin of error for play. Sure it could be less, but again, someone playing for 6 months SHOULD do 10% more damage than someone playing for 1 month... The whole point of an MMO is the more you put into it the better you do.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
Yeah I did mention it before, but at least for Havoc, just winning the legendary lottery gives a damage boost roughly equivalent to that of points 36-54. (Obviously you'll get even stronger with those points on top of that, but still).
And for sure if you're just stepping into Legion now, there's no reason to expect to be in Mythic Nighthold within a week, let alone a month or whatever compared to the people that have been playing since expansion launch.
And for sure if you're just stepping into Legion now, there's no reason to expect to be in Mythic Nighthold within a week, let alone a month or whatever compared to the people that have been playing since expansion launch.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I feel like being a fire mage is letting me down
feels bad
feels bad
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
auctioneer suite
I have a few TSM addons but will that seriously save me from my own stupidity?
Yeah, I agree with this. It's an MMO, people expect a certain level of perpetual progress. This is the first time I know of where well geared people actually have both motivation and method to assist lower geared people, and to me that means a massive difference. Yeah, it's grindy, but it's also essentially optional, I always laughed at the people who super grinded AP when AK was below 15 because it was easy to see at AK 25 we'd all catch up quickly, which is just what happened. I'm not saying it's perfect, far from it, but the idea that being able to just grind mobs for AP would be better is insane to me, and the idea that having nothing at all is even worse. I'm sure we'll see something similar in every expansion going forward, as well we should. They've been talking about an idea like this dating all the way to path of the titans, and they finally put one in, so it should only get better as it gets tweaked in future patches and expansions.
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
You know after all this effort I spent today on Brewmaster, actually playing it through the artifact scenario I'm not sure if I really like it at all 
Maybe I'll just stick to Windwalker.
Maybe I'll just stick to Windwalker.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
yes, you can set a price per unit and it saves your settings.
jaundicejuice
Member
Disagree, I think it's a pretty badass looking mount that goes well with a couple of classes and transmogs. For example, a Warrior with the Blackrock plate set from the garrison warmill, some of the stuff you can farm from Blackrock Foundry or, if you're lucky enough, Plate of the Worldbreaker would look great with it.
You know after all this effort I spent today on Brewmaster, actually playing it through the artifact scenario I'm not sure if I really like it at all
Maybe I'll just stick to Windwalker.
Brm playstyle is so shit compared to what it used to be.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Welp looks like my semi hardcore raid guild is done as well.
jaundicejuice
Member
What they did with Glyphs in Legion is kind of dumb. Before they had a functional interface that contained a list of every glyph you had or could gain and now there's nothing.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I forget they exist.
I dunno why they didn't keep the interface. I get the reusing thing, because that lets inscriptionists keep a flow of money but...yeah.
jaundicejuice
Member
It's clunky as fuck, if you had every glyph, they're just gone. Even how they're applied in the spellbook isn't always clear. I had to google where Glyph of Luminous Charger was applied. Even though it's a minor glyph from the old system that was usable at 25, I have to apply it to Heart of the Crusader, which is a level 44 passive ability. There's no tool tip to indicate this. In the old system, once I bought the glyph it was simply available in the glyph interface, available to be re-applied to another spec if it was usable cross-spec. Now they're consumables I have to buy and apply to each spec.
It's like no thought or effort was put in when they gutted major and minor glyphs.
It's like no thought or effort was put in when they gutted major and minor glyphs.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
so are the fire mage bonuses for nighthold. HOrrendous.
Moff
Member
really? I think the 2 piece bonus is really strong, it's basically a guaranteed crit every 2nd fireball cast. Makes me wonder if crit is still the strongest stat and not int now
It depends. Crit is king until around 45% crit and after that it gets very muddled. I had crit as my worst stat at around 50%, but then I got a few new pieces, my crit dropped to 45% and now its tied for my best stat.
So in short: sim it.
I know that's the 'right answer', but the whole mantra of Legion with the way secondary stats have such an emphasis because of Rings and Necks... having to "sim it" to see if an item is an upgrade is absolutely poor game design.
I hang out in a couple class Discord channels, anytime someone says "Hey I just got ______ is it any good over _____?", they just get flooded with "Sim it!" responses.
I shouldn't have to rely on a third party tool to see if a piece of gear is an upgrade or not, or to see if some secondary stat is better or not. The stats required should be fairly intuitive based on the spell tooltips.
Tbh, none of this matters if you don't do hard content and calculating your stats has been the expectation ever since theorycrafting really started. Even then, you can generally go with the bigger ilvl = better rule. The simming comes in when you have breakpoints you need to gear around, or when you're trying to figure out how much the ilvl needs to go up before suboptimal secondaries are worth it.
cartographer
Member
I wish. For some of the specs I play, ilvl is a decent indicator. But for my Outlaw:
Number is the ilvl of the ring to pair with my Sephuz. The 890 even has my best stat on it (Vers), it's just paired with my current worst (haste). The 855 has haste and crit (second best stat), and the 865 crit and vers.
Also the 855 is Melandrus, so there's that. My bank has some 870-880s that are worse than the 855, too.
Jewelry sort of compunds the issue though. It's more like 20-25 ilvl for gear with agility on it for secondaries to not matter, at least in my experience.
I might be able to use that 890 eventually if I drop a lot of haste, which is going to be hard since the two legendaries I use have haste on them. But by that point I'll probably just have an 890 that isn't poopy.
Dog Problems
Banned
Yeah, that glyph menu is one of the things I miss the most. I don't even bother with glyphs anymore, mostly because I don't like having to buy them multiple times for the different specs. And the removal of some useful glyphs such as spirit wolves healing really sucks, too.
For the entire history of this game, there have only been two options with gear:
1. Base stats are so important that higher ilvl is always best, just equip that gear.
2. Your class has one secondary stat that is way better than others, or variable stat weights as you hit breakpoints, so you have to sim every piece of gear to see if it is an upgrade.
The idea that secondary stats can be intuitive such that you can tell if an item is an upgrade despite being an ilvl downgrade is crazy, the math is WAY too complicated for that. The only way it would ever be that you don't have to sim to tell if an item is an upgrade is if they balance base stats to be worth so much more than secondaries that you just look at that and nothing else. How would you want the tooltips to be worded such that, for example, you could easily tell that 500 crit 500 int 100 ilvl is better than 600 haste 600 int 110 ilvl? What could it say in that situation that would possibly allow you to tell without simming which of those pieces is better?
You've always had to rely on 3rd party stuff to determine upgrades, since TBC when simcraft came out. It was just less widespread and people cared less about min-maxing back then. No different than in WotLK, where you had some classes scaling so well with ArPen that they had to sim every piece to tell what ilvl difference was worth dropping ArPen, or in Cata when you had to use a calculator every piece of gear to find optimal reforgings. These days, there is a website that you can put the two pieces in that automatically sims it and tells you which is better, it couldn't be easier to compare items now versus what it was before, telling someone to "sim it" is really not that difficult.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Is padaswans lucky charm any good? My fire mage set up is:
870 horn of valor
875 Fury of the Burning sky
But I have an 880 padaswans charm trinket(1700 int, 480ish crit/haste/mastery).
...is there a mobile simcraft site?
870 horn of valor
875 Fury of the Burning sky
But I have an 880 padaswans charm trinket(1700 int, 480ish crit/haste/mastery).
...is there a mobile simcraft site?
There is a website that will run sims with two different pieces of gear, but I can't find it now when I search, I had it open for the past month but just recently closed it hah. It was some grey and yellow site, was simple to use but no clue what it was called.
Edit:
Aha yes this is exactly the site I was thinking of!
If you are refering to raidbots, yes. It uses the latest nightly build of simcraft.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
So raidbots...I dont get how it works? You pull up character info, then you select the piece you want to try out(in this case Horn of Valor is in slot 1, and I put the trinkets I test out in slot 2, and only put them there?)
Is that right
Then afterwards it shows the expected dps from your current gear, and above/below it the trinkets you test out in combination with that gear?
Is that right
Then afterwards it shows the expected dps from your current gear, and above/below it the trinkets you test out in combination with that gear?
With the way they work now I don't think they need to dedicate an entire interface to them. However, I do agree that the tooltip should specify the spell the glyph is applied to.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I'm still wondering if there's some kind of reason they don't make Slice and Dice competitive when its pretty clear most Rogue players actively dislike the RTB RNG playstyle. It's even worse considering SnD has an opportunity cost to take because you can't take MfD. I mean, Slice and Dice would legitimately be a better talent if it did nothing but give you True Bearing and nothing else every time you rolled.
Also, I got Acherus Drapes on my DK alt and my first thought was "I wish it was Prydaz" because Prydaz basically does the same kind of shit, except I don't have to keep shelling out money to keep Prydaz gemmed and enchanted.
Also, I got Acherus Drapes on my DK alt and my first thought was "I wish it was Prydaz" because Prydaz basically does the same kind of shit, except I don't have to keep shelling out money to keep Prydaz gemmed and enchanted.
Its pretty straightforward. Just put your region, realm and character name where it says. If you are wearing one of the items you want to compare, you don't have to put it in, the base sim will use that item (so if you're currently wearing the Horn of Valor, only put in Fury of the Burning Sky where it says item name). Make sure to adjust the ilvl of the item and gems etc, then below set your fight parameters (Patchwerk for ST, "add cleave" for some AoE). Hit "compare items" and wait a bit. The first line will be your base sim, with what you have equipped. Below that will be how the sim changes for each item you put in the list.
It is a better tool for ST than AoE, but still super easy way to compare 2 items.