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Metroid: Samus Returns |OT| What's past is prologue.

NeoBob688

Member
Up to Area 3 right now. Great game. I love how it is able to build such a strong atmosphere within the confinements of the platform. Also, I appreciate that they didn't dump down the level complexity. I haven't felt like this since playing Prime 2.
 

mrkgoo

Member
Reading this word being back-applied to an actual Metroid game grinds my gears.
Lol me too.

I mean I hate the term anyway (what's so wrong with "Metroid-style" or if you really want to include castlevania, Metroid/Castlevania-style" or just go for adventure play former), but saying a metroid game as being of that style seems kind of redundant.
 

Gartooth

Member
Fuck that spider in Fusion, it's the only boss in the series that I consistently have trouble beating.



Hold on, they actually take damage from missiles? One thing that bothered me is that many robotic enemies seemed to take damage from beams and missiles but never died, so I thought the game was messing with me lol.



I dunno, man, I think one thing this game was pretty good at was subtly hinting uses for your new abilities. Whenever you got something new, the number of a particular kind or puzzle would increase near the area where you got it, and this was true for the power bombs and those layouts too. I
noticed that the space between the spikes hinted at the use of morph ball too,
so it didn't take me too long.

Also, it was optional anyway, so 8 think it's fine they didn't spell it out. Imagine trying to wrap your head around the shinespark puzzles in Zero Mission without having played Super before.

I wouldn't have had too much of a problem with it if the game provided at least a hint about it. In context it makes sense that
a more powerful morph ball bomb would launch Samus further than a normal one. But because its a scarce resource I was discouraged from using one to find that out.
 

Serge85

Member
Finished the game on normal 100%, 12:00 hours.....what a GREAT game!!! loved it!!

I hope it sells well.... I want another 2d metroid!!
 
Just finished it. I loved it. Not sure how I would rank but it was way longer than I expected. Was pleased that
Ridley showed up
. Hoping for more 2d Metroid
 
Just finished it. I loved it. Not sure how I would rank but it was way longer than I expected. Was pleased that
Ridley showed up
. Hoping for more 2d Metroid

OMG! I had played AM2R before firing this up, and I reached
the queen Metroid
yesterday. I died on purpose, thinking that I needed to backtrack and find all the hidden items before finishing the game, thinking that Samus Returns would end the same way.. Came in here and read your spoiler, and now I'm sad, because I spoiled myself.

V_V
 

tesqui

Member
I've played this game twice now and am still thinking about it. This is definitely going to be one of the games I replay every year or so. I hope this sells well so we get more!
 
Finished the game a couple of days ago. My quick thoughts:

The good: the gameplay and overall gamefeel. IMO, this should be pretty much the gameplay template for 3D Metroid from now on, asides for some minor complaints on changing weapons and things like that (which are mostly hardware things). I love the 360 aiming, and it opens up a lot in terms of bosses and combat. The counter thing was okay, but I feel like there was some overeliance on it. Traversal feels fantastic, as it should on metroid games. The bosses were REALLY fun, and the feeling from getting absolutely wrecked on first try to slowly figuring them out was great. However, I feel like the game ended up having
not enough bosses, aside from metroid miniboss encounters.

the bad: The overall level design. I feel Mercury Steam isn't quite there yet when it comes to Metroid's level design greatness, and when the areas aren't linear, the backtracking feels forced. It was ok for most of the game, but some instances were annoying.

The ugly: Overall aesthetics of the game, meaning art and sound. Now, this is somewhat of a paradoxical point, since not only I liked the artstyle they went for (I'm a sucker for low poly 3D games), and I've found this game to be the best use of 3D in the 3DS yet. It is mostly a matter of wasted potential. For some reason, most of the areas have really boring backgrounds, that are mostly based on a few colors, and which get very repetitive after a while. Which is weird, because they show in later areas that when they want to make a great background design, they can, but for some reason most of the game doesn't have it. Enemy design, also, is very boring and repetitive. The music is simply forgetable, but that must be most a sin of Metroid II in general, than Samus Return's fault.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Even though it's super repetitive I actually kinda like chewing through a large count of Metroid evolutions. There's an enjoyable (if perhaps overly stretched) feedback loop in fighting various stages and, more importantly, becoming stronger via gear and more attuned to attack powers. This is especially true later on, where I remember first encounters with some evolutions being quite tough, but now kinda routine. I find the sense of power and progress decently rewarding, especially given the motif of the bug hunt.
 
Having never played much of Metroid 2 before now, I find how it explores the metroids as a species fascinating.

Did anything other than the classic metroid larva ever show up in any later game? I can't think of any, though I didn't play much of Other M...
Edit: Oh Fusion had something towards the end, though that wouldn't have been the real deal.
 

MoonFrog

Member
Having never played much of Metroid 2 before now, I find how it explores the metroids as a species fascinating.

Did anything other than the classic metroid larva ever show up in any later game? I can't think of any, though I didn't play much of Other M...
Fusion has an Omega too.

Prime games have alternate evolutions like the hunter Metroids.
 

Opa-Pa

Member
Having never played much of Metroid 2 before now, I find how it explores the metroids as a species fascinating.

Did anything other than the classic metroid larva ever show up in any later game? I can't think of any, though I didn't play much of Other M...
Edit: Oh Fusion had something towards the end, though that wouldn't have been the real deal.

You don't exactly fight them, but they have clones of the entire evolutionary line sans the "special" one in Fusion aside from the Omega battle. Also Other M has a pretty cool one as a major boss.
 

Nelo Ice

Banned
Seeing people complain about sore thumbs and cramps again... There is help that only costs a couple of dollars or euros, makes all the difference in the world and makes the 3DS super comfortable to hold: get a grip

I have no idea how I played my 3DS XL for years without a grip. It's making the bottom half of my hori duraflex case useless since I have the grip on like 100% of the time. Sucks I can't use the case with the grip since otherwise I only put it on when I use my carrying case. I got the latest model of the cyber gadget and would highly recommend it. It's been mentiond a few times already. Granted it's more expensive now. I bought it from another seller off Amazon for $16.99 and now it's $25.49.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01KWUNRV6/?tag=neogaf0e-20
 
Finished it today as well with 100% at around 12 hours, while I have similar thoughts as others about the early game. I thought that the bottom portion of the game more than made up for it.

(Late/end game spoilers)
A new boss during the first 1/3 of the game would have really helped. I loved the grinder and Ridley fights and it's just a shame they came so late in the game. A new early boss would have really spruced things up a bit.

One thing I really loved was the cut scene choreography of the Ridley fight. MS deservers some kudos for that. Watching baby Metroid chomp on Ridley and Samus doing acrobatics was a blast.

I also loved the mechanics of the grinder fight and how it integrated the morph ball into the encounter. The encounter design of both the grinder and Ridley fights were top notch, each with their own phases and unique attacks per phase. I thought the Queen was good but a little bit lacking compared to the other two.
 

Kindekuma

Banned
Finished the game at 100%. Just under 10 hours too.

I loved it, it's great to see Metroid come back to life and in such good form too. I have more positive things to say about this game rather than negatives. It's a very solid title. The gameplay is solid, visuals (and 3D) are great, bosses are fun, music while mostly remixes and straight rips from other games is still good. The sense of exploration is fantastic, and that's a more important thing here. I first had a bit of trouble adjusting to the controls. I'm more accustomed to Fusion/Zero Missions shooting style, and often wound up mashing A on accident out of habit.

The counter mechanic is an interesting addition, it works. But without it, enemies just seem to be more bullet sponge and take a few second(s) more to kill without countering. But getting free hits and a really cool action sequence when it comes to countering Metroids is so satisfying, but for regular enemies it's hit or miss. I wish Ice Beam had more uses than just the "Anti-Metroid weapon". Being able to free enemies to make platforms at first could have been used a bit more as a mechanic before the space jump/spring ball but that's just me.

Looking forward for what comes next in terms of Metroids and any more future titles from MercurySteam. They really nailed this one.

Oh and lastly: M:SR>AM2R>M2RoS.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
The production quality is really very good. I'm not crazy fond of the art direction, but I put that partially down to going full 3D assets with the 3DS's severely limited hardware, and the chosen colour palette. But the backgrounds are nicely detailed and the animation quality is superb. I just looks and feels good to land out of a screw attack and immediately launch into manual aim, Samus' pose and firing angle relative to the direction she landed. Little things like her changing to a more assertive footing stance when firing and aiming versus standard exploration are nice too.
 

Celine

Member
The production quality is really very good. I'm not crazy fond of the art direction, but I put that partially down to going full 3D assets with the 3DS's severely limited hardware, and the chosen colour palette. But the backgrounds are nicely detailed and the animation quality is superb. I just looks and feels good to land out of a screw attack and immediately launch into manual aim, Samus' pose and firing angle relative to the direction she landed. Little things like her changing to a more assertive footing stance when firing and aiming versus standard exploration are nice too.
I'm only at area 2 but it's evident that MercurySteam has choosen a bright (garish?) color palette in an effort to keep at a minimum ghosting in stereoscopic 3D.
Overall I'd say SR is one of the better utilization of stereoscopic 3D on 3DS, it looks good and natural without feeling forced.
It helps that the framerate is smooth and constant contrary of Castlevania MoF.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Wrapped up with 100% items. Want to keep thoughts brief.

+ Despite using the pad the controls felt great to me. Manual aiming in particular felt seamless and satisfying.
+ Satisfying combat visuals, audio, and feedback.
+ Great boss fight design, with exception to some of the one-two-punch repetition. Mercury Steam did a great job with the climax.
+ Generally decent if maybe a bit too linear level design. Okay optional upgrade puzzles.
+ Aeon abilities fairly well implemented into progression and combat bonuses. Stuff like the radar add sensible accessibility without breaking the challenge.
+ Personally I really like the atmosphere of moving deeper and deeper into the planet on a genocidal bug hunt, and the sense of discovery shifting into power as you face and conquer various Metroid evolutions.
+ Happy with the overall visual presentation namely due to the clean aesthetic, attractive background details, and impressive stereoscopic depth.

- Optional gear expansions kinda made redundant due to infrequent use in mainline exploration and combat anyway.
- Enemy variety wears thin as the game progresses, repeating itself with stronger, different colour variants.
- An extra original boss or two would have helped break up the repetition.
- Don't feel the cave diving horror and darkness was conveyed as well as I would have liked.
- Music wasn't totally poor, and had some strong highs, but overall just seemed to be missing...something. Couple of dull, generic video-game-music tracks in there.
- Some areas perhaps unnecessarily big, mainly the big open caverns.
- 3DS control pad and device in general is an ergonomic nightmare.

I'd be lying if I said I felt the game design, namely the level layouts, pacing, structure and implementation of gear as a means of progression and puzzle solving, was the best it could be. I feel Mercury Steam aren't quite there. And some slips in production, mainly the music and enemy variety, diminish the impact of the production as a whole.

But what's here still impressed me immensely, half because Metroid really felt dead after Other M and Nintendo's unusual ambivalence to what should have been an obvious remake (Metroid II) and continuation of at the very least the traditional design, and half because Mercury Steam's output has not been to my taste. I've liked literally nothing they've made until now. So for them to pull off a very faithful Metroid title, successfully reinventing the original Metroid II while retaining traditionalism, and injecting enough of their own original ideas and flair to make it feel fresh. That's worthy of praise and admiration.

For me to sit and put in hours of play during a single sitting and completely lose track of time, while pursuing absolute 100% items first run, without ever really feeling tedium or frustration. To do all of this willing is to me the sign of a very satisfying Metroid game.

I'd be more than confident with the team getting another crack and the series, if they're up to it. I don't feel Super or Fusion need to be remade; they still both play exceptionally well. Give them Metroid 5 / Dread.

I'm only at area 2 but it's evident that MercurySteam has choosen a bright (garish?) color palette in an effort to keep at a minimum ghosting in stereoscopic 3D.
Overall I'd say SR is one of the better utilization of stereoscopic 3D on 3DS, it looks good and natural without feeling forced.
It helps that the framerate is smooth and constant contrary of Castlevania MoF.

Yeah, I agree. Bright colour palette equates to clear readability and minimal stereo ghosting. In motion and with depth it looks quite lovely.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
I have no idea how I played my 3DS XL for years without a grip.

It's too bad we need one in the first place (DSi felt great to hold), but yeah it makes a world of difference. A game like DKCR actually made me cramp up quite a bit, but I can see myself replaying that now to see the difference. Same with Kid Icarus.

Little things like her changing to a more assertive footing stance when firing and aiming versus standard exploration are nice too.

Yeah her different poses in this game are great. I'm definitely in the camp that loves free aiming.
 

Golnei

Member
It's a small detail, but the single pixel targeting pointer aligning with the 3DS screen's scanlines when facing directly horizontally is a nice effect.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
Finally at long last I have the longingly awaited PLASMA BEAM NOW EVERYTHING CAN DIE MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh and I got the Gravity suit as well now I fear no water or lava, kinda tempted to backtrack and get the items but I will wait till I get the screw attack and power bomb and do it all in one go, this could actually be the first Metroid game where I actually could 100% it.

Otherwise I don't have much left of the game to go.

touch screen works as the morph ball button

Which is fine when exploring but it was a pain when I was
being chased by the driller robot
as the control is just not set up for that which led to a lot of frustration when Saums would die, though thankfully they had the grace to add checkpoints rather than forcing the players to do it all in one go again.
 

Teggy

Member
So I am in area 6 now and fighting the new Metroid form there. I feel like I am having one of those “I played the entire game without realizing...” moments. For all the metroids all I see doing damage is the ice beam. So for all the bosses I do ice beam while avoiding attacks and then melee counter with rockets, repeat until dead. Does anything else damage the metroids? Nothing else seems to give any damage feedback!
 
Finally at long last I have the longingly awaited PLASMA BEAM NOW EVERYTHING CAN DIE MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh and I got the Gravity suit as well now I fear no water or lava, kinda tempted to backtrack and get the items but I will wait till I get the screw attack and power bomb and do it all in one go, this could actually be the first Metroid game where I actually could 100% it.

Otherwise I don't have much left of the game to go.



Which is fine when exploring but it was a pain when I was
being chased by the driller robot
as the control is just not set up for that which led to a lot of frustration when Saums would die, though thankfully they had the grace to add checkpoints rather than forcing the players to do it all in one go again.

At risk of spoiling,
I'd wait even longer than that to start your backtrack run unless you mind backtracking multiple times
.
 

Hylian7

Member
At risk of spoiling,
I'd wait even longer than that to start your backtrack run unless you mind backtracking multiple times
.

Yeah, unless you really think you need more Energy Tanks/Missiles/Super Missiles/Aeion/Power Bombs, hold off on the backtracking for items.
 

NolbertoS

Member
JUST started playing yesterday and havinfg a blast. Seems abit easier though in difficulty compared to the orginal GB game. Also doesn’t help that I finished the GB game around the time they announced the remake and surprisingly its all fresh in my mind, the levels, bosses. Other than that need more Metroid in my blood, can’t wait for Prime 4 next year or so.
 

mcfrank

Member
Just finished man some of those boss fights are very unforgiving, but it feels great when you get them down. Loved the end.
 

Simbabbad

Member
I'm a huge Metroid II: Return of Samus fan, the game being my favourite 2D Metroid. I know it's not a popular opinion, but it actually has nothing to do with nostalgia since I first played Super Metroid, then Metroid (NES) as a bonus in Metroid Prime, then Return of Samus, then Fusion and Zero Mission.

I said this about the game in another thread:

Metroid II is IMO a jewel, a masterpiece, and it's my favourite 2D Metroid game. It's a bold game that is more "Metroid" than any other game in the series, and is wholly unique.

See how 2D Metroid mazes are mostly composed of straight vertical and horizontal lines, long corridors and long shafts? Well, Metroid II throws that out of the windows in favour of weird, alien but natural-looking caves with convoluted surfaces, with crumbling, silted, millennia-old chozo ruins in the middle of them. That means this game is the Metroid game with the biggest sense of exploration and discovery, because the layout is always unexpected, unpredictable, fresh.

There is nothing straight, clean or modern in Metroid II, there is nothing suggesting any sentient being was there less than centuries ago. In a sense, it's the most "realistic" of the series, with little to none shiny SF elements. It's very lovecraftian.

The Game Boy limitations are exploited brilliantly. The sprites are big and detailed, which in turn makes the visible area around Samus small, but it works amazingly well for the game since it gives you the feeling to be able to only see a tiny luminous area around you, in the middle of infinite and hostile blackness forever devoid of sunlight, since everything is located underground, going deeper and deeper into the forgotten abysses. The soundtrack is pure genius, with strange sounds and melodies reminding you of "Forbidden Planet".

The theme of the game, finding and killing every Metroid, is chilling. Sinister clues can be found, the Metroids mutating into bigger and bigger, weirder and weirder monsters, leaving deformed shells behind. The game even plays with your nerves: you may cross an area and see nothing, then go back and see a shell, meaning that a Metroid just mutated there into an abomination for your to fight.

The whole game reminds you of the alien ship sequence in ALIEN. It's a marvel.

So why isn't it more liked? For the same reason it's a jewel of gameplay and level design: it's a maze game, a game that stands on your sense of orientation. It's much more fair than the original Metroid because the areas don't all look like each other, and there aren't cheap, invisible secret passages, but as said above, the layout is really, really convoluted, weird and big, you feel lost in the entire game, and of course there isn't an automap.
But here's the genius: you don't need a map. The game is complex, but the action always takes place in a reasonably sized area: the idea here is a main path is blocked by lava, when you kill enough Metroids, their queen/mother gets mad, moves, and causes a mini earthquake that lowers the lava, allowing you to continue (BTW, that means Fusion wasn't the first Metroid game to intelligently guide the player to accommodate to handheld gaming). That means you have to use your memory, brain and sense of deduction (not to mention platforming) to explore and find different powerups and Metroids without a map, but the goal is manageable, it's extremely well balanced, especially since the game gives you the tools to do it: the spider ball is here brilliantly used, the whole game revolves around it, and obviously the space jump plays here a much more important role that in any other game.

Unfortunately, nowadays, a game that requires a good sense of orientation and even stands on the ability to locate yourself and guess/deduce where unexplored area and hidden stuff are, is a game that is automatically labelled "archaic". People will immediately ramble about "remakes" and "automaps", without understanding that such decisions would miss what Metroid II is all about.

Best. Metroid. Ever.
So, I was therefore very cautious about Samus Returns since I knew it obviously would have an automap, and much more powerups and therefore would be much more linear since it'd have more areas blocked by powerup acquisition... I feared a remake would make a very unique episode into yet another Super Metroid clone...

But after beating the game 100%, I'm actually extremely pleased with the result. The game has issues, but it has the main quality of being NEW despite being a remake, trying new, bold things: the 360° aiming, the Aeon abilities, the counter move, the way boss battles are managed, all those are pretty clever and are managed excellently or decently. I was afraid that after the Other M hysteria (I love that game) Nintendo would be too afraid to experiment with Metroid in general and 2D Metroid in particular (frankly, I thought the 2D series did nothing really interesting after Super Metroid), and I'm happy to be proven wrong.

Quickly:

+ The unusual level design of Metroid II is still there, with extremely huge caves and weird room shapes, breaking the "grid" aspect of other 2D Metroid games.
+ Despite the automap, the game is so huge and unusually shaped that the "I feel completely lost" aspect of Metroid II is still there.
+ Boss battles are great.
+ I love the Aeon abilities, including the sounding revealing the breakable blocks - the game has been designed with this in mind, it fastens the pace and is well balanced. I like that the others are optional for combat, allowing different battling styles. I hope we'll see more of those powers.
+ The game is really beautiful in 3D thanks to the backgrounds, which are extremely detailed and tell a story.
+ I love the tough difficulty, which is perfect IMO.
+ I love that the "weird sound effect" soundtrack is still there.
+ The counter move is interesting, especially in boss battles.
+ Samus is a dream to move around, I'm so glad the "Samus is a ninja" concept introduced in Other M lives on.

- The counter can be somewhat annoying with standard enemies, though, making the game a bit repetitive: for every enemy, wait for it to flash, press the button, then blast. It makes different patterns too same-y.
- An OBVIOUS flaw: not enough different enemies. It's really weird there is SO LITTLE different enemies in the game, the game going as far as using palette swaps.
- Not a fan of the reused tracks for heated areas or the "jungle" area (the Maridia track is used, right)?
- The backgrounds are pretty, but they're always very bright and coloured and open, and while playing you don't notice them all that much. The darkness and claustrophobia of the original game is lost, which is a shame.
- The backgrounds are pretty and varied, but the foreground/play area is mostly composed of the same dirt/rock textures and blocky shapes, making the game feel too repetitive visually. The foreground variety should match the background. It's ironic that the original Metroid II on Game Boy feels much more organic and varied and alien and creepy.
- Among the reasons why I prefer NES Metroid and Metroid II to Super Metroid, there's the "labelled block" cliché. Like, you fire on a block and then a tiny label appears: "nope, you can only destroy this block with _______". In Samus Returns, blocks must be SPECIFICALLY destroyed by bombs, missiles, super missiles, screw attack or power bombs and nothing else. This cliché is so artificial and so annoying, it immediately takes me out of the game, especially now that Axiom Verge or Environmental Station Alpha proved you didn't need it to make a terrific Metroid game.

All in all this is a great new addition to the 2D series. I'm really happy of the direction apparently taken story-wise, too, I hope we see more of Metroid mutations and the X.
 

simonshinra

Neo Member
This is where I'm at, too. I can't even work out how to hurt him
beyond bombing his arms. After that I can't work out how to damage him. I fire missiles into is suction whirlwind but it does nothing!

Use the morph ball bombs when he does the suction attack
, it took me a while to realize it.
 

ghibli99

Member
Although my interest/enthusiasm was starting to fade around Area 3, I'm a few more areas in, and I'm having the best time. Some of these upgrades have really made the game a joy to traverse, and I can't wait until I'm fully powered up so that I can expose the rest of the map and collect everything I've missed or couldn't access. As someone who has only ever finished Zero Mission, I have to say that this has really sparked my interest in the series, and Super Metroid is gonna have to be next... time to dust off my Wii U since I bought it there years ago.
 
Thanks guys
I had tried the Morph Balls Bombs before but I think I was just letting them go too far away from the suction. Now I just need to figure out the fuzzy blue head phase!
 

Teggy

Member
So I am in area 6 now and fighting the new Metroid form there. I feel like I am having one of those ”I played the entire game without realizing..." moments. For all the metroids all I see doing damage is the ice beam. So for all the bosses I do ice beam while avoiding attacks and then melee counter with rockets, repeat until dead. Does anything else damage the metroids? Nothing else seems to give any damage feedback!

nvm, I did some more experimenting and beat that guy. Now I am on the
crazy drill boss
 

Timeaisis

Member
How many areas are in this game? I *feel* halfway through, but I'm only at
Area 3...or maybe 4 can't remember. Whichever one requires you to get like 16 Metroids
 
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