It's not that fucked up once you see that Darkside agreed to the scope changes without a budget increase and bet they'd be able to secure more funding after the fact.
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Microsoft mismanagement ofthird party partnerships leaving developers in a bad state?
- Thread starter nynt9
- Start date
It's not that fucked up once you see that Darkside agreed to the scope changes without a budget increase and bet they'd be able to secure more funding after the fact.
Citation needed.
Exactly. Let's not also forget that Sony also pulled the plug on a ton of studios last year and left the devs of Rime twisting in the wind.
All three console manufacturers have their cold business side.
I like Microsoft exclusives more than I like Playstation exclusives.
So I'd love to hear you apply this logic to me. I was 100% PC gaming until Gears of War.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Sure. During the PS2 era, the console with the overwhelming lion's share of the market was able to have such a large install base and mindshare that devs were guaranteed that a niche existed for their title if it was a good game. So the PS2 had a vast array of smaller and mid-budgeted titles which filled a variety of niches. This is, incidentally, why PC gaming is such an indie haven.
The PS4 is going to have a similar dominance this gen, and we are seeing a dramatic return of otherwise economically infeasible niche titles. The return of the JRPG to home consoles after years of exile on 3DS and Vita is just one example of this.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
The PS4 owes a lot to the 360.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
I feel like the story isn't as exciting if you mention that part.
Probably why the OP left it out.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Are we really seeing a dramatic return of JRPGs to home consoles?
Pathfinder
Member
And PSN owes a lot to Xbox Live.
ChosenPredator
Banned
there needs to always be third, i hate cocky sony, i like sony that is on its toes.
petran79
Banned
360 owes a lot to the Dreamcast
ROUGE_BLOCK
Member
How?
What does the 360 possibly owe the Dreamcast?
So gaming sucked last gen because Microsoft had success and JRPGs were most on handhelds?
Okay bro. That's some objective criteria you have there. What if someone enjoys more variety?
Mass_Pincup
Banned
What were they supposed to do when the cancellation of this project would mean laying of all employees?
Team Andromeda
Member
Platinum games have been incompetent; They had 4 years millions from MS and still they couldn't deliver or even come close to giving us a release date after 4 years, so sorry the buck stops with them. Always thought the corp was way overrated, much like their games and it's not like their games sell systems anyway. MS should have stayed with FromSoftware after their brilliant workings on the original Xbox.
You name any major corp with 4 years of development and millions spent, that would be ready to put yet more money into the project with no release date and members of the team off on the sick
Papacheeks
Banned
Bioshock infinite? Which bankrupt the studio? Had to have outside source Rod from Epic to help get the game gold to ship?
Even then the game was cut down from what it was originally and that was not 2k's fault that was Ken levine changing game mechincs and design strats mid production. There was talks for vita version and they even were given an extension before Rod came in to add multiplayer which they couldn't get working. They were a straight up money pit to 2k. PG doesn't have a track record of A. costing a lot in terms of their work force and the time frame at which they can release a game. B They've shipped multiple games some multiplatform, some exclusive on many consoles without issues till this point.
So something has changed in what or how they were developing this game for them to have such strain and stress to deliver.
Cherry Picking? LOL. I posted an official statement from Sony, you've inked me an opinion piece. And speaking about NPD's, PSABR was one of the few titles at the time which had a simultaneous BRD and PSN release. It maintained placings on the PSN best seller's lists even after release. That's something no other fighting game this generation has managed to do whether it be SFV, Guity Gear, Blazblue, KOFXIV, or Injustice. But yeah, let's keep blaming Superbot while Sony remains completely innocent for all their layoffs.
And Scalbound's fact about having official trailers released doesn't change the situation at all. This thread is about how Scalebound's cancellation leaves developers in bad states. That's exactly what happened with Stig's team after the cancellation whether it was shown to the public or not. 50+ developers lost their jobs because of this. That's the fact. And also on that note, just because it wasn't shown to the public doesn't mean the game wasn't in a playable state. Thanks to NeoGAF's own MamaRobotnik there's proof of that with his research on Square's Dead Sun, a cancelled game that was never shown to the public. Your pretense about Stig's IP being in a worse state of development than Scalebound is your own speculation.
Being off-white.
I think honestly more transparency is required. Here we are, pointing fingers and blaming either side with no real understanding of what happened.
I do know this - Kamiya's projects for me have always been incredible. His character action games have some of the best combat mechanics ever created. Platinum's style can not be understated. The cancellation of this game really does sadden me- more so for the fact that their team dedicated four years to a project that will never see a release. I can understand that Microsoft needed milestones to be reached and felt like the game cost too much, but I don't get how it could be touted in so much promotional spotlight, given demo stage presentations and then be eliminated after so much time.
Whatever happens here, I hope Platinum lands on their feet. I think in a lot of ways this is the nail in the coffin for partnership between funding big projects for Japanese developers on the Xbox console. We got some real gems last gen - Lost Oddyssey, Blue Dragon and the exclusivity clause of Vesperia. But those days seem over, and I don't imagine many developers or studios from Japan will have opportunities or be willing to be funded to pursue new projects. But who knows.
I do know this - Kamiya's projects for me have always been incredible. His character action games have some of the best combat mechanics ever created. Platinum's style can not be understated. The cancellation of this game really does sadden me- more so for the fact that their team dedicated four years to a project that will never see a release. I can understand that Microsoft needed milestones to be reached and felt like the game cost too much, but I don't get how it could be touted in so much promotional spotlight, given demo stage presentations and then be eliminated after so much time.
Whatever happens here, I hope Platinum lands on their feet. I think in a lot of ways this is the nail in the coffin for partnership between funding big projects for Japanese developers on the Xbox console. We got some real gems last gen - Lost Oddyssey, Blue Dragon and the exclusivity clause of Vesperia. But those days seem over, and I don't imagine many developers or studios from Japan will have opportunities or be willing to be funded to pursue new projects. But who knows.
Usually the benefit of going to a first party publisher is that they can take these kinds of hits and still keep on trucking.
Papacheeks
Banned
According to this source also posted by Event Hubs it did really bad in Japan.
Again according to gaf it did poorly.
So looking at how it did in Japan and how it ranked 38th getting beat by a shitty Family guy game in UK. It doesn't say this game did well. Regardless if it was on the top charts of PSN.
Where did I say anything about blaming superbot? The game was good, but didn't do well? Sperbot I believe was an off-shoot of Sony Santa monica developers.
Bits N Pieces
Member
Team Andromeda
Member
Really What happened with Mother 3 on the N64 and Jungle Emperor Leo on the N64 from Nintendo.
SONY :What Happened to Getway 3 , The Agency or that sci-fi open world four in the making years from Santa Monica
Square what happened to The Legacy of Kain Dead Sun , that was 3 years in the making ?.
Dear God man before you're going to post drivel , at least try and do a bit of research
I'm not saying they haven't cancelled games (of course they have). I'm just saying they've also kept troubled projects alive for 4 years or longer.
I'm sure Microsoft had good reasons to cancel the game.
petran79
Banned
Sega showed Microsoft how to make a proper console.
SprachBrooks
Member
Wrong: http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/rime-dev-explains-split-sony/
Also, which studios? Evolution? The studio that monumentally fucked up the release of Driveclub? That Sony, themselves continued to support for a long time and had to close the studio, as opposed to funding third-parties and causing them to close because of unreasonable demands, like MS did?
I mean, Earthbound 64/ Mother 3 had some development issues and Iwata even took it personally like he was to blame. It was supposed to use 64DD. That failed, so the title became a normal N64 title and was delayed a number of years. The major problem was they couldn't find a way to properly adapt everything they wanted to 3D, plus a lot of technical issues. It was cancelled in summer of 2000 as the Gamecube was coming around.
But the project was restarted for the GBA.
Even though the original project was cancelled they still made it.
But the project was restarted for the GBA.
Even though the original project was cancelled they still made it.
LOL, an American developed game does bad in Japan but tops PSN charts in North America and you think Japanese sales are a better representation of the game's performance. Gotcha.
ROUGE_BLOCK
Member
That went under, the original Xbox definitely had its connections but the 360 largely went the opposite direction of the original and largely became its own thing. I think it took more from what the PS2 did tbh.
Papacheeks
Banned
That's something I'd like to know too.
Fantasy Life, though a very different game is essentially the spiritual successor of it. I wanna know how it all came to be.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Microsoft to me are definitely the Sega of the home console space.
By that, I mean they're the only one willing to try and push the industry forward. At least in terms of everything not relating purely to games themselves.
Like Sega, Microsoft are at least willing to try stuff, sometimes even force it if they believe enough. Whether it's successful or not. At least Microsoft has the resources to survive the failures.
petran79
Banned
I think regarding the release of exclusive arcade games it was still influenced by the Dreamcast. Eg Dreamcast had online versions of fighting games (matching service).
Microsoft did well to release some good arcade titles in the West. Due to this circumstance GGPO was born.
TheAdmiester
Member
Surely this is a troll post?
It has to be.
There's literally no benefit to gaming if there's no competition and Sony is essentially handed a monopoly. Sony is bad enough when they're simply winning, I shudder to think of what they might be like in a monopoly.
Prototype Viktor
Member
Activision because most of the work would have been done that they wouldn't have paid for
runnin_blue
Banned
There were tons and tons of JRPGs on home consoles last gen. I've never looked into the numbers, but I'd wager there were way more than on current gen home consoles. Bit of revisionist history here methinks.
Stormblessed
Member
This doesn't really gel with the account we've been given of Jobs' conduct following Bungie's acquisition. We also know that there was intervention to prevent Microsoft destroying the studio's culture in the fashion they did to other studios historically.
Game development being so opaque tends to mean there is a very real limit to what we know about failed projects, but I lend more credence to the accounts we've had than any PR boilerplate we'll ultimately get from Microsoft.
The industry was arguably better than ever in the PS1 vs N64 days.
No, Saturn does not count.
Team Andromeda
Member
The game was canceled for the N64 and came out years later : who's to say that won't happen with Scalebound . Jungle Emperor Leo we never saw at all, despite NCL making a big deal of the game and we also never saw Mario 64 2 which NCL confirmed to EDGE was in development and working with 2 player support
All corps will now and again drop games .
Japanese developers would be better off without Microsoft in gaming, that seems certain. I remember the fiasco with Level-5, and now Platinum as well. Unless the Scorpio actually sells decently, I would expect the majority of Japanese developers to skip it completely.
And it isn't just Japanese companies as shown by this thread. When dealing with MS you'd better have good lawyers on your side... History has shown that much across all parts of the company
As for Japanese developers, they have the PS4, and a renewed Nintendo. They don't have to put up with Microsoft's heavy-handed practices anymore, and I expect that they won't. Already, the lack of Japanese support for the XB1 is astonishing, and I expect it to get worse. The real question will be the Indie support - you can't always treat your partners like crap, and expect loyalty in return.
And it isn't just Japanese companies as shown by this thread. When dealing with MS you'd better have good lawyers on your side... History has shown that much across all parts of the company
As for Japanese developers, they have the PS4, and a renewed Nintendo. They don't have to put up with Microsoft's heavy-handed practices anymore, and I expect that they won't. Already, the lack of Japanese support for the XB1 is astonishing, and I expect it to get worse. The real question will be the Indie support - you can't always treat your partners like crap, and expect loyalty in return.
Yeah sure it's unhealthy for a single country. But for a game made in under 3 years on multiple platforms with cross play and only enough budget to make an online mode + a single cutscene for every character offline the title was more than successful. And Sony themselves officially said so. But yeah let 1 week of physical data in 2 countries dictate your perception of its performance.
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Given that Gen 7 is comfortably the best generation ever to anyone not wearing rose coloured glasses, I'd argue Microsoft being a strong competitor is the best thing for the industry.
The 360 was the pioneer of the digital storefront
The 360 was the pioneer of a true operating system on a console
The 360 drove both Nintendo and Sony to up their controller game in Gen 8
The 360 is the reason the PS4 is what it is
The 360 ushered in the indie scene we now enjoy
Microsoft being strong is something all true gamers should absolutely want.
Almost indistinguishable, LMAO. Like they were between the Xbox One and PS4?
Back in OT - OP if you want to do a thread on companies getting burned from exclusive relations then list all the parterships that were good too, then you get some real retrospective. Here I'll help you.
Remedy - Alan Wake
Epic - Gears series
Ruffian - Crackdown
Playground - Horizon
Insomniac - Sunset OD
Bioware - KOTOR, Jade Empire
I can go in a bit, want me to do one for Sony and Nintendo too? My point is this happens everywhere. Yes I admit it is mismanagement in many cases and MS do need to get their shit together. But it doesn't warrant witch hunts in and on GAF. We're all adults.
Noted for clarity with bold numbers.
(1) I really don't understand how you can continue to think that failure to deliver on a contract can be understood without insight into the terms of the contract or the working relationship. Look at the most basic contract, a receipt for jeans or something like that. The return policy typically has conditions that apply to the seller and the consumer. It is not a one sided arrangement just because the money goes one way.
(2)This is irrelevant ad hominem bullshit that ignores their past ability to deliver. Show a track record of them failing in this regard and your take on Platinum may be relevant to the point you are trying to make.
(3)You are begging the question here by assuming that the corp was presented with no release date. It is as likely that the developer said, "we don't know when we can deliver this project because you have changed the scope." We simply don't know which way it went. I am not saying that MS should continue to fund the project, but only that we don't know why the project crashed and burned.
You do see corporations continue to dump money into projects without conceivable end, but rarely on the private side. Public investment can always raise revenue through taxes and infrastructure needs building, so the contracted provider typically has them by the balls. Bombardier and Toronto's streetcar revitalisation project is a good example.
Vol5
Member
You know I think after this week and all the news I've read I'm pretty sure the Scorpio will be a steam / windows hybrid embedded platform with MS making money from commission sales. This is the only conclusion I can read into everything that has gone on and this is how MS will keep the gaming division afloat.
Current lack of investor confidence in the division
Literally no news of any new games
Win10 cross play
Digitial only at the start of the generation
Slowly pulling development of games
Legacy XO support out of the box
Half-hearted Windows Store support
360 Controller support within Steam already
It's Microsoft. They are PC.
This makes sense to me. I think Valve and MS might have something big up their sleeve this E3. Happy to be proven wrong with a stellar line-up pulled straight out of their arse, but I can't see it. I think this honestly makes good sense when looking at the big picture (pun intended). Drip feed some games then get out of the publishing biz to make your money on commission.
Who's with me?