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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!

the irony of gaf being so fucking sensitive about low-level shit-talking while valiantly defending a heinous sexist is pretty mind blowing

I think if you're going to criticise someone for making stupid immature comments it's best to not do the same thing yourself. Aris probably thought what he was saying was just low level shit talking too.
 

obonicus

Member
I'm talking about him being about to GO to the tournament, if spooky doesn't want to let him on the mic thats fine. But he should be allowed to be there and have a good time. Lets say Evo does reach out to Big E and says Aris is banned you aren't allow to let him in, how they going to enforce it? What happens if its he shows up? You think Evo going take away an tournament from Big E? Alot of this stuff is easy to say but its would be difficult in practice. Remember Evo points don't mean anything so taking them away is worthless.

He can show up at the venue, sure. He can't be on mic, he can't compete for the prize. It's actually pretty simple. And it's not about Evo being the boss and telling other organizers what to do, it's about these people who are leaders of the community getting together and agreeing that certain behavior is unacceptable and establishing strong rules. Maybe Aris doesn't have to be an example; I don't think he's some horrible monster, and maybe there can be a moratorium for him (though again, I do think the Kayo Police thing is a prior).

Because that's what the FGC's defense has been all along! That the problems are not endemic to the community. I'm inclined to believe them, but they have to put in a good-faith showing that this is true. And a good-faith showing isn't just writing an editorial on SRK and pretending it's all resolved.
 

Dylan

Member
You can't just ban someone without a system and a reason.

Aris deserves at least one last chance to turn things around, and this is me saying that, and I consider his behavior completely unacceptable and I don't care if the FGC likes what I'm saying or not in this regard.

Feel free to disrespect the community though if it makes you feel better. I'd rather work on improving it.

That said, in future, I do think behavior of this sort should be punishable by bans from majors.

Hey, I don't know him. Maybe he's a sweetheart. Maybe he made a mistake. This could all be true.

But I don't know him, and I will likely never meet him. I'm not a part of the fighting game community, and I likely will never be.

But I do follow games media and I do use the internet, which probably makes me very typical of most people who are catching wind of the story right now. So if the last thing I hear about this incident is that nothing happened as a result, I'm going to come away with a very grotesque perception of the fighting game community.
 

Kusagari

Member
There is no way in hell he should be banned. Noel "Bionic Arm" Brown is still attending tournaments and he actually attacked someone.

I agree that he shouldn't be allowed on the mic, but calling for him to be banned from competing off this is absurd.
 
the problem is that all attempts to "learn" and "steer the community" seem to involve pretending nothing ever happened. maybe he learned from his mistakes! why invoke punishment when there was so much stress? live and let live, gang!

the "what now" portion of the discussion needs to revolve on what exactly needs to be done to stop this from happening again. and as with racism or any other example of bigotry, what needs to be done is shame and consequences.

gaf seems pleased with a half-assed version of the former and completely opposed to the latter.

I have been reading this thread all along as well as the one where it all started and I'm not seeing the "Pretend it never happened" thing.

I agree with the what now part you wrote. You don't think having millions of people reading his idiotic words along with his name and face plastered every where is shame or consequence? Not too mention how the community will handle him from here on out. That much is unknown at this point.

I'm not pleased by any of this to be honest. I have never been fond the slurs used on some fighting game streams both racial and sexual and have hoped for this change to come. I am glad it's bieng made public and I hope the FGC does do more to prevent this sort of nonsense or at least be more responsible about who they choose to let represent them.
 

wolfmat

Confirmed Asshole
I have the ultimate solution to this.

Aris has to fight to survive at this point. He has to fight girls, of course. In a video game. On a stream. Sponsored by NAMCO.
 

Mahonay

Banned
Let's review what he said.




He's not sorry about being a complete fuckup of a human being. He's sorry he got caught being a complete fuckup of a human being. There's a big difference when you qualify statements in that way.
That really stuck out to me too. He's not particularly sorry about the general immorality of his conduct with Miranda, just the fact it offended a lot of people and put Capcom in a bad light.

That's really his prerogative though. He did apologize even if it's not the way that some of us would have liked.
I have the ultimate solution to this.

Aris has to fight to survive at this point. He has to fight girls, of course. In a video game. On a stream. Sponsored by NAMCO.
I wast thinking more along the lines of Aris versus China in a "Hell in the Cell" cage match.
 

kirblar

Member
He can show up at the venue, sure. He can't be on mic, he can't compete for the prize. It's actually pretty simple. And it's not about Evo being the boss, it's about these people who are leaders of the community getting together and agreeing that certain behavior is unacceptable.

Because that's what the FGC's defense has been all along! That the problems are not endemic to the community. I'm inclined to believe them, but they have to put in a good-faith showing that this is true. And a good-faith showing isn't just writing an editorial on SRK and pretending it's all resolved.
You know what's also a part of a competitive gaming community? The concept that at the end of the day, the only thing that should matter is your performance. That you don't just throw someone out because you don't like them. You let them enter the tournament. You let them compete. Sure, ban Aris from commentary- that's completely reasonable. Aris's behavior has been horrible, and you can't trust him with a live mic. But exiling him for being a screw up isn't the right way to go about it. He's not a thief. He's not getting into fights. He's being an idiot. He's done a lot of dumb, stupid stuff, but he doesn't deserve to lose his ability to compete because of it.
 

notworksafe

Member
Hey, I don't know him. Maybe he's a sweetheart. Maybe he made a mistake. This could all be true.

But I don't know him, and I will likely never meet him. I'm not a part of the fighting game community, and I likely will never be.

But I do follow games media and I do use the internet, which probably makes me very typical of most people who are catching wind of the story right now. So if the last thing I hear about this incident is that nothing happened as a result, I'm going to come away with a very grotesque perception of the fighting game community.

So you know nothing about a community except for one bad incident. You come into a thread about it, call people names, demand someone you don't know be banned from a tourney you don't get because of an incident you only know through secondhand info.

You then say you won't respect a community you don't know much about and aren't part of if this person isn't banned from a tourney.

Word up, bro.
 

commish

Jason Kidd murdered my dog in cold blood!
There is no way in hell he should be banned. Noel "Bionic Arm" Brown is still attending tournaments and he actually attacked someone.

I agree that he shouldn't be allowed on the mic, but calling for him to be banned from competing off this is absurd.

What kind of rationale is that? Because someone else wasn't banned, this guy shouldn't? Two wrongs don't make a right!
 

obonicus

Member
You know what's also a part of a competitive gaming community? The concept that at the end of the day, the only thing that should matter is your performance. That you don't just throw someone out because you don't like them. You let them enter the tournament. You let them compete. Sure, ban Aris from commentary- that's completely reasonable. Aris's behavior has been horrible, and you can't trust him with a live mic. But exiling him for being a screw up isn't the right way to go about it. He's not a thief. He's not getting into fights. He's being an idiot. He's done a lot of dumb, stupid stuff, but he doesn't deserve to lose his ability to compete because of it.

And by that you're saying that no matter what sort of scumbag a player is, you have no problem if he continues to compete and is part of the scene. In essence, by not condemning his behavior actively, you're condoning it. That stance can't coexist with the notion that 'some things are unacceptable'.
 

alstein

Member
There is no way in hell he should be banned. Noel "Bionic Arm" Brown is still attending tournaments and he actually attacked someone.

I agree that he shouldn't be allowed on the mic, but calling for him to be banned from competing off this is absurd.

Noel got a 2 week ban, and told if it ever happens again he'd be banned for life.
 

Kusagari

Member
What kind of rationale is that? Because someone else wasn't banned, this guy shouldn't? Two wrongs don't make a right!

Because he did nothing worthy of being banned? In the end all he did was say a bunch of words, heinous horrible words but still words. You don't see other professional sports banning assholes, because in the end who cares if they're just assholes?

Don't let the guy be a prominent face at tournaments. Don't let him on a live mic. But outright banning him is not the way to go.

And yes, I know Noel got a 2 week ban with the caveat that he'd be lifetime banned if he did it again. But physically attacking someone is a million times worse than anything Aris did.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
What kind of rationale is that? Because someone else wasn't banned, this guy shouldn't? Two wrongs don't make a right!

Seriously, if that guy is still showing up despite actually assaulting someone, well, that's some despicable shit.

EDIT: I just saw alstein's post. Right on then. Sounds fair enough.
 

Kikujiro

Member
the irony of gaf being so fucking sensitive about low-level shit-talking while valiantly defending a heinous sexist is pretty mind blowing

The irony is the fact that you're calling a public lynching of a person for his immature and stupid comments, while you're here doing the same thing, calling other people cretin (pardon, fucking cretin) and behave like a child.

And GAF is not one person, it's a pretty mindblowing fact I'd say.
 
the_more_you_know2(1).jpg


Did You Know? The "pro" part of "pro-gamer" is short for "professional".
 
I really thought Giant Bomb's commentary on the situation was well done. I think people are being a little too harsh towards Aris. He fucked up, but I say let his actions prove if hes truly sorry or not from here on.
 

Conceited

mechaniphiliac
So you know nothing about a community except for one bad incident. You come into a thread about it, call people names, demand someone you don't know be banned from a tourney you don't get because of an incident you only know through secondhand info.

You then say you won't respect a community you don't know much about and aren't part of if this person isn't banned from a tourney.

Word up, bro.

I was referring to these types of posters earlier in the thread. Sucks that nobody seems to be holding these people responsible.
 

vitaminwateryum

corporate swill
Some of the responses in here are absolutely insane.

Has Capcom put out a public response yet? I'm more surprised that they haven't condemned him at all.
 

Mahonay

Banned
Some of the responses in here are absolutely insane.

Has Capcom put out a public response yet? I'm more surprised that they haven't condemned him at all.
They've only put out an extremely shitty boilerplate PR response.

Capcom in response to the Aris incident -
"The views and opinions expressed by cast members in the live internet program 'Cross Assault' do not reflect those of Capcom,”

“As a company, Capcom believes that everyone should be treated with respect. This particular issue was brought to our attention and has been addressed. We sincerely apologize to anyone that was offended by any comments expressed during the show."
 

Dylan

Member
So you know nothing about a community except for one bad incident. You come into a thread about it, call people names, demand someone you don't know be banned from a tourney you don't get because of an incident you only know through secondhand info.

You then say you won't respect a community you don't know much about and aren't part of if this person isn't banned from a tourney.

Word up, bro.

Are you saying that if I thoroughly understood the fighting game scene, then I would somehow be less disgusted with a man demanding that a young girl should "take off your shirt" repeatedly?

My point is that my ignorance of the fighting game scene makes me representative of a lot of people paying attention to this story. If the fighting game community wants to save face in the grand scheme of things, it will have to take into account that a lot people outside the community are going to be watching what happens.

And I only called one person a name, which was "dwarf". But from my knowledge of video games, I understand that dwarves are noble, intelligent & respectful people. Thus I hereby retract my name calling.
 

Chavelo

Member
Are you saying that if I thoroughly understood the fighting game scene, then I would somehow be less disgusted with a man demanding that a young girl should "take off your shirt" repeatedly?

My point is that my ignorance of the fighting game scene makes me representative of a lot of people paying attention to this story. If the fighting game community wants to save face in the grand scheme of things, it will have to take into account that a lot people outside the community are going to be watching what happens.

And I only called one person a name, which was "dwarf". But from my knowledge of video games, I understand that dwarves are noble, intelligent & respectful people. Thus I hereby retract my name calling.

Tell the truth: which article did you read?

Destructoid's or Penny-Arcade's?
 

trw

Member
I really thought Giant Bomb's commentary on the situation was well done. I think people are being a little too harsh towards Aris. He fucked up, but I say let his actions prove if hes truly sorry or not from here on.

If he doesn't even acknowledge publicly that the harassment was out of order on another level than that it was public on capcoms stream he doesn't deserve any excuses or any less harshness. Sure, it shouldn't turn into a witchhunt but until he at least acknowledges that it was out of line because you just don't do that to another human being no matter context I take that as his action and it proves that he is not truly sorry. I don't doubt he's sorry that it got this attention but it seems like he still thinks it's the pc police trying to get him.
 
Trying really hard not to hate the entire fighting game community as a whole. Trying really hard. Somebody please assure me that these douchebags are an anomoly and not a representation of the majority of fighting fans. Someone give me that much.
 

kirblar

Member
And by that you're saying that no matter what sort of scumbag a player is, you have no problem if he continues to compete and is part of the scene. In essence, by not condemning his behavior actively, you're condoning it. That stance can't coexist with the notion that 'some things are unacceptable'.
Some things are unacceptable. Those things normally involve the player being viewed as a threat to others, (via physicality or theft) or to the integrity of the scene (in terms of match-fixing, bribes, etc.) But banning people because of a value judgment on how "acceptable" they are? That's not a line we want to be crossing. Should a homophobic TO be allowed to ban gay players because they might "corrupt" the other ones? It's not a line you want to cross.
 
Trying really hard not to hate the entire fighting game community as a whole. Trying really hard. Somebody please assure me that these douchebags are an anomolgy and not a representation of the majority of fighting fans. Someone give me that much.

You should never base an opinion of an entire community based on a few bad apples who the media loves to bring attention to. Kinda goes for everything.
 

d0c_zaius

Member
so aris is getting death threats now?

I suppose people will find someway to say he asked for it.

Trying really hard not to hate the entire fighting game community as a whole. Trying really hard. Somebody please assure me that these douchebags are an anomoly and not a representation of the majority of fighting fans. Someone give me that much.

Because someone assuring you on this board is enough to call out how wrong your hasty judgement is? or your belief in this statement is shaky at best.

Either way smh at your entire quote.

So these people are bad apples?

I'm trying not to generalize, here. I know jack-shit about the community and I'm trying to get my facts straight. Why would these guys think that being a douche is "part of the community"? What would lead them to think that way? Are they just misguided idiots?

How are you not trying to generalize when that is exactly what you want to do? Or is this teetering between stances like LI Joe on his talkshow. If you cared at all about actually knowing whats going on, you wouldn't be looking for reasons to validate your anger. If I am wrong, and you truly are just looking for info, then using logic, I ask you "Do you think its fair to judge a global community based on the act of one person?". It should be really simple.

man Im out of this minefield.
 

Chavelo

Member
Trying really hard not to hate the entire fighting game community as a whole. Trying really hard. Somebody please assure me that these douchebags are an anomoly and not a representation of the majority of fighting fans. Someone give me that much.

Really? Do you think that's how it goes for any type of community? As in "you see one person being a jackass, therefore everyone who likes the activity are jackasses themselves"?

I mean... seriously?
 
You should never base an opinion of an entire community based on a few bad apples who the media loves to bring attention to. Kinda goes for everything.

So these people are bad apples?

I'm trying not to generalize, here. I know jack-shit about the community and I'm trying to get my facts straight. Why would these guys think that being a douche is "part of the community"? What would lead them to think that way? Are they just misguided idiots?
 
The irony is the fact that you're calling a public lynching of a person for his immature and stupid comments, while you're here doing the same thing, calling other people cretin (pardon, fucking cretin) and behave like a child.

well i shouldn't have to make plain the difference between these two situations, but i'll go ahead and do so anyway:

miranda's sin was being a woman in the presence of an asshole. JudgeN was being a cretin in the presence of an asshole.

miranda can't not be a female; JudgeN doesn't have to be a mopey idiot

is the fog of righteous indignation clearing now?
 

notworksafe

Member
Are you saying that if I thoroughly understood the fighting game scene, then I would somehow be less disgusted with a man demanding that a young girl should "take off your shirt" repeatedly?

My point is that my ignorance of the fighting game scene makes me representative of a lot of people paying attention to this story. If the fighting game community wants to save face in the grand scheme of things, it will have to take into account that a lot people outside the community are going to be watching what happens.

And I only called one person a name, which was "dwarf". But from my knowledge of video games, I understand that dwarves are noble, intelligent & respectful people. Thus I hereby retract my name calling.

Please don't be patronizing. "Dwarf" was not meant as a compliment.

Also, I'm not defending Aris' behavior. I'm also saying that coming into this thread and demanding things happen without knowing the specifics of what's happened and people involved is a bit much.

Personally I think the FGC is making steps right now to make sure people know that they aren't pleased with Aris' behavior. In fact most of these things have been posted in this thread. Might be helpful to read them before popping off on a forum. Aris is just one person and isn't an example for the entire FGC.

EDIT: With all of the above mentioned, if you are someone who didn't pay attention before this and won't pay attention after this, your opinion won't matter or have any long term impact. So you're free to think whatever you want of the FGC.
 

Chavelo

Member
well i shouldn't have to make plain the difference between these two situations, but i'll go ahead and do so anyway:

miranda's sin was being a woman in the presence of an asshole. JudgeN was being a cretin in the presence of an asshole.

miranda can't not be a female; JudgeN doesn't have to be a mopey idiot

is the fog of righteous indignation clearing now?

That's really not the best way to argue your point in the first place, man.
 
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