CalamityPixel
Member
Grow up. Wales got us in this mess as well.
The way you talk down on the UK is the type of shit that would make people want to vote leave.
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UK set to trigger Brexit on March 29
- Thread starter chadskin
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Grow up. Wales got us in this mess as well.
The way you talk down on the UK is the type of shit that would make people want to vote leave.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Q) Why should I care? Nothing I do or say now will change the result.
They already chose to leave and at this point I say good riddance. Sorry remain bros.
CalamityPixel
Member
Yeah it's shitty, I voted remain. But we can't change shit and complaining will do nothing but give fuel to those who would shit on us.
Only thing we can do is work towards getting through it.
excelsiorlef
Member
Unions have benefits, if you leave that union you lose those benefits... Why would the union want to give you, the leaving party who have rejected what they stand for, a sweet exit deal? Why should you get to keep so many of the benefits that came from being part of a Union you no longer want to be a part of? If they did that what would the point of the Union even existing be? So yeah they're not going to give you a sweet deal because if they did others would leave too and expect the same thing and then oops the whole fucking thing collapses...
Britain voted to leave, they don't now get to demand the EU be super nice to them. Not how any of this works.
whyamihere
Banned
Yeah, it's not in the EU's best interest to make this a painless process. Right or not, I don't know if it was ever right to expect Brexit to be a back pat, a handshake, with the EU and the UK going on their separate ways. It was going to sting, probably by design.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Then I don't want to hear Leavers complain when the EU fucks us over as punishment for leaving. After all, the way UKIP and the tabloids talked about the EU is the type of shit that would make people want to make a public example of the UK.
Then let's not delve into the rabbit hole of internet-he-said-she-said and hug it out. You didn't imply that - someone else did which is what my discussion was. You, sir, are not being hysterical so I will give a respectful nod to your knowledge of history and move along
lol
Why should we be punished exactly?
We had a democratic vote which sadly resulted in a leave vote. We should be punished for daring to want to leave?
Are you seriously suggesting that anti-Irish bigotry no longer exists?
There are still places in the UK that ritualistically burn Irish flags on the 12th of July (or occasionally Ivory Coast flags, since the stupid fuckers can't tell the difference)
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Referendums should be banned. What a mess.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It's not punishment. It's just that the EU isn't going to go out of its way to give us a good deal, because then everyone else will want to leave. We'll get a deal advantageous to the EU's interests, and that's that.
Again with this, good grief. What does it mean? Who is this we? What does this work entail? Aside from going to my job 5 days a week and paying my taxes and NI contributions, what exactly am I supposed to do to make a success of Brexit that I'm not doing already? Can you or anyone else answer this?
Some of you have a very funny idea of democracy. Apparently it begins and ends at the ballot box. The right to peaceful protest, to object and to disagree somehow doesn't seem to fit the narrative. Ironic given that eurosceptics haven't quietly accepted our place in the EU for quite some time now.
Muppet of a Man
Member
We have our own baby boomer cunts that put Trump, along with the likes of Bannon and Miller, into office. Truly the worst generation in modern history. Fucking entitled, bigoted pricks.
How about going to your job 7 days a week and paying twice the tax?
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Why should we get a decent deal from the EU for incessantly talking shit about them for years and then leaving in a giant shitstorm intended to do nothing more than further the political ambitions for some Tory shitheads while the country is fucked for generations to come?
It's in the EU's best interests to give us a shitty deal to dissuade other nations from thinking that they can leave without suffering any consequences.
They don't owe us shit.
Yep. Or retrain myself as 10 NHS nurses. Or negotiate unconditional single market access and free cake, prosecco and Audis for all British purebloods.
I feel bad for UK folk as a whole.
This is not going to benefit anyone. But will hurt one side less than it will hurt the other. Just like a divorce.
I'm sorry to UK folk, but the UK voted to leave. We will always welcome you, but never in the same capacity and position the UK had before. The UK, even if it were to join again, will never be given the distinct position it had. And that's only fair.
Some in the EU are glad the UK has left. Because now, a closer union can be made that is much stronger. In all honesty, the result of Brexit has made EU citizens more pro-Europe, and this is already being seen throughout Europe. Just look at the Dutch election where a record turnout was seen. That resulted in a pro-EU result. People saw Brexit, they felt more European, they saw Trump, they realised they only had themselves to rely on.
In addition, please understand that it simply wouldn't be fair the UK to be given the benefits of club membership that others pay for in money and other obligations, which you no longer will be doing. The EU will not give access to the single market. The four freedoms will never be separated. The brexit bill will also have to be paid. £50 Billion pounds or something was it? That bill is simply obligations that the UK still need to right off. Nothing else. No matter what the Tory government tries to say, the EU doesn't have it out for the UK.
I can't forget the way the campaign was conducted. The demonisation of eastern europeans was abhorrent. Imagine being a young nurse at the NHS, and coming home to see that on TV for months. It was demeaning, and shameful. I'm not even going to talk about the other kinds of racism.
This is not going to benefit anyone. But will hurt one side less than it will hurt the other. Just like a divorce.
I'm sorry to UK folk, but the UK voted to leave. We will always welcome you, but never in the same capacity and position the UK had before. The UK, even if it were to join again, will never be given the distinct position it had. And that's only fair.
Some in the EU are glad the UK has left. Because now, a closer union can be made that is much stronger. In all honesty, the result of Brexit has made EU citizens more pro-Europe, and this is already being seen throughout Europe. Just look at the Dutch election where a record turnout was seen. That resulted in a pro-EU result. People saw Brexit, they felt more European, they saw Trump, they realised they only had themselves to rely on.
In addition, please understand that it simply wouldn't be fair the UK to be given the benefits of club membership that others pay for in money and other obligations, which you no longer will be doing. The EU will not give access to the single market. The four freedoms will never be separated. The brexit bill will also have to be paid. £50 Billion pounds or something was it? That bill is simply obligations that the UK still need to right off. Nothing else. No matter what the Tory government tries to say, the EU doesn't have it out for the UK.
I can't forget the way the campaign was conducted. The demonisation of eastern europeans was abhorrent. Imagine being a young nurse at the NHS, and coming home to see that on TV for months. It was demeaning, and shameful. I'm not even going to talk about the other kinds of racism.
A day off is probably the best deal we can get. There's just no pleasing some people.
If a country had a democratic vote which sadly resulted in a vote to invade another country, would you be asking why the country being invaded is punishing them through fighting back?
Why do people think that a country democratically voting to do something is enough to absolve it from any and all responsibility, consequence and results directly caused by the actions it takes because of that?
Linkstrikesback
Member
You're conflating punishment with what the EU will do, which will be act in the best interests of the EU. That's how the tabloids will spin it too. The EU will give us a deal that is at best, much worse than what we have now, and the right wing press will denounce it as a personal attack on England.
You'll find the majority of reasonable Brits on here agree with all of this. The only positive I can see from Brexit so far, and it's a bittersweet one, is a potentially more united Europe. With the rise of some nasty far right forces around the world, it's important more than ever.
whyamihere
Banned
I don't understand why anyone expected anything different.
did you know that, if you rearrange the stars in the EU flag just a little, they will form a swastika? Hmmmmm
The Hermit
Member
Good for them
It's not been legally confirmed but consensus seems to lean towards the UK could technically turn round at the end of the two years after Article 50 is triggered and not leave.
It would be awkward as fuck but hell I'd take it. It will never happen but a second referendum on a short synopsis on the leaving agreement / proposal of terms would be my wish.
1) Agree to the terms and Leave
2) Remain in the EU, with a 60% threshold required.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No. The body with the legal authority to provide a clarification is the Court of Justice of the European Union, but they only make rulings in response to requests from either national governments or national supreme courts. The UK government won't ask because it doesn't want to know, and the supreme court can't ask without a relevant case coming up, so it doesn't look like we'll know any time soon, either.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Who do you think you are to expect the EU to put your wellbeing above theirs?
anonymous_abc
Member
I don't think there is a definite answer as of yet. But I am pretty sure that more than a little damage would have been made by the time that the UK (hypothetically) says it was all just a big misunderstanding.Even now if they did that prior to A50 they would probably not be making many friends among the rEU27.
To be clear though, if auntie May came out next week and said sorry boys and girls, business as usual. I personally would welcome that.
anonymous_abc
Member
More sunshine and shorter cold winters?
Tranqueris
Banned
I mean, people who voted leave thought it would be a good idea to pay attention to a Russian lackey and a moron with crazy hair and fuck over an arrangement that was actually helping them out quite a bit because of the scary immigrants, an NHS promise that didn't last a day after the vote and taking back control, whatever the fuck that means at this point.
So I guess what I'm saying is yes?
Euro is pretty awful for economies such as Finland's.
It limits our fiscal policy options a great deal because we aren't in control of the euro, the effects of the one-two punch of Nokia's downfall and lumber industry's decreased relevance could've been lessened a great deal if we could've devalued our currency. Different countries have different needs, and what does it help us if the dutch and the germans benefit from the euro? We should've kept our own currency like Sweden.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
You give up control of your own monetary policy, which means if your economy doesn't move in synch with the Eurozone average, you're in trouble.
excelsiorlef
Member
Expecting a sweetheart exit deal from the EU is like kicking your roommate in the groin, insulting them, and then moving out right before rent is due whilst expecting to be able to keep a spare key and use their laundry machine whenever you want because your new place doesn't have one.
So even if the populace were to mobilise, force an early general election (possible off the back of the current scandal in the making), vote in a party that would have a single item manifesto to reverse Article 50, there's still no guarantee that the process would be halted.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
At this point, correct.
plagiarize
Banned
Europe has to think about it's own future. They have to discourage anyone else thinking about cutting and running no? If they don't make an example... what happens?
Thinking that the UK had all the bargaining chips because they are such a key trade partner was ignorant of other concerns facing Europe.
Is that a reason not to try, though?
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Sort of. I mean, if you went through all that only to find out you can't do anything at the end, you've just wasted six months of valuable negotiating time and made things worse for yourself in the long run. That's precisely why the government doesn't want it clarified.
Ah sorry, I meant more for the groups opposed to the Brexit ordeal. Is this a genuine proactive action that they could take over the next 24 months? Or would the risks you outlined be so bad that it's not worth risking it?
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think there's much of anything groups opposed to Brexit can do. May has a majority and she doesn't plan on calling a general election so that's unlikely to change in the near future. The only people with any power who might be swayed are the rebel Conservative backbench, but May's polling numbers are so tidy they're not going to be rocking the boat any time soon. Pretty much time to just accept it and move on.
He didn't really ask that. He asked whether anything would ever be able to change my mind about voting leave. I said the answer is yes, I'd change my mind if Brexit turned out to be permanent disaster. I listed a number of factors that could make me change my mind. I answered his question. Done.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours of my life explaining to Gaf why I voted the way I did. I see you think that makes me a coward and I suspect the implication is that I must be some kind of closet racist. But honestly, the reason I won't do it is because it would be a waste of time. I'm not going to persuade you of anything, so why bother? Let me put it this way. Why should I write a long essay justifying why I voted the way I did? Why does my reasoning matter to you? Is anything I say ever going to change your mind? Are you genuinely curious to hear a point of view and to potentially change your own? In your heart of hearts, do you honestly believe you could ever be persuaded that Britain should leave the EU? Are you willing to concede that you were wrong? And is it possible that I, here and now, will be the person to persuade you of that?
I'm sorry to pre-judge you but I honestly don't think that I'm going to change your mind on this; I honestly don't think anything I ever say will make any meaningful difference to what anyone here thinks. Don't get me wrong - I don't anticipate that anyone here will change my mind either. We've all made up our minds now. But I don't see much value in spending my week off bogged down in an internet argument.
As far as I'm concerned, the purpose of discussion and debate is at least to help us understand the other side, and ideally to change to persuade them to think like us. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people talking to themselves when there just happen to be other people in the room.
This is an overwhelmingly pro-remain forum, and that means I'm heavily outnumbered in these discussions. It's really frustrating and exhausting to try and argue a complex case against a large forum full of people who have pre-determined that you're wrong, and many of whom believe that you're covering for some kind of racism. It's not fun to fight such a lop-sided battle, to get bogged down in misquotes and misinterpretations, and to be totally unable to make headway. It'll be even less fun when a drive-by shitposter inevitably comes along, deliberately misquotes the first line of my essay, and we all spend the next three pages discussing whether I'm a xenophobe or how I have no understanding of xyz or whatever.
I'm not going to stand up and explain why I voted the way I did because it would be a completely fruitless and exhausting uphill battle. Try jumping into an overwhelmingly pro-leave forum and arguing for remain. It's not fun or productive to be so heavily outnumbered. Nobody's going to be persuaded by my views on EMU or the European Neighbourhood Policy or the democratic deficit or whatever. So I'm going to leave it there and enjoy what little remains of my Monday night.
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