finowns
Member
You might be right. The narrative is somewhat bizarre and unnecessary.
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Paris mayor demands black feminist festival that 'prohibits' white people be banned
- Thread starter Shiggy
- Start date
You might be right. The narrative is somewhat bizarre and unnecessary.
To either center themselves in the conversation rendering the whole point of it undone.
Or it's white reactionary bait. If there was a women's workshop/safe space for women who have been abused by men. I'd be a real assholes to try and insert myself into that space. That's some gross ads entitlement fr fr
Said it better than I did. Thanks for this post.
Dice//
Banned
I'm mostly worried some wise-ass who gives no shits about the issues is gonna go because of a "right to do so" just to stir some crap.
SirRattleBalls
Banned
Its called being secular, thats how France is like it or not. As for voices being marginalized i fail to see how that applies to the topic at hand. Wanting a safe space for your race is called segregation, you know . that thing that ended decades ago in America and only in 1991 in South Africa. Personally i believe the only reason people use safe spaces is because they dont like their views being challenged in a public setting
France voted for a Centralized Europhile, he won by over 60%, so how where they about to show their ass again.
excelsiorlef
Member
Ugh safe spaces. This kind of segregation is never the answer, even if the group has it tougher than the other, we need to come together and all that good stuff.
Just saying come together and preaching "unity" doesn't actually do shit.. to denigrate even the sheer concept of safe spaces shows you have a distinct lack of understanding on why they exist.
Your post is empty platitudes stacked upon empty platitudes.
Part of unity and working together would be understanding that sometimes marginalized people need time and space to talk and organize amongst themselves without having to worry about placating representatives of the majority.
Is this festival the right way to do it? I honestly don't know because I don't know enough about it... but to just say ugh safe spaces is asinine.
Palette Swap
Member
That was my first thought when I heard of it. Afrofeminism doesn't really move masses, and the subject probably created a natural barrier.
The thing is, you could still be trolled to hell by shitlords deciding to come and highJAQ your panels, making it about themselves and how it's really racist. It's what happened in the end, though.
The far right saw a wedge issue and pushed all the way, isolating this convention from people who should be its allies.
That's entirely ignoring the fact de facto safe spaces for particular groups already exist. Typically, religious services for campuses are safe spaces, religious student associations are safe spaces. There's already a shitload of implicit safe spaces and groups where not anyone can just walk in.Ugh safe spaces. This kind of segregation is never the answer, even if the group has it tougher than the other, we need to come together and all that good stuff.
This would not be allowed in many places in the US either, if it uses public property. And that's how it should be. If you want to segregate races and discriminate against who can be allowed isn't into an event or portions of an event based on arbitrary racial or gender distinctions, it should be held on private property.
BLM Philadelphia recently had to give up their space in a public library for the same reason. They tried to hold POC-only meetings in a public building. These things are not allowed on public land because its a slippery slope to then allowing discrimination for all types of events. Who is the fair arbiter that decides BLM is ok to hold POC-only meetings but "the white school board" is not ok to hold white only meetings for issues affecting white children at their school? There is no agreed upon standard for what is ok and what is not. If BLM is cool to segregate, can guarantee you that there is a sizable portion of the population that thinks "white school board" or "white neighborhood councils" would be just peachy.
excelsiorlef
Member
Did you just compare safe spaces to Apartheid?!
And lol yes Black folk who wants safe spaces are just so afraid of being challenged... God knows I'm sure they never get challenged in the 99.99999999% of their life.
Given what you highlighted, I'm not sure wha it is exactly that you are saying.
I agree with this, I guess I just see 80% of the festival being off limits as extreme. I could totally understand like a panel, or some areas that this would apply to, but when a vast majority of your festival is off limits I think that's pushing away potential allies.
ClosingADoor
Member
And you can do all this without any problem. Make a private event, invite people you want and check at the door for tickets.
What you can't do it make a festival and stop people from entering certain parts based on skin color.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
SirRattleBalls
Banned
I've never been challenged in my life , and if i wanted to prove a point or enlighten others on my African culture i wont hold a " Only African Event" and just talk to other Africans, i would invite the whole community.
I mean organizing isn't centered around pushing away or attracting allies to your cause. You'll learn very quickly who's your "allies" actually are the moment you begin to organize
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Oh it is very easy to tell, with how hyperbolic absolutist and naive your points have been.
And with how fast and loose you talk about a political system that disenfranchised millions.
I don't disagree with your point about public property. I'm only challenging the idea that this is racist. You lost me at white onlybspace for "issues affecting white children". Thats some false equivalency based on something completely imaginary. We don't live in a world where white children are on the margins of society.
Tons of people that don't bother to read into the issue and jump to conclusions.
1) The Paris mayor is a woman. And she's from the left. So not exactly the person you want to qualify as anti feminism.
2) If this were allowed, nothing would stop the actual hate group from using loopholes to prohibit black people to attend. Back when the FN was organizing parties with alcohol and ham (precisely to avoid muslims), it was also banned.
3) One can want to educate oneself about issues others face. Why would you seek evil out of white people casually attending such festival as if their only goal was to undermine it ? That doesn't make any sense.
1) The Paris mayor is a woman. And she's from the left. So not exactly the person you want to qualify as anti feminism.
2) If this were allowed, nothing would stop the actual hate group from using loopholes to prohibit black people to attend. Back when the FN was organizing parties with alcohol and ham (precisely to avoid muslims), it was also banned.
3) One can want to educate oneself about issues others face. Why would you seek evil out of white people casually attending such festival as if their only goal was to undermine it ? That doesn't make any sense.
he's saying it as a black man, and that has me confused.
That's not exactly what was meant, but if you want to use this for Frances colorblind/post racial credentials....then ok.
We don't disagree on your first point but I have legitimately witnessed point three with my very own eyes on multiple occasions. Even when someone has the best of intentions coming into a space like that I've seen this happen.
Ironically, thats the sort of mentality that can only be born out of majority white spaces.
I know plenty that start privileging white feelings over poc livelihood/freedom. Some people are just complacent.
excelsiorlef
Member
The vitriolic reactions to even the concept of safe space underscore an issue I find prevalent in society, folks want to act like Society is equal long before equality has actually been achieved.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Pretty sure their purpose would be a good differentiation.
Because it is not always done on purpose. And not every meeting needs to be about regurgitating anti-black female racism/sexism 101.
ClosingADoor
Member
Make an event with a guest list would fix this. Having a festival and dividing up the different rooms by color is not a smart way to go about it and is rightfully being called out for it.
Pretty much. Make it a private event, have a guest list, check tickets at the entrance. Don't call it a "festival" if it's not really open to everyone and also don't expect public funding (or the use of public spaces) for such an event. Sure, you'll get your share of trolls even then, but I doubt it would explode in that way.
But I guess it's easier to erect the strawman that the argument is against "safe spaces" in general.
Yes. These conversations can't be had without a whole lot of false equivalencies being thrown out for this reason. People have an incredibly short sighted idea of how systemic isms work. People just overlook entire power dynamics, so this is great for reactionaries on the right to push their anti-left, anti-black agenda.
These kind of voices aren't needed in those spaces, they're antithetical to their liberatory aspirations.
SirRattleBalls
Banned
What a weird statement to make. Yes ive never been challenged on my race, i live in the UK and have spent a considerable amount of time in France. Like any country they have their own social problems with cultural integration, but there values of being secular is built into their constitutions. You just need to accept that having a black only safe space is messed up.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
That's absolutely not what I implied and you know it. I did not question the part of your post about France being racist (every country is) but the one about the election being close. It never was.
Dude Abides
Banned
This is just how it's gonna be in public places. If you want to have your event in public, you'll have to let in the Proud Boys and Sea Lions.
So you're going to ignore the context of which my comment was made to highlight a percieved slight at France while agreeing with my point that the country is racist? K
excelsiorlef
Member
Furthermore all white white supremacists meetings cannot be compared to black safe spaces
Intent actually matters: White supremacists inherently work to make society less equal, black safe spaces are about meeting to further the move towards equality.
Intent actually matters: White supremacists inherently work to make society less equal, black safe spaces are about meeting to further the move towards equality.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
No I don't.
Explain why I should in a way that doesn't ignore power dynamics and intent.
excelsiorlef
Member
No they don't, and given that you compared safe spaces to Jim Crow and the Apartheid, I'm not sure your scale of what constitutes messed up is valid.
If the law went by purpose then Le Pen's lawyers would be able to find a purpose for their anti-PoC segregation that can't be argued against. They're not going to come out and say "we want a white-only event because we wish to incite hatred against minorities," they're going to say something that would make any banning of their event completely arbitrary in the eyes of the law.
You really want to say black folks wanting to be more free, women wanting to be more free, to live and learn in non-hostile environments is messed up.
Sounds like you need one of these decolonization worskshops
SirRattleBalls
Banned
The same would apply if it was Whites, Jews, Mexicans, Arabs etc only kids . Its 2017.
Segregation is not a thing anymore. Its a Public space. So it should be open to everyone not just those that you deem worthy
excelsiorlef
Member
What do you mean by it's 2017? Safe spaces aren't Jim fucking Crow or whatever else from the past you want to compare it to.
Equality hasn't actually been achieved ya know.
You keep just talking in empty slogans rather than understanding where anyone is coming from...
Again you compared safe spaces to the fucking Apartheid...
Marvel
could never
Yup.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
stan423321
Member
Uh oh. What rule exactly did that fall into? I know plenty of people who include ham and alcohol into their parties...
Well, a lot of people on GAF argue that intent is irrelevant for racism. If you follow that logic, it probably should be applied here as well.
Not that I really agree with that stance and generally, I don't have any problems with a private event having a sort of guest list. But then you should promote it as such.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
The context was you questioning French values and secularism with an incorrect statement. All I did was point that out.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
In comparison to damage done to target, consciously or not.
This is a different context where yeah, intent of the meet does matter. Because of potential damage, circling back to above.
I questioned French values of being seemingly colorblind to point out how it still manages to be racist and enact racism. And you want to focus on numbers as if only those that voted for le penn can possibly be racist. As if those numbers aren't still damning. It's a strange point to harp on since I wasn't even that specific.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
France being anti-racist? So they refunded Haiti and other former colonies all the money they stole from them the last few centuries? They need to get off their high horse on this one.
France: Where the formerly enslaved pay reparations!
France: Where the formerly enslaved pay reparations!