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First Halo 4 GI information (Spartan OPs, multi, etc) [Update: Campaign/More Details]
- Thread starter Demoncarnotaur
- Start date
KidA Seven
Member
How do people camp power weapon locations? Do you guys suck or something? If people are camping power weapon locations, it should be an easy kill. All you have to do is nade them. Not only that, but they aren't helping out their team since they'll be playing 3v4 teamwork wise, especially because power ups/weapons spawn on certain times, so they'll be useless for the majority of the game.
Having to time and use teamwork in order to secure a power weapon/up is part of what makes Halo fun and skillful (compared to other console shooters of course).
Splitting up the Halo playerbase is a bad idea also. Vanilla Halo must be balanced, skillful, and fun. The matchmaking system is what should separate the beginners from the experts, so the difficulty of play shouldn't be a problem. Part of the reason why Halo isn't as successful as Street Fighter, Starcraft, etc... competitively is because there are so many modes that split the player base up. Casual fans that watch MLG Halo can't recognize how skilled the top players are because they don't recognize the maps, and the basic mechanics.
When a casual player watches Daigo vs Momochi, or Kazunoko they can relate to the game because it's the exact same game they're playing, only at a higher level. When a casual Starcraft player watches Dongraegu vs MKP, they see the same game but are amazed by the skilled play going on. This doesn't happen in Halo because of the split playerbase. A casual halo player wanders into MLG Halo and different maps are used, a variety of gametypes are used, many of the weapons aren't used, power ups/power weapons can be timed and are in different locations than default, etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41hpupcHrhI&feature=player_embedded
Having to time and use teamwork in order to secure a power weapon/up is part of what makes Halo fun and skillful (compared to other console shooters of course).
Splitting up the Halo playerbase is a bad idea also. Vanilla Halo must be balanced, skillful, and fun. The matchmaking system is what should separate the beginners from the experts, so the difficulty of play shouldn't be a problem. Part of the reason why Halo isn't as successful as Street Fighter, Starcraft, etc... competitively is because there are so many modes that split the player base up. Casual fans that watch MLG Halo can't recognize how skilled the top players are because they don't recognize the maps, and the basic mechanics.
When a casual player watches Daigo vs Momochi, or Kazunoko they can relate to the game because it's the exact same game they're playing, only at a higher level. When a casual Starcraft player watches Dongraegu vs MKP, they see the same game but are amazed by the skilled play going on. This doesn't happen in Halo because of the split playerbase. A casual halo player wanders into MLG Halo and different maps are used, a variety of gametypes are used, many of the weapons aren't used, power ups/power weapons can be timed and are in different locations than default, etc...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41hpupcHrhI&feature=player_embedded
How? If weapon drops are random, so are being able to reload that weapon with new ammo. Assuming we buy into the theory in this thread that if you have a certain weapon you can dominate (not a theory I subscribe to, by the way, assuming good map design), the player who gets the lucky spawn will be dominating for all of two minutes at best, as the more 'powerful' weapons in Halo are offset by tiny clip sizes.
Who the fuck scanned this fucking issue? Not only had he cherry picked parts, he went so far and just darkened the text and posted only MP info and pictures. What are we, five year olds? Just give us the damn scans, don't fuck around with it because there is no spoilers, it was supposed to be released in that state you idiot.
Probably wanted to give people a reason to go out and buy the issue.
dragonelite
Member
What about you are short of 5 kills from winning, and the enemy team is short 10 kills they get lucky with power weapon drops and win with a 2 kill difference. I would have felt robbed because they were lucky with pw drops. And not because they played better in the last moment.
lol?
Buy the magazine?
Than he shouldn't have posted any scans at all.
KidA Seven
Member
I'm not sure what's funny. I just explained why it's so dumb to camp power weapon locations.
-Power ups/weapons have timers in certain locations. If rockets spawn every 3 minutes, the guy is going to camp in that location the whole time? That makes no sense, since your team will suffer from having to play 3v4. Teams know when weapons respawn so they're going to push for the weapons 10 sec before they drop (by nading the area). If you get a kill in that spot, you're going to get called out. You won't know when/where they will come at you, but they will know where you are since you are camping (staying in a certain location). Easy kill for the other team.
so...
Zeouterlimits
Member
Taken back at the Showcase, nothing new in it.
KittenMaster
Member
Randomly dropping weapons sounds terrible. Not only will it create problems in pacing, but it's a game mechanic that allows the devs to ignore a crucial aspect of level design instead of fine tuning the balance.
It screams laziness and a disconnect from the players.
It screams laziness and a disconnect from the players.
Windom Earle
Member
It will also have killstreaks.
I can see the fanbase going nuts.
This might be the 1st Halo game I will really enjoy, but
Really?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Somebody just tell me that the theatre mode is back and has a lot of new improvements.
Bornstellar
Member
Comments from Frankie have indicating as much (at least that it's back!).
Most people don't have a ton of time to put into games. They just want to log on for a couple of matches and have some fun. Playing Halo3 at a friends house after it was out for a couples of years was just no fun because everyone already knew where everything was at while we were always 'stuck' with BRs and got wasted constantly.
Man, Halo MP just becomes a predictable show after a while. Everyone runs to the same places and the matches always center around the same areas. There is nothing 'emergent' about the experience. Of course, my perspective is skewed by BFBC2, where hardly any matches are alike.
Windom Earle
Member
The way they are CODifying the game, I think there is a very good chance.
Pre shit storm, lol.
Vinterbird
Member
Could you elaborate on what COD'ing the game means, and also how the new changes are bad? I'm not plugged into the main Halo scene, and from my perspective as a extreme casual MP gamer, it just sounds like they are making it more friendly and random, allowing for everyone to have a fair shot at surviving more then eight seconds.
It's funny because it happens, but not in the dumbed down way you explained it.
A team either a.) Gains control of the area to protect the spawn and defend themselves before it appears, or b.) Just be an MLG douchebag and have timers running for everything to nab them under everyone's nose. I would consider both of those methods power weapon camping, at least in the way it is being defined by this whole random weapon bullshit.
Windom Earle
Member
Customizable weapons and loadouts, faster respawns, etc. And don't get me wrong, it's not bad IMO. Halo has a huge fanbase, but the mp system can seem archaic to new players. If they find a healthy middle ground, this could be great.
KidA Seven
Member
Then it's not camping. Camping means you stay in a location.
Example:
1. Camping lift on sword base.
Camping is bad when there is radar that helps the campers and it's in a position that is very easy to control and is powerful.
As for your scenarios
A. Perfectly legit... nothing wrong with it. The better team killed the other team and gained control of the area The team with the better teamwork will usually win in this scenario.
B. Nab them under everyone's noses? Umm, if you failed to time the power weapons you should be punished. Your team obviously isn't good enough to control the game. The power weapons/ups spawn in set locations on certain times. Everything is equal and isn't random. Not sure how this is bad.
Again In those scenarios, that isn't camping. You aren't "camping" in that location. You go there 10 sec before the weapons are up and you fight for them. If waiting 10 sec is camping, then I don't know what to tell you. The only time where someone waits in a location longer than that is when there is a stalemate. Teams either bait the power weapon or fight for it. Again, no camping involved.
Also, controlling an area isn't camping if that is what you're getting at. It's hard to control an area on great maps. If it's easy to control an area to secure a power weapon then that speaks more on the map being awful than it being a spawn timer/location problem.
Holy...
No firefight?
I won t miss covies in MP but firefight.
Hopefully there is a forerunner MP mode that s a spiritual successor to firefight.
.
Happy for sprint to be de facto.
Instant respawn is the end of an era.
spartan ops is a dream come true.
Feels like playing a fiction book about SIII.
Forerunner vision may imoly wr fight against smart forerunners who can track us
No firefight?
I won t miss covies in MP but firefight.
Hopefully there is a forerunner MP mode that s a spiritual successor to firefight.
.
Happy for sprint to be de facto.
Instant respawn is the end of an era.
spartan ops is a dream come true.
Feels like playing a fiction book about SIII.
Forerunner vision may imoly wr fight against smart forerunners who can track us
dragonelite
Member
Just saw the scans and i like the Elite design they look really intimidating now i do hope we get to see the design team spin on brutes if they are in it and the forerunners.
Lets spin this a little more on the positive side.
How random are we talking for weapon drops? I am guessing 343 have a system in place which drops the weapons at selected places, since dumping it randomly off a cliff or on a really tall building, seems a little pointless.
What happens if they have a Left 4 Dead AI thing going on? Maybe the game will be watching how the match is playing out and choose to drop items to progress the battle. Blue Team getting hammered in their base? Game drops off the Grenade Launcher and lets you push out. Cannot get the flag? Game drops in an Active Camo or Overshield.
Some games like people to learn the maps and weapon layouts. Quake is a perfect example. They know the sounds and the timings for things, it looks awesome...for pro players. Anyone else is getting annihilated by the player who spends more time running around and memorizing the map. Maybe 343 will have those "pro" options and let players have their map control by having the weapons spawn, adding the re-spawn delay etc. Bungie/343 classically add plenty of gametypes for players.
How random are we talking for weapon drops? I am guessing 343 have a system in place which drops the weapons at selected places, since dumping it randomly off a cliff or on a really tall building, seems a little pointless.
What happens if they have a Left 4 Dead AI thing going on? Maybe the game will be watching how the match is playing out and choose to drop items to progress the battle. Blue Team getting hammered in their base? Game drops off the Grenade Launcher and lets you push out. Cannot get the flag? Game drops in an Active Camo or Overshield.
Some games like people to learn the maps and weapon layouts. Quake is a perfect example. They know the sounds and the timings for things, it looks awesome...for pro players. Anyone else is getting annihilated by the player who spends more time running around and memorizing the map. Maybe 343 will have those "pro" options and let players have their map control by having the weapons spawn, adding the re-spawn delay etc. Bungie/343 classically add plenty of gametypes for players.
I love how video games are turning into this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fun_Fair_Positive_Soccer
i agree with darkchild, we don't get the magazine in the uk so i was looking forward to the scans but they arent very good. :'(
FunkyMunkey
Banned
This sounds just absolutely terrible.
Instant respawns takes away what makes Halo, Halo. And with Halo's terrible spawns... what happens when you're playing CTF and the enemies can spawn immediately and kill you after wounding you 1 sec earlier but dying? Everyone who likes/plays Halo games, is used to the timer already. I could understand shaving a couple seconds off maybe... but none at all?
Random weapons spawns? WHAT? Another staple of Halo, gone. Part of what makes the game what it is, is fighting over certain choke points and rushing for certain weapons at different times. It keeps the battle going at a steady pace and flow, not a random clusterfuck like this sounds. Someone being outgunned can be hand delivered a rocket launcher or sniper?
Armor Abilities back? Yuck. The jetpack in Reach already helped kill the Halo-esque pace and weapon race, now with random weapon spawns, this sounds like a poorer/worse version of Unreal Tournament. Not to mention the SEE THROUGH WALLS thing. Makes no sense. And using "spartan points" to get armor abilities is bullshit.
Drop-in gameplay may sound neat, but since I'm almost certain they won't include a server browser, this will be nothing but a source of frustration.
This may be the first Halo game I don't buy. Just dreadful decision making all-around for 343 if these are true. Taking Halo "back to it's roots" my ass.
Instant respawns takes away what makes Halo, Halo. And with Halo's terrible spawns... what happens when you're playing CTF and the enemies can spawn immediately and kill you after wounding you 1 sec earlier but dying? Everyone who likes/plays Halo games, is used to the timer already. I could understand shaving a couple seconds off maybe... but none at all?
Random weapons spawns? WHAT? Another staple of Halo, gone. Part of what makes the game what it is, is fighting over certain choke points and rushing for certain weapons at different times. It keeps the battle going at a steady pace and flow, not a random clusterfuck like this sounds. Someone being outgunned can be hand delivered a rocket launcher or sniper?
Armor Abilities back? Yuck. The jetpack in Reach already helped kill the Halo-esque pace and weapon race, now with random weapon spawns, this sounds like a poorer/worse version of Unreal Tournament. Not to mention the SEE THROUGH WALLS thing. Makes no sense. And using "spartan points" to get armor abilities is bullshit.
Drop-in gameplay may sound neat, but since I'm almost certain they won't include a server browser, this will be nothing but a source of frustration.
This may be the first Halo game I don't buy. Just dreadful decision making all-around for 343 if these are true. Taking Halo "back to it's roots" my ass.
I'm the same way, I almost always play matches to completion no matter what. But you end up in a lot of shitty unfun matches like that, where it ends up being just you and another random teammate competing against a full team of eight players. And at that point it's a chore to finish the match - you have no chance of winning or holding them off (unless your opponents suck) and it's a complete waste of twenty minutes.
Join in progress solves all that and ensures full matches with fair teams. It can potentially mess with your win/loss statistics a bit if partial matches are counted, like you pointed out, but that's a very minor issue in the grand scheme of things.
Phonomezer
Banned
Just saw the scans, wowowowowowowowow.
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
I don't think it's a "maybe". If they don't have it, the MP is basically ruined. These customization options are great, as long as they're options. I still want to play Halo the way I want to play it, not how 343 wants me to.
KidA Seven
Member
But that is why the matchmaking system must separate the beginners from the pro players. It never makes sense to dumb down the game because beginners playing beginners won't be affected by skillful mechanics since they will be at the same level skill wise. For example, if you give us AR/BR starts, the pro players who can 4 shot won't be playing beginners who will take like 8-9 shots to kill a player. Beginners can still use the AR against other beginners because their BR skill isn't at a level where it's definitely the go to weapon. They won't be affected by controlling weapons/power ups because they won't know the times, and neither will their opponents. They won't know how to control spawns, and so on and so on. As long as True skill works (lol?) then it doesn't make sense to make it more random for the casual players.
I just don't like the idea of splitting up the player base. I want Vanilla reach to be as skilled as possible. There is no reason why casual players can't enjoy playing the same game as skilled players. Street Fighter, Starcraft 2, etc... all achieve this. Why can't Halo?
Demoncarnotaur
Member
You'll never get a date with Cortana with that attitude!
I personally don't think it will be ruined, it just won't be the classic Halo that fans want. I am sure there will be plenty of options in there that have more classic choices. Unless 343 really do want to piss of their fans, then god help them.
I hope they go back to the 1-50 Ranking for Halo 4. How all of the choices pan out, we will find out but since there is no Beta, it will be a long wait.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
More copies are out in the wild now..awaiting details.
It will take more than blue paint to make her see through and have her inside your head!
It will take more than blue paint to make her see through and have her inside your head!
Instant respawns, random weapon drops and using points to unlock armor abilities are some of the worst things I could possibly hear about the multiplayer in this game. Honestly it sounds like they are trying to make it more like call of duty. Wonder if they will be increasing the weapon damage and getting rid of shields too?
Random weapon spawns sounds pretty bad. Let's make learning about the game less valuable, great idea really. And to claim it will help newer players, while adding a currency system with gameplay altering upgrades is contradictory.
Active camo returning also makes me sad. Although it sounds like this forerunner vision should let you see the camo users, which would make me happy.
Active camo returning also makes me sad. Although it sounds like this forerunner vision should let you see the camo users, which would make me happy.
Holy crap!? I thought they said they were designing Halo 4 with competitive multiplayer in mind? Maybe they meant 'We are designing Halo 4 with destroying competitive multiplayer in mind.'
Having played Halo 2 and Halo 3 pretty much on the highest competitive levels in Europe (stealth brag), these changes look absolutely horrible. Every time something random is introduced in an area of a competitive (sport)game it's the worst thing that can happen. Remember the outrage when people found out about the random bullet spread of the BR in Halo 3? The bloom in Reach also didn't work very well for competitive MP because of the randomness. Every time someone gets an edge over the opponent because of sheer luck and randomness is terrible, having random power weapon spawns is the worst idea I have ever heard. Making strategies pretty much useless in the game and either giving an possible edge to either the better team making it easier to dominate the other team, or giving an edge to the worse team giving them some possibilities to win even though they are less skilled then the other team.
Also having instant spawns wtf? They would have to alter the entire gameplay of a Halo game to make a competitive game of CTF or any objective game in Halo work with instant spawns, like BF sized maps but that's just boring. The best moment to try to capture an enemy flag is when they have 3 or 4 down on their team. Killing 3 or 4 people obviously mean your team is weakened by this fight and the enemy would continue to spawn on their side of the map, instantly... making it absolutely impossible to capture a flag. Introduce instant spawns in any Halo game right now and not even the best players in the world could capture a flag against the worst players in the world.
I myself didn't really like the armor abilities in Halo Reach, and I thought having sprint in competitive also hurt it but I can live with it being standard I guess. :/
I had such high hopes for Halo 4 and i343 but those are crushed. Halo's competitive MP will continue being dead for me.
(I have a feeling this post contains a lot of broken ass sentences so sorry for that haha)
Having played Halo 2 and Halo 3 pretty much on the highest competitive levels in Europe (stealth brag), these changes look absolutely horrible. Every time something random is introduced in an area of a competitive (sport)game it's the worst thing that can happen. Remember the outrage when people found out about the random bullet spread of the BR in Halo 3? The bloom in Reach also didn't work very well for competitive MP because of the randomness. Every time someone gets an edge over the opponent because of sheer luck and randomness is terrible, having random power weapon spawns is the worst idea I have ever heard. Making strategies pretty much useless in the game and either giving an possible edge to either the better team making it easier to dominate the other team, or giving an edge to the worse team giving them some possibilities to win even though they are less skilled then the other team.
Also having instant spawns wtf? They would have to alter the entire gameplay of a Halo game to make a competitive game of CTF or any objective game in Halo work with instant spawns, like BF sized maps but that's just boring. The best moment to try to capture an enemy flag is when they have 3 or 4 down on their team. Killing 3 or 4 people obviously mean your team is weakened by this fight and the enemy would continue to spawn on their side of the map, instantly... making it absolutely impossible to capture a flag. Introduce instant spawns in any Halo game right now and not even the best players in the world could capture a flag against the worst players in the world.
I myself didn't really like the armor abilities in Halo Reach, and I thought having sprint in competitive also hurt it but I can live with it being standard I guess. :/
I had such high hopes for Halo 4 and i343 but those are crushed. Halo's competitive MP will continue being dead for me.
(I have a feeling this post contains a lot of broken ass sentences so sorry for that haha)
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
So far most of the stuff sounds like the stuff you'd get with a hacked server, I can see why Payton felt they weren't making anything new.