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DF Retro: Metal Gear Solid 2 - A Kojima Masterpiece
- Thread starter Theorry
- Start date
Killing_Joke
Member
Eh, almost every MGS does this. 4 just had the unfortunate task of piecing every damn hole in the franchise together.
Yes and no. I hated Raiden - still do - and the first person controls were junk. They're still junk, but I loved the HD collection just to go through it all over again.
I like them all nearly equally for vastly different reasons mainly because they're vastly different games. Except the original MGS. Climbing all those flights of stairs in bullet hell is some of the cheapest BS design of all the games.
I like them all nearly equally for vastly different reasons mainly because they're vastly different games. Except the original MGS. Climbing all those flights of stairs in bullet hell is some of the cheapest BS design of all the games.
Sectorseven
Member
Probably chock that up to early 3D game design. MG2 had a very similar scene that they were clearly drawing inspiration from.
Either PS2 on a real PS2 or via emulation.
The actual PC version sucks even with the fan patch, which does improve it a fair bit.
Somebody should write a hyperbole magnitude analysis algorithm for text using known keywords/phrases and it should be run on all neogaf threads with the results displayed in real-time. It would be fascinating to see how topics involving certain developers/franchises/etc scored relative to others over time. I predict Kojima stuff would end up somewhere near the top.
I'll watch it but strongly disagree. It's the worst of the series for me, i feel ill thinking about the big shell. God awful level design compared to MGS1.
Some nice ideas, wonderful foresight by Kojima about the war economy, but i do not have fond memories of playing the game, low point of the series.
3 > 1 > 5 (best playing though) > 4 >>>>>> 2
Some nice ideas, wonderful foresight by Kojima about the war economy, but i do not have fond memories of playing the game, low point of the series.
3 > 1 > 5 (best playing though) > 4 >>>>>> 2
i've just pmed dark10x requesting that he takes down his video. i await his response but hopefully he will change his opinion now.
IronicSonic
Member
Best MGS for me. Superb video as usual
One can tell Shenmue series and Metal Gear Solid 2 have a special place in your heart Jhon
One can tell Shenmue series and Metal Gear Solid 2 have a special place in your heart Jhon
R_thanatos
Member
I didn't have a PS2 at the time nor an xbox so i first played this game on pc with a ati rage pro mixed with a voodoo 1 card . At low resolution it worked very great I was really surprised that the game could run with such card ( they weren't strong at the time ) and the framrate was actually solid until ... that underwater sequence with raiden ...
The pc version also lacked that weird video on the top right thanks to a graphical bug .. oh the fond times.
The pc version also lacked that weird video on the top right thanks to a graphical bug .. oh the fond times.
Nachtfalke
Member
Great video!
I replayed the game with emulation some months ago and I would call it the best version all around. Haven't had any graphical glitches at all, but you can tweak pcsx2 alot so it's just a matter of configuration. I also tried the HD remaster, but it has some shortcommings as mentioned in the video. But it's still a good version.
A true legit definitve version with all effects in place and no trade offs would be fantastic, though. But that's not gonna happen anymore I guess.
(And something like MGS 4 could REALLY benefit from a newer PC port or PS4 remaster. Hopefully PS3 emulation will save the day sometime in the future...)
I replayed the game with emulation some months ago and I would call it the best version all around. Haven't had any graphical glitches at all, but you can tweak pcsx2 alot so it's just a matter of configuration. I also tried the HD remaster, but it has some shortcommings as mentioned in the video. But it's still a good version.
A true legit definitve version with all effects in place and no trade offs would be fantastic, though. But that's not gonna happen anymore I guess.
(And something like MGS 4 could REALLY benefit from a newer PC port or PS4 remaster. Hopefully PS3 emulation will save the day sometime in the future...)
they were realistic in how they played. One or two shots you died. It played like a tom Clancy game. AI was good for what they did. Mgs AI wasn't that too complicated as well. I literally would run around a corner hide in a box and they'll walk pass like nothing lol they both had ok AI. But splinter cell didn't have giant robots, naked guy running around with a vibro blade, and a non realistic story.
Ceadeus
Gold Member
Hum. No
I think MGS AI is designed to be fun to play with, first and foremost. They do not act completely realistically and that is the point. The original Thief games succeeded in the same way, though they were less complex than MGS AI.
I think Splinter Cell games tended to lack a middle-ground - the enemies were either on full attack or oblivious. You couldn't really play with them, so to speak.
It still worked well enough but I do feel the games were more rigid overall as a result.
metalslimer
Member
Wow at that Vita port framerate drop. MGS2 was actually my first MGS game. I still have fond memories of it and it translates pretty well to today. It has its problems but it is still a top 10 PS2 game.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
I still remember picking up MGS2.
Came with "The Document of MGS2" DVD....
Except, the shop had put two copies of the DVD in the case, rather than the DVD and game.
Game was fantastic though.
I think the initial disappointment of playing as Raiden has completely been replaced with admiration now I understand the reason behind it and how it tied into the narrative.
That rain in the Tanker level though. So good. Still amazing.
Came with "The Document of MGS2" DVD....
Except, the shop had put two copies of the DVD in the case, rather than the DVD and game.
Game was fantastic though.
I think the initial disappointment of playing as Raiden has completely been replaced with admiration now I understand the reason behind it and how it tied into the narrative.
That rain in the Tanker level though. So good. Still amazing.
Stereogatari
Banned
Oh yes. Gonna watch this with breakfast/lunch tomorrow.
fabricated backlash
Member
MGS2 has one of the best mixes of tech innovation and art direction.
In every single instance, the tech is there to serve gameplay and world building, and every single art decision is there to make sure that where the tech would fall short to pick up the slack and keep the illusion intact.
Other games had more impressive models, effects or stronger art direction, but I have a very hard time to find another game that has such an effective marriage of art and tech.
Despite not liking the game all that much, I absolutely have a massive amount of respect for it's execution.
In every single instance, the tech is there to serve gameplay and world building, and every single art decision is there to make sure that where the tech would fall short to pick up the slack and keep the illusion intact.
Other games had more impressive models, effects or stronger art direction, but I have a very hard time to find another game that has such an effective marriage of art and tech.
Despite not liking the game all that much, I absolutely have a massive amount of respect for it's execution.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Funny I'd say 3 was actually a step back compared to 2.
the order goes in release order
1>2>>3>4>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>5
Outside of the pure and refined gameplay of MGS in 5, the game was shit I didn't even finish it and thats blasphemy to me.
MGS ends at 4 and 5 is unnecessary, 3 just the feels like it should have came before 2.
My personal favorites go 1>2>4>3.
Everything you say about 2 applies to 3 to me, I have played MGS3 multiple times and I know the game and other than choosing to end The End early or not its a pretty straight forward experience, MGS2 however I played too many times and the HD release shocked me as I saw something new again which I didn't think was possible.
everything to even the guard AI is far superior in 2.
MGS2 was and is the pinnacle of the series.
DevilSnake
Member
Enjoyed watching this, I played that tanker demo hundreds of times when I was younger, also still hate Raiden to this day. MGSV was a huge step down in terms of story, environments & level design for me, sure it was open world but 80% of it was barren, give me a well crafted tanker, oil rig or alaskan base any day.
Also, was the 100s of enemies in the design documentation really completely dropped? I thought it was referencing avoiding everyone in the tanker briefing in front of Ray, not so much gunfighting with them all. There's still not 100s there, but still.
Also, was the 100s of enemies in the design documentation really completely dropped? I thought it was referencing avoiding everyone in the tanker briefing in front of Ray, not so much gunfighting with them all. There's still not 100s there, but still.
With the hardware back then you can only do so much. And I was able to play with the AI. You had things like gadgets to distract enemies and lure them around a level. There were so many options to play it. Look at all the videos of players beating the game with no kills, or all kills, no alarms raised and such. I remember in Choas Theory I lured one guy away and took him out. Then another enemy would notice he was gone since he didn't answer his radio and came looking around. Splinter cell were very much sand box
But not only that in terms of graphics Splinter cell were top in their game. Chaos theory was like a 360 game ported to OG Xbox
The Last One
Member
Man this is really amazing and sad to me. I wish we would get another Kojima's Metal Gear =(
Yautja_Warrior
Member
MGS2 is a always going to be a conflicting game to me, on one hand it was a brilliant game but I could never connect with Raiden (at least not until MS4 / Rising) he just wasn't as cool as Solid Snake.
tomwhite2004
Member
Tried running it in PCSX2 with a GTX950 and in hardware mode could only run in native resolution without seeing frame drops (opening cut scene tested), my cpu was around 20% at all times so know that isn't the bottle neck.
Can you or anyone else say what gpu I would need to get to achieve a locked 3x internal resolution?
Beerman462
Member
Weird seeing the sentiment that MGS4 and 5 are the worst MGS games. Five was the only one I've finished except the first. Giant Bomb praised 4 so much a while back that I bought it. I never finished it and barely played a couple hours.
SolidSnakex
Member
The escape sequence was definitely removed because Kojima didn't think it was fun. He said the water escape sequence was technically possible, but all you did was run away from it and if it touched Snake the game would end and you'd have to start over.
ASilentProtagonist
Member
Best MGS game, and of my all time favorites! I love these videos.
bender
What time is it?
Great episode. The MGS2 demo was mind blowing and it's the best part of the game. I probably played the demo more than I played the final game. It was such a wonderful little sandbox (shooting up the bar, melting ice cubes, catching a cold, etc). The narrative in the final game is great and I respect the hell out of the big reveal that Kojima and team pulled off (something probably not possible in this day and age) but replaying the game is such a chore. I'm not fan of Raiden but playing as Snake wouldn't have made Big Shell more interesting or the boss battles any less terrible. After adoring MGS, MGS2 gave me a reason to want a PS2 so badly and it is also the reason I almost skipped MGS3. What a mistake that would have been.
I still have my copy of Document of Metal Gear Solid 2. It was so much fun looking at the development timeline, cut content, and full cutscene/model viewers.
Edit: When I picked it up 15 years ago, it was a nice learning tool for me when it came to understanding how to set up a scene and animate it in a 3D space.
Edit: When I picked it up 15 years ago, it was a nice learning tool for me when it came to understanding how to set up a scene and animate it in a 3D space.
I played the game on PC unpatched and the controls were indeed terrible, mainly as it plays only by the keyboard.
I've heard people complaining about bugs and glitches on that version but don't remember that ever being a problem, it was always the controls, first person aiming was particularly dificult with the keys.
The game only uses the mouse on the final boss fight, you swing the sword around by moving the mouse while moving Raiden with the arrow keys, it was incredibly awkward to play.
That and the lack of widescreen support are the only problems with the port, they should do a small update and put it on Steam, alongside Metal Gear Solid: Integral.
I've heard people complaining about bugs and glitches on that version but don't remember that ever being a problem, it was always the controls, first person aiming was particularly dificult with the keys.
The game only uses the mouse on the final boss fight, you swing the sword around by moving the mouse while moving Raiden with the arrow keys, it was incredibly awkward to play.
That and the lack of widescreen support are the only problems with the port, they should do a small update and put it on Steam, alongside Metal Gear Solid: Integral.
CosmicRomancer
Member
I think it's tough to call between the 1st three games. 4 felt a mess narratively but it had super tight gameplay while retaining some of that familiar focused level design; there were some great hair-raising moments too. I just regret that there was not enough gameplay.
V felt like a massive missed opportunity. It's hard not to feel disappointed coming off of Ground Zeroes despite the amazing gameplay and artistic direction from Kojima.
V felt like a massive missed opportunity. It's hard not to feel disappointed coming off of Ground Zeroes despite the amazing gameplay and artistic direction from Kojima.
God I love this series so much, great work as always John Played through MGS2 for the first time on the HD collection and was amazed how well it had aged, especially knowing it was mostly 60fps on the PS2. The attention to detail is pretty astonishing throughout, the game can be picked apart for certain things (that waaaay too long dialogue with the president) but there's undeniably impressive craftmanship in its design + execution.
Ha, that honestly sounds kind of weirdly amazing, certainly experimental and almost Wii-esque.
Played through MGS2 for the first time on the HD collection and was amazed how well it had aged, especially knowing it was mostly 60fps on the PS2. The attention to detail is pretty astonishing throughout, the game can be picked apart for certain things (that waaaay too long dialogue with the president) but there's undeniably impressive craftmanship in its design + execution.Ōkami;234527731 said:
Ha, that honestly sounds kind of weirdly amazing, certainly experimental and almost Wii-esque.
comshoplesce
Member
is this for PC too?
Yep, you're right. I ran across that bit after writing the script. He seemed to say that they were pushing to include it until the end but it was never fun. Nice that the effect remained in the game anyways.
Hmm, I captured using a GTX980ti and was able to run 3x or 4x resolution without issue. From what I understand, though, MGS2 is one of the more demanding games to run at full frame-rate.
Human Trashcan
Banned
I'm amazed this game ran as well as it did on the freaking PS2
sleepnaught
Member
This. I still think MGS1 is the best by far.
PC version if you're willing to jump through a few hoops to patch a few issues.
Yeah...you're not wrong.
Going through the ending bits again, I was surprised at how relevant it has become. Digital information manipulation being "fake news" and the surrounding issues, for one thing.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
That was an amazing episode dark10x, the best yet. Excellent job.
MGS2 is still my least favourite, couldn't stand the monotony of the oil rig. In fact I gave up on it back when it was released and only decided to complete it a couple of years ago when the HD version released on PS3. I'm still keen as to watch the video, Kojima is a visionary.