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All your WiFi devices are broken, Android/Linux devices particularly devastated

K

Kinokou

Member
Somnid said:
This was always possible because GAF lacks TLS encryption (https). And on that note WPA is more to protect from people getting into your network, it's not really content protection, that is usually handled by a higher level network protocol like TLS.
Click to expand...

The Albatross said:
Yep, probably



Sort of, as it would work the same as the first one, mostly by watching your traffic.



Probably not. It's not impossible, just more difficult to intercept your post request as it's being submitted and then resubmit with something else. Not impossible, but just the effort involved is a good deal higher.



No



On Gaf, maybe, because Gaf doesn't use https:// which it really should. The password submission is still encrypted and salted, but the encryption method is usually pretty dated on forum software like this, and if a hacker is going through the trouble to snoop your traffic on a site like neogaf they'd likely be able to get the encryption key, which they could then use to decrypt your password as it's submitted. But, if you've logged in someplace where you're using a more private wifi (say like, at your house where it's unlikely that someone is sitting in your driveway snooping your data), then you're probably using a cookie to stay logged in. A hacker could snoop this cookie as it's passed over to neogaf, but most websites that deal with anything require more than just the cookie to pretend to be someone else, and will require another login.



No, the password is only passed once when you log in. For websites that use https:// this is even less likely, but of course, NeoGaf does not use https://
Click to expand...

Thank you for taking the time to add answers. Today is a day I learn it seems
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
The Albatross said:
The flaw is in WPA2, which is one of the more common types of WiFi security. If your router has WPA2 it doesn't mean it's shitty, most of the best routers available that cost several hundred dollars also pack WPA2.
Click to expand...

Ah ok, for some reason I was getting WEP and WPA mixed up. Well damn, at least it's not an outdated type. Now to see if we're getting an update today. I'm almost tempted to call BT but getting the call escalated to the people that matter would take weeks anyway.
 
A

aravuus

Member
Just realized that ever since I upgraded to an unlimited 4G data plan with my Android phone, my iPad and Kindle are the only devices I use wifi on, and I guess neither is particularly vulnerable to this?
 
E

Euphoria14

Member
Quick question, I have an iPhone and i'm guessing it's vulnerable.

Now, while paying bills through my phone, is it safe to do so over my LTE?


Also, would it be advised that while billing from my laptop I connect it to the router with an ethernet cable?

Just looking for the safest routes at the moment.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Akronis said:
Does this exploit affect both WPA2-Personal and WPA2-Enterprise? Sounds like this is just WPA2-Personal.
Click to expand...

Per the Q&A

I'm using WPA2 with only AES. That's also vulnerable?

Yes, that network configuration is also vulnerable. The attack works against both WPA1 and WPA2, against personal and enterprise networks, and against any cipher suite being used (WPA-TKIP, AES-CCMP, and GCMP). So everyone should update their devices to prevent the attack!
Click to expand...
 
C

close to the edge

Member
Krakatoa said:
I'd like to know this as well, from my understanding it only exposes WPA-2 Personal, but I'd like some confirmation.
Click to expand...

The attack affects the handshake part of the protocol, which means all variants of WPA are affected. Quote from https://www.krackattacks.com/
This implies all these networks are affected by (some variant of) our attack. For instance, the attack works against personal and enterprise Wi-Fi networks, against the older WPA and the latest WPA2 standard, and even against networks that only use AES.
Click to expand...
 
S

Somnid

Member
Euphoria14 said:
Quick question, I have an iPhone and i'm guessing it's vulnerable.

Now, while paying bills through my phone, is it safe to do so over my LTE?


Also, would it be advised that while billing from my laptop I connect it to the router with an ethernet cable?

Just looking for the safest routes at the moment.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter. That is usually protected with TLS (https) which a secure connection between your computer and the server. It would still be safe even on an openly shared network.

Also, people on mobile data should worry more about companies simply selling their data:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/10/15/m...-your-number-and-location-to-anyone-who-pays/
 
S

Shauni

Member
So, basically, if I understand right, anything used with WiFi is potentially at harm until those devices are patched by the companies (laptops, phones, etc.)?
 
P

Plum

Member
This needs to front page news tbh. Internet safety and anti-hacking measures are something the vast majority of people don't know jack shit about, keeping this to tech websites with tech jargon (thanks for clarifying that, btw) is preaching to the choir, and we need to do more than that.
 
E

epmode

Member
Slime said:
So to be clear, someone would basically have to connect to your router to creep on you? Would a program like this help to verify if a rogue device is on your network?
Click to expand...

I believe this vulnerability allows attackers to intercept packets between your router and your device. The attacker does not have to connect to your network to do it.

edit: The attacker still needs to be in range of your wifi device, however!
 
U

UpDownLeftRight

Banned
epmode said:
I believe this vulnerability allows attackers to intercept packets between your router and your device. The attacker does not have to connect to your network to do it.



Yes. MS says they’ve already patched the vulnerability so I assume anyone with a fully updated Windows 7/8/10 is safe.
Click to expand...

Wait, I thought it was local only?
 
T

The Albatross

Member
Euphoria14 said:
Quick question, I have an iPhone and i'm guessing it's vulnerable.

Now, while paying bills through my phone, is it safe to do so over my LTE?


Also, would it be advised that while billing from my laptop I connect it to the router with an ethernet cable?

Just looking for the safest routes at the moment.
Click to expand...

It's probably likely that your bill payer is secured via TLS (https://), so that data is encrypted between your device and the server. If you're paying bills through any service that doesn't use TLS (https://) then you've always been at risk, and you should stop using that service.

I mean, it's always a risk. There's risk involved in anything, it's just a question of how much effort you want to go through to mitigate risk. There's risk in sending a check in the mail, there's risk in handing someone cash for something. There's risk in carrying your credit card in your wallet.

The safest way, given this, would be to use something like Android Pay, Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, etc., along with an ethernet connection, on an https:// connected service. But, let's be honest, if you haven't thought about updating your router's security, or your modem's security, or anything else, in the last 5 years, then who knows there's probably some exploit somewhere by somebody who wants to get that data. Or maybe the bill payer you use has an employee who has access to secure data (probably not financial data, but still) and they connect to their company's network via WiFi, and then however secure you make yourself there's still some risk.

epmode said:
I believe this vulnerability allows attackers to intercept packets between your router and your device. The attacker does not have to connect to your network to do it.
Click to expand...

UpDownLeftRight said:
Wait, I thought it was local only?
Click to expand...

They still have to have some sort of connection to your router, but I think epmode means they don't have to show up as an approved device using your router, but they'd have to be within range of the Wifi signal to do this. They're not "connected" to your wifi like how you'd think of a friend using your Wifi via their iPhone or something, but they still have to be within range of the signal. Like, someone in Jakarta could not connect to your insecure router in Omaha Nebraska and snoop data from it.

Now, obviously, with sophisticated devices and with what someone is trying to get from it, the 'range' of your router is much greater than with typical consumer devices. With a typical consumer device, phone, laptop, IoT device, console, etc., the "range" is much shorter because the devices are expecting you to be doing something with the router like playing a game or sending photos, which requires a fairly strong signal, so maybe a couple hundred feet or something. But, if the device is trying to snoop packets coming and going, then it doesn't need as strong of a connection and so the range extends much further than that, especially with something that is designed to do this (like security tools from the FBI or any infosec group)
 
A

Aiii

So not worth it
emag said:
Engadget doesn't know what they're talking about. Given that the attacker is targeting the client by replaying/spoofing messages, the vulnerability cannot be mitigated by any router-only patches.
Click to expand...

No, if your router is patched, your unpatched client device is protected on that network as well. Just how it is, if one of the devices in the handshake is patched for the vulnerability, the exploit is rendered useless, since you can no longer keep forcing keys in the 4-way handshake and thus can no longer intercept the traffic.
 
D

Drazgul

Member
Safe for now if I just disable wifi altogether on my Nexus 5? Not like I use it much anyway and I've unlimited mobile data.
 
R

red731

Member
Ayyy.

Well, since I can't check any open wifi and if it was fixed no open wifis for me for a long time.
Already told that to, wife, family, IT and will do steps on whatever router parents have.

My MikroTik router seems safe.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
The more I read on it, the more I'm thinking this really won't affect properly implemented WPA2-ENT environments. This hijacks the connection, with a MITM, which in a proper Enterprise environment shouldn't be possible, as you've setup your clients to only connect to a certain SSID and verifying the Certificate issuer during handshake.

Unless the hijack starts after the client has verified the certificate issuer...

Not that all clients and AP shouldn't be patched immediately, just that enterprises IT-security might not have to sweat bullets for a few days.
 
G

Gai Murakumo

Member
The wonders of modern technology am I right? It is still shitty that hackers still go after the little man just for some quick cash, stealing information etc.
 
S

StarCreator

Member
Thankfully I have a recent Sony phone and they have been way more on the ball about patching in the latest Android security patches than other phone manufacturers I have used phones from. My phone is on the October 1, 2017 patch level and apparently a fix on Google's end will be in the November patches, if Sony doesn't get to it themselves first.

Still going to push an update to my Unifi AP when I get home.
 
L

linkboy

Member
Paganmoon said:
The more I read on it, the more I'm thinking this really won't affect properly implemented WPA2-ENT environments. This hijacks the connection, with a MITM, which in a proper Enterprise environment shouldn't be possible, as you've setup your clients to only connect to a certain SSID and verifying the Certificate issuer during handshake.

Unless the hijack starts after the client has verified the certificate issuer...

Not that all clients and AP shouldn't be patched immediately, just that enterprises IT-security might not have to sweat bullets for a few days.
Click to expand...

I think the big issue will be public WiFi like coffee shops. Doesn't look like it would be to hard for someone to spoof a network in the parking lot and just mine data.
 
M

mullet2000

Member
So to be clear, as a user there's nothing I can do outside of not using WiFi and waiting for Windows/Android/router/etc updates?

Will devices such as the Switch, 3DS, Vita, etc, just forever be unsafe now if they don't get updated?

My PC is a wired connection that goes into my router, also. Is that also unsafe?
 
R

RumblingRosco

Member
mullet2000 said:
So to be clear, as a user there's nothing I can do outside of not using WiFi and waiting for Windows/Android/router/etc updates?

Will devices such as the Switch, 3DS, Vita, etc, just forever be unsafe now if they don't get updated?

My PC is a wired connection that goes into my router, also. Is that also unsafe?
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is what I'm wondering. Is there a "to-do" list of some sort for the average user? How do I protect my Android phone, my laptop, while at work, my home WiFi network, etc?
 
D

darkwing

Member
mullet2000 said:
So to be clear, as a user there's nothing I can do outside of not using WiFi and waiting for Windows/Android/router/etc updates?

Will devices such as the Switch, 3DS, Vita, etc, just forever be unsafe now if they don't get updated?

My PC is a wired connection that goes into my router, also. Is that also unsafe?
Click to expand...

technically, consoles have to be updated too to be safe
 
R

Random Human

They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
I have an old Android tablet I use as a "remote" for Chromecast - that's literally all I use it for. Is this insecure now? It sends no personal data beyond what I'm watching on Netflix or YouTube. However, the device is linked to my google account. Should I stop using it?
 
D

darkwing

Member
Random Human said:
I have an old Android tablet I use as a "remote" for Chromecast - that's literally all I use it for. Is this insecure now? It sends no personal data beyond what I'm watching on Netflix or YouTube. However, the device is linked to my google account. Should I stop using it?
Click to expand...

are you using it in public places?
 
K

Kill Your Masters

Member
Random Human said:
I have an old Android tablet I use as a "remote" for Chromecast - that's literally all I use it for. Is this insecure now? It sends no personal data beyond what I'm watching on Netflix or YouTube. However, the device is linked to my google account. Should I stop using it?
Click to expand...

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but this does only affect you if you get attacked at close proximity?

So if you have known hackers in your neighbourhood or if hackers want to come to get you then yes.

Otherwise, probably not?

This type of fearmongering is the equivalent of all the Space news with "gorundbreaking" discoveries where you think aliens are about to invade but then they just found two stars colliding or some shit. The experts make it sound like your wifi can be hacked with a "press to hack" button from anywhere in the world.
 
V

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
They have to be on site so to speak for the attack it seems.

Don't worry so much about your home as WiFi stuff for business especially small business.

Things like WiFi security cameras or point of sale systems or whatever even beyond just public networks.
 
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