Support NeoGAF

Trailblaster · Mar 10, 2010

Hero said:
Fixed that for you, junior.

Sorry you didn't fix shit.

Motion control was a reality on the PS2 with Eyetoy long before the Wii. Sony isn't late to anything. They maybe picking up the ball they dropped but there no doubt that Sony brought the ball to the game in the first place.

And lets get something else straght, Although to my knowlege Sony never called the Wii and Gimmick I sure as hell will. The Wiimote before M+ gimmicky as shit. The pointer was the only useful thing about it and M+ fixed a lot of thing that should have been their from the start.

Put that in your wiimote condom and waggle it.

rollingstart · Mar 10, 2010

SamBishop said:
Give it a few more hours, dude. You'll know plenty more about applications soon.

oh, I'm hoping for it. Everything I'm saying is about how people have been and are currently looking at the device. In a few hours, what I'm saying and most of the speculation will be irrelevent...hopefully.

Lonely1 · Mar 10, 2010

Trailblaster said:
Sorry you didn't fix shit.

Motion control was a reality on the PS2 with Eyetoy long before the Wii. Sony isn't late to anything. They maybe picking up the ball they dropped but there no doubt that Sony brought the ball to the game in the first place.

And lets get something else straght, Although to my knowlege Sony never called the Wii and Gimmick I sure as hell will. The Wiimote before M+ gimmicky as shit. The pointer was the only useful thing about it and M+ fixed a lot of thing that should have been their from the start.

Put that in your wiimote condom and waggle it.

And Sega Activator was before that. Nintendo get the props for making motion controls their primary input method and succeding.

Lonely1 · Mar 10, 2010

neorej said:
You haven't used the Wiimote much, have you?

I do, infact. Probably way more than you. What exaclty what are you saying that It can't do? FPSes? RTSes? Sword?

What it can't do is the agumented reality stuff due lack of camera.

Sidewinder · Mar 10, 2010

Linkzg said:
Right now this is biggest fault of how Sony is showing this thing off. You have some people here who see that and are "sold" by the the little toss gif. You have others who are thinking more about accuracy and potential capability of the controllers. And then there are people like the poster above who probably need more context to show them why it any of this matters.

Yeah, it is crazy accurate and on paper much better than the Wii remote, but in practice what does that mean? show off some games that make you see why it is that much better. With Natal, they have been showing off that ball hitting demo since the unveiling and it shows you that it both can get a read of your whole body and gives an idea of how it would work in a game. Not saying any solution is better or worse here, just how they're presented.

Really, just one game demo can sell this thing to people (non-fanboys) but right now it's a lot of tech this and potential that.

I don't really see how MS has shown more actual gameplay examples than Sony. They just showed it with one true game (Burnout), the ball hitting thing isn't anymore or less a tech demo than the many little Sony Wand applications we've seen so far. Oh and by the way RE5 was showcased with the Sony Wand too right?

As a side note, I'm far more impressed by the Wand stuff than the quirky Natal implementation we've seen yet. Airsteering, stepforwardaccelerating/stepbackwardbreaking and jumping around like a madman isn't something I'm looking forward to at all.

EDIT:

What MS did manage to do better than Sony is PR and Marketing of Natal and IMHO it's because of the "novelty" of the approach and the technical prowess of the full body scanning, certainly not because of pure gameplay überpawnage. Sonys idea seems to be just a 1:1 copy of the Nintendo Wii, so not interesting at all for many people.

SamBishop · Mar 10, 2010

Monty Mole said:
Oh you're being naughty

Naw, just trying to stifle some of the return to the same cycle of comments:

-"Blah blah, tech demos... Show me some GAMES!"
-"It's still like half a year-plus away, dingus. Wait for E3!"
-"Sony still isn't talking about things. Microsoft's been pimping Natal since E3 -- Jimmy Fallon played it!"
-"Well, let's all just wait for E3..."
-"Why, so we can see more tech demos? Sony don't know what they're doing!"
-"It's still half..."
...And so on until we all go insaaaaane.

I'm just letting you know this whole line of debate/discussion will come to an end (at least partially) tomorrow, so no need to go down that road again.

[edit] Fuuuuuuuck, like clockwork, it's already started.

angelcage87 · Mar 10, 2010

Hey you,sony developer.Yes,i'm talking to you.

Now,listen to me.Go to your boss,whoever that person is,and tell him that your studio is going to develop a new bushido blade arc based.

Don't give him explanations,or any kind of choice.You ARE going to develop a new bushido blade with motion controls,and that is all.

After you finish develop the game,you will not remember anything about this post,the only thing you will know is that you were looking at the Official hot women thread and you fell asleep.

Now,go.

neorej · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
I do, infact. Probably way more than you. What exaclty what are you saying that It can't do? FPSes? RTSes? Sword?

What it can't do is the agumented reality stuff due lack of camera.

Yeah, probably. Here's what it can't do and Arc/Wand/Gem/Jem/whatever can: precision. Even with Motion+ the Wiimote is dodgy at best. Everything Sony has shown of their motion controller is that it's highly precise. And that, my friend, gives it a notch or 3 over the Wiimote. Don't worry, I'll still play my Mario Kart, Mario Party, Red Steel 2, Mario Galaxies and Madworld.

rollingstart · Mar 10, 2010

neorej said:
I think these so-called tech-demos do a better job at showing the gaming potential than what MS pulled with Natal (flailing limbs version of Breakout, tacked on Natal for Burnout Paradise resulting in dodgy controls). This stuff actually works and shows the responsiveness. All MS has shown is that Natal is not done yet and you can expect more Wii-like shovelware with games like Flailing Limbs Breakout.

again, I'm not speaking for myself here, but what they have been showing is what people want to see. You have this one guy posting here saying that the Wii remote can do the same things as what is shown in the tech demos, which is factually wrong (not to say the Sony thing can do everything the Wii remote can). Speaking not of the devices but of the presentation.

I think what I'm trying to say is lost because I'm really tired right now

oh, and honestly, augmented reality for home console gaming is a gimmick until someone makes a fucking awesome horror game that has a video feed of your living room and occasionally makes it seem like there is a person sneaking up on you. I'm just saying that someone needs to get on that.

Sidewinder said:
What MS did manage to do better than Sony is PR and Marketing of Natal and IMHO it's because of the "novelty" of the approach and the technical prowess of the full body scanning, certainly not because of pure gameplay überpawnage. Sonys idea seems to be just a 1:1 copy of the Nintendo Wii, so not interesting at all for many people.

ok, this is basically what I'm trying to say.

Lonely1 · Mar 10, 2010

neorej said:
Yeah, probably. Here's what it can't do and Arc/Wand/Gem/Jem/whatever can: precision. Even with Motion+ the Wiimote is dodgy at best. Everything Sony has shown of their motion controller is that it's highly precise. And that, my friend, gives it a notch or 3 over the Wiimote. Don't worry, I'll still play my Mario Kart, Mario Party, Red Steel 2, Mario Galaxies and Madworld.

The pointer is mighty precise, probably more than Arc's. Everything else can be precise enough, we have yet to see a game were 1-1 makes a huge difference over 1-0.8 or whatever.

Ashes · Mar 10, 2010

not that I don't agree with people, but I would wait till natal is shown at e3 or something.
I just watched the e3 wand vids in the posts above, and to be fair they really appeared to focus on the games more than Microsoft. And in my opinion did it better. Especially the drawing. And accuracy. I hadn't realized that back then, if I'm honest.
I think what Linkz meant was that there was more showmanship by Microsoft and their product had more marketability.
If I had to make a prediction now though, I'd say the lines are going to be longer for the wand/arc/ right now. Its starting to impress. It at least looks on par if not better then wii sport. I mean why would you buy wii sport 2 when you can buy arc sport 1 or 2? or something like that...

Dr Bad Dude PHD · Mar 10, 2010

UntoldDreams said:
Pop up book? Hyperbole aside what do you mean?

No hyperbole, stereoscopic 3D films look like pop up books.

It just look like shit, it makes people and objects look like cardboard cutouts, this is not up for debate this is a fact I've seen a lot of 3D in cinema.

3D is a terrible gimmick that should be reserved for Pixar type childrens movies. No respectable film will ever need to bother with a gimmick like 3D.

Danthrax said:
The 3D in Avatar is terrible? :lol Okay.

Yeah, looks like a pop up book.

Afrikan · Mar 10, 2010

angelcage87 said:
http://discoveringhypnosis.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/32984717_e204621567_o.gif[/IMG

Hey you,sony developer.Yes,i'm talking to you.

Now,listen to me.Go to your boss,whoever that person is,and tell him that your studio is going to develop a new bushido blade arc based.

Don't give him explanations,or any kind of choice.You ARE going to develop a new bushido blade with motion controls,and that is all.

After you finish develop the game,you will not remember anything about this post,the only thing you will know is that you were looking at the Official hot women thread and you fell asleep.

Now,go.[/QUOTE]

oh man I hope that works... *sigh*

Lonely1 · Mar 10, 2010

Linkzg said:
again, I'm not speaking for myself here, but what they have been showing is what people want to see. You have this one guy posting here saying that the Wii remote can do the same things as what is shown in the tech demos, which is factually wrong (not to say the Sony thing can do everything the Wii remote can). Speaking not of the devices but of the presentation.

I think what I'm trying to say is lost because I'm really tired right now

oh, and honestly, augmented reality for home console gaming is a gimmick until someone makes a fucking awesome horror game that has a video feed of your living room and occasionally makes it seem like there is a person sneaking up on you. I'm just saying that someone needs to get on that.

ok, this is basically what I'm trying to say.

I was talking about the uses on actual games that the other posters suggested, like FPS and RTS...

rollingstart · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
The pointer is mighty precise, probably more than Arc's. Everything else can be precise enough, we have yet to see a game were 1-1 makes a huge difference over 1-0.8 or whatever.

yeah, but you're factually wrong here. Consider how both controllers work for a second. It should be fairly obvious so I won't write up a big post about it.

Lonely1 said:
I was talking about the uses on actual games that the other posters suggested, like FPS and RTS...

look at how the two technologies work.

hint: The camera for the Wii is on the controller while the sensor bar at the base of the TV is the point of reference. The PS3 solution is the opposite.

Hydrargyrus · Mar 10, 2010

Wooow.

This gif is awesome, looks really precise

golem · Mar 10, 2010

Linkzg said:
oh, and honestly, augmented reality for home console gaming is a gimmick until someone makes a fucking awesome horror game that has a video feed of your living room and occasionally makes it seem like there is a person sneaking up on you. I'm just saying that someone needs to get on that.

snap, that would be sick

Lonely1 · Mar 10, 2010

Linkzg said:
yeah, but you're factually wrong here. Consider how both controllers work for a second. It should be fairly obvious so I won't write up a big post about it.

I don't see your point...

Linkzg said:
hint: The camera for the Wii is on the controller while the sensor bar at the base of the TV is the point of reference. The PS3 solution is the opposite.

Again, I don't see your point... I know about the cameras. That's why I think that the wii-mote will have better pointer whila Arc will have better spatial tracking for stuff like 1-1 sword and aggumented reality. But the difference will be big enough? (leaving the aggumented reality stuff, that the current wii-remote clearly can't do).

Just look at the .gif that everyone here is drooling at. One part of its charm is the aggumented reality, the guy throwing its wand into the air an catching it traslates into a sword in the screen. But the part that makes it different form the E3 presentation is that the wand does a good job of keeping with the rotation. WM+ can keep with rotations too...

SamBishop · Mar 10, 2010

Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
No hyperbole, stereoscopic 3D films look like pop up books.

It just look like shit, it makes people and objects look like cardboard cutouts, this is not up for debate this is a fact I've seen a lot of 3D in cinema.

3D is a terrible gimmick that should be reserved for Pixar type childrens movies. No respectable film will ever need to bother with a gimmick like 3D.

Yeah, looks like a pop up book.

Oh, it's up for debate, sport. There are plenty of people out there that are fully on board with 3D thanks to stuff like Avatar. Seeing it with games is even cooler because it really does help draw you in. Also, something must've been a bit... odd about your eyes if you saw things popping out of anything. Modern 3D is more about depth than having something jump out at you. The TV, essentially, is a window now, which is pretty slick. Or at least that's my debate on things.

I would venture some of the other incredulous statements toward your idea that your opinion is fact would back me up on this. In other words, just because you see things a certain way does not make it so. Sorry about your eyes, man; I wish you could join us on this little trip we're going to be taking.

cakefoo · Mar 10, 2010

Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
No hyperbole, stereoscopic 3D films look like pop up books.

It just look like shit, it makes people and objects look like cardboard cutouts, this is not up for debate this is a fact I've seen a lot of 3D in cinema.

3D is a terrible gimmick that should be reserved for Pixar type childrens movies. No respectable film will ever need to bother with a gimmick like 3D.

Yeah, looks like a pop up book.

bullshit :lol that you claim your opinion is fact doesn't make it fact.

UntoldDreams · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
I don't see your point...

I don't think its accurate to compare ARC and Motion+ and proclaim they are the same though.

The Wii Sensor bar is not accurate for TV's sizing past 30" or greater and the wiimote has to actively point at the bar to recalibrate positioning.

ARC has face tracking, Eyetoy functionality, and pinpoint accuracy via the camera which is actually the biggest difference not augmented reality stuff.

A good example would be boxing. With face tracking ARC could do duck, bob & weave mechanics from your face in addition to both controls for left and right hand.

They could even incorporate Eyetoy vision recognition to determine if you dodged effectively out of the way beyond just your face but your whole body.

It is not "the same" per say simply due to the camera and the cell processor having extra bandwidth to do this type of calculation.

TTP · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
I don't see your point...

Again, I don't see your point... I know about the cameras. That's why I think that the wii-mote will have better pointer whila Arc will have better spatial tracking for stuff like 1-1 sword and aggumented reality. But the difference will be big enough? (leaving the aggumented reality stuff, that the current wii-remote clearly can't do).

I don't understand why you believe so. It looks too obvious the Arc will have better everything to me.

Trailblaster · Mar 10, 2010

TTP said:
I don't understand why you believe so. It looks too obvious the Arc will have better everything to me.

You and Me both

Jtrizzy · Mar 10, 2010

I finally saw my first 3D movie tonight, and it was awesome. I saw Alice in Wonderland on an IMAX 3D screen and was very impressed. Personally, I'd like to wear some sort of goggles so I don't see any rim on the glasses...I don't really care what I'm looking like when gaming in 3D with motion controls. I can't freaking wait.

hxa155 · Mar 10, 2010

TTP said:
I don't understand why you believe so. It looks too obvious the Arc will have better everything to me.

Agreed. We've seen how easy it is to write/paint with Arc.

Lonely1 · Mar 10, 2010

TTP said:
I don't understand why you believe so. It looks too obvious the Arc will have better everything to me.

I discussed it with gofreak in this thread. Can I be wrong? Of course.

Dr Bad Dude PHD · Mar 10, 2010

SamBishop said:
Oh, it's up for debate, sport. There are plenty of people out there that are fully on board with 3D thanks to stuff like Avatar. Seeing it with games is even cooler because it really does help draw you in. Also, something must've been a bit... odd about your eyes if you saw things popping out of anything. Modern 3D is more about depth than having something jump out at you. The TV, essentially, is a window now, which is pretty slick. Or at least that's my debate on things.

I would venture some of the other incredulous statements toward your idea that your opinion is fact would back me up on this. In other words, just because you see things a certain way does not make it so. Sorry about your eyes, man; I wish you could join us on this little trip we're going to be taking.

I'm not going to get into this argument, you can gobble up all the marketing bullshit you please.

UntoldDreams · Mar 10, 2010

Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
No hyperbole, stereoscopic 3D films look like pop up books.
***STUFF***
Yeah, looks like a pop up book.

Your opinion is your own to control so that's ok.

But its kinda irresponsible for you to say that the entire world agrees with you and present an opinion as fact don't you think?

Basically you aren't winning any arguments if your only data point is "I don't like strawberries therefore no one else likes strawberries".

Lonely1 · Mar 10, 2010

UntoldDreams said:
I don't think its accurate to compare ARC and Motion+ and proclaim they are the same though.

The Wii Sensor bar is not accurate for TV's sizing past 30" or greater and the wiimote has to actively point at the bar to recalibrate positioning.

ARC has face tracking, Eyetoy functionality, and pinpoint accuracy via the camera which is actually the biggest difference not augmented reality stuff.

A good example would be boxing. With face tracking ARC could do duck, bob & weave mechanics from your face in addition to both controls for left and right hand.

They could even incorporate Eyetoy vision recognition to determine if you dodged effectively out of the way beyond just your face but your whole body.

It is not "the same" per say simply due to the camera and the cell processor having extra bandwidth to do this type of calculation.

I though we were talking about the wands. Obviously the wiimote can't do the camera stuff.

Ashes · Mar 10, 2010

are you talking about the wiimote in isolation then? good heavens why?

Trailblaster · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
I though we were talking about the wands. Obviously the wiimote can't do the camera stuff.

I think the point is the the Wand and Camera are both part of Sony motion control solution. The Arc adds to gameplay. The Wiimote Adds to gameplay. The PSeye Add to gameplay. the Wii sensor bar dose nothing outside of giving the wiimote a refrence point to look at. It's Sony's Wand/Camera combo that puts it well ahead of the Wii for accuracy and game interaction.

neorej · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
The pointer is mighty precise, probably more than Arc's. Everything else can be precise enough, we have yet to see a game were 1-1 makes a huge difference over 1-0.8 or whatever.

You're wrong and you don't want to see it. Fine. Stay in your bubble :lol

cakefoo · Mar 10, 2010

Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
I'm not going to get into this argument, you can gobble up all the marketing bullshit you please.

good, because you kinda suck at debating.

SamBishop · Mar 10, 2010

Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
I'm not going to get into this argument, you can gobble up all the marketing bullshit you please.

It's not an argument, it's a debate, and one that you've pretty much failed because of your insistence on acting like an ass at the center of the universe. If you don't like 3D, that's fine. It's a shame, but to each their own. But don't throw around your opinion as fact. You've already been contested by multiple people in this thread that clearly feel the exact opposite of your reality. So either we're all backwards and we're just seeing things "wrong" or perception is not one-way and you, personally, didn't take to 3D while others in the thread clearly enjoy it.

I think it's fantastic and adds a ton to games, but I'm not trying to insist that my viewpoint is the rule of law. See the distinction? Ironically, that is fact -- nary a lick o' "marketing bullshit" to be found.

[edit] Oh, I get it. I just got trolled. That or you have the most ridiculous sense of over-exaggerated self-worth I've ever seen. Nevermind.

Dr.Acula · Mar 10, 2010

Sonii-mote looks wicked! Nintendo's controller is fine for FPS', I'm playing Metroid Prime Trilogy and having a blast, but stuff like Wii-Sports Resort still feels a little flaky. I'll have to use the Sonii-mote before I down this glass of Kool-Aid, but high-def? Better gfx? Yeah Sony... I'm listening...

Here's a tip: 3D television support and let me use ARI in Heavy Rain 2 (no whiny lame-o's trying to find their kids, all Norman, all the time). Here's all my money.

Lonely1 · Mar 10, 2010

neorej said:
You're wrong and you don't want to see it. Fine. Stay in your bubble :lol

Tell me, were I am wrong? The examples you gave used the pointer. Wiimote pointer is very precise. If you say the contrary you are the one who is wrong and don't know much about the motion controls.

neorej said:
I think the point is the the Wand and Camera are both part of Sony motion control solution. The Arc adds to gameplay. The Wiimote Adds to gameplay. The PSeye Add to gameplay. the Wii sensor bar dose nothing outside of giving the wiimote a refrence point to look at. It's Sony's Wand/Camera combo that puts it well ahead of the Wii for accuracy and game interaction.

Well, Nintendo motion solution would include the balance board and whatever they are cooking with the vitality sensor.

Dr Bad Dude PHD · Mar 10, 2010

UntoldDreams said:
Your opinion is your own to control so that's ok.

But its kinda irresponsible for you to say that the entire world agrees with you and present an opinion as fact don't you think?

Basically you aren't winning any arguments if your only data point is "I don't like strawberries therefore no one else likes strawberries".

The problem there is that I never claimed this is my opinion. The Earth goes round the sun, this is not my opinion this is a fact, stereoscopic 3D makes people and objects look like cardboard cutouts, this is not my opinion this is a fact. If it's YOUR opinion that the Earth doesn't travel round the sun or that stereoscopic 3D looks just like real life that than that is fine and you can keep on believing that, but at the end of the day your opinion is factually wrong.

dose · Mar 10, 2010

Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
The Earth goes round the sun, this is not my opinion this is a fact, stereoscopic 3D makes people and objects look like cardboard cutouts, this is not my opinion this is a fact.

Do you have any links to studies to back up your stereoscopic 'fact'?
Edit: As in that others see the 3D effect like you do.

IrrelevantNotch · Mar 10, 2010

I wonder if the Wiitards in this thread are just poor kids who can't afford a PS3

CrushDance · Mar 10, 2010

IrrelevantNotch said:
I wonder if the Wiitards in this thread are just poor kids who can't afford a PS3

:lol omg

KTOOOOM · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
Well, Nintendo motion solution would include the balance board and whatever they are cooking with the vitality sensor.

ahhhh ...you

WII = WiiMotion + sensor + balance board + vitality sensor= fun games
PS3 = Arc + Camera + balance board (ps3 version ) + vitality sensor (ps3 version )= ?

you get it now
i hope so

Trailblaster · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
Well, Nintendo motion solution would include the balance board and whatever they are cooking with the vitality sensor.

Oh god :lol where the hell did the Balance board and Vitality sensor come from? :lol

If you don't get it by now you never will. But you Avatar makes me smile when ever I see it so your still cool in my book

Off to bed

neorej · Mar 10, 2010

Lonely1 said:
Tell me, were I am wrong? The examples you gave used the pointer. Wiimote pointer is very precise. If you say the contrary you are the one who is wrong and don't know much about the motion controls.

Your claims of Wiimote precision are not demonstrated anywhere. Hell, they even needed to add a peripheral to make it more accurate. And still it's dodgy, especially when you're 10 feet away from the sensorbar.
But hell, all hail Wii and everything.

RJT · Mar 10, 2010

Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
3D is a terrible gimmick that should be reserved for Pixar type childrens movies. No respectable film will ever need to bother with a gimmick like 3D.

WTF? Did you just say Pixar movies are not respectable?

Taker666 · Mar 10, 2010

Linkzg said:
oh, and honestly, augmented reality for home console gaming is a gimmick until someone makes a fucking awesome horror game that has a video feed of your living room and occasionally makes it seem like there is a person sneaking up on you. I'm just saying that someone needs to get on that.

ok, this is basically what I'm trying to say.

Already happening...on the DSi.

http://www.ghostwiregame.com/

ghostmind · Mar 10, 2010

Well, this thread has gone straight to hell...

neorej · Mar 10, 2010

ghostmind said:
Well, this thread has gone straight to hell...

Don't tell me you didn't expect that to happen. Wii Defence Force is coming in at full force.

Psychotext · Mar 10, 2010

Welp, I'm out of here. Hopefully there will be less arguments once some games have been shown... though I doubt it.

Suzzopher · Mar 10, 2010

Until this morning I had no hype for Arc now after seeing a gif, I am hyped beyond belief:lol

Animator · Mar 10, 2010

Dr Bad Dude PHD said:
3D is a terrible gimmick that should be reserved for Pixar type childrens movies.

Support NeoGAF

Sony Controller to Be Named "Move." Bye bye Gem? truly outrageous

Banned

Banned

Unconfirmed Member

Unconfirmed Member

Member

Banned

Member

ERMYGERD!

Banned

Unconfirmed Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Unconfirmed Member

Banned

Member

Member

Unconfirmed Member

Banned

Member

Member

Have a fun! Enjoy!

Banned

Member

Member

Unconfirmed Member

Banned

Member

Unconfirmed Member

Banned

Banned

ERMYGERD!

Member

Banned

Banned

Unconfirmed Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

ERMYGERD!

Member

Member

Member

ERMYGERD!

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads