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Mikey Jr.
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:19 AM)
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Haha, I know that title is gonna flame Me to hell, but it's my opinion about mm and dreams. Sometimes I'll forget that dreams still exists.

I have to give Sony some respect here. This was apparently being worked on as early as gamescom..... 2012. Mm has been working on dreams for the past 5 years. My gut says that dreams won't be released on 2017,so we are looking at maybe 6 years of Dev time.

But Sony has been keeping media molecule alive for awhile to release a very niche title.
I do not see dreams doing very well commercially in my opinion. Looks like one of those very artsy games that does well critically, but flops in sales.

Anyways, just surprised Sony has been keeping mm around for as long as they have. From a business perspective, just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I mean, they've closed down entire Dev studios for less. I mean, yeah, drive club didn't set the world on fire and it had problems, but give em a second chance for fuck sakes. At least they put out a game on the ps4.

Long story short,
Hope we see more of dreams at E3. Because what the hell is happening with that game? If they come to E3 with two wands and start sculpting some geezers face, then that game is dead to me, lol.


Originally Posted by gofreak

Even in the depths of development, years after their last 'big' release, they're making profit (3.5m last year, similar the year before), and have a strong net asset base.



So many bad assumptions in this thread about their financials and budget etc.

Their revenue would include contract/milestone payments from Sony (as well as royalties on sales), and there's no breakdown on which is which, but it's fairly clear from these figures that their budget is not huge (~4m/year total costs) and those costs run well under whatever budget Sony payments+royalties are affording them.

If 4m/year is typical, and Dreams + Tearaway dev hasn't been much more than 20m total to date, and won't be much more before Dreams is released. I think it's quite reasonable for Sony to expect a return on that even if Dreams is only modestly successful.

Last edited by Mikey Jr.; 03-21-2017 at 05:58 PM.
NippleViking
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:22 AM)
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Don't think Dreams and MM's case is that significant - you could say the same for a lot of 'major' studios.

Rare, Retro, Polyphony, etc.
Quonny
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(03-21-2017, 05:23 AM)
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MM gives them free publicity if nothing else. Gaming blogs writing stories about people using their games tools to make interesting levels or ideas.

And it gives them a lot of PS+ fodder.
Speevy
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(03-21-2017, 05:23 AM)
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If Rare can exist so can Media Molecule.
StrongBlackVine
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(03-21-2017, 05:24 AM)
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Thank God you are not in control then. You would have axed a small studio(50 to 60 staff) by AAA standards that made you a mint with Little Big Planet 1 and 2 before their next project even releases? MM has probably been one of the most profitable studio for Sony behind Naughty Dog and PD.
Last edited by StrongBlackVine; 03-21-2017 at 05:26 AM.
Mikey Jr.
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(03-21-2017, 05:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by NippleViking

Don't think Dreams and MM's case is that significant - you could say the same for a lot of 'major' studios.

Rare, Retro, Polyphony, etc.

Gt sport will sell millions.
MrCookiepants
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:24 AM)
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Well, MM is a tiny studio. The profit from the first LBP alone would be enough to keep them up and running forever.
Psychological Intellect
Junior Member
(03-21-2017, 05:25 AM)
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Well I'm certainly anticipating playing their next game when its free on Ps+
Matt
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:25 AM)
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Sony still believes in the power of first party development to enhance the standing of an entire platform. Dreams (if pulled off) is definitely the kind of title that will help spur interest and discussion about PlayStation.

It's an expense that so far they have been able to justify.
NippleViking
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mikey Jr.

Gt sport will sell millions.

And so would a decent Conker or Banjo game.

Doesn't change the fact that these studios have significantly longer dev times than the norm, despite other studios putting out similar quality at lower costs and within quicker timeframes.
Last edited by NippleViking; 03-21-2017 at 05:28 AM.
Matt
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by NippleViking

And so would a decent Conker or Banjo game.

There is absolutely no reason to think that.
Haines
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(03-21-2017, 05:27 AM)
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I hope it was shifted to vr bc that's the only format that makes sense for that game.
Stillmatic
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(03-21-2017, 05:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mikey Jr.

Long story short,
Hope we see more of dreams at E3. Because what the hell is happening with that game? If they come to E3 with two wands and start sculpting some geezers face, then that game is dead to me, lol.

Haven't they been doing regular streams with progress reports, showing off elements of the game etc? I watched a few last year, looks pretty crazy.

But yeah, regardless of its quality I don't see this being a big hit. Similar to Tearaway. Hope I'm wrong, because they're a crazy talented studio.
Zukkoyaki
Member
(03-21-2017, 05:27 AM)
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They also released Tearaway and its enhanced PS4 version while working on Dreams so at least there's that.

Plus everything about Dreams implies it will be a long lasting service game that will have an extremely loyal fan following. It will be fine.
bobbytkc
ADD New Gen Gamer
(03-21-2017, 05:27 AM)
They are basically coasting on their Little Big planet success. Cant say that about evolution. They just produce bomb after bomb.

I think if Dreams bombs, and judging the kind of game it is, and looking at the aesthetic, it will probably bomb, Sony will have a hard decision to make.
StoveOven
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(03-21-2017, 05:28 AM)
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LittleBigPlanet is one of Sony's biggest successes from the last decade. Media Molecule has probably earned a little leeway.

They also make games that are super artsy and critically beloved, which even if they don't sell well help Sony out from a public image standpoint. It makes the platform look diverse and creative, which makes some people more excited about the brand.

Unless they are hemorrhaging money (which nobody in this thread really knows the answer to), there's no reason for Sony to ax them, at least not before Dreams even launches.
StrongBlackVine
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(03-21-2017, 05:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Matt

Sony still believes in the power of first party development to enhance the standing of an entire platform. Dreams (if pulled off) is definitely the kind of title that will help spur interest and discussion about PlayStation.

It's an expense that so far they have been able to justify.

When their last two games sold 8 million+ combined(Tearaway was a side project) in addition to the massive amount profit generated from DLC they should be able to justify it.

Originally Posted by Stillmatic

Haven't they been doing regular streams with progress reports, showing off elements of the game etc? I watched a few last year, looks pretty crazy.

But yeah, regardless of its quality I don't see this being a big hit. Similar to Tearaway. Hope I'm wrong, because they're a crazy talented studio.

Why Dreams be closer to Tearaway and not Little Big Planet when LBP is what Dreams is the evolution of? If they make and good story mode and the creation tools are easy to use I see no why it won't be a worthy successor.
Last edited by StrongBlackVine; 03-21-2017 at 05:31 AM.
Champion
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(03-21-2017, 05:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

If Rare can exist so can Media Molecule.

What exactly are you trying to say here?
Defuser
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(03-21-2017, 05:30 AM)
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Mostly likely Dreams is being shifted to be a VR game. Nobody gonna buy the move controller unless its VR.

And probably after Dreams gets released the studio sadly will get axed sooner or later.
Interficium
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(03-21-2017, 05:30 AM)
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If only hardnosed gamers like you were running the show, they'd finally whip lazy devs like media molecole into shape, eh OP?
Matt
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(03-21-2017, 05:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by StrongBlackVine

When their last two games sold 8 million+ combined(Tearaway was a side project) in addition to the massive amount profit generated from DLC they should be able to justify it.

Eh...that's not exactly how it works.
Floody
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(03-21-2017, 05:32 AM)
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I just wanna know how Dreams plays, it looks cool as fuck and they've shown it's a very powerful creative engine capable of doing plenty of different styles, but I wonder how much more to it is there?
Also, I doubt MM have anywhere near the Budget most of Sony's other studios do, and LBP was a massive success, would be extremely sad to see a very creative studio die.

Anyways from the Sony first party thread.

Originally Posted by Dovahking

Happy #WorldFrogDay to all our amphibious friends! :) #DreamsPS4


That looks very impressive. Man, I can't wait for the beta.

Game looks beautiful.
Archtreyz
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(03-21-2017, 05:32 AM)
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I'm honestly amazed at what Sony allows their teams to produce. The Last Guardian was allowed to gestate forever. Gravity Rush 2 was still made. Knack and it's sequel was greenlit. Good on them.
gundamkyoukai
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(03-21-2017, 05:32 AM)
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MM is small team so it's not like they have a huge upkeep .
Plus LBP1 and 2 sold a good amount with loads of DLC so that should give them some good will.
Even if dreams don't sell the same amount i sure it will make them profit .
Then there is the plus of having people talk about PS which helps the brand .
Bashtee
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(03-21-2017, 05:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mikey Jr.

But Sony has been keeping media molecule alive for awhile to release a very niche title.
I do not see dreams doing very well commercially in my opinion. Looks like one of those very artsy games that does well critically, but flops in sales.

I don't think it will be just a title, more like a new platform. LBP had so many levels and ideas from around the world, but a lot of it was actually restricted by the engine. Something we haven't seen with their new one.

And for Sony keeping MM alive: it's probably some kind of prestige project for their creative output. At least that's how I see it.
wapplew
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(03-21-2017, 05:33 AM)
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Because MM have admirer at very high up in Sony.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmt4g940_nQ
StrongBlackVine
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(03-21-2017, 05:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Matt

Eh...that's not exactly how it works.

Maybe not, but I think idea of Media Molecule being shut down because Dreams is taking longer than anticipated is a bit much. I think they have earned their keep compared to most of Sony first party studios. Do you have insight as to how Sony views them?
Last edited by StrongBlackVine; 03-21-2017 at 05:36 AM.
FinalStageBoss
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(03-21-2017, 05:33 AM)
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Good thing you're not in control.
Spman2099
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(03-21-2017, 05:34 AM)
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Spend a little money, diversify your game library, and sell twice as much as your closest competitor. Seems like a solid plan to me.
Mohasus
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(03-21-2017, 05:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mikey Jr.

Anyways, just surprised Sony has been keeping mm around for as long as they have. From a business perspective, just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I mean, they've closed down entire Dev studios for less. I mean, yeah, drive club didn't set the world on fire and it had problems, but give em a second chance for fuck sakes. At least they put out a game on the ps4.

What?

They had 5 chances to show sony that they could make a racing game that sells. Turns out they can't.
NeoMetallix
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(03-21-2017, 05:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mikey Jr.

Haha, I know that title is gonna flame Me to hell, but it's my opinion about mm and dreams. Sometimes I'll forget that dreams still exists.

I have to give Sony some respect here. This was apparently being worked on as early as gamescom..... 2012. Mm has been working on dreams for the past 5 years. My gut says that dreams won't be released on 2017,so we are looking at maybe 6 years of Dev time.

But Sony has been keeping media molecule alive for awhile to release a very niche title.
I do not see dreams doing very well commercially in my opinion. Looks like one of those very artsy games that does well critically, but flops in sales.

Anyways, just surprised Sony has been keeping mm around for as long as they have. From a business perspective, just doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I mean, they've closed down entire Dev studios for less. I mean, yeah, drive club didn't set the world on fire and it had problems, but give em a second chance for fuck sakes. At least they put out a game on the ps4.

Long story short,
Hope we see more of dreams at E3. Because what the hell is happening with that game? If they come to E3 with two wands and start sculpting some geezers face, then that game is dead to me, lol.


So many people talk about evo but don't know anything. Driveclub WAS their second chance and it flopped hard. It only crawled to 2 million by selling it for $15 for months. Apocalypse was a monumental flop and Pacific Rift did alright but nothing great.
Speevy
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(03-21-2017, 05:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Champion

What exactly are you trying to say here?

That a talented company can ebb and flow in their usefulness for years and still be kept around.

Media Molecule is a great company.
Mushroomer25
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(03-21-2017, 05:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

If Rare can exist so can Media Molecule.

I don't think it's a stretch to say a pirate MMO is more bankable than a motion-controlled sculpting game.
eyeball_kid
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(03-21-2017, 05:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Defuser

Mostly likely Dreams is being shifted to be a VR game. Nobody gonna buy the move controller unless its VR.

And probably after Dreams gets released the studio sadly will get axed sooner or later.

Dreams already supports PSVR. Hell, you can even export the models you create to be 3D printed. And that's part of the problem I think. They have huge ambitions for the title, but only last year did they actually start working on the game. They've been building the engine and creation tools for the rest of the time. I mean, when you look at what they've accomplished with those things, it's not a surprise. The engine is stunning and the dev tools and user interface they've created for their sculpting tools are seriously impressive. But right now it feels more like a creation tool for interactive art than for making games. And that's a problem since they claimed you'd be able to make any kind of game you want with it. Their team is incredibly talented so they have a good shot of pulling that off, but how much more time will it take to get there? I don't know, and not sure if they do either.
Icyflamez96
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(03-21-2017, 05:37 AM)
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You say that, but would you? You don't know how much MM is really actually costing them especially when you consider their successes in the past. I think people on the outside probably overblow that aspect.
Sangetsu-II
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(03-21-2017, 05:37 AM)
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MM games are a cash flow maker for Sony, just with DLC alone. They don't need to sell a lot of copies.

Just looking at all the LBP costumes & gadgets they made to sell as DLC made them a lot of money imo.
gundamkyoukai
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(03-21-2017, 05:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mohasus

What?

They had 5 chances to show sony that they could make a racing game that sells. Turns out they couldn't.

Yep they had more than one chance already .
To make things worst there are in a genre that not selling well .
Also Sony had PD and GT sell millions.
Speevy
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(03-21-2017, 05:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mushroomer25

I don't think it's a stretch to say a pirate MMO is more bankable than a motion-controlled sculpting game.

And I don't think it's a stretch to say Rare spent an entire generation making mostly dogshit, but they still exist.
StrongBlackVine
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(03-21-2017, 05:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mushroomer25

I don't think it's a stretch to say a pirate MMO is more bankable than a motion-controlled sculpting game.

That's bullshit. You should be a spin doctor. Do you actually believe that is a proper way to describe Dreams? Also see Fable Legends for how well those whimsy console focused MMOs have turned out so far if we are going to outrageously oversimplify things.
Last edited by StrongBlackVine; 03-21-2017 at 05:42 AM.
RexNovis
Banned
(03-21-2017, 05:39 AM)
What a horribly repugnant thing to say.
RoboPlato
I'd be in the dick
(03-21-2017, 05:39 AM)
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I think as long as MM delivers quality games they're safe. They're a small team and their games aren't like any other member of WWS and also can't be compensated for with third party marketing deals.
Urthor
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(03-21-2017, 05:39 AM)
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Little Big Planet made complete bank for Sony, and gave them serious credentials as a family friendly console by releasing one of the best games for kids that was a massive point of difference for them. From an executive's point of view it was the absolute best kind of game for Sony to have on their slate, their stock is undoutedly huged internally.

They're not the biggest team either, and their last deliverable was in 2015, not that long ago, and although it wasn't a big hit this was after Sony tasked them with releasing a game for the Vita so they hadn't had the opportunity to make a proper new IP.

They're not even behind on their project honestly. Dreams is schedule for 2017 with 1st half of 2018 as potential slippage, and Sony will have their family friendly "AAA" IP for this generation, whilst also shipping units to and buying the loyalty of their European consumer base who loves these intellectual, artsy games.
Last edited by Urthor; 03-21-2017 at 05:43 AM.
Garrett Hawke
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(03-21-2017, 05:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Speevy

And I don't think it's a stretch to say Rare spent an entire generation making mostly dogshit, but they still exist.

Pretty sure the Kinect Sports games sold well until Rivals. Not core =/= dogshit.
Wagram
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(03-21-2017, 05:41 AM)
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So would I and I loved LBP. The studio hasn't done anything in years.
wapplew
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(03-21-2017, 05:41 AM)
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The only thing remotely go against MM is they located in UK, and we all know how much Sony like to cut UK studios...
miller.skippins
Banned
(03-21-2017, 05:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Mushroomer25

I don't think it's a stretch to say a pirate MMO is more bankable than a motion-controlled sculpting game.


you really had no idea how much money those LBP DLC made, huh?
KingdomHeartsFan
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(03-21-2017, 05:42 AM)
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I think they are taking the time to put a well made single player in the game, just having a tacked on single player with the level creator won't sell very much. If they make and market the single player well I think it could sell a decent amount.
AlexFlame116
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(03-21-2017, 05:42 AM)
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I always forget about LittleBigPlanet Hub ever existing but I'm looking forward to Dreams! Hopefully it comes out this year.
LiK
(03-21-2017, 05:43 AM)
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It's not gonna sell well, that's for sure. Nothing about it seemed that good to me. Anything of interest seems niche.
brickarts295
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(03-21-2017, 05:43 AM)
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We got no idea how much it cost them to have them open. They might be really cheap compared to the other developers. Plus they help diverse Sony exclusive games, thats enough to keep them on board.

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