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Physical punishment for kids? Does it work?

This is what is the most puzzling about how relatively accepted corporal punishment is culturally. Like, if someone smacked their wife with a belt as a means of correcting her behavior, people would think it was despicable. In a workplace environment, it would be totally unacceptable, but with children somehow it's okay? When in reality as a parent all you are doing is taking advantage of the parent/authority relationship you have over your kids. Like, the only reason I didn't smack my dad back when he whipped me was because it was my dad, had it been anybody else I would have defended myself. It's pretty fucked up.

You'll never win people over like that. Kids are not like a full grown adult with reason. I work with teenagers in a mental health unit and when they become a danger to themselves and others, we have to physically restrain them. I've seen these kids get jabbed with a needle full of sedatives to calm them down. I would never do that to my spouse because she isn't someone not in control of herself. False equivalency just don't work in comparison.
 

shandy706

Member
Well it works or at least appears to work often immediately, that's why it has been traditionally used so much. An extremely quick and easy fix. However (and this is a big however), it more often than not, comes with other big consequences that are not as instant or obvious, and that's why I'm well happy any form of physical punishments is illegal in my country.

I don't think parents that used physical punishment on their children are necessarily bad parents or people, could be extremely desperate parents in a situation or simply ignorant/living in a culture where it's the norm. But the "i was hit and I turned out fine" line that goes through all debates like this, is a weak argument, even if your parents are lovely people.

Mine are incredibly loving, honest, good people. It was, in fact how they were raised..so you're correct there.

Just to clarify in my case, I was literally spanked...maybe 5 times between the ages of 5 and 13. That's basically it in my entire childhood.

It wasn't even a once a year thing, and the times it happened I did something really stupid or damaging, haha. One time I got a good one for taking my sleeping bag down the stairs and through a wall X-D. Taking away my NES/Bike/something else probably would have worked.

It was nothing like the parents you see who spank their kids constantly (daily?weekly?)

Those are just horrible people/parents. Not saying those 5 times were ok, but I think there's a real disconnect/range of what people are thinking in these threads.
 
I've lost this battle so many times discussing it with folks in real life, i know I'm not going to win it here.

All i can speak on is my behalf, i could never beat my kids if i had any, don't have the heart for that, but from what I've seen is that its "normal" around the world and people turn out fine more often than not.
 

thiscoldblack

Unconfirmed Member
It all depends on the person and culture, but I definitely don't see a problem as long as it's not a abusive pattern.

I certainly do my best not to do this sort of thing with my kids. I talk to them, understand their point of view / reasoning and let them know mine. Therefore, establishing a relationship of mutual trust. I want them to be smart about their decisions and current behavior.
 

Altairre

Member
Jeez this is really something for some of y'all.

Parents beat their kids in some parts of the world even in the good ole US of A, shocker!

It's as old as time disciplining your children. Get over it. There is straight up torture and then there's getting the belt for playing with fire and almost burning the house down (that was my cousin)

I'd argue that parents who verbally abuse their kids are worse than those who spank etc.

When you can't come up with anything else just throw in the good old "get over it".
 
I don't think it does. I was born in the early 80's so I grew up in the 90's. My sister and I would get spanked with a belt or hand when we really acted up, but we still acted up in the future. When we swore as kids we would have to sit with a bar of soap in our mouth or if we really pissed my mom off she when we swore she would sit on top of us and squeeze liquid soap in our mouths. That didn't work either because kids will be kids.

It all stop once we got a bit older so the punishment changed. I could never be inside, I always had to be outside playing, that's just how I was, so the punishment became me be grounded. They punished me with taking what I enjoyed most away from me. It worked to an extent because again, kids will be kids and teens will be teens. As we mature with age we grew out of all the misbehaving and because my parents were actually parents and taught us right from wrong and were involved/interested in what we did, my sister and I grew up just fine and are better people than most. Raise you kid right, teach them right from wrong, about morality, and that there are consequences for their actions and you will raise good people. A good way to punish and make them feel, see, and sense the consequence is to find what they love/enjoy most and take it from them as punishment for a short time. For example: my friend's son is glued to his video games, his 3ds and ps4, so my friend takes his game time away from his kid when he acts up or not doing what he is told. The kid literally goes out of his way not to mess up, but again kids will be kids.
This I expect in a torture camp, not from parents. Holy shit.
 

sensui-tomo

Member
Everytime I got in trouble as a child, my parents would give me a spanking, ground me for extended periods of time, and give me like a 2 hour lecture. The spankings were the easiest part of getting in trouble, and I never was "beaten" or feared my parents. People have different methods for disciplining their children. I'm ok if people spank their children as long as they don't go overboard with it.

would you be alright if i spank my girlfriend or coworker if i dont go overboard with it? What makes hitting a child a-ok and the others not okay?
 

kewlmyc

Member
Depends. I feel slapping a kid in the face is child abuse, but a spanking on the bottom isn't.

I was spanked as a kid, and I found the method my parents did worked. Tell me what I did wrong, explain why it's wrong, tell me not to do it again. If I did it again, spank me, have me then repeat what I did wrong, hug me and say they love me, then ground me. It sure as hell worked.
 
I dunno. I grew up in the 80's and got my ass kicked by everyone from parents to extended family to the principal of my elementary (side note, saw the old bitch on FB the other day after all these years, raising hell on a news story... she's totally gung-ho pro Trump).

My kids on the other hand, no. We've never punished them physically, and won't.

I think all the "my folks whipped me and it taught me respect" takes are kind of horseshit, to be honest. I mean maybe you THINK you turned out fine, but who knows, maybe you'd have been even better without the beatings. And the idea that kids now are entitled brats... what, there never were any kids like that in the age of spankings?

I don't buy it. There's a LOT more to parenting than punitive methods. I'm not mad at the people who brought me up or anything, but that's not a tradition I'm carrying forward.
 

Chojin

Member
Grew up in a white/Asian mixed race household. In the 80s parents used physical punishment. Spankings and belt whips from white dad in the early to mid 80s and wooden spoon/whatever is near my filipina mom whacks to the head from early to late 80s. Physcial punishment ended by 88. So first 9 years of my life I endured it.

I think my folks acted how thier parents acted. They realized it wasn't right eventually. Plus they found that Catholic guilt was way more effective.

I will never physically harm my own daughter. I'm agaisnt corporal punishment. My wife thinks it may be appropriate. We haven't reached that crossroad yet but I've told her flat out we will not spank our children.


My failing though is I'm worried I may be verbally abusive. I tend to have outbursts. Never to children but it doesnt excuse my behavior towards adults. Since the kid was born 4 months ago I've been good at controlling myself and volume of my voice as I dont want her to grow up in that environment (my parents were verbally abusive towards each other with shouting and screaming) and my own marriage echoed that for our first three years. But these last two I've been realizing I was becoming my parents and made efforts to get off that track.


My greatest fear is I'll show that side to my innocent and sweet little girl one day and scares the shit out of me.
 

Gutek

Member
I dunno. I grew up in the 80's and got my ass kicked by everyone from parents to extended family to the principal of my elementary (side note, saw the old bitch on FB the other day after all these years, raising hell on a news story... she's totally gung-ho pro Trump).

My kids on the other hand, no. We've never punished them physically, and won't.

I think all the "my folks whipped me and it taught me respect" takes are kind of horseshit, to be honest. I mean maybe you THINK you turned out fine, but who knows, maybe you'd have been even better without the beatings. And the idea that kids now are entitled brats... what, there never were any in the age of spankings?

I don't buy it. There's a LOT more to parenting than punitive methods. I'm not mad at the people who brought me up or anything, but that's not a tradition I'm carrying forward.

It’s just people trying to rationalize their shitty ass parents.
 
You'll never win people over like that. Kids are not like a full grown adult with reason. I work with teenagers in a mental health unit and when they become a danger to themselves and others, we have to physically restrain them. I've seen these kids get jabbed with a needle full of sedatives to calm them down. I would never do that to my spouse because she isn't someone not in control of herself. False equivalency just don't work in comparison.

Adults also often have to be restrained and/or sedated when they are a danger to themselves or others. Not sure where you are going with that comparison, and that's not really what is being discussed here. Not sure how that applies to the idea that, if, say a coworker or spouse talked back to you, it wouldn't be socially acceptable to smack them across the mouth.
 
I've lost this battle so many times discussing it with folks in real life, i know I'm not going to win it here.

All i can speak on is my behalf, i could never beat my kids if i had any, don't have the heart for that, but from what I've seen is that its "normal" around the world and people turn out fine more often than not.
Can you point to some actual evidence of people turning out fine around the world because of physical punishment from parents?
 
Similar back ground here. I think the SE Asian beating works for us, it knocks out the shitty tantrums and builds character. My mom also stopped after I was 10 for some reason and never did it again. My aunts and uncles slapped me around whenever I was being a shithead as a kid. I think its great for our background and culture. For WYPIPO...not sure.

As a black person,I really really hate when people try to make it a race thing. "Oh, white people, and their strange and soft ways..."
 
There are parents who believe in science and there are spankers who don't. Never the two shall mix.

I'm always stunned the best argument people make in favor of spanking is they experienced it and turned out great. You may have. You're also willingly ignoring research on cognitive development in order to use a less effective, violent disciplinary technique because it's easier. You may not have turned out so great after all.

Hitting is easy. Parenting isn't.

Source: parent of a child with ASD + ADHD...no walk in the park.
 
Although my Mom gave me a few smacks to the behind as a kid, I personally don't think physical punishment works now what works on me and my brothers was when my Mom took our favorite thing away. I remember my Mom took our N64 away for a couple weeks when my little brother and I wouldnt stop getting into arguments, definitely had an effect on us. Also telling us why our stuff is being taken away helped too.
 

shandy706

Member
would you be alright if i spank my girlfriend or coworker if i dont go overboard with it? What makes hitting a child a-ok and the others not okay?

What about light pow pow's on the tush as a deterrent?

I'll pop either of my daughters on the butt about as hard as I pop my girlfriend when she walks by me on the couch (she does it to me too :p). That's the severity of the "strike". Nothing but an attention grabber, and results in no tears.

It's closer to a love tap than a "spanking/beating".

I think some people here are visualizing veins popping as you deliver the 10th strike of a rage induced beat down. (which does happen in many households sadly)

The belts/switches/open palm swings won't ever happen in my household. Boy they lose electronics a lot though, lol.
 

Seik

Banned
I don't have a kid yet, though when it'll happen the only physical pain he/she'll go through is when a tickle/friendly rumble session will go wrong.

Hitting a kid isn't worth it, they have plenty of things they care about that you can withdraw to have their full attention; Tablet, dessert, TV, playing outside etc.

This is where the true pain is at, imo.
 

Altairre

Member
You'll never win people over like that. Kids are not like a full grown adult with reason. I work with teenagers in a mental health unit and when they become a danger to themselves and others, we have to physically restrain them. I've seen these kids get jabbed with a needle full of sedatives to calm them down. I would never do that to my spouse because she isn't someone not in control of herself. False equivalency just don't work in comparison.

There's a difference between using physical punishment to correct your kid's behavior as a parenting method and trying to protect people with mental health issues from themselves by restraining them. In your case a lot of shit already happened to them to get them to that point (I'd wager some of them were beaten by their parents as well). I also assume that there are a adults with mental health issues that act in a similar way so what you're talking about isn't necessarily restricted to children. Not really what this topic is about.
 
Can you point to some actual evidence of people turning out fine around the world because of physical punishment from parents?

I can't speak on anyone's behalf 100% because we all put on a face for society and for all i know these people i think are fine are all kinds of fucked up.

I can speak about myself, it's a weak argument sure but that's just my perspective.
 

Koren

Member
No, child abuse is bad.
While I agree (and can't really see a situation where I would find benefits in going physical with a kid), I'm still not totally convinced there should be laws that go farther than banning "real" children abuse. I'd rather convince people.

Also, I've seen people that fight hard against any remotely physical action that use psychological things that are at least as nasty, if not more.
 
Hard and soft science is a colloquialism. Get over yourself. It’s not a scientific concept. Keep beating small children, genius. It good for them.

I'm making the distinction between things that are measurable and not open to interpretation.

Google that and come back with the first thing that comes up in the search.
 
At least my dad never hit me, so I never internalized that a father should be the one hitting.

The mother dynamic is very specific and part of the culture point I was trying to make.

Again, I think a lot of people are immediately assuming that any amount of hitting is serious physical harm.

It was never that. I wasn't going to school the next day limping. I didn't have black eyes or any sort of bruises or marks.



Haha. Both my parents have backgrounds in science.
Of course, parents are strategic. They don't want other people finding out the abuse. So the way they hit their kids is in such a way that it doesn't leave marks. Also parents being in science doesn't mean they practice what they're taught, they can be hypocrites.
 
would you be alright if i spank my girlfriend or coworker if i dont go overboard with it? What makes hitting a child a-ok and the others not okay?

I mean are you raising an impressionable girlfriend or coworker and trying to show them that their decisions sometimes come with consequences? Nobody is saying to go Mike Tyson on a child.
 

Gutek

Member
I'm making the distinction between things that are measurable and not open to interpretation.

Google that and come back with the first thing that comes up in the search.

Exactly what I said. It’s not a scientific concept, but rather a colloquialism.


Edit: lolz, it literally says this: “Hard science and soft science are colloquial terms used to compare scientific fields on the basis of perceived methodological rigor, exactitude, and objectivity.”

Take the L dude.
 
I'm making the distinction between things that are measurable and not open to interpretation.

Google that and come back with the first thing that comes up in the search.

Why Physical Punishment Does Not Work

Psychology Today said:
Physical punishment is a major public health problem in this country. Approximately 60% of adults still approve of physical punishment, despite compelling evidence that it does not work, it makes things worse, and there are effective alternatives.

Physical punishment involves the use of physical force with the intention of causing the child to experience bodily pain or discomfort so as to correct or punish the child’s behavior. This includes spanking, hitting, pinching, paddling, whipping, slapping, and so on.

Spanking is a euphemism for hitting. One is not permitted to hit one’s spouse or a stranger; these actions are considered assault and battery. Why in the world should one be permitted to hit a smaller and even more vulnerable child?

Studies show that children who are hit identify with the aggressor and are more likely to become hitters themselves, i.e. bullies and future abusers of their children and spouses. They tend to learn to use violent behavior as a way to deal with disputes.

If hitting a child is not wrong, then nothing is wrong.

The data in this area have recently been summarized by Elizabeth Gershoff (Report on Physical Punishment in the United States, 2008) and Susan Bitensky (Corporal Punishment of Children, 2006). The evidence shows that physical punishment is stunningly deleterious at every developmental level.

Meta-analyses of hundreds of studies document that physical punishment is associated with: verbal and physical aggression; delinquent, antisocial, and criminal behavior; poorer quality of parent-child relationships; impaired mental health; and later abuse of one’s own spouse and children.

Internationally, there is increasing consensus that physical punishment of children violates international human rights laws.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
Hard science vs soft science.

Just making a point.

This isn't a ones and zeros science.

You're basing this off of your own anecdotal evidence? You know it's this kind of bullshit that leads to anti-vaxxers, right? You can't just say "oh, but science doesn't know" over a thing like this, and over 20 years of research. What the shit.
 

Doc_Drop

Member
I'll pop either of my daughters on the butt about as hard as I pop my girlfriend when she walks by me on the couch (she does it to me too :p). That's the severity of the "strike". Nothing but an attention grabber, and results in no tears.

It's closer to a love tap than a "spanking/beating".

I think some people here are visualizing veins popping as you deliver the 10th strike of a rage induced beat down. (which does happen in many households sadly)

The belts/switches/open palm swings won't ever happen in my household.
The problem with allowing physical abuse towards children depending on severity is that the people who are deciding how bad the physicality is often are bad people using that to justify harmful violence.
 
Of course, parents are strategic. They don't want other people finding out the abuse. So the way they hit their kids is in such a way that it doesn't leave marks. Also parents being in science doesn't mean they practice what they're taught, they can be hypocrites.

These studies didn't exists 30-40 years ago.

How could they or anyone else have known?

All this is change is from human advancement in the modern era.

You're basing this off of your own anecdotal evidence? You know it's this kind of bullshit that leads to anti-vaxxers, right? You can't just say "oh, but science doesn't know" over a thing like this, and over 20 years of research. What the shit.

Jesus christ. Some of you guys are so quick to respond that you even read the context of the thing you're responding to.

I was not talking about myself or hitting kids. The only thing I was pointing out is that there is a different in "social" sciences and things like fucking chemistry.

Stop bringing up the anti vaxxer bullshit. Those are not studies based on interpretation. Those are numbers and numbers are hard science.
 

Voidwolf

Member
I wish I had never been hit but I have to admit it sure worked on me. My parents never went to far with it though, usually just the rule of 3. Whether it was the belt, flip flop (I'd just pretend this one hurt), or bare handed. I learned to behave at a very young age and have had adults compliment my parents on my behavior ever since I was a kid, same with my sisters. They practically never spanked my little sister tho, and she's kind of a brat sometimes. I've never been a violent person and have a lot of patience with people, more than some deserve. My parents however, have expressed regret in the way they handled our discipline even though they did a good job with it. The stories I hear about my grandparents... Holy hell I'd never think it was true from how sweet they are to us lol.
 

Septimius

Junior Member
While I agree (and can't really see a situation where I would find benefits in going physical with a kid), I'm still not totally convinced there should be laws that go farther than banning "real" children abuse. I'd rather convince people.

Also, I've seen people that fight hard against any remotely physical action that use psychological things that are at least as nasty, if not more.

False equivocation. Research shows that physical punishment only has the potential to be bad.

lol, this.

I was spanked as a kid when I got really out of line. I'm not a broken adult because of it.

Yeah, we really should advocate for hitting our children because it didn't negatively damage you.

What.
 

sensui-tomo

Member
I mean are you raising an impressionable girlfriend or coworker and trying to show them that their decisions sometimes come with consequences? Nobody is saying to go Mike Tyson on a child.

i'm fixing my girlfriend/child making them better, aka whatever other abusive spouse comment you hear from abusive assholes towards their significant other. and for the coworker example.... i'm making him a better worker by spanking him/her when they werent working on the clock.

Point is, just because its your child, doesnt give you the right to hit them, just like you cant hit a partner/pet/whatever.
 

Poppy

Member
if you hit your kids then good job forcing children into the world only to turn around and backhand them for doing something you dont like

you are the horror of existence
 
The discussion should be what is worse constantly screaming at your children or physical punishment.

Physical punishment(like a bop on the side of the head or even an ass whoopin) is quick and fleeting. If you explain what happened and why you did it , in my opinion, you will find you will not have to do it as much(or at all). A little bit of fear is healthy.

Constantly screaming creates long term trauma (in my opinion) and literally gets nothing done. Taking away things or telling them to go their room in isolation does nothing as well.

Btw I am a parent and no I don't beat the shit out of my child whenever he screws up. I usually lead with a discussion as to what he did wrong. Not every situation requires me going upside his head. However, I have to raise my son in a world... we don't need to go into that.
 

Doc_Drop

Member
While I agree (and can't really see a situation where I would find benefits in going physical with a kid), I'm still not totally convinced there should be laws that go farther than banning "real" children abuse. I'd rather convince people.

Also, I've seen people that fight hard against any remotely physical action that use psychological things that are at least as nasty, if not more.
Define "real"

Also, yes verbal and emotional abuse is also child abuse
 
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