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HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-05-2017, 08:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

Not saying it's better moderated, but it's fucking bullshit that the guy received a warning for speaking his mind in a respectful manner. He doesn't take issue with what was presented in the OP and he thinks Quiet is fine, the rest of your interpretation on what he posted is literally headcanon. Guess what, there's fuck nothing wrong with Quiet's design. You can disagree with me, but you can't say that somehow this opinion should be moderated because it offends your sensibilities. That's not civil discourse comrade.

And that is the problem with the past GAF moderation, it was overtly sensitive over harmless shit like "Quiet is fine". Not every moderator was like that mind you, but some used his/her powers abusively.

If you take things out of context sure. The OP for that thread was very long, well thought and reasoned and not at all antagonistic or hyperbolic. That post that got warned was a single short drive by post that not only added nothing of value to the conversation but was instantly dismissive of all the work the OP put into starting that thread. If all you're going to add to such a well made OP is,"I don't see a problem" then you had better just not post as at worse you're just attention seeking and dumb and at worst you're using a very well oiled strategy to throw off discourse.
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 08:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by HStallion

If you take things out of context sure. The OP for that thread was very long, well thought and reasoned and not at all antagonistic or hyperbolic. That post that got warned was a single short drive by post that not only added nothing of value to the conversation but was instantly dismissive of all the work the OP put into starting that thread. If all you're going to add to such a well made OP is,"I don't see a problem" then you had better just not post as at worse you're just attention seeking and dumb and at worst you're using a very well oiled strategy to throw off discourse.

Why is it drive by? It was literally the first post of the thread, it's not like he parachuted disrespectfully in a long discussion. And being "well thought and reasoned" doesn't mean people should agree with you. And I very much disagree with the idea that it would have been better if he hadn't posted anything, that's ridiculous, that post is in no way shape or form worse than someone saying "well I agree OP". Not every opinion needs to be long-form and people saying they disagree are continuing the discussion because it opens up for someone else to further explain why they disagree. A discussion where only one kind of opinion is valid lest we find anything wrong with what you posted is not a fucking discussion.
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-05-2017, 09:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

Why is it drive by? It was literally the first post of the thread, it's not like he parachuted disrespectfully in a long discussion. And being "well thought and reasoned" doesn't mean people should agree with you. And I very much disagree with the idea that it would have been better if he hadn't posted anything, that's ridiculous, that post is in no way shape or form worse than someone saying "well I agree OP". Not every opinion needs to be long-form and people saying they disagree are continuing the discussion because it opens up for someone else to further explain why they disagree. A discussion where only one kind of opinion is valid lest we find anything wrong with what you posted is not a fucking discussion.

The point is that these kinds of topics are met with these dismissive bull shitty posts that add nothing to the topic of conversation and detract from it by undercutting the OP without offering anything counter to it, just,"I don't care" or "it doesn't bother me". As I said at best they're useless posts to show off how above it all or aloof someone is or they're disingenuous tactics to derail the conversation before it starts. This was also not an isolated post. Posts in agreement might not add much to the topic but they're also not ones that often become the focus of a derailment or disparage the topic with the same shitty hot take we've seen ten thousand times before.

Those kinds of posts are not tolerated whether its in a frivolous silly topic or something sincere and serious in nature.
krazen
Member
(12-05-2017, 09:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

Why is it drive by? It was literally the first post of the thread, it's not like he parachuted disrespectfully in a long discussion. And being "well thought and reasoned" doesn't mean people should agree with you. And I very much disagree with the idea that it would have been better if he hadn't posted anything, that's ridiculous, that post is in no way shape or form worse than someone saying "well I agree OP". Not every opinion needs to be long-form and people saying they disagree are continuing the discussion because it opens up for someone else to further explain why they disagree. A discussion where only one kind of opinion is valid lest we find anything wrong with what you posted is not a fucking discussion.

Because notice he attacks the crux of the topic ‘i don’t know why people care about anything in this op’ gives a one line shrug of a negative reply and thats it.

If I write up an OP on lets say football in general, and the first reply is “Eh, i dont know why anyone cares about this sport, it seems stupid, and i don’t see my opinion changing on it at all, cheerio!” Id be pissed; they added nothing to the convo.

You can have a simple opinion but if the opinion is basically “the topic of the OP is stupid” we might as well be arguing on twitter slinging cursewords at each other in 140 characters.
Ancient Gray
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(12-05-2017, 09:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by krazen

Because notice he attacks the crux of the topic ‘i don’t know why people care about anything in this op’ gives a one line shrug of a negative reply and thats it.

If I write up an OP on lets say football in general, and the first reply is “Eh, i dont know why anyone cares about this sport, it seems stupid, and i don’t see my opinion changing on it at all, cheerio!” Id be pissed; they added nothing to the convo.

You can have a simple opinion but if the opinion is basically “the topic of the OP is stupid” we might as well be arguing on twitter slinging cursewords at each other in 140 characters.

That's great and all but he never said that in his post...
tkscz
Member
(12-05-2017, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by krazen

Because notice he attacks the crux of the topic ‘i don’t know why people care about anything in this op’ gives a one line shrug of a negative reply and thats it.

If I write up an OP on lets say football in general, and the first reply is “Eh, i dont know why anyone cares about this sport, it seems stupid, and i don’t see my opinion changing on it at all, cheerio!” Id be pissed; they added nothing to the convo.

You can have a simple opinion but if the opinion is basically “the topic of the OP is stupid” we might as well be arguing on twitter slinging cursewords at each other in 140 characters.

Why be pissed? They added nothing, ok. Ignore their post. I get it, you wrote something long and well thought out and wanted constructed feed back, but not everyone is going to write constructive feed back. Honestly, if that's the case, then "I agree OP, and anyone who disagrees needs not post. Laters" should bother you just as much as it still didn't add anything to the argument or give any reason why someone who disagrees is wrong.
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-05-2017, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ancient Gray

That's great and all but he never said that in his post...

Did you read my post? That is exactly what I was talking about.


Originally Posted by tkscz

Why be pissed? They added nothing, ok. Ignore their post. I get it, you wrote something long and well thought out and wanted constructed feed back, but not everyone is going to write constructive feed back. Honestly, if that's the case, then "I agree OP, and anyone who disagrees needs not post. Laters" should bother you just as much as it still didn't add anything to the argument or give any reason why someone who disagrees is wrong.

Then don't post in the thread if that is all you have up offer as the rules are pretty clear about those kinds of posts.
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 09:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by HStallion

The point is that these kinds of topics are met with these dismissive bull shitty posts that add nothing to the topic of conversation and detract from it by undercutting the OP without offering anything counter to it, just,"I don't care" or "it doesn't bother me". As I said at best they're useless posts to show off how above it all or aloof someone is or they're disingenuous tactics to derail the conversation before it starts. This was also not an isolated post. Posts in agreement might not add much to the topic but they're also not ones that often become the focus of a derailment or disparage the topic with the same shitty hot take we've seen ten thousand times before.

Those kinds of posts are not tolerated whether its in a frivolous silly topic or something sincere and serious in nature.

He did offer stuff to counter it, he said he thinks there's nothing wrong with Quiet's design. hOW is he supposed to give a more profound analysis on that? It's an opinion, he shouldn't have to explain it in unreasonable details. That's a valid opinion or at the very least it's not less valid than someone saying "agreed OP" or anything like that, disagreeing is not a fucking derailment, it's a natural part of the discussion. And really, no amount of mental gymnastics is going to change the fact that you think someone disagreeing with what was presented should be handled by the moderation because it doesn't clear some arbitrary bar you set up.

Let me give you an example of what I mean. This was posted earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by Nick Hopewell

It is.

This was an answer to "I haven't seen any racism here, unless you feel that anything pro-Trump is inherently racist". Do you think that is threadshitting? Do you think that is also a "a single short drive by post that not only added nothing of value to the conversation"?

Originally Posted by krazen

Because notice he attacks the crux of the topic ‘i don’t know why people care about anything in this op’ gives a one line shrug of a negative reply and thats it.

If I write up an OP on lets say football in general, and the first reply is “Eh, i dont know why anyone cares about this sport, it seems stupid, and i don’t see my opinion changing on it at all, cheerio!” Id be pissed; they added nothing to the convo.

You can have a simple opinion but if the opinion is basically “the topic of the OP is stupid” we might as well be arguing on twitter slinging cursewords at each other in 140 characters.

He never said "I don't know why people care about anything in this OP", he said he as a free individual doesn't take issue with it. He didn't say "the topic of the OP is stupid", he said he personally isn't bothered by how Quiet was designed. Nothing that he said can logically be perceived as disrespectful or dismissive of what was in the OP, it's just his opinion on the subject.

Your example about football doesn't apply because that's not what the guy said, but I personally would be very okay with that opinion (sans the cheerio bit, obviously). They added to the conversation, they opened up the possibility of a different perspective. You post a thread saying something is great, someone says it's not great, that's a discussion! Now, you post a thread saying something is great and people aren't allowed to say it's not great unless they write a fucking essay, that's not a discussion, that's circle jerking.
krazen
Member
(12-05-2017, 09:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ancient Gray

That's great and all but he never said that in his post...

Yes they did. Just because they covered it up in niceties ("Sorry, but") doesn't mean he attacked the whole point of the post.

"I can't be bothered by it" (the entire topic of the OP)

What's the use of that? If my post is about how I feel that space travel and the first reply is this motherfucking going:

"Sorry, I can't be bothered to think about or even care about space travel."

LOL. What kind of discussion we gonna have from that point on?

Originally Posted by tkscz

Why be pissed? They added nothing, ok. Ignore their post. I get it, you wrote something long and well thought out and wanted constructed feed back, but not everyone is going to write constructive feed back. Honestly, if that's the case, then "I agree OP, and anyone who disagrees needs not post. Laters" should bother you just as much as it still didn't add anything to the argument or give any reason why someone who disagrees is wrong.

Me? I would ignore it. But I By the same token I can't be mad at the moderators for calling it out. The natural message board law of shitty posts is that if the member thef the OP was stupid he should vote the way most people on a messageboard vote; letting the topic brick and fall off the first page asap.

It was just a nicely written 'this topic is stupid' post. I do think to a certain extent that the moderation was heavy handed to slap him for it, at the same time when you get posts like that its usually a few sarcastic replies of 'So do you want a cookie?/Good for you!' which starts the derailing anyway, might as well put him in the penalty box to salvage the beginning of the convo

Basically its up to the mods toleration of bait replies

Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

He never said "I don't know why people care about anything in this OP", he said he as a free individual doesn't take issue with it. He didn't say "the topic of the OP is stupid", he said he personally isn't bothered by how Quiet was designed. Nothing that he said can logically be perceived as disrespectful or dismissive of what was in the OP, it's just his opinion on the subject.


He did though. Like I said above he just wrapped it in niceties. Modern internet snark is more nuanced then just 'you're stupid' hence why I threw in the 'Cherrio!' part because we are debating the statement as if the reply wasn't ultimately an asshole reply because of the verbiage when the intent imho is clear. He wanted to specifically tell us he didn't care about the OP...why? At least say the OP is wrong and give a point why. He didn't even bother to do that
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 09:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by krazen

He did though. Like I said above he just wrapped it in niceties.

No he didn't. He said he personally doesn't see that as an issue and he is fine with sexier characters and that he doesn't think it will change anytime soon. I don't see any deeper hidden message other than a guy voicing his disagreement on the subject.

Edit: just saw your edit, how was he supposed to "give a point why"? Do you hold every post to that standard?
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-05-2017, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

He did offer stuff to counter it, he said he thinks there's nothing wrong with Quiet's design. hOW is he supposed to give a more profound analysis on that? It's an opinion, he shouldn't have to explain it in unreasonable details. That's a valid opinion or at the very least it's not less valid than someone saying "agreed OP" or anything like that, disagreeing is not a fucking derailment, it's a natural part of the discussion. And really, no amount of mental gymnastics is going to change the fact that you think someone disagreeing with what was presented should be handled by the moderation because it doesn't clear some arbitrary bar you set up.

You don't seem to get the fact that them having an opinion doesn't mean it has to be stated, let alone heard. That "opinion" was not nuanced, it was not clever, it was not explained at all and did little to nothing to add to that topic except to tell us bluntly about how the partsoster felt in the most uninspired ways possible. If you're going to respond to the topic, then respond to it and not just post a drive by. Also explaining things after the fact doesn't help when the shit post was already made and the damage done.
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 10:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by HStallion

You don't seem to get the fact that them having an opinion doesn't mean it has to be stated, let alone heard. That "opinion" was not nuanced, it was not clever, it was not explained at all and did little to nothing to add to that topic except to tell us bluntly about how the partsoster felt in the most uninspired ways possible. If you're going to respond to the topic, then respond to it and not just post a drive by. Also explaining things after the fact doesn't help when the shit post was already made and the damage done.

Sorry man, I do not agree at all. I don't think being allowed to voice your opinion should be predicated on clearing some arbitrary parameters, it shouldn't be "you can only disagree with me if you can back it up" and "back it up" meaning an abstract immensurable standard you set unilaterally. Disagreement adds to the discussion because it gives a different perspective if the person posts it respectfully. Now if the guy had said "I like tits and ass" or "this is stupid" or "nope", then yeah, I think that would warrant some reprehension by the mods. Someone saying "this doesn't bother me much and I think Quiet's design is awesome" is 100% valid.
krazen
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(12-05-2017, 10:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

No he didn't. He said he personally doesn't see that as an issue and he is fine with sexier characters and that he doesn't think it will change anytime soon. I don't see any deeper hidden message other than a guy voicing his disagreement on the subject.

Edit: just saw your edit, how was he supposed to "give a point why"? Do you hold every post to that standard?

Actually yes. You can disagree with a point I made but at least give me something to work with. Im not a mod tho, so all I have is sarcasm to retort with, lol.

I am just confused at your counterpoint. So you're saying:

"Well he personally said this OP isn't for him and that no matter what happens in the OP his mind won't change, I think that his reply was no-snark/in 100% good faith?"

But you recognized my remix with just a 'Cherrio' added to it as going too far?

Its the same difference. If your only contribution to the thread is you don't get the point, the point doesn't matter to you, and no, you probably won't change your mind, by its definition its an intentional asshole move on a forum where the title says discussion.

Imho you can agree or disagree with the point the OP puts out. But to say the entire topic doesn't matter in one sentence is the definition of a drive by shit post.
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 10:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by krazen

Actually yes. You can disagree with a point I made but at least give me something to work with. Im not a mod tho, so all I have is sarcasm to retort with, lol.

I am just confused at your counterpoint. So you're saying:

"Well he personally said this OP isn't for him and that no matter what happens in the OP his mind won't change, I think that his reply was no-snark/in 100% good faith?"

But you recognized my remix with just a 'Cherrio' added to it as going too far?

Its the same difference. If your only contribution to the thread is you don't get the point, the point doesn't matter to you, and no, you probably won't change your mind, by its definition its an intentional asshole move on a forum where the title says discussion.

Imho you can agree or disagree with the point the OP puts out. But to say the entire topic doesn't matter in one sentence is the definition of a drive by shit post.

First off, I didn't say that. I didn't mean that. At no point did I say anything that could be mistaken for "no matter what happens in the OP his mind won't change". And the cheerio bit wouldn't be very nice, but if you posted I don't think the moderation should get involved anyway, it would just lessen the chance of me giving you a polite answer. It doesn't transform your post into shitposting, it just makes it a bit less inviting because it sounds like you're mocking the other person. The guy in the Quiet example never sounded like he was mocking anyone.

Thing is, you're arguing shit that didn't happen. He never said the "entire topic doesn't matter". He got the point, he just didn't agree with the point. He didn't specify anything about "changing his mind". Saying "I don't agree with what you said" is part of the discussion.
krazen
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(12-05-2017, 10:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

He got the point, he just didn't agree with the point. He didn't specify anything about "changing his mind". Saying "I don't agree with what you said" is part of the discussion.

Sorry, but I can't make myself get bothered by it or take issue with it. I'm personally fine with things like Quiet and I don't see that changing anytime soon

So, why you here than if you're telling us you ain't bothered, have no issue, and won't change ya mind. lol.

With all this back and forth my minds gettin fuzzy on the OP. If the OP was

"Does Quiet's design bother you"

then yeah, good faith.

That wasn't the OP tho if I remember right, anyone have a link?
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-05-2017, 10:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

Sorry man, I do not agree at all. I don't think being allowed to voice your opinion should be predicated on clearing some arbitrary parameters, it shouldn't be "you can only disagree with me if you can back it up" and "back it up" meaning an abstract immensurable standard you set unilaterally. Disagreement adds to the discussion because it gives a different perspective if the person posts it respectfully. Now if the guy had said "I like tits and ass" or "this is stupid" or "nope", then yeah, I think that would warrant some reprehension by the mods. Someone saying "this doesn't bother me much and I think Quiet's design is awesome" is 100% valid.

That entire thread was based off the OP wanting to talk about improving discourse and discussion over such hot button topics as sexism and the like because of how lackluster the dialogue often is in the gaming community. Coming in with a simple ass hot take that out right dismisses the entire point of that thread does nothing to push the conversation forward and is in fact totally detrimental to the topic. In fact it was the very thing the OP was talking about when they made that post and was out right ignored by that first poster.
BANGS
Member
(12-05-2017, 10:55 PM)
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It's definitely gotten alot better. Before, we had trolls tearing up the whole site with mods at their back banning anyone who wasn't the craziest sjw you've ever met...

Now we can have discussions and debates in peace without the threat of being banned for simply disagreeing with said trolls...
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 11:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by HStallion

That entire thread was based off the OP wanting to talk about improving discourse and discussion over such hot button topics as sexism and the like because of how lackluster the dialogue often is in the gaming community. Coming in with a simple ass hot take that out right dismisses the entire point of that thread does nothing to push the conversation forward and is in fact totally detrimental to the topic. In fact it was the very thing the OP was talking about when they made that post and was out right ignored by that first poster.

It doesn't dismiss anything, it presents an opinion that is related to the OP. The guy doesn't think there is an issue with how women are presented in video games and he especially disagrees with the notion that Quiet's design is harmful. He never says it's a stupid topic or anything. That's not a "simple ass hot take", that's simply a take. If you can't take people disagreeing with what OP presented, you don't want "improving discourse and discussion", you want your view to be more commonly accepted. Which is fine, we all do, just don't pass it as "quality of discussion" concerns when it's not.

Originally Posted by krazen

Sorry, but I can't make myself get bothered by it or take issue with it. I'm personally fine with things like Quiet and I don't see that changing anytime soon

So, why you here than if you're telling us you ain't bothered, have no issue, and won't change ya mind. lol.

With all this back and forth my minds gettin fuzzy on the OP. If the OP was

"Does Quiet's design bother you"

then yeah, good faith.

That wasn't the OP tho if I remember right, anyone have a link?

Here. It mentions Quiet. And I legit thought "I don't see that changing anytime soon" was about him not seeing how women are portrayed changing anytime soon lol but that doesn't change my point.

Edit: like David below me pointed out, links are dead. The thread title is "We need to get better at discussing diversity and representation issues".
David___
Member
(12-05-2017, 11:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by krazen

Sorry, but I can't make myself get bothered by it or take issue with it. I'm personally fine with things like Quiet and I don't see that changing anytime soon

So, why you here than if you're telling us you ain't bothered, have no issue, and won't change ya mind. lol.

With all this back and forth my minds gettin fuzzy on the OP. If the OP was

"Does Quiet's design bother you"

then yeah, good faith.

That wasn't the OP tho if I remember right, anyone have a link?

Links wont work cause the site's banned
Ancient Gray
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(12-05-2017, 11:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by HStallion

Coming in with a simple ass hot take that out right dismisses the entire point of that thread does nothing to push the conversation forward and is in fact totally detrimental to the topic.

Originally Posted by krazen

Actually yes. You can disagree with a point I made but at least give me something to work with.


These parts of your posts. These. This is the problem right here. This is the issue. Stop it. You two need to stop right now.

The idea that every poster on a forum has to share the same level of interest in a debate in order to comment on it is asinine. Then to double down and be dissatisfied with a throwaway opinion that shows a general disinterest in the debate by calling it a "drive by" is equally suppressive and silly.

I've posted on several forums over the years and I've never once heard anyone speak with such conviction over such an innocuous post. Good grief. Were people here so insecure that they were threatened by someone saying they don't care? I'm really baffled by this. It's like you think a single apathetic disagreement would derail a thread. It doesn't. If it derails a thread, it's not the person who made the throwaway commentary that's to blame. It's the 200 people quoting that throwaway commentary and moaning about their lack of interest and demanding they explain themselves.

Nobody is obliged to "give you something to work with". And if you can't find a way to work with a comment...well, you're also not obliged to respond. There's a fundamental misunderstanding of forums here that definitely points to heavy moderation and suppression of less popular opinions prior to the fallout. If that linked post was the kind of post that would give you a strike back then...holy hell. No wonder there's a bunch of bleeding hearts still here crying about the destruction of their safe space.

You guys seem convinced that every single OP needs to be taken with some intense analysis and would rather not dare entertain the idea of asking yourselves if an OP even needs that scrutiny. Lack of concern is a totally valid point in many circumstances. How far do you take some discussion before you decide whether or not it's valid? How the hell did you guys determine this in the past when basically saying "What's the big deal?" was something that could get you eventually banned?

I'm consistently amazed at how bent out of shape certain people are here.
krazen
Member
(12-05-2017, 11:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

It doesn't dismiss anything, it presents an opinion that is related to the OP. The guy doesn't think there is an issue with how women are presented in video games and he especially disagrees with the notion that Quiet's design is harmful. He never says it's a stupid topic or anything. That's not a "simple ass hot take", that's simply a take. If you can't take people disagreeing with what OP presented, you don't want "improving discourse and discussion", you want your view to be more commonly accepted. Which is fine, we all do, just don't pass it as "quality of discussion" concerns when it's not.



Here. It mentions Quiet. And I legit thought "I don't see that changing anytime soon" was about him not seeing how women are portrayed changing anytime soon lol but that doesn't change my point.

Edit: like David below me pointed out, links are dead. The thread title is "We need to get better at discussing diversity and representation issues".

Thanks.

But that's my point. He could say 'Yes, we need to get better at discussing XXX" or "No, we don't need to get better at discussing XXX"

He was like 'I just want you guys, all you guys reading to know, it doesn't matter to me' *Flies out of post on Above it All Airlines*.

If he said, 'i don't see diversity as an issue' that's a good argument even if its just that line.
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-05-2017, 11:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ancient Gray

These parts of your posts. These. This is the problem right here. This is the issue. Stop it. You two need to stop right now.

The idea that every poster on a forum has to share the same level of interest in a debate in order to comment on it is asinine. Then to double down and be dissatisfied with a throwaway opinion that shows a general disinterest in the debate by calling it a "drive by" is equally suppressive and silly.

I've posted on several forums over the years and I've never once heard anyone speak with such conviction over such an innocuous post. Good grief. Were people here so insecure that they were threatened by someone saying they don't care? I'm really baffled by this. It's like you think a single apathetic disagreement would derail a thread. It doesn't. If it derails a thread, it's not the person who made the throwaway commentary that's to blame. It's the 200 people quoting that throwaway commentary and moaning about their lack of interest and demanding they explain themselves.

Nobody is obliged to "give you something to work with". And if you can't find a way to work with a comment...well, you're also not obliged to respond. There's a fundamental misunderstanding of forums here that definitely points to heavy moderation and suppression of less popular opinions prior to the fallout. If that linked post was the kind of post that would give you a strike back then...holy hell. No wonder there's a bunch of bleeding hearts still here crying about the destruction of their safe space.

You guys seem convinced that every single OP needs to be taken with some intense analysis and would rather not dare entertain the idea of asking yourselves if an OP even needs that scrutiny. Lack of concern is a totally valid point in many circumstances. How far do you take some discussion before you decide whether or not it's valid? How the hell did you guys determine this in the past when basically saying "What's the big deal?" was something that could get you eventually banned?

I'm consistently amazed at how bent out of shape certain people are here.

Damn I love this post lol. It would be one thing if the forum jumped on the guy (like they did) because his opinion doesn't conform with the majority, but to actually reprehend him over that? That's ridiculous. That warning is basically a "don't do it again or it's the Gulag for you", how is that not censorship? Censorship fucking sucks and yet people defend it for some innocuous comment, I don't get it.

The dude wasn't disrespectful. He wasn't incoherent. He wasn't even indefensible. He flat out received a warning for wrong thinking. Such a mature discussion indeed.

Originally Posted by krazen

Thanks.

But that's my point. He could say 'Yes, we need to get better at discussing XXX" or "No, we don't need to get better at discussing XXX"

He was like 'I just want you guys, all you guys reading to know, it doesn't matter to me' *Flies out of post on Above it All Airlines*.

If he said, 'i don't see diversity as an issue' that's a good argument even if its just that line.

A bad argument doesn't merit any sort of punishment. An offensive or disrespectful one does and he was neither. He simply wasn't allowed to not view what the OP argued for as a problem.
David___
Member
(12-06-2017, 12:00 AM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie



A bad argument doesn't merit any sort of punishment. An offensive or disrespectful one does and he was neither. He simply wasn't allowed to not view what the OP argued for as a problem.

A warning isn't a punishment though.
krazen
Member
(12-06-2017, 12:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ancient Gray

These parts of your posts. These. This is the problem right here. This is the issue. Stop it. You two need to stop right now.

The idea that every poster on a forum has to share the same level of interest in a debate in order to comment on it is asinine. Then to double down and be dissatisfied with a throwaway opinion that shows a general disinterest in the debate by calling it a "drive by" is equally suppressive and silly.

I've posted on several forums over the years and I've never once heard anyone speak with such conviction over such an innocuous post. Good grief. Were people here so insecure that they were threatened by someone saying they don't care? I'm really baffled by this. It's like you think a single apathetic disagreement would derail a thread. It doesn't. If it derails a thread, it's not the person who made the throwaway commentary that's to blame. It's the 200 people quoting that throwaway commentary and moaning about their lack of interest and demanding they explain themselves.

Nobody is obliged to "give you something to work with". And if you can't find a way to work with a comment...well, you're also not obliged to respond. There's a fundamental misunderstanding of forums here that definitely points to heavy moderation and suppression of less popular opinions prior to the fallout. If that linked post was the kind of post that would give you a strike back then...holy hell. No wonder there's a bunch of bleeding hearts still here crying about the destruction of their safe space.

You guys seem convinced that every single OP needs to be taken with some intense analysis and would rather not dare entertain the idea of asking yourselves if an OP even needs that scrutiny. Lack of concern is a totally valid point in many circumstances. How far do you take some discussion before you decide whether or not it's valid? How the hell did you guys determine this in the past when basically saying "What's the big deal?" was something that could get you eventually banned?

I'm consistently amazed at how bent out of shape certain people are here.

'

Your reply is pretty worthless, I don't know why you bothered typing all those words words words, don't know why you care about how someone moderates a place they paid for. Nobody's paying you or asking you to post: for me its fine, I don't see why you are wasting a big TL:DR



























See what I mean? Lol. I moderated a few forums; its a tricky tight walk because sometimes these type of posts do derail a thread. A few replies under him amount to 'Good for you!' sarcasm, he counters with a thinly veiled but technically not personal insult of 'Its not my fault you guys care so much' and we off to the races.

If it's all us getting our panties in a bunch why bother having moderation?

They could just auto-edit out foul language assuming it covers a large amount of the personal insults and let the parties go at it *shrug*
Lionel Richie
Member
(12-06-2017, 12:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by David___

A warning isn't a punishment though.

Yes it is. It's not a severe punishment, but it's a social sanction given that it was done in the open for everyone to see and it works as a strike. Strike again and you're fucked.
Dyno
Member
(12-06-2017, 04:02 PM)
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I've been lurking since the exodus and it's been sad to witness. First the site has lost a ton of activity. Nothing moves. But that isn't why I'm posting. Is GAF more civil.? Aw hell no. The many conversations have been taken over by what I call Ugly America. The site has become a more course, mean-spirited, more intolerant place. It's the kind of place where I see no 'virtue signalling' but that term comes up every fucking day! This use to be the best sight on the internet. Now it comes off more like The Donald.

After reading the bakery thread I was forced to face the fact that this isn't a place to visit anymore. It's just too deflating, too depressing. The positivity is gone... and I'm out. Good luck all.
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(12-06-2017, 04:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lionel Richie

Yes it is. It's not a severe punishment, but it's a social sanction given that it was done in the open for everyone to see and it works as a strike. Strike again and you're fucked.

No a warning is just that, a warning. You are punished for ignoring the warning. The only people who have gotten bent out of shape over the warnings seem to be ones who were once furious at the old style of bans and the lack of transparency surrounding them. Now that bans are not used nearly as much and things are less transparent, now that's become the issue du jour. I'm pretty sure if warnings were dropped and no one ever got banned people would still find something to complain about,"Not enough people quoted me! They're ignoring me!"
Blam
Member
(12-06-2017, 04:25 PM)
Blam's Avatar

Originally Posted by Dyno

I've been lurking since the exodus and it's been sad to witness. First the site has lost a ton of activity. Nothing moves. But that isn't why I'm posting. Is GAF more civil.? Aw hell no. The many conversations have been taken over by what I call Ugly America. The site has become a more course, mean-spirited, more intolerant place. It's the kind of place where I see no 'virtue signalling' but that term comes up every fucking day! This use to be the best sight on the internet. Now it comes off more like The Donald.

After reading the bakery thread I was forced to face the fact that this isn't a place to visit anymore. It's just too deflating, too depressing. The positivity is gone... and I'm out. Good luck all.

I'll agree on this. I'm actually pretty much out of the loop when it comes to news now other then what I get from Wario 64. and /r/Games that's all for me. GAF is too slow to post anything. So I keep needing to do so. Frankly OT has become more toxic then before since that shit used to stay in the politics threads but it's pretty much spread out into the entire forum.
JordanN
Junior Member
(12-06-2017, 06:56 PM)
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I'm hoping the new mod team still allows two sided discussion instead of letting things slide to just one side.

It's easy to call everything The_Donald when old GAF would just lawnmower every user who disagreed even for inoffensive reasons.

Looking at the baker thread, the mods there are policing people to stop the insults which is good. But if the idea is you can't argue against the decision while acting in good faith, then it's just going to make GAF into a Reset-lite.

Sorry, but some people need to understand you can't coddle yourself into a world that only agrees with you. Echo chambers and the like just create the same race to the bottom where everyone is afraid to ever speak except the very few who decide what is offensive and what is not.
JordanN
Junior Member
(12-06-2017, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Dyno

The many conversations have been taken over by what I call Ugly America. The site has become a more course, mean-spirited, more intolerant place. It's the kind of place where I see no 'virtue signalling' but that term comes up every fucking day!.

There was a [now banned user] who would follow me into every thread and call me "alt-right".

"Alt-right! Alt-right! You're alt-right!"

It didn't matter how many times I disavowed alt-right politics and said it's just not for me, he turned it into a label for himself and got other users to chant it out as well.

What else could this act be? Some person had all the time in the world to do this when I kept saying "dude, it's a waste of time." Like I said, I dislike echo chambers because you'll get users like that who think the entire world is against them, even though I'm more closer to his side than not.
| Praxis |
Member
(12-06-2017, 07:14 PM)
| Praxis |'s Avatar
You did say you sympathized with alt right sensibilities and when asked to clarify this statement you ignored it. Or was that a dream?
JordanN
Junior Member
(12-06-2017, 07:30 PM)
JordanN's Avatar

Originally Posted by | Praxis |

You did say you sympathized with alt right sensibilities and when asked to clarify this statement you ignored it. Or was that a dream?

It was. People like you are stuck in a delusion world of hating on me for no reason.

Here's a question for everyone. Why would I want to be alt-right? Since people know more about me than myself, what does the alt-right have to offer that none else has?

It can't be libertarian. Or even centrism.

I said before I can't change people's minds, but I don't want users falsely accusing me of something and spreading lies. That stifles discussions but worse than that, it means the site is ok with liars and witch hunts. I suggest all further alt-right baseless accusations get buried immediately.
Nick Hopewell
Banned
(12-06-2017, 07:43 PM)
| Praxis |
Member
(12-06-2017, 07:47 PM)
| Praxis |'s Avatar

Originally Posted by JordanN

It was. People like you are stuck in a delusion world of hating on me for no reason.

Here's a question for everyone. Why would I want to be alt-right? Since people know more about me than myself, what does the alt-right have to offer that none else has?

It can't be libertarian. Or even centrism.

I said before I can't change people's minds, but I don't want users falsely accusing me of something and spreading lies. That stifles discussions but worse than that, it means the site is ok with liars and witch hunts. I suggest all further alt-right baseless accusations get buried immediately.

I'm not hating on you or ever even spoken to you in the past, persecution complex much?

It was a feint memory and I asked you a question.
JordanN
Junior Member
(12-06-2017, 07:50 PM)
JordanN's Avatar

Originally Posted by | Praxis |

I'm not hating on you or ever even spoken to you in the past, persecution complex much?

It was a feint memory and I asked you a question.

Well then I apologize if that was the case.

Like I said, I've been hounded on these boards for a label that's falsely painted on me so my reaction was a defensive one.
Resident_UA
Member
(12-06-2017, 07:50 PM)
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Ugh. Made a mistake of checking in today, figured it's been long enough. This forum is flooded with "lets try to understand majority, they are often misunderstood" while spewing "minority is doing all the oppression!!!". It's fine to disagree on issues, BUT you can't have it BOTH ways!
Blam
Member
(12-06-2017, 07:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by Resident_UA

Ugh. Made a mistake of checking in today, figured it's been long enough. This forum is flooded with "lets try to understand majority, they are often misunderstood" while spewing "minority is doing all the oppression!!!". It's fine to disagree on issues, BUT you can't have it BOTH ways!

?

Originally Posted by JordanN

I'm hoping the new mod team still allows two sided discussion instead of letting things slide to just one side.

^^^^^
Ancient Gray
Member
(12-06-2017, 07:55 PM)
Ancient Gray's Avatar

Originally Posted by JordanN

There was a [now banned user] who would follow me into every thread and call me "alt-right".

"Alt-right! Alt-right! You're alt-right!"


You misread it. That was Matthew McConaughey saying you were doing "alright alright alright".
tkscz
Member
(12-06-2017, 08:07 PM)
tkscz's Avatar

Originally Posted by Resident_UA

Ugh. Made a mistake of checking in today, figured it's been long enough. This forum is flooded with "lets try to understand majority, they are often misunderstood" while spewing "minority is doing all the oppression!!!". It's fine to disagree on issues, BUT you can't have it BOTH ways!

Can I get links to these? I keep seeing people say this is going on, but they don't name threads. So far, only one person named a thread and looking through the entire thing, I've seen significantly worse (it's the gay wedding cake thread).
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
(12-06-2017, 08:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by JordanN

It was. People like you are stuck in a delusion world of hating on me for no reason.

Here's a question for everyone. Why would I want to be alt-right? Since people know more about me than myself, what does the alt-right have to offer that none else has?

It can't be libertarian. Or even centrism.

I said before I can't change people's minds, but I don't want users falsely accusing me of something and spreading lies. That stifles discussions but worse than that, it means the site is ok with liars and witch hunts. I suggest all further alt-right baseless accusations get buried immediately.

Yes, it's everyone else who just doesn't understand.
@ShenmueGuru
Member
(12-07-2017, 02:48 PM)
@ShenmueGuru's Avatar

Originally Posted by Dyno

I've been lurking since the exodus and it's been sad to witness. First the site has lost a ton of activity. Nothing moves. But that isn't why I'm posting. Is GAF more civil.? Aw hell no. The many conversations have been taken over by what I call Ugly America. The site has become a more course, mean-spirited, more intolerant place. It's the kind of place where I see no 'virtue signalling' but that term comes up every fucking day! This use to be the best sight on the internet. Now it comes off more like The Donald.

After reading the bakery thread I was forced to face the fact that this isn't a place to visit anymore. It's just too deflating, too depressing. The positivity is gone... and I'm out. Good luck all.

On the money.

The place is essentially "dead" compared to what it used to be. It doesn't matter if the owner keeps the place open for years to come, the quality of a forum is it's posters, and the quality has sunk so so low. Its a shame reflection of what some apsects of human society are really like. The bakery topic did it for me too. It's been a so so stay here, but the internet is too big now and offers much more pleasant outlets to pass away the time.
Ancient Gray
Member
(12-07-2017, 05:20 PM)
Ancient Gray's Avatar
Then just leave?
ssolitare
Member
(12-07-2017, 05:36 PM)

Originally Posted by JordanN

It was. People like you are stuck in a delusion world of hating on me for no reason.

Here's a question for everyone. Why would I want to be alt-right? Since people know more about me than myself, what does the alt-right have to offer that none else has?

It can't be libertarian. Or even centrism.

I said before I can't change people's minds, but I don't want users falsely accusing me of something and spreading lies. That stifles discussions but worse than that, it means the site is ok with liars and witch hunts. I suggest all further alt-right baseless accusations get buried immediately.

Maybe you aren't, but the content of your posts/views make it look that way. Just a thought. I wouldn't have a discussion with you about social issues, but on hands-off economics you'd be a lot of fun.

Originally Posted by Ancient Gray

Then just leave?

Let him voice his opinion. Because you don't like it, don't tell him to leave.

In before "I'm just trying to solve your problem!"
Ancient Gray
Member
(12-07-2017, 06:00 PM)
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His opinion and me liking it or hating it isn't what's important here.
WinterIsComing
Member
(12-07-2017, 06:07 PM)
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Yep, indeed seems like a waste of one's time to be complaining about a message board when "the internet is too big now and offers much more pleasant outlets to pass away the time"
David___
Member
(12-07-2017, 06:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ancient Gray

Then just leave?

Funny how before this people would cite this as a readon this place was an echo chamber, but now its seen as a valid solution
Sarkozix le Gaulois
Junior Member
(12-07-2017, 06:14 PM)

Originally Posted by David___

Funny how before this people would cite this as a readon this place was an echo chamber, but now its seen as a valid solution

It is the only solution for him.

If he can't handle different opinions he should just leave and join that other forum, you know the one where mods tell you how to think.

Welcome back to the real world GAF.
JordanN
Junior Member
(12-07-2017, 06:24 PM)
JordanN's Avatar

Originally Posted by ssolitare

Maybe you aren't, but the content of your posts/views make it look that way. Just a thought. I wouldn't have a discussion with you about social issues, but on hands-off economics you'd be a lot of fun.

Then your actual understanding of what makes up alt-right is very poor. Especially when you still insist on calling me one (It's not "maybe" when I just said I have zero political alignments with them).

Here's a brainteaser for GAF.

There was a man for 8 years whose policy was ok with dropping bombs all over brown countries and killing innocent civilians. That sounds like a white supremacistss dream. While I would oppose such action, can you guess the man who was ok with it instead? And to top it off, was given a peace prize?


























Oh no, it's Obama. Do you consider Obama to be an alt-right nazi now? Or will you come up with some kind of bizarre excuse or rational because he did other things you liked?
Dude Abides
Member
(12-07-2017, 06:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by JordanN

Then your actual understanding of what makes up alt-right is very poor. Especially when you still insist on calling me one (It's not "maybe" when I just said I have zero political alignments with them).

Here's a brainteaser for GAF.

There was a man for 8 years whose policy was ok with dropping bombs all over brown countries and killing innocent civilians. That sounds like a white supremacists dream. While I would oppose such action, can you guess the man who was ok with it instead? And to top of it, was given a peace prize?

Oh no, it's Obama. Do you consider Obama to be an alt-right nazi now? Or will you come up with some kind of bizarre excuse or rational because he did other things you liked?

Actually your understanding of what makes up the alt right is quite poor. Military intervention in the Middle East is not high on their list of priorities. They’re largely isolationist. That’s why they were constantly calling Clinton a Warhawk. They got all mad when Trump did that strike in Syria. It would probably behoove you to learn a little about them before talking about them.
JordanN
Junior Member
(12-07-2017, 06:38 PM)
JordanN's Avatar

Originally Posted by Dude Abides

Actually your understanding of what makes up the alt right is quite poor. Military intervention in the Middle East is not high on their list of priorities. They’re largely isolationist.

Yeah, I'm sure their idol Hitler was a major peace activist. Also ignores the history of white nationalism has always been about expansion and territory control. There's also no such thing as isolationism to them when they desire a white ethnostate. Such a creation wouldn't be possible without an actual civil war.

Originally Posted by Dude Abides

They got all mad when Trump did that strike in Syria.

Now ask them if they still support Trump over Clinton? The answer will unanimously still be a yes.

Originally Posted by Dude Abides

It would probably behoove you to learn a little about them before talking about them.

You're projecting.

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