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Rubius · Nov 9, 2012

Penny Arcade called it

EDIT: From the Article "In the damage control interview after the Expo, Too Human director Denis Dyack says that Epic is partly responsible, because they made changes to the engine. This strikes me as kind of low rent. It’s like blaming Napoleon or something. Just own it with grace. If your game hits and truly delivers four player on-line co-op, with smooth frames and an epic three part story, no-one will care about this. They’ll only remember when you were an evasive dissembler."

Technosteve · Nov 9, 2012

god damn i need to find a new mint in box copy before this happens.

Rubius · Nov 9, 2012

Technosteve said:
god damn i need to find a new mint in box copy before this happens.

They sell for like 15$ with shipping.

Technosteve · Nov 9, 2012

Rubius said:
They sell for like 15$ with shipping.

you think the value will ever be over $15? investment grade game here right?

Rubius · Nov 9, 2012

Technosteve said:
you think the value will ever be over $15? investment grade game here right?

Its the kind of thing we do not know.Its like E-T for the Atari at this point, and E-T is not worth anything other than the history and the lesson.
Maybe in 30 years Too Human will be sold for 10 000$. Its a gamble.

Castef · Nov 9, 2012

firehawk12 said:
Holy shit. They're basically dead.

Actually, they are beating the corpse.

Azih · Nov 9, 2012

Castef said:
Actually, they are beating the corpse.

Burning the corpse and erasing it from history, so that it is as if it never existed......

SK was just an insanity effect, yo. I mean did you guys really think someone like Denis Dyack was actually real?

GoofsterStud · Nov 9, 2012

Sweet! Nintendo might get a good Eternal Darkness sequel after all!

Everyone wins!

graywolf323 · Nov 9, 2012

wonder how long before Microsoft pulls Too Human from Games on Demand

Minion101 · Nov 9, 2012

"Owned by Epic" Another great Dyack social experiment.

Sapphire Dreams · Nov 9, 2012

What a fall from grace

dave_m123 · Nov 9, 2012

Cheerilee said:
Whatever happened to "the customer is always right"? I'm pretty sure that used to be legally binding. Just like "possession is nine tenths of the law."

Like... if I go to McDonalds and I buy a cheeseburger, and I don't like it, then I can go back to McDonalds and demand my money back. If they don't give it to me, I can sue them. Also, I shouldn't have to hand over my half-eaten cheeseburger, I can take that cheeseburger home and "fix it" by adding more mustard, and then it's fine. Why should I give my half-eaten cheeseburger back to McDonalds? It won't do them any good. They'll just throw it in the trash. And I can use it as a base to make my new totally-original not-McDonalds cheeseburger.

There is no staff left at SK. It's just Dyack.

http://kotaku.com/5955223/what-went-wrong-with-silicon-knights-x+men-destiny

Feel sorry for the staff at SK who tried their best in those crap conditions. Dyack comes of as a bit of a c*nt. Hopefully noone in the games industry will ever take him seriously ever again or give him any power.

Good on Activision for forcing them to take it seriously.

LOL at Epic's epic result here. Hopefully most of the staff who are decent have gone elsewhere.

MrBS · Nov 9, 2012

Poor SK.

All hail Dyack!

CambriaRising · Nov 9, 2012

Picked up a sealed copy for $15. My investment may pay off in 20 years. Maybe.

Delusibeta · Nov 9, 2012

Does beg the question: "why hasn't Silicon Knights gone bankrupt yet?" There really is no way that can survive this.

Dreams-Visions · Nov 9, 2012

damn.

Jackpot · Nov 9, 2012

clem84 said:
I don't understand why they'd have to do this. After the initial problems they had with UE3, Dyack said that they decided not to use UE3 and they wrote their own engine. If they were never able to use UE3 for any of their games, why the need to recall and destroy all these games?

They lied.

And it was obvious. Of course they didn't create an in-house engine in the short time between dispute and announcement that looked and functioned identically to UE3.

crazygambit said:
Wait. But doesn't everyone use a modified version of the engine? I don't understand how that ends up in SK having to destroy all the code having to do with UE3.

More importantly, what does this mean for all the other licensees? Could they also be in risk of something like this? If I was licensing the engine or considering licensing it I'd be looking at this very carefully.

oh c'mon, man, use your noggin.

Grizzlyjin · Nov 9, 2012

Delusibeta said:
Does beg the question: "why hasn't Silicon Knights gone bankrupt yet?" There really is no way that can survive this.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they have been getting government support. Could have sworn I heard about them getting a grant or something awhile back.

Dreams-Visions · Nov 9, 2012

So what happens to all the Money MS gave (or was going to give) them for the 2 sequels that will likely never materialize now?

Cmagus · Nov 9, 2012

Damn this isn't good for them. I doubt Too Human will be worth much or rare considering it was packed in with xboxs for the longest time.

Everyone is running out and buying the games at this rate they will be able to pay the bill. I'd laugh if it had such a surge in sales that happened.

Cheerilee · Nov 9, 2012

v1oz said:
How do you know this? How can anyone outside of SK know what the source code is.

SniperHunter said:
this confirms my suspicion, the Silicon knights engine was basically hacked together with mostly UE3 code. I guess Epic found out somehow and now are making these demands

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14759#.UJ2OB-TWJcs

Silicon Knights said:
in May of 2006, with the Engine two months overdue and under the looming risk of funding for Too Human drying up if no workable engine could be found, Silicon Knights had no choice but to abandon the Engine and begin creating its own game engine (the Silicon Knights Engine).

It's also revealed: "Progress on the Silicon Knights Engine continues to date and, at this time, the Silicon Knights Engine is completely independent of Epics Engine and certainly derives no benefit from the unworkable source code provided by Epic."

"In fact, at this juncture the Silicon Knights Engine should, at a minimum, be described under the Agreement as an Enhancement of Epics Engine, which, as defined by the Agreement, is technology developed by Silicon Knights that improves upon the Engine and is therefore the property of Silicon Knights. Moreover, as development of the Silicon Knights Engine continues, the amount of code from Epics Engine employed by Silicon Knights continues to decrease. After the release of Silicon Knights Too Human, all Epic code will be removed from the Silicon Knights Engine."

The Silicon Knights Engine was made of band-aids and duct tape.

The legal status of replacing UE3 code entirely with band-aids and then calling it a completely new engine and demanding a total refund is dubious at best, but Epic apparently found that SK's replacement job was incomplete, and there were bits of chopped-up UE3 still in there.

NichM · Nov 9, 2012

Cmagus said:
Everyone is running out and buying the games at this rate they will be able to pay the bill. I'd laugh if it had such a surge in sales that happened.

They don't get any of the money from the people trying to hoard their games now. Those copies were paid for long ago by retailers. Normally, any money a developer/publisher got from a sales surge like this would be from retailers eager to reorder, but that won't happen here because all the copies have been ordered to be destroyed.

Cmagus · Nov 9, 2012

Well they were given no extensions at that point and there was almost no way an entire engine could be done in that short time they switched. Seemed kind of obvious they were reworking the code imo

NichM said:
They don't get any of the money from the people trying to hoard their games now. Those copies were paid for long ago by retailers. Normally, any money a developer/publisher got from a sales surge like this would be from retailers eager to reorder, but that won't happen here because all the copies have been ordered to be destroyed.

I know I was just joking around

lantus · Nov 10, 2012

SapientWolf said:
Who was their lawyer? Lionel Hutz?

BocoDragon · Nov 10, 2012

Rubius said:
Its the kind of thing we do not know.Its like E-T for the Atari at this point, and E-T is not worth anything other than the history and the lesson.
Maybe in 30 years Too Human will be sold for 10 000$. Its a gamble.

CambriaRising said:
Picked up a sealed copy for $15. My investment may pay off in 20 years. Maybe.

Hahahahahahahaha I'm dying here.

Yeah, this game that was released years ago, circulated through the population, and was pretty much off store shelves because it was old.... You think it's gonna be rare because there's a recall? Lol, just lol.

MisterAnderson · Nov 10, 2012

Why do they have to destroy Too Human code? Didn't they create their own engine as a result of the difficulties they were having with Unreal?

Eusis · Nov 10, 2012

MisterAnderson said:
Why do they have to destroy Too Human code? Didn't they create their own engine as a result of the difficulties they were having with Unreal?

The court ruled it was just the Unreal Engine 3 with the serial numbers scrubbed off after Epic poured over the code.

Keyser Soze · Nov 10, 2012

The game is already 5 times more expensive than earlier today...

LAWL

CambriaRising · Nov 10, 2012

BocoDragon said:
Hahahahahahahaha I'm dying here.

Yeah, this game that was released years ago, circulated through the population, and was pretty much off store shelves because it was old.... You think it's gonna be rare because there's a recall? Lol, just lol.

If I never unseal my copy? Maybe. Who knows. I might be laughing all the way to the bank in 15 years

Eusis · Nov 10, 2012

Has anyone gone to GameStop to get it? I'm thinking of going, but I don't know if despite listing them as in stock they'd refuse to sell. Would be lame if they did that to new AND used, I'd be fine just grabbing the used for $3 (and may do that even with the new option there).

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! · Nov 10, 2012

There's a quarter of a million copies of Too Human out there and there will never be near quarter of a million people looking for it so I doubt it will be much of an investment. Maybe if it was a better game (or more well received, I didn't play it so I can't comment on the quality).

Canis lupus · Nov 10, 2012

Feel bad for them. I still need to get Too Human to see what all the buzz was about, hope to find one cheap.

Eusis · Nov 10, 2012

Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku! said:
There's a quarter of a million copies of Too Human out there and there will never be near quarter of a million people looking for it so I doubt it will be much of an investment. Maybe if it was a better game (or more well received, I didn't play it so I can't comment on the quality).

Well, there's millions of copies of FFVII yet that goes for a premium anyway, but that's partially because it's actually a GOOD GAME, and one of the most pivotal out there. Still, I think this depends largely on what GameStop does: do they only send back the new copies? Or do they send back new AND used copies and reject trade ins? The former ensures it'll likely never get too valuable, but the latter does mean the number of copies out there will be decimated.

Kazerei · Nov 10, 2012

Delightful Oonsk said:
I like the alternate interpretation of the thread title that Silicon Knights must use Unreal code to eradicate all software known to man.

Oh my! Never even noticed that.

Keyser Soze said:
The game is already 5 times more expensive than earlier today...

LAWL

People aren't seriously buying the game for almost 30 euros, right? Right? ._.

Kobun Heat · Nov 10, 2012

Save your money. They can't make people return and destroy the copies that were already sold. The games will not become rare collectibles in our lifetime.

Eusis · Nov 10, 2012

Kobun Heat said:
Save your money. They can't make people return and destroy the copies that were already sold. The games will not become rare collectibles in our lifetime.

Well, it's a novelty at $3 or $6 at least. I'm not spending >$10 though, and 30 Euros? Holy fuck that's stupid.

BocoDragon · Nov 10, 2012

CambriaRising said:
If I never unseal my copy? Maybe. Who knows. I might be laughing all the way to the bank in 15 years

Yeah.. as much as ANY sealed game from today, maybe.

Why this one? There are gonna be no less copies in circulation than any other random game out there.....

Technosteve · Nov 10, 2012

Kobun Heat said:
Save your money. They can't make people return and destroy the copies that were already sold. The games will not become rare collectibles in our lifetime.

but the japan versions will be super rare tho

illadelph · Nov 10, 2012

At least we got Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes from this clown ass company

diamount · Nov 10, 2012

illadelph said:
At least we got Eternal Darkness and Twin Snakes from this clown ass company

Blood Omen, also.

border · Nov 10, 2012

Technosteve said:
but the japan versions will be super rare tho

There's a difference though, between "rare" and "desirable". I'm plenty of people have some "rare" old issues of gaming magazines in a box in their closet.....and they probably couldn't even give that crap away today.

noodalls · Nov 10, 2012

Does NPD track "shipped back" numbers?

RiZ III · Nov 10, 2012

Joni said:
He lied, they used a modified UE3 and just removed all Epic copyright statements.

Wow.. yea they deserve this then.

StrangeADT · Nov 10, 2012

Suing backfire? Suing backfire. Their company was destroyed by this.

CambriaRising · Nov 10, 2012

BocoDragon said:
Yeah.. as much as ANY sealed game from today, maybe.

Why this one? There are gonna be no less copies in circulation than any other random game out there.....

The story bro, its all about the story.

hteng · Nov 10, 2012

oh man that's the nail to the coffin, had a good run SK

chertipros · Nov 10, 2012

Goddamn this is just tragic. What a fall from grace for dyack. Thing's must be going real rough for him ATM. I know he's supposed to be some kind of douche but I genuinely feel bad

KAP151 · Nov 10, 2012

Turns out his mouth was way bigger than his brain or his wallet.

An all time crash n burn for the ages.

Thanks for ED though Dennis.

Jeff-DSA · Nov 10, 2012

Canada should boot Dyack from their gaming hall of fame.

RedSwirl · Nov 10, 2012

kami_sama said:
This is the opportunity for Nintendo to grab the Eternal Darkness IP!

Didn't Nintendo already retain it?

And why the fuck didn't Silicon Knights just get to work on that?

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