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Hillary Clinton publishing book about 2016 election in Sept titled "What Happened"

kmfdmpig

Member
Was she wrong, though? It harmed her in the election, sure. But she isn't technically wrong in calling Trump's base deplorable. They ARE deplorable. Nor are they worth reaching out to, because they CAN'T be swayed.

Elections are about winning, not being "right". Should a politician refuse to say "God bless America" because God is not real and if he/she were then God wouldn't favor a single nation anyway? It would be "right", but it would be dumb and hurt their chances to win. Obviously there's a balance to be found between winning and selling your soul, but was it so important to call a huge portion of the country deplorable that it was worth the reputation hit to do so (particularly as that was a distraction during a time when the media was rightfully tearing Trump apart).

Fuck everyone who is piling on Hillary. I was never a huge fan of her and she does not seem like a great person, but making her a skapegoat for what happened during last election in my book is pure misogyny. She is no different than any other politician so I'm sure that all the shit she is getting is simply of her gender. McCain who was destroyed by Obama during elections is still hailed as hero while Hillary is seen as pure evil.

Also this gives an excuse to all the racist assholes who voted for Trump. "no I'm not racist, he is just better than Hillary" (cough) "woman what?"

We have, by far, the worst president in the last 100 years, and probably the worst in the history of the US now due to her loss. She had what seemed like an incredible advantage and fought against an opponent who made blunder after blunder (mocked POWs/showed a lack of intellect, tact, professionalism/mocked the disabled/caught on tape being incredibly sexist, etc...).

The fact that she lost that election makes it fairly natural that some people will be upset with her about her mistakes and blunders (which were real and noted by others as they happened, not just manufactured retroactively). Misogyny certainly plays a role in how some perceive of her, and likely played a role in her loss, but the idea that any critique of her or her choices is misogynistic in nature is such an overreach that it's hard to even take seriously.

McCain was seen as an underdog candidate and trailed in the polls for much of the election cycle. Hillary was seen as someone who would have an easy stroll into the White House with polling indicating a 99% chance of victory and the preeminent pollster at the time promising to eat a bug if Trump won, etc.. The two are not really comparable at all.

I don't hate Hillary. I wish she had made better choices so that she'd be president, not Trump. The idea that people who would rather have Hillary as president are raging misogynists is a bit silly considering they wanted Hillary, not Trump as president.
 

Veelk

Banned
To blame her for 'losing' the election ignores the fundamental principle of democracy: that the leaders don't get to choose whose next. Voters do.

No one is going to deny that Hillary could have done more, least of all Hillary herself. Elections aren't a individual skill dependent sport. It's an appeal contest. And that means success is significantly dependent on how much the audience allows themselves to be appealed.

The truth is that for a significant portion of the Americans, there is literally nothing Hillary could have done because all they heard about from their news sources is EMAILS, BENGHAZI, PIZZA PROSTITUTION RING, and other bullshit like that.

So that's why I find arguments that anyone else would have won to fall flat. Trump is a moron, but so are apparently half of America, and they have fallen for the most transparent conjob in the world. After all, he did beat all 16 other republican candidates, every one of them the better qualified person regardless of their considerable shittiness.

Even with all of Hillary's faults, there is no way a sane, conscionable person could have chosen trump over her. So that means that half of america are neither sane nor conscionable. And that means there isn't really a clear answer of how to counter what Trump has become. It's not about creating a better candidate who is more qualified or even tactful than Hillary. It's about finding one who can somehow outperform his celebrity reality TV show persona.
 

Theonik

Member
A lot of people on the left fell for alt right bullshit in regards to Hillary. Bernie or Busters did not help either by either splitting the vote by going 3rd party and writing in troll ballots or not voting at all.

To put all the blame on Hillary is to ignore the stupid and flawed rational of voters who should have learned from the 2000 election.
Or maybe, just a thought, nobody owes their vote to the Democrat party and it is actually their fault for running a bad campaign.
 
If this is true hillary that we heard about when she talked in private i am so down for this. She is probably blunt and angry in this, i hope she is. If its a woe is me book, naw im good.
 
There are things you know to be true but you don't say them. Hillary didn't win anyone over to her side calling out Trump's base, but clearly she pushed others who would have voted for her away from her.

I highly doubt that. Anyone who was pushed away by her deplorable comment wasn't going to vote for her regardless.
 
Please provide proof of things they actually did or didn't do that are comparable to the things Hillary did or didn't do.

Al Gore's faux paus was that he tried to distance himself from Bill. If he even just had Bill go to Florida only, he would have won handily.

John Kerry was just an uncharismatic frankenstein's monster.

My point wasn't that Hillary was a perfect, flawless, or even great candidate. And her campaign and campaign management has been proven to have spectacularly dropped the ball. Not in dispute on this.

But there's a certain "atone for your sins and exile yourself to the sea, lady" bitterness whenever Hillary's name surfaces that Al Gore and John Kerry weren't experiencing eight months after their losses, despite both of them being relatively uncharismatic politicians in their own right. People just sort of moved on, forgot about them (to an extent) and looked forward. It's just part of this general inability to get over a shit primary and shit election.

Hillary made a lot of mistakes, her campaign made a lot of mistakes, and I hope she addresses them honestly in this book. But 2016 was a historically weird election for a number of reasons and she has a basic right to talk about it.

And I've said multiple times on this forum that I think Hillary should keep out of involving herself in Democratic party politics going forward for their own mutual benefit, but she doesn't need to hide in a cave until the sun dies out.
 
He also wasted a trillion dollars on a useless war addionally to the lives lost, it'll take Trump a while to burn that much money. Not to mention all the costs that you can't really put a number behind, like the strengthening of extremism as a result of the actions the US took after 9/11.

Ask yourself how Trump would have handled 9/11 if he was president when it happened.

But there's a certain "atone for your sins and exile yourself to the sea, lady" bitterness whenever Hillary's name surfaces that Al Gore and John Kerry weren't experiencing eight months after their losses, despite both of them being relatively uncharismatic politicians in their own right. People just sort of moved on, forgot about them (to an extent) and looked forward. It's just part of this general inability to get over a shit primary and shit election

Because the people gore, kerry, mccain, and romney lost to weren't horribly inept at the job they were elected to. Trump's disgusting comments and actions make headlines everywhere. Social media has also grown a ton even in the 8 years since McCain lost (Nobody expected Romeny to win). 2008 how many people had a smart phone? 2016 how many people DON'T have a smart phone?
 
Remember when Trump hinted that someone should kill her?
Remember when Trump said she co-founded ISIS?

No, all everyone remembers is Clinton's objectively true statement that Trump's voters are "in the basket of deplorables".

The sheer gall of those """"moderate"""" """"centrists""".
 

Gunblade47

Neo Member
I'd read it. Would find it facinating to see how establishment politics ultimately lost to a man that fed of the worst of human characteristics.

Whether it will be insightful I cant rightly say at this point. But historical lessons should be taken from the election that made an orange reality tv star into "the leader of the free world".

Im a Sanders supporter but now is the time to learn what we can. Not mock others in the liberal movement.
 

DR2K

Banned
Too soon. I'm not against her writing this book, but we got shit we are dealing with here in America. Save this book for a few years down the line IMO.

We're not dealing with anything even as a collective. We can read a book just fine.
 
What other examples do I need? I believe if she did everything exactly the same but happened to be male, this thread would be barely a page.
You're delusional.

The fact she's a woman is irrelevant. The fact people keep pushing that her gender is the reason people hate, is in itself sexist.

Stop making this about gender. She fucked up a sure thing.
 
You can believe something. Doesn't mean it's true.

It could be false. Anything is possible. But I can't come up with a single reason why Hillary is hated. She is one of the most qualified presidential nominees in recent history. Sure her campaign was kinda shit, but she isn't the only one to blame for shitty campaign.
 
It could be false. Anything is possible. But I can't come up with a single reason why Hillary is hated. She is one of the most qualified presidential nominees in recent history. Sure her campaign was kinda shit, but she isn't the only one to blame for shitty campaign.
You just gave a reason. Her campaign was "kinda shit". How many billions of dollars did she have to campaign with? There is no excuse for running a bad campaign. Woman or man.
 

Deku Tree

Member
This is what the book should say:

"I tried to appeal to moderate republicans who didn't vote for me, and that turned off my base who I took for granted, this made an election that should have been a blow out a close election but I was going to win anyway until comey and Russians tilted the last 1% difference. "

This is what the book is going to say:


chapter 1: comey
chapter 2: the media
chapter 3: bernie bros
chapter 4: electoral collage
closing chapter: not my fault
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
It could be false. Anything is possible. But I can't come up with a single reason why Hillary is hated. She is one of the most qualified presidential nominees in recent history. Sure her campaign was kinda shit, but she isn't the only one to blame for shitty campaign.

Read your sentences back to back lol.
 
You're delusional.

The fact she's a woman is irrational. The fact people keep pushing that her gender is the reason people hate, is in itself sexist.

Stop making this about gender. She fucked up a sure thing.

How did she fuck up? Was she the only person running her campaign? That's what I don't get. Why is she to blame for everything?
 

D4Danger

Unconfirmed Member
It could be false. Anything is possible. But I can't come up with a single reason why Hillary is hated. She is one of the most qualified presidential nominees in recent history. Sure her campaign was kinda shit, but she isn't the only one to blame for shitty campaign.

I mean that's a start
 

jfkgoblue

Member
It could be false. Anything is possible. But I can't come up with a single reason why Hillary is hated. She is one of the most qualified presidential nominees in recent history. Sure her campaign was kinda shit, but she isn't the only one to blame for shitty campaign.
She was hated by the right because she is a well known Democrat in the public eye for decades, and is now hated by the left because SHE LOST TO DONALD FUCKING TRUMP. What is so fucking hard to understand about this?
 

kirblar

Member
Or maybe, just a thought, nobody owes their vote to the Democrat party and it is actually their fault for running a bad campaign.
Gee, I can't imagine why someone using "Democrat Party" would want to encourage the narrative that people should vote for people other than Dems even w a man like Trump on the ballot.
 
horrible horrible campaign. She basically gave Trump free reign on the media cycle. When Trump seemed like he was backed against the corner, she did nothing but left the beltway pundits talk about it and not seize it for her own opportunity. Absolutely no fire coming out of her campaign.

She's a smart woman and a constant workhorse, but she sucks at the media game.
 

aeolist

Banned
“For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
How did she fuck up? Was she the only person running her campaign? That's what I don't get. Why is she to blame for everything?

Either Clinton was the most qualified person in recent history to be President or she has the inability to control her own campaign.
 
D

Deleted member 231381

Unconfirmed Member
How did she fuck up? Was she the only person running her campaign? That's what I don't get. Why is she to blame for everything?

People were pretty pissed off at Mook when he arranged that speaking tour, too. Let me see if I can find the thread.
 

Liha

Banned
What happend? She was a bad and unpopular candidate who was also under investigation and should have never run.
 

RDreamer

Member
Get out of here with this nonsense. I'm not whitewashing shit. I'm fully aware of how awful Bush was. But I still firmly believe Trump is and will be far worse than Bush. Bush was much more Bipartisan and a lot less of an outright bigot than Trump. If your only Criteria is the amount of lives lost, then yeah Bush wins easily. If you factor in any other criteria then definitely not.

I like that you're trying to narrow it down comically to just one criteria and that criteria is lives lost. Sure, I suppose I might actually care more about the amount of lives lost, especially since that count is absolutely fucking massive, but that's just me... The guy told a mess of lies and completely and utterly fucked a massive section of the world for decades and decades to come based on those lies. The middle east will not be the same for a long while because of Bush. He ignored warnings about Osama bin Laden. He created Guantanamo Bay. The economy utterly fucking crashed on Bush's watch. His administration utterly botched Hurricane Katrina. The NSA powers came from Bush. He ramped up the war on drugs.

He did all that and so much more. But sure, I guess he was "bi-partisan" sometimes.
 

rucury

Banned
You're delusional.

The fact she's a woman is irrational. The fact people keep pushing that her gender is the reason people hate, is in itself sexist.

Stop making this about gender. She fucked up a sure thing.

You are right, but I get the feeling you're talking to fanatics here.

It's really sad to see people in this thread still blind to it all. Fanaticism on both sides. Politics.
 
How did she fuck up? Was she the only person running her campaign? That's what I don't get. Why is she to blame for everything?
What a cop out. She is ultimately responsible for her campaign. She had complete control over her staff. If she chose people poorly that is still her fault.
 
What happened?

You happened. Anybody else would have been a slam dunk against the orange turd. Literally anybody else.

LOL yeah blame her instead of the actual deplorable pieces of shit who voted for trump

your attitude is one of the reasons we partially deserve trump as a country
 

kirblar

Member
horrible horrible campaign. She basically gave Trump free reign on the media cycle. When Trump seemed like he was backed against the corner, she did nothing but left the beltway pundits talk about it and not seize it for her own opportunity. Absolutely no fire coming out of her campaign.

She's a smart woman and a constant workhorse, but she sucks at the media game.
Trump has that on his own since the primaries because CNN and other orgs wouldn't take their eyes off him.
 

ApharmdX

Banned
My point wasn't that Hillary was a perfect, flawless, or even great candidate. And her campaign and campaign management has been proven to have spectacularly dropped the ball. Not in dispute on this.

But there's a certain "atone for your sins and exile yourself to the sea, lady" bitterness whenever Hillary's name surfaces that Al Gore and John Kerry weren't experiencing eight months after their losses, despite both of them being relatively uncharismatic politicians in their own right. People just sort of moved on, forgot about them (to an extent) and looked forward. It's just part of this general inability to get over a shit primary and shit election.

Hillary made a lot of mistakes, her campaign made a lot of mistakes, and I hope she addresses them honestly in this book. But 2016 was a historically weird election for a number of reasons and she has a basic right to talk about it.

And I've said multiple times on this forum that I think Hillary should keep out of involving herself in Democratic party politics going forward for their own mutual benefit, but she doesn't need to hide in a cave until the sun dies out.

Al Gore and John Kerry lost to someone who a) had held political office before and b) was son of the former president, with the entire GOP machine behind him.

Hillary Clinton lost to someone who:

  • had never run for political office of any kind
  • had no public sector experience of any kind
  • was an open xenophobe and obvious sexist
  • spoke at a grade school level
  • was a billionaire tax dodger in a time when the middle class is shrinking and services are being cut
  • had only a part of the Republican Party backing him
  • spent half as much money on his campaign

Her fuckup was worse than Gore's or Kerry's. The fact that she continues to be vilified has far more to do with the colossal scale of her failure than it does with her gender.
 
I like that you're trying to narrow it down comically to just one criteria and that criteria is lives lost. Sure, I suppose I might actually care more about the amount of lives lost, especially since that count is absolutely fucking massive, but that's just me... The guy told a mess of lies and completely and utterly fucked a massive section of the world for decades and decades to come based on those lies. The middle east will not be the same for a long while because of Bush. He ignored warnings about Osama bin Laden. He created Guantanamo Bay. The economy utterly fucking crashed on Bush's watch. His administration utterly botched Hurricane Katrina. The NSA powers came from Bush. He ramped up the war on drugs.

He did all that and so much more. But sure, I guess he was "bi-partisan" sometimes.

You're making an extremely reductive argument. It's like speaking to a child. Just because I think Trump is worse, does not mean that I think Bush was anything other than an Awful president. You trying to state otherwise is just dumb.
 
What a cop out. She is ultimately responsible for her campaign. She had complete control over her staff. If she chose people poorly that is still her fault.

I think people keep twisting my point. I do GET why she is criticized, I DON'T GET why she is hated. There's actually a huge difference in my mind. Apparently for most of you it's the same thing, so I don't even understand the point of arguing... I give up...
 
It could be false. Anything is possible. But I can't come up with a single reason why Hillary is hated. She is one of the most qualified presidential nominees in recent history. Sure her campaign was kinda shit, but she isn't the only one to blame for shitty campaign.

What was not often acknowledged in Trump’s heated race against Democrat Hillary Clinton, however, was how her campaign fueled his rise to power.

An email recently released by the whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks shows how the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party bear direct responsibility for propelling the bigoted billionaire to the White House.

In its self-described “pied piper” strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new “mainstream of the Republican Party” in order to try to increase Clinton’s chances of winning.

The Clinton campaign and Democratic National Committee called for using far-right candidates “as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right.” Clinton’s camp insisted that Trump and other extremists should be “elevated” to “leaders of the pack” and media outlets should be told to “take them seriously.”

http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the...ed-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/

As I was leaving our interview, she smiled, looked me in the eyes and left me with a casual reminder. “As I’ve told people,” she said, “I’m the last thing standing between you and the apocalypse.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/16/magazine/hillary-clinton-campaign-final-weeks.html

*proceeds to run shitty campaign where she doesn't even go into a state that was critical to her path to victory*
 
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