michaelius
Banned
Someone still butthurt about P4 Arena ?
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Sony has researched new tech for suppressing second-hand game sales
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
Someone still butthurt about P4 Arena ?
samus4ever
Banned
If this comes to truth for Sony and MS, I'm out and going PC only. Which would be sad since I've only all major consoles since the NES.
To clarify, upon closer reading the application talks about the 'reproduction entity ID, which is a reproduction device ID or a user ID'. So in the latter case it would be account-tied. I've updated the OP on that.
I only buy used if a game's been out for years (or at least isn't available for new), I tend to value it as keeping the foot in the door for getting a game without depending on something staying in print. Even if they put in the offer to just buy and authorize the system for that key there's the unpleasant angle of having to double dip without extra content to justify that (like buying a used game, then packed in DLC to get MORE of that game), or the possibility of just REFUSING to authorize a new console. Then there's the possibility of taking these servers down or having issues authorizing and thus delaying playing a game...
... There really are some things absolutely not worth fighting, and I hope both of them realize that and just invest in this stuff only to probe their options.
And possibly patent troll for good by denying options to others.
Yes because you can resell your Steam/Origin games...
Books don't cost 50 million to make.
I H8 Memes
Member
If Sony is going to roll out something like this then you know MS is as well. Might as well join us in the PC gaming kingdom. I haven't owned a console since 2004 or so and I haven't missed them one bit.
Could be tied to your account instead
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
I don't know how you can call being worried about anti consumer practices "butthurt". For the record, I have never been interested in that game.
But your moronic response does illustrate my point, so thank you for that.
Wolf Akela
Member
How would "used" be implemented?
I'm imagining that the disc itself has the RF sticker tag. Console will not read discs without the RF tag. I imagine the console will write data to the RF tag to mark it used, or at least write the console's on ID on the tag. Reading the ID from RF tag then storing it to the console makes all consoles the prime target for jailbreaking.
So if the game is treated as used, how is it implement? Time limit? Will developers be required to provide a "used" flag on all games, where content is locked out?
I'm imagining that the disc itself has the RF sticker tag. Console will not read discs without the RF tag. I imagine the console will write data to the RF tag to mark it used, or at least write the console's on ID on the tag. Reading the ID from RF tag then storing it to the console makes all consoles the prime target for jailbreaking.
So if the game is treated as used, how is it implement? Time limit? Will developers be required to provide a "used" flag on all games, where content is locked out?
Fox Mulder
Member
I'll never buy a console that does this. I'd rather buy digital games at decent prices than never been allowed to buy used games.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
But that could mean that you need an internet connection in order to play your game right?
abstract alien
Member
They would if they could. It's a potential sale they are losing while their product is still being fully enjoyed, so I'm sure it would happen in a heartbeat if it were feasible for them to do so.
samus4ever
Banned
Wolf Akela
Member
Could be tied to your console's ID.
The problem is that consoles keep on taking the negatives of gaming on PCs.
Yeah but if SONY/MS would do this they could get more money out of it, plus making sure the customer will come back to THEIR platform if they offer PSN/XBL credit.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
So the problem is, what if the console breaks down?
Per my last post, the ID sent from the machine is referred to as either a machine ID or user ID. So that would mean account-tied in the latter case.
When you create an account on a machine, on a system level, you don't necessarily have to connect to PSN. A globally unique user ID can be made on the system locally without a network connection (which can be latterly tied to a PSN account if you go online)...so no, a network connection still wouldn't be needed at all.
hmmm.. hope they are just researching..
- Console dies (this happened alot this generation, so it certainly also will next generation). You have to contact the console maker to transfer your tag to a new console. No way that will work.. try calling sony to make them transfer SingStar songs.. takes forever..
- It will not be possible to return a game to a store anymore, because it might be tied to a console. But lots of countries have laws that makes it possible for a buyer to return his purchases within a certain time limit. So they would have to change laws all around the world to prevent this.
- You can´t even have two of the same console in your house anymore, or you can but you won´t be able to play the same game on both of them, without buying two copies.
and more.. it just seems like such a bad situation for the customer/buyer that I really don´t see any console maker doing this ...
- Console dies (this happened alot this generation, so it certainly also will next generation). You have to contact the console maker to transfer your tag to a new console. No way that will work.. try calling sony to make them transfer SingStar songs.. takes forever..
- It will not be possible to return a game to a store anymore, because it might be tied to a console. But lots of countries have laws that makes it possible for a buyer to return his purchases within a certain time limit. So they would have to change laws all around the world to prevent this.
- You can´t even have two of the same console in your house anymore, or you can but you won´t be able to play the same game on both of them, without buying two copies.
and more.. it just seems like such a bad situation for the customer/buyer that I really don´t see any console maker doing this ...
I H8 Memes
Member
Or they do some kind of account/license migration thing like the 360 transfer tool process. Presumably the RFID would be stamped with the serial number or some unique hardware number or a PSN account name if the system is online - so migrating to a new console would address this.
Of course, if it doesn't then it is a bad move, and terribly anti-consumer.
Wolf Akela
Member
Some kind of system transfer between consoles I imagine. You transfer your old console's ID to your new console.
It's simply not true games are always 100% BC on PC.
Games are cheaper but tied to your Steam account, in theory you could sell your PS4/Nextbox with all your games when you're done with it and make some money back. You cannot ever sell your Steam games.
Movies have many revenue streams. First in cinemas, then dvd/br, then tv...
It's already like that in the EU for software so no biggie.
Unless you think you can resell your copy of Windows that you bought on DVD.
darkistheway
Member
The only way I could see an anti-used game strategy happening is if the big publishers wanted it. And they would have to be retarded to want it.
Used games expand the market. Ever wonder why sequels sometimes sell more? It's because people picked the original game up cheap, liked it and are, statistically, more likely to purchase the sequel.
It would also severely damage the retailers who rely on the increased profit margins on used games. This also helps the new game market. Why? Because the stores get to stay in business!
I do seriously question Sony even patenting an approach like this. It really makes you wonder about the thinking that goes on.
Used games expand the market. Ever wonder why sequels sometimes sell more? It's because people picked the original game up cheap, liked it and are, statistically, more likely to purchase the sequel.
It would also severely damage the retailers who rely on the increased profit margins on used games. This also helps the new game market. Why? Because the stores get to stay in business!
I do seriously question Sony even patenting an approach like this. It really makes you wonder about the thinking that goes on.
Any implementation would probably tie to your account here also. As I've been trying to say, the patent talks about linking the game to a user ID or a machine ID. It doesn't really matter from the technology's point of view.
In that case your games would be similarly tied to you forever ala Steam, unless you find a way to sell your account...
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
It's like Sony is doing everything in their power to make everyone hates them.
StevePharma
Member
Just like you can do now on the Sony Entertainment Network webpage. Activate and deactivate consoles. Microsoft probably has something similar.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I will not buy a system that employs this technology to suppress used games.
I suspect it will offer you the chance to let the game play for a fee of $10 or so and I also suspect people are going to be okay with that.
Not me, though.
I suspect it will offer you the chance to let the game play for a fee of $10 or so and I also suspect people are going to be okay with that.
Not me, though.
Which is further enforcing his point. PCs can get away with it because sales are guaranteed. Look at PSN's digital offerings. While they've improved with PS+, they're still nothing special. Take something like Sleeping Dogs, I'll tell you the cheapest it's been on Steam, and you tell me the cheapest it's been on PSN digitally, and we'll see who wins.
I also doubt Gamestop will go anywhere. Someone's got to sell those consoles, and the whole Amazon US/Nintendo debacle should put Sony and MS on notice. At least with Gamestop, they can barter and say 'This is ALL you sell, so you have to do this'
Damn you're right
A clear lose/lose for customers.
I don't think Gamestop is needed. Supermarkets would be happy to sell consoles and they already do.
outunderthestars
Banned
I was wondering if gamestop could develop a device that simply resets the RFID tag to "new" status.
Why...?
Callibretto
Member
the optimist in me hope that when a game disc is identified with the console, it will also link the game to my psn account, so I can get the game digitally.
so if I broke my ps3 hardware, I can simply get a new ps3, link my psn account to the new hardware and the game will be ready for download or used with my game disc.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
Another disgusting anti-consumer move by Sony if this becomes reality.
Although the last time they were so aggressive with DRM it bit them in the ass.
They should concentrate their time and resources making products and software that have broad appeal rather than screwing over their dwindling customer base with underhand tactics like this.
I don't buy used games anyway but if this is included in the PS4 then I will never purchase one as a matter of principle.
Although the last time they were so aggressive with DRM it bit them in the ass.
They should concentrate their time and resources making products and software that have broad appeal rather than screwing over their dwindling customer base with underhand tactics like this.
I don't buy used games anyway but if this is included in the PS4 then I will never purchase one as a matter of principle.
If the RFID standard they use is ever reverse engineered I don't see why not. It's going to have to allow 2 way communication of information so Sony better hope their implementation is ironclad.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
Now that would be something.
Damn you're right
A clear lose/lose for customers.
I don't think Gamestop is needed. Supermarkets would be happy to sell consoles and they already do.
The marketing for video games at Wal-Mart and Target is lackluster at best. Gamestop is pretty much the only physical space where you can see stuff other than HUGE games getting any kind of attention. Given how much money goes into advertising campaigns today, they would lose that completely.
There is indeed reference to alternative embodiments including limited-time play for a used copy. I was skimming, so I'm not sure if there was reference to an unlock fee, but it would also be an obvious alternative too.
The thing I question from a feasibility point of view is the cost of this. How much would it add to the cost of a game copy? Although I guess pubs might be perfectly happy to use it, up to a point, if it meant the game couldn't be sold on.
There's also the possibility that if implemented, the system would be an option for publishers, and not universal. So it would vary from game to game, pub to pub, whether a game could be used second hand or not. Maybe pubs are demanding something like this but Sony would leave the decision to them to try and deflect the PR headache. But ultimately it is Sony's platform to control...