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Newk86
Member
(Yesterday, 04:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by sephiroth7x

Sorry not to answer so soon, work and life don't permit as much as one would like.

I am not denying that all the points you are stating are relevant in considering a game of the year. And yes, fair play to Horizon for delivering on a lot of what it does. Yes, its graphics/performance is fantastic. Yes its enemy design is also exceptional. And yes, its open world structure is quite good... even if not the greatest.

But for example - The Order 1886 - exceptionally good looking game for its time. Good writing (story was a bit shallow in the end but still), some exceptional sound design, never dropped its framerate at any point, great voice acting.

But was it a good game? No, not really. It was average at best. Horizon is a great game. And yes, to some people may be the GotY. And if it wins... hats off to it.

But if you stripped Horizon back to its core elements, it is just another open world game with a good and well thought out story and that's it. Its ideas and mechanics aren't anything new even if its story and world are. The beauty of BotW is in its subtleties.

Doesn't it strike you as strange that BotW, without its state of the art graphics, no real story, awkward flaws and as you put it, link pulling a paraglider out of his arse, is in the top five games of the year? Do you not understand why it is there?

Nintendo are not about graphics. Nor do they really care about story. They care about their games. And I say this as a Sony man who, don't get me wrong, I love Nintendo and buy their consoles, but their games aren't about realism. Christ... why should there be an explanation why he pulls a paraglider out of nowhere? What does it matter? Does it matter that Clouds sword disappears in FFVII when it isn't in a fight? Does it matter that your character in Fallout is very obviously not carrying around one hundred plates from the last house you ransacked? George Stobbart emptied his pockets in Broken Sword and had a sewer key just tucked away! And Nintendo do not get a free pass with this, its not like people ignore a lack of story (How many times has Peach been kidnapped?) but its not about that... and it never will be...

There is a beautiful sense of whimsy that you get from BotW which I, along with many others it seems, have enjoyed. All your points are valid about Horizon, and I won't ever dissuade anyone from playing or enjoying it. As a technical achievement it is ground breaking and the story and idea is great. It deserves its nominations. But when it boils down to pure gameplay... the feel of the game, how it makes you feel... the enjoyment of the game... I lean more towards BotW... not because it doesn't have voice acting or cinema quality writing... but because its a good game.

Now I admire the strength of your conviction and it is partly the reason why I have answered after so long. I do believe in this case, we play games for very different reasons. Please do not take offense when I say I believe you look at games from a technical viewpoint. Their graphics/sound/script etc. and while these are important in 'certain' games, (certain games being Uncharted/Broken Sword type games) they aren't deal breakers to me. When I boot up Resogun, I am not playing it for the in depth story about a world gone to hell... I play it because I enjoy it... maybe its an age thing? I have played games from the C64 through to now and its a relatively new thing (PS2 onwards?) that story/world building have been a dominant force in the industry... perhaps this is why I lean more indie/retro these days... I enjoy games that are fun even when they are hard (Cuphead for example). So... I am going to stop rambling now...

I'm intrigued about what these subtleties and intangibles are in BOTW that make it so revolutionary. It just sounds a bit hyperbolic to me, like as if the divide between the two could be so great. When you say that if you strip everything back, Horizon is nothing but BOTW is amazing when you consider everything, that's what makes it hard for me as somebody who hasn't played the game to really get an idea of where you're coming from.

To put it another way, doesn't it just come down to you preferring the gameplay of one over the other? Like as if somebody playing Horizon couldn't stop every now and then and watch the wildlife - towering, mechanical beats - interacting with the environment, or just be amazed at the snow effects, or day becoming night in the jungle area and with the crocodiles around, or - possibly most of all - just slowing your character to a walk for a whole 2-3 minutes after surviving an epically difficult battle with several of said beasts in one of said environments, and just taking it all in? I've done all of that too.

Personally I don't even rate Horizon as up there with the GOAT (it's close after expansion), but that's just my take on things as somebody trying to understand the incredible amount of praise that BOTW seems to receive in abundance. From the outside looking in, BOTW seems almost like a similar game to Horizon just with more focus on different areas. Exploration over story, whimsy as you call it over sci-fi. But is that not just a matter of personal preference? Like, it's an open world with great attention to detail and a weapon durability mechanic from what I can tell. I don't know if that's revolutionary though. Maybe for the Zelda series it is, but to me hardly cause for some of the borderline pretentious comments or outright dismissal that certain other games seem to cop for having the audacity to be compared to it.

Probably one of those, you haven't played it so you wouldn't understand things, but that's usually the case I find. Backlogs are difficult!
cuate
Member
(Yesterday, 04:51 AM)

Originally Posted by Newk86

I'm intrigued about what these subtleties and intangibles are in BOTW that make it so revolutionary. It just sounds a bit hyperbolic to me, like as if the divide between the two could be so great. When you say that if you strip everything back, Horizon is nothing but BOTW is amazing when you consider everything, that's what makes it hard for me as somebody who hasn't played the game to really get an idea of where you're coming from.

To put it another way, doesn't it just come down to you preferring the gameplay of one over the other? Like as if somebody playing Horizon couldn't stop every now and then and watch the wildlife - towering, mechanical beats - interacting with the environment, or just be amazed at the snow effects, or day becoming night in the jungle area and with the crocodiles around, or - possibly most of all - just slowing your character to a walk for a whole 2-3 minutes after surviving an epically difficult battle with several of said beasts in one of said environments, and just taking it all in? I've done all of that too.

Personally I don't even rate Horizon as up there with the GOAT (it's close after expansion), but that's just my take on things as somebody trying to understand the incredible amount of praise that BOTW seems to receive in abundance. From the outside looking in, BOTW seems almost like a similar game to Horizon just with more focus on different areas. Exploration over story, whimsy as you call it over sci-fi. But is that not just a matter of personal preference? Like, it's an open world with great attention to detail and a weapon durability mechanic from what I can tell. I don't know if that's revolutionary though. Maybe for the Zelda series it is, but to me hardly cause for some of the borderline pretentious comments or outright dismissal that certain other games seem to cop for having the audacity to be compared to it.

Probably one of those, you haven't played it so you wouldn't understand things, but that's usually the case I find. Backlogs are difficult!

Stop being disingenous. The amount of things botw does with its physics system alone trumps any other open world game in existence. It opens up a lot of gameplay opportunities and interaction never seen in an open world game before. That's not an exaggeration. It's clear you haven't played it or researched it, just seem bothered by the (well earned) praise. It's not one of the most critically acclaimed games ever for nothing.

Nintendo is a far more accomplished developer than freaking guerrilla games. That's not fanboy drivel. It's reality.
Martinski43
Member
(Yesterday, 05:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Newk86

I'm intrigued about what these subtleties and intangibles are in BOTW that make it so revolutionary. It just sounds a bit hyperbolic to me, like as if the divide between the two could be so great. When you say that if you strip everything back, Horizon is nothing but BOTW is amazing when you consider everything, that's what makes it hard for me as somebody who hasn't played the game to really get an idea of where you're coming from.

To put it another way, doesn't it just come down to you preferring the gameplay of one over the other? Like as if somebody playing Horizon couldn't stop every now and then and watch the wildlife - towering, mechanical beats - interacting with the environment, or just be amazed at the snow effects, or day becoming night in the jungle area and with the crocodiles around, or - possibly most of all - just slowing your character to a walk for a whole 2-3 minutes after surviving an epically difficult battle with several of said beasts in one of said environments, and just taking it all in? I've done all of that too.

There are too many things that break the immersion for me in Horizon such as the piss poor Ai, the wooden npcís with horrible voice acting and so on. The pretty looking environment just comes of as set dressing in the end.

The bow and arrow combat ainít fun when you canít sneak around and headshot enemies from afar. Some human enemies are just bullet sponges for no reason.
Newk86
Member
(Yesterday, 05:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by cuate

Stop being disingenous. The amount of things botw does with its physics system alone trumps any other open world game in existence. It opens up a lot of gameplay opportunities and interaction never seen in an open world game before. That's not an exaggeration. It's clear you haven't played it or researched it, just seem bothered by the (well earned) praise. It's not one of the most critically acclaimed games ever for nothing.

Nintendo is a far more accomplished developer than freaking guerrilla games. That's not fanboy drivel. It's reality.

Well being disingenous and not having researched the game are two different things I think, and actually it's the second one. I mentioned multiple times that I haven't played the game, that was pretty much the point of my whole comment if you read it all. Just some genuine interest in what makes BOTW so great, not having played it. Didn't mean to cause a fight and it sounds like having best the gameplay-based physics in existence, and Nintendo being a very accomplished developer are the reasons. Thanks.
cuate
Member
(Yesterday, 05:21 AM)

Originally Posted by Newk86

Well being disingenous and not having researched the game are two different things I think, and actually it's the second one. I mentioned multiple times that I haven't played the game, that was pretty much the point of my whole comment if you read it all. Just some genuine interest in what makes BOTW so great, not having played it. Didn't mean to cause a fight and it sounds like the having best the gameplay-based physics in existence, and Nintendo being a very accomplished developer are the reasons. Thanks.

Are you trying to be smarmy?
Martinski43
Member
(Yesterday, 05:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Newk86

Well being disingenous and not having researched the game are two different things I think, and actually it's the second one. I mentioned multiple times that I haven't played the game, that was pretty much the point of my whole comment if you read it all. Just some genuine interest in what makes BOTW so great, not having played it. Didn't mean to cause a fight and it sounds like the having best the gameplay-based physics in existence, and Nintendo being a very accomplished developer are the reasons. Thanks.

I have played both games pretty much back to back, after I finished the last boss in Zelda i played Horizon. Which of i platinumed, why not? Itís not very long and itís just some collectibles, one of the platinum trophies that takes the least effort.

Maybe put about 30 hrs tops into Horizon. Botw I have come back to again and again to discover new things, to develop a new village, to explore weird areas with mazes and so on. Getting stuck on an island where you canít use any of your gear (canít recall the name) but itís pretty much survival mode. Have easily put in 100+ hrs into Botw. Have done about 80% or so of shrines and 1% of Korok seeds.

Botw is a far superior game that is much more fun and immersive. Horizon is a pretty looking Far Cry game ( far cry 3 has much much better Ai though) with a decent story.
STILLethal
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(Yesterday, 05:30 AM)
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Horizon is the best game Ive played the last 5 years
ubiblu
Member
(Yesterday, 05:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by STILLethal

Horizon is the best game Ive played the last 5 years

You should seriously play more games. It's definitely great, but does nothing new or exciting and is severely limiting for an open-world game. Unless graphics are now the sole criteria for GOTY, and even then that's quite subjective.
Dargor
Member
(Yesterday, 05:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by ubiblu

You should seriously play more games. It's definitely great, but does nothing new or exciting and is severely limiting for an open-world game. Unless graphics are now the sole criteria for GOTY, and even then that's quite subjective.

Opinions, how do they work...
Martinski43
Member
(Yesterday, 05:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by STILLethal

Horizon is the best game Ive played the last 5 years

And Horizon wouldnít make a top 20 list of the best games of the last 5 years for me. How different everything is. :D
Liliana Eileen
Member
(Yesterday, 07:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by STILLethal

Horizon is the best game Ive played the last 5 years

While I wholeheartedly respect your opinion, you really should play more games!
cartman414
Member
(Yesterday, 07:48 AM)

Originally Posted by kylekey

And there's zero reason to explore BotW's PS3 graphics world if you're interested in a good story, developed characters, or expecting to hear people talk in a 2017 game, so that's a wash. All of those physics (the climbing animation is terrible and it makes no sense how you can climb sheer vertical surfaces with no handholds, btw) and no reason to care what happens because the enemies are bland, the weapons brittle, the characters silent, and the story cliched.

You prefer trinkets, tissue paper weapons, and physics, I prefer story, characters, voice acting and graphics. Because after working 45 hours a week, the last thing I want to do is feel like I'm wasting my life inchworming a boring protagonist up mountains to roll boulders at generic skeletons so that I can get another sword made from sawdust on my way to the least interesting antagonist in gaming history; I can talk to my wife about a good story--she wouldn't care less about being able to cut grass.

You care more about story even in an action game? Go watch a movie or read a book.
sephiroth7x
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(Yesterday, 07:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Newk86

When you say that if you strip everything back, Horizon is nothing but BOTW is amazing when you consider everything, that's what makes it hard for me as somebody who hasn't played the game to really get an idea of where you're coming from.

Probably one of those, you haven't played it so you wouldn't understand things, but that's usually the case I find. Backlogs are difficult!

I do believe it is one of those games that you need to play it to understand it. It may never click with you either which is kind of what I was getting at with the other person I was talking to about it. Some people play games for their technicality, others for the actual gameplay, feel, the emotion it stirs, not through writing (I could watch a movie or book if that was the core experience I sought) but through gameplay.

It is hard to explain why BotW is so good. (Trust me though, there are issues there). If I was trying to sell you it, I think it would be about its soul, about its heart. About how its small intricate little details that Nintendo are so famous for work in abundance in this game. It doesn't need swanky graphics that will age with the generations. It will remain playable for a long time and not feel old... it really is hard to describe.

My best advice to you is really to try and play it. Walk in with an open mind and play the game based on its own merits. There is so much to love. I wont deny it has issues (its 'dungeons' aren't the best but that is in comparison to the rest of the series) and it won't be realistically handled and have a riveting story... but it will feel alive and hopefully, give you a feeling of satisfaction even for those little things...

EDIT: Just to say, I don't believe I used the word revolutionary with regards BotW. As a game it isn't. As a marker in the greater Zelda series, it would be regarded as a revolution as its such a shift from previous entries.
Mooreberg
Member
(Yesterday, 08:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gitaroo

If shadow of mordor can win, anything can.

Originally Posted by Martinski43

2014 was truly a poor year of gaming.

It is simultaneously hilarious and sad that the follow up to every "big" 2014 game has either sold way less, or been mentioned a whole hell of a lot less (as in close to zero) for GOTY, regardless of it being last year or this year. I wish The Talos Principle had come out earlier in the year and on more platforms. The media was really fixated on mediocre shit that year.
Triteon
Member
(Yesterday, 08:28 AM)
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One of the few years ive played all of the contenders.

Personally while i liked Persona and Horizon i dont think they are top 5 material.

Also while i appreciate the craft in Mario its only cemented in my mind my apparent dislike of 3d platforming. So thats out.

Which leaves PUBG and Zelda. There are pros and cons to both, there are aspects i dont like about both. The knee jerk reaction is to say PUBG, because of how unexpected my enjoyment was. But its really not all there yet.

So out of those five its Zelda, probably.

Personally though? Warhammer 2 or divinity.
NihoB
Junior Member
(Yesterday, 09:21 AM)
DrDisRespect opinion on PUBG and GOTY:

https://clips.twitch.tv/WittyHumbleOxStoneLightning
Kid Ying
Member
(Yesterday, 09:24 AM)
I Hope that Zelda wins. I dont feel the game is all that, but it would be cool to see the wiiu going out with an award like that in it's last year.
Newk86
Member
(Yesterday, 09:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by sephiroth7x

I do believe it is one of those games that you need to play it to understand it. It may never click with you either which is kind of what I was getting at with the other person I was talking to about it. Some people play games for their technicality, others for the actual gameplay, feel, the emotion it stirs, not through writing (I could watch a movie or book if that was the core experience I sought) but through gameplay.

It is hard to explain why BotW is so good. (Trust me though, there are issues there). If I was trying to sell you it, I think it would be about its soul, about its heart. About how its small intricate little details that Nintendo are so famous for work in abundance in this game. It doesn't need swanky graphics that will age with the generations. It will remain playable for a long time and not feel old... it really is hard to describe.

My best advice to you is really to try and play it. Walk in with an open mind and play the game based on its own merits. There is so much to love. I wont deny it has issues (its 'dungeons' aren't the best but that is in comparison to the rest of the series) and it won't be realistically handled and have a riveting story... but it will feel alive and hopefully, give you a feeling of satisfaction even for those little things...

EDIT: Just to say, I don't believe I used the word revolutionary with regards BotW. As a game it isn't. As a marker in the greater Zelda series, it would be regarded as a revolution as its such a shift from previous entries.

Thanks, yeah, I was assuming it would be like that, just have to play it. As far as revolutionary that was more directed at the couple of drive-by posts on the previous few pages. Was after a bit more of an impression but possibly the wrong thread for it. I try to stay informed about most games (while avoiding spoilers), only maybe a bit less so for games on systems that I don't own currently.
TLZ
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(Yesterday, 09:59 PM)
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What's wrong with shadow of mordor?
Kid Ying
Member
(Yesterday, 10:03 PM)

Originally Posted by TLZ

What's wrong with shadow of mordor?

Great game, but nothing that screams goty material to lots of people.

I think bayonetta 2 deserved better that year... But It was a weak year for sure.
McGruber21
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(Today, 02:06 AM)
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I really hope Zelda or Mario win it.
jbluzb
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(Today, 02:11 AM)
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Glad Persona 5 got the recognition it deserves :)
Jigga
Junior Member
(Today, 02:14 AM)
Horizon GOTY
Martinski43
Member
(Today, 03:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by TLZ

What's wrong with shadow of mordor?

Itís a good game and much better overall than itís sequel but itís not an amazing game and wouldnít even be considered in the GOTY race in any other year really. I donít even know what game from 2014 was my favourite, Stick of Truth or Dark Souls 2 maybe??

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