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MC_Hify
Member
(11-20-2014, 09:08 AM)
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Pizza My Heart
H.Protagonist
XSEED
(11-20-2014, 09:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by MC_Hify

Pizza My Heart

Salacious Pie of the Soul
360pages
Member
(11-20-2014, 03:45 PM)
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I think it's alright to write a cliche once in awhile. Especially if it's you first book or story you want something with a little more focus to see what works and doesn't work.
AngmarsKing701
Member
(11-20-2014, 05:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by 360pages

I think it's alright to write a cliche once in awhile. Especially if it's you first book or story you want something with a little more focus to see what works and doesn't work.

Surely you jest.

Don't call me Shirley.
Collete
Member
(11-20-2014, 06:06 PM)
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Do you guys ever have the thoughts that maybe you shouldn't be a writer?

I'm asking cause, as I write my novel for NanoWriMo (and my dream is to become a writer) and I look back at my work and really think, "Will anyone actually care about this?"
I know I should technically write for myself, but I like to share what I create with others, so naturally I want people to actually notice my work. Though, as I reread what I written, I can't feel like someone would want to care about this. Then the thoughts of self doubt creep to make me think I was not meant for this at all. That I'm nothing more than a shadow of what a writer should be.

I think I'm just rambling, but just I'm just genuinely asking.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
(11-20-2014, 06:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Collete

Do you guys ever have the thoughts that maybe you shouldn't be a writer?

Every day of my life. I just push it to the back of my head and hope for the best.
Mike M
Nick N
(11-20-2014, 06:28 PM)
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I seem to get constant encouragement that I could be good enough to publish if I just "did a little more" (though what that entails remains nebulously defined). Only in the past few months have I actually allowed myself to believe it and start sending stuff out for submission. Nothing but one rejection and no responses thus far, but I'm making a go of it at least (well, things are on pause for NaNo, obviously). I have a modestly popular website that I'm in the process of revamping for use as my own platform, but I feel really self conscious about the possibility of having my stuff out there for public consumption by the internet at large.
Daft Fear
Junior Member
(11-20-2014, 06:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Collete

Do you guys ever have the thoughts that maybe you shouldn't be a writer?

I'm asking cause, as I write my novel for NanoWriMo (and my dream is to become a writer) and I look back at my work and really think, "Will anyone actually care about this?"
I know I should technically write for myself, but I like to share what I create with others, so naturally I want people to actually notice my work. Though, as I reread what I written, I can't feel like someone would want to care about this. Then the thoughts of self doubt creep to make me think I was not meant for this at all. That I'm nothing more than a shadow of what a writer should be.

I think I'm just rambling, but just I'm just genuinely asking.

I get that feeling all the time. I think most writers do, even the wildly successful ones. Self-doubt is an unfortunate part of any creative field. It's also a sign that you want to do better, to push yourself. If you're in the middle of the writing process, don't listen to those self-doubts. Just don't. Keep writing and writing until you're done.

Once you've finished the story (manuscript, play, whatever), then take a moment to think about what it is you're doubting. Is it just that you don't think you're a good enough writer to tell the story you've told? Because that's never true.

If you doubt that your character is likeable/relatable/interesting enough, examine why. The editing process is where sometimes your insecurities can help you improve.

Overall, though, don't give in to the feeling of 'not being good enough.' It's bullshit. You ARE good enough. And every time you write, you get better.

Originally Posted by Mike M

I seem to get constant encouragement that I could be good enough to publish if I just "did a little more" (though what that entails remains nebulously defined). Only in the past few months have I actually allowed myself to believe it and start sending stuff out for submission. Nothing but one rejection and no responses thus far, but I'm making a go of it at least (well, things are on pause for NaNo, obviously). I have a modestly popular website that I'm in the process of revamping for use as my own platform, but I feel really self conscious about the possibility of having my stuff out there for public consumption by the internet at large.

I'm at the querying point too. It's awful. All the waiting….

And as for the concerns about putting your original work on the internet for public consumption… I get that feeling too. I've started to put stuff on my blog (recently started) that is original but not directly connected to my novel, but I don't know if that's the right direction. I'm considering putting up bits and pieces (like character bios, or short scenes that aren't in the book itself), but it scares me a bit.
Soulfire
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(11-20-2014, 06:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Daft Fear

I get that feeling all the time. I think most writers do, even the wildly successful ones. Self-doubt is an unfortunate part of any creative field. It's also a sign that you want to do better, to push yourself. If you're in the middle of the writing process, don't listen to those self-doubts. Just don't. Keep writing and writing until you're done.

Once you've finished the story (manuscript, play, whatever), then take a moment to think about what it is you're doubting. Is it just that you don't think you're a good enough writer to tell the story you've told? Because that's never true.

If you doubt that your character is likeable/relatable/interesting enough, examine why. The editing process is where sometimes your insecurities can help you improve.

Overall, though, don't give in to the feeling of 'not being good enough.' It's bullshit. You ARE good enough. And every time you write, you get better.

This. Completely agree with this. I go through periods of self-doubt all the time. Sometimes the only thing that gets me through is the decision to just write for myself and forget about the outside world.

I can't forget about the outside world today, though, because I'm running my first promo. I just used a Fiverr promo with bknights, but I've already gotten over 50 downloads with the first episode in my series. I'm doing a very bad job of not hitting the refresh button.

Writing related, since this is the Writing-GAF thread, I'm almost done with a short 5k EROM and planning on writing a couple more. Trying to get on the Kindle Unlimited bandwagon. In my spare time (cause there's so much of it) I started writing an over the top action/adventure short. The lead character is going to be a mix of Black Dynamite and James Bond. Kind of enjoy writing something so violent and cheesy.
theWB27
Member
(11-21-2014, 12:37 AM)
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Even though I dropped Nano, because reasons, I'm getting the urge to ramp it back up. Also...my idea about writing scripts as a book has apparently been done with already produced scripts and they've sold a tiny bit.

I've only been doing this for about 3 years, but I immediately let people read my stuff..even after my first scripts first draft. Oddly....I feel a little more satisfied when my work is ripped apart rather than praised. It lets me know what I need to improve upon.

Going on triggerstreet helped immensely for that, while also being able to read other people's work.
360pages
Member
(11-21-2014, 12:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by AngmarsKing701

Surely you jest.

Don't call me Shirley.

Nope, writing a cliche right can be just as good as making a huge new twist on something. Both are really good and I'm not saying one is better than the other. But I think a strong basic plot can be fine.

Even something as simple as save the princess can be awesome if you have fun characters and interesting locations and set-pieces.
Ashes
Member
(11-21-2014, 02:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by Collete

Do you guys ever have the thoughts that maybe you shouldn't be a writer?

I do.

Sometimes I will see a person's work, and think there can be no future for you in this business. Unless you are lucky and strike gold with a phenomenal idea that catches like fire.

I've been proven wrong so many times, I have, truth be told, been battered into submission.
I've seen first hand how an author's writing changes. Improves. Drastically.

That's not to say, all writers can hit it out the park. But you can help yourself. Really. Truly.

Some authors fail by resting on their laurels. When they've won, they plateau. They can't seem to write well again till they forget their satisfied state. These writers need to be hungry.

Some writers do well, when they're given critical feedback. They've taught themselves, that it is within them to prove people wrong and/or themselves wrong. And improve. And come back, bigger, stronger, better.

Whether the key to good writing is staying hungry, or developing grit, I don't fully know.
These are just some of the things I've learnt by being wrong about people.

As to my self, I fluctuate between giving up, and keeping going. When I look at the data I've accumulated over the number of years that I've been writing, at least from the point of my taking this craft seriously, I can't help but feel that I'm just wrong about it all.

And yet, I'm still writing. I think I get why they say you gotta really like like what you've chosen to do. because for some weird reason, for some inexplicable illogical reason, you can, and yes I'm stealing this from someone else, run on empty.
Last edited by Ashes; 11-21-2014 at 02:18 AM.
MC Safety
Member
(11-21-2014, 02:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Collete

Do you guys ever have the thoughts that maybe you shouldn't be a writer?

I'm asking cause, as I write my novel for NanoWriMo (and my dream is to become a writer) and I look back at my work and really think, "Will anyone actually care about this?"
I know I should technically write for myself.

If you want to be a professional writer, you should write with the intent to sell everything you produce.

Write with an eye for an audience, and don't accept the notion you have to give your work away for free to be noticed. Plenty of people will sell you on the notion, but only because they actively dislike paying for other people's labor.

If you fight to get paid for every story you write (regardless of whether it's fiction or a news report on a bake sale), you won't ever wonder if you should be a writer.
Nappuccino
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(11-21-2014, 02:16 AM)
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I write because I like to write, and I want to write what I want to read.

I hope there are enough people out there that share my mindset . . . but on top of that, you should give your readers a reason to invest in your writing. Get them to care about the characters, and they'll care about your writing :)
Mike M
Nick N
(11-21-2014, 02:37 AM)
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I'm really only interested in writing what I'd want to read, so "writing to an audience" rings hollow for me. If I *find* an audience with what I produce, that's great, but the second I need to change it up to appeal to someone who's not me is the second it ceases being enjoyable.

If that means I'll never be a professional writer, so be it. I already have a career and wouldn't want to trade it in for nothing more than a different kind of drudgery.
H.Protagonist
XSEED
(11-21-2014, 02:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mike M

I'm really only interested in writing what I'd want to read, so "writing to an audience" rings hollow for me. If I *find* an audience with what I produce, that's great, but the second I need to change it up to appeal to someone who's not me is the second it ceases being enjoyable.

If that means I'll never be a professional writer, so be it. I already have a career and wouldn't want to trade it in for nothing more than a different kind of drudgery.

You can still manage both to some degree, though, I think. Write what you find interesting, but also be aware of what works for the audience of that subject. I don't think it's compromising your ideals to lay groundwork to give your book the best chance of success. Ultimately, what many want (not sure if this is the case for you, though) is for people to share in what they're trying to create. And if you can increase those readers by acknowledging some things that work, then I don't think it's bad to incorporate or tailor some particulars into your story/presentation.
360pages
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(11-21-2014, 02:51 AM)
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Yeah, it might sound strange. But rarely does giving one person absolute creative freedom on any project without some kind of feedback or groundwork do well. That's why editors exist after all.

To help us see things that work well for the market or story and cut unneeded fluff.
360pages
Member
(11-21-2014, 02:57 AM)
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Oh, here's a fun little tool for you guys

iwl.me

Nothing too big, just something interesting.
Mike M
Nick N
(11-21-2014, 03:00 AM)
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I'm not saying that there's no place for outside feedback and editing, that would be a pretty stupid sentiment to have. Anyone who frequents the creative writing challenge threads knows I have an insatiable thirst for feedback, but I've always viewed it as soliciting advice on how to improve period, not how to appeal to specific people.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't have any interest in writing for an audience that I would not consider myself a part of. So while that suggestion earlier about churning out the books for the Kindle lending service is great for erotica, for instance, I have no interest in writing erotica (And would be comically bad at it) and would just find it a chore to do.

Man I am incoherent tonight, I wouldn't blame anyone who couldn't parse a lick of that.
cosmicblizzard
Banned
(11-21-2014, 03:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mike M

I'm not saying that there's no place for outside feedback and editing, that would be a pretty stupid sentiment to have. Anyone who frequents the creative writing challenge threads knows I have an insatiable thirst for feedback, but I've always viewed it as soliciting advice on how to improve period, not how to appeal to specific people.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't have any interest in writing for an audience that I would not consider myself a part of. So while that suggestion earlier about churning out the books for the Kindle lending service is great for erotica, for instance, I have no interest in writing erotica (And would be comically bad at it) and would just find it a chore to do.

Man I am incoherent tonight, I wouldn't blame anyone who couldn't parse a lick of that.

There's nothing incoherent about what you're saying. First and foremost, I'll always want to write something I find interesting. Maybe that's a narcissistic mindset, but it's hardly a rare one among both accomplished and unknown authors. The best we can hope for is our tastes at least partially align with a potential audience.

Really, I doubt I even could write in genres I don't care for. I'd sure as hell try if I knew for certain it would be a hit (thus allowing me to write what I do want without worrying about livelihood) but even then, it probably wouldn't be too good and I'd just add elements from the stuff I do like. Don't think that would go over well depending on the genre. Like if I was given a million dollars and told to write erotica, it would probably somehow turn into a zombie story without me realizing (though maybe there's an audience for zombie erotica, idk).
H.Protagonist
XSEED
(11-21-2014, 04:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mike M

I'm not saying that there's no place for outside feedback and editing, that would be a pretty stupid sentiment to have. Anyone who frequents the creative writing challenge threads knows I have an insatiable thirst for feedback, but I've always viewed it as soliciting advice on how to improve period, not how to appeal to specific people.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I don't have any interest in writing for an audience that I would not consider myself a part of. So while that suggestion earlier about churning out the books for the Kindle lending service is great for erotica, for instance, I have no interest in writing erotica (And would be comically bad at it) and would just find it a chore to do.

Man I am incoherent tonight, I wouldn't blame anyone who couldn't parse a lick of that.

Oh, I wasn't referring to something like the erotica thing. That's definitely kind of in the extreme for doing whatever it takes to make a living off of writing if writing it wasn't your thing to begin with. It just sounded more like you refused to adjust your work at all out of desire not to compromise anything. It initially seemed like that included all the non-grammar/typo editing stuff (adjusting chapter length, paring back descriptions, changing/cutting story bits, etc.), so that's why my response mentioned those things.

On the idea of not writing for an audience you don't feel a part of, I would have shared a similar sentiment if not for Dead Endings, to be honest. If anyone read any of it when I first did NaNoWriMo, you might remember that my main characters were male. When I got reached out to for a possible publishing deal, however, their line-up was already pretty male-main heavy and despite really liking what I had, they didn't think they had a place for it unless I was willing to entertain a pretty extreme change: a complete gender flip of all the characters.

I don't care for female main characters in a general sense, so it was a heck of a thing to ask. Part of what I don't like about female characters in books, though, is that they're written in a way I often find annoying (over emotional, over thinking everything, and usually dependent on a male love interest for half of their personality/motivation), but after talking it over with the editor I was challenged to write a female character I would actually like since I wasn't satisfied the way others wrote them.

So, to get the publishing deal I ended up writing for an audience I can't say I would have identified much with before. I definitely wanted to be published/get the experience, so that informed my decision a lot, but in the end, writing outside of my usual comfort zone was a really worthwhile experience too. Basically, it's worth considering for your own growth as a writer, in the end, should the opportunity come up. At least I thought it was.
Mike M
Nick N
(11-21-2014, 04:34 AM)
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It should be noted that I've never been published and should never be assumed to know WTF I'm talking about.
H.Protagonist
XSEED
(11-21-2014, 04:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mike M

It should be noted that I've never been published and should never be assumed to know WTF I'm talking about.

Ah, I wasn't trying to invalidate your thoughts on it, I promise. There's no right or wrong answer, really. I just thought I'd share the flip side since I had felt pretty much the way you did.

Basically, you now have to write erotica. \[-_-]/
Mike M
Nick N
(11-21-2014, 04:51 AM)
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A fate worse than death : (
Ashes
Member
(11-21-2014, 04:58 AM)
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Careful Mike. Mods be hovering over the writing threads these days.
You''ll be tagged: "believes his own hype" sooner or later.
Mike M
Nick N
(11-21-2014, 05:09 AM)
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I'll never get my comeuppance!

Mods can't tag, only admins. No comeuppance!
Nappuccino
Member
(11-21-2014, 08:23 AM)
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Hey, I mean, you could be relegated to writing dino-erotica.

You're still at least a step above that.
show me your skeleton
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(11-21-2014, 11:46 AM)
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guys, i prefer describing things rather than writing plot ir character development.
help.
Jintor
Lit himself on fire to get
a mod to tag him
(11-21-2014, 02:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by show me your skeleton

guys, i prefer describing things rather than writing plot ir character development.
help.

write it

get it out of your system

at the very least you'll have notes to refer to later
Aaron
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(11-21-2014, 03:53 PM)
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I've cleaned up some of my challenge stories with the intention of sending them out, but it's been a while since I've done this, and I'm not sure how to get started. Most of them are sci-fi / fantasy, but there are one or two more straight forward fiction. All are naturally pretty darn short. I've been feeling stuck in a rut lately, and need a push.
Mike M
Nick N
(11-21-2014, 04:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Aaron

I've cleaned up some of my challenge stories with the intention of sending them out, but it's been a while since I've done this, and I'm not sure how to get started. Most of them are sci-fi / fantasy, but there are one or two more straight forward fiction. All are naturally pretty darn short. I've been feeling stuck in a rut lately, and need a push.

http://thegrinder.diabolicalplots.com

Start at the top of the list and start working you way down, as someone once told me : )
Valerie Cherish
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(11-21-2014, 04:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by Daft Fear

Self-doubt is an unfortunate part of any creative field.

Agree with this a lot.

Answering the original question, yes. It's what has stopped me from just writing most days. I've slowly become better about showing other people my work (the writing challenges here helped with that, even though i don't post as much anymore.) The 350-words-a-day method referenced earlier in this thread has actually been very helpful for me.

I think i tangented all over the place with this, but I swear that it's all related.
Collete
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(11-21-2014, 09:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nappuccino

I write because I like to write, and I want to write what I want to read.

I hope there are enough people out there that share my mindset . . . but on top of that, you should give your readers a reason to invest in your writing. Get them to care about the characters, and they'll care about your writing :)

A reason for them to invest in my writing...
That's what I think every time I write, I just hope my reasons are enough behind the work I put into each character.

Thanks for the response, sincerely.
Daft Fear
Junior Member
(11-21-2014, 10:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by 360pages

Oh, here's a fun little tool for you guys

iwl.me

Nothing too big, just something interesting.

I did this once and it gave me Shakespeare. Eh no. Not really. I don't write like Shakespeare.

But then I did it with a different piece and it gave me J.K. Rowling. Bit different.

Originally Posted by H.Protagonist

When I got reached out to for a possible publishing deal, however, their line-up was already pretty male-main heavy and despite really liking what I had, they didn't think they had a place for it unless I was willing to entertain a pretty extreme change: a complete gender flip of all the characters.

I don't even know what I would do in that situation. Thinking about my novel right now with all the characters gender-flipped makes my head feel explode-y. But could also be very amusing.

Might be good practice.
Shengar
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(11-22-2014, 02:02 PM)
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Is it fine to write general physical description of your characters? I'm not very good with it because most of them I don't know the right name or term for specific hair styles, clothe, or physical trait.
fredrancour
Member
(11-22-2014, 07:57 PM)

Originally Posted by Shengar

Is it fine to write general physical description of your characters? I'm not very good with it because most of them I don't know the right name or term for specific hair styles, clothe, or physical trait.

yeah. an overly detailed description makes for fluff the reader will tune out. a couple general details are all that people remember most of the time when meeting people in real life. "The short girl with nice legs." "the man who really needed to shave" "the little blond girl covered in Frozen merchandise whose mother looked exhausted." Making a police sketch with your words every time a new character is introduced is both boring for the reader and not faithful to how humans actually remember each other.
AngmarsKing701
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(11-22-2014, 09:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by fredrancour

yeah. an overly detailed description makes for fluff the reader will tune out. a couple general details are all that people remember most of the time when meeting people in real life. "The short girl with nice legs." "the man who really needed to shave" "the little blond girl covered in Frozen merchandise whose mother looked exhausted." Making a police sketch with your words every time a new character is introduced is both boring for the reader and not faithful to how humans actually remember each other.

Great advice and the examples are perfect.
MidnightCowboy
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(11-22-2014, 09:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Shengar

Is it fine to write general physical description of your characters? I'm not very good with it because most of them I don't know the right name or term for specific hair styles, clothe, or physical trait.

I think it's perfectly fine. In fact, unless there is a specific trait I need to address, I very rarely use more than one adjective. I like my characters to be blank men and women so that the reader can imagine them as literally anyone.
H.Protagonist
XSEED
(11-23-2014, 01:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Daft Fear

I did this once and it gave me Shakespeare. Eh no. Not really. I don't write like Shakespeare.

But then I did it with a different piece and it gave me J.K. Rowling. Bit different.



I don't even know what I would do in that situation. Thinking about my novel right now with all the characters gender-flipped makes my head feel explode-y. But could also be very amusing.

Might be good practice.

I was pretty dismayed at first, I won't lie. I'd been planning something with these characters for years and it was the first time I'd actually made and executed a plan with them in it. To hear that the part that made the story interesting for me would have to be changed almost scuttled the whole thing. Plus, if I flipped them into women, I worried about people saying I'd created a self-insert character or something (they were men, dammit!). :(

But, after looking at it a little more logically, I had everything to gain from giving it a shot and I could always write my characters in another novel. The text I had was written in a one month period, too, so it kind of felt ideal as a test subject for my first go at the publishing world (i.e. my publisher could perform surgery on it and it wouldn't break my heart. Too much.).

And honestly, gender flipping your characters is REALLY eye-opening. I'd recommend just trying it as an exercise because I learned a hell of a lot from it.

Mainly: writing women is a minefield. ;_;
Gazoinks
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(11-23-2014, 01:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shengar

Is it fine to write general physical description of your characters? I'm not very good with it because most of them I don't know the right name or term for specific hair styles, clothe, or physical trait.

If anything, I'd say it's better than doing lengthy descriptions. That slows the story and a lot of people will tune it out. Personal pet peeve of mine is writers more occupied with description than storytelling. :P

A way to compromise between really sparse descriptions and text dumps is to parcel out the info. So, y'know, initially introduce someone as "the black-haired man", then mention him running his hands through his beard, or comment on how buff he is when he punches the protagonist's best friend in the nose. Integrate description into the narrative instead of just vomiting it at your reader.

Also, hello writing thread. I probably won't post much till NaNo's over, but I shall lurk...

Originally Posted by fredrancour

yeah. an overly detailed description makes for fluff the reader will tune out. a couple general details are all that people remember most of the time when meeting people in real life. "The short girl with nice legs." "the man who really needed to shave" "the little blond girl covered in Frozen merchandise whose mother looked exhausted." Making a police sketch with your words every time a new character is introduced is both boring for the reader and not faithful to how humans actually remember each other.

This is also great advice.
Timu
Member
(11-23-2014, 01:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by H.Protagonist

I've been fleshing out some of the Dead Endings stuff online of late doing mini-blogs and whatnot, and I thought I'd see if there were other GoodReads fellows out there. I've already added some Gaffers I know from the NaNoWriMo thread and here, but if you're on there as well and want to be buddies, let me know~

Here's mine


I'll add you when I hopefully join in the future.=p
H.Protagonist
XSEED
(11-23-2014, 01:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Timu

I'll add you when I hopefully join in the future.=p

Join ussssssssssssssssssssss...

No need to wait. ^_^
Conkersbadfurday
Member
(11-30-2014, 04:05 AM)
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So I finish finished FINISHED my first novel today. 428 pages and 134,509 words of...what wound up being high fantasy. Oh well. High fantasy is fun.

Feeling...really, really tired.

Next step is trying to land an agent I guess, unless ya'll think soliciting publishing agencies is the way to go. Look more official if I had an agent though.
AngmarsKing701
Member
(11-30-2014, 03:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Conkersbadfurday

So I finish finished FINISHED my first novel today. 428 pages and 134,509 words of...what wound up being high fantasy. Oh well. High fantasy is fun.

Feeling...really, really tired.

Next step is trying to land an agent I guess, unless ya'll think soliciting publishing agencies is the way to go. Look more official if I had an agent though.

Congrats! Good luck with finding an agent.
Mike M
Nick N
(11-30-2014, 04:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Conkersbadfurday

So I finish finished FINISHED my first novel today. 428 pages and 134,509 words of...what wound up being high fantasy. Oh well. High fantasy is fun.

Feeling...really, really tired.

Next step is trying to land an agent I guess, unless ya'll think soliciting publishing agencies is the way to go. Look more official if I had an agent though.

Guess it depends on what you mean by "finished."

If you've gotten feedback from beta readers and edited and revised, then my understanding is that an agent is necessity for getting in the proverbial door at big publishers. There are smaller ones that I see from time to time soliciting for manuscript submissions, but there seems to be a significant number if scams in the mix and even the legitimate ones don't look like they would have the muscle to market your book/require that you market your book.

If you haven't done revisions and beta readers yet, I would encourage in the strongest possible terms that you not go looking for an agent until you do. If you submit and they reject, they're not going to want to take another look when you've fixed if up.
AngmarsKing701
Member
(11-30-2014, 04:44 PM)
AngmarsKing701's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mike M

Guess it depends on what you mean by "finished."

If you've gotten feedback from beta readers and edited and revised, then my understanding is that an agent is necessity for getting in the proverbial door at big publishers. There are smaller ones that I see from time to time soliciting for manuscript submissions, but there seems to be a significant number if scams in the mix and even the legitimate ones don't look like they would have the muscle to market your book/require that you market your book.

If you haven't done revisions and beta readers yet, I would encourage in the strongest possible terms that you not go looking for an agent until you do. If you submit and they reject, they're not going to want to take another look when you've fixed if up.

Excellent advice
SquiddyCracker
Banned
(11-30-2014, 09:12 PM)

Originally Posted by 360pages

Oh, here's a fun little tool for you guys

iwl.me

Nothing too big, just something interesting.

Whaaaaaat, I write like Jonathan Swift?

So far all that I've written for nanowrimo, 50k+ words, gives me that result, but when I go on a chapter per chapter basis I get different results:

Prologue: Jonathan Swift
Chapter 1: Neil Gaiman
Chapter 2: Jonathan Swift
Chapter 3: Ursula Le Guin
Chapter 4: Jonathan Swift
Chapter 5: Harry Harrison
Chapter 6: David Foster Wallace
Chapter 7: Rudyard Kipling
Conkersbadfurday
Member
(11-30-2014, 09:13 PM)
Conkersbadfurday's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mike M

Guess it depends on what you mean by "finished."

If you've gotten feedback from beta readers and edited and revised, then my understanding is that an agent is necessity for getting in the proverbial door at big publishers. There are smaller ones that I see from time to time soliciting for manuscript submissions, but there seems to be a significant number if scams in the mix and even the legitimate ones don't look like they would have the muscle to market your book/require that you market your book.

If you haven't done revisions and beta readers yet, I would encourage in the strongest possible terms that you not go looking for an agent until you do. If you submit and they reject, they're not going to want to take another look when you've fixed if up.

Oh, I've done plenty of editing and revising. Book is 40 pages shorter than when the first draft was finished early this year.
H.Protagonist
XSEED
(12-01-2014, 03:46 AM)
H.Protagonist's Avatar

Originally Posted by Conkersbadfurday

So I finish finished FINISHED my first novel today. 428 pages and 134,509 words of...what wound up being high fantasy. Oh well. High fantasy is fun.

Feeling...really, really tired.

Next step is trying to land an agent I guess, unless ya'll think soliciting publishing agencies is the way to go. Look more official if I had an agent though.

Congrats! That's a huge (134,509?!) accomplishment. I'm always happy to have more fantasy out in the world. :)

On the agent-side, I don't know about all the authors here, but I think whatevermort is the only one with a major publisher and therefore perhaps the only one with an agent/agent experience. Several have sent their stuff to publishing agencies, though, I believe. Mike M? Ashes?
AngmarsKing701
Member
(12-01-2014, 03:52 AM)
AngmarsKing701's Avatar

Originally Posted by H.Protagonist

Congrats! That's a huge (134,509?!) accomplishment. I'm always happy to have more fantasy out in the world. :)

On the agent-side, I don't know about all the authors here, but I think whatevermort is the only one with a major publisher and therefore perhaps the only one with an agent/agent experience. Several have sent their stuff to publishing agencies, though, I believe. Mike M? Ashes?

The first draft of Ahvarra was 189,000 words. That's the power of editing and beta readers, that the final published edition is roughly 124,000.

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