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Cross The Line - Sexual Assault... ok, maybe just Sexual Harassment!

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Yeah? DuckRolls posts don't count as insults? Or were you just too busy hitting F5 on Neato's post history to notice he insulted people too, why aren't you on his ass?

I already touched on that, and I'm sure he knows looking back on it wasn't the greatest thing to post. But constantly drilling into people on GAF in hateful immature ways is stupid and childish. We are all adults here... You asked why he was banned, and you got a response with examples of things that don't fly. It was way over the 3 strikes you are out territory as well.....

Ehhh I'm just copy patsta what I said on the other page here now cause it looks like it's needed -.-

You can talk about the subject in this topic easily. Just be as rational as possible and don't let one side of the argument piss you off to the point were you turn into a raging lunatic and start spouting hateful garbage. The more you can see both sides of the argument the easier it is to do so. This is pretty much the guideline for any debate or discussion.
 
So you're either agreeing with my point or implying that it's okay if games and gamers are sexist because society as a whole is sexist. Unfortunately, my perception is that the gaming community is more sexist than society as a whole.

No, I'm saying that you are completely wrong and society is far more sexist than the gaming community. You just don't get to see it.
 

Kifftopher

Neo Member
No, I'm saying that you are completely wrong and society is far more sexist than the gaming community. You just don't get to see it.

That just sounds like willful ignorance to me. Have you looked at female characters in fighting games, or... games? Are you unaware of the male/female ratio, from developers to players? I just don't even know how you could believe gaming doesn't have a problem with sexism.
 

Amir0x

Banned
i was wondering why this topic was so big

goddamn this is a fucked up story

sort of continues to support my suspicions that heavily geek communities are far more prone to sexual harassment than other communities, due in large part to a feeling of so frequently being rejected by the opposite sex or simply being unable to know how to act due to social ineptitude. So these people compensate in a really negative way
 
That just sounds like willful ignorance to me. Have you looked at female characters in fighting games, or... games? Are you unaware of the male/female ratio, from developers to players? I just don't even know how you could believe gaming doesn't have a problem with sexism.

Have you ever heard of honor killings? Or rape? Domestic assault? Infanticide based on gender? Sexual slavery?

Now compare that to male female ratio and garbage like that. Kinda tame by comparison right?
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Have you ever heard of honor killings? Or rape? Domestic assault? Infanticide based on gender? Sexual slavery?

Now compare that to male female ratio and garbage like that. Kinda tame by comparison right?
"Other people are worse" isn't a particularly good excuse.
 

Kifftopher

Neo Member
Have you ever heard of honor killings? Or rape? Domestic assault? Infanticide based on gender? Sexual slavery?

Now compare that to male female ratio and garbage like that. Kinda tame by comparison right?

Oh, okay, you've convinced me that women playing games and being sexually harassed should just be happy we men allow them to participate in our community without raping them and murdering them babies.
 

Riposte

Member
i was wondering why this topic was so big

goddamn this is a fucked up story

sort of continues to support my suspicions that heavily geek communities are far more prone to sexual harassment than other communities, due in large part to a feeling of so frequently being rejected by the opposite sex or simply being unable to know how to act due to social ineptitude. So these people compensate in a really negative way

Gamers sure like to project onto fighting gamers don't they?

EDIT: I'm not sure whether Spooky has commented lately on what happened with SRK/Level-Up, but it seems he has. Can anyone link me?
 

Jintor

Member
Have you ever heard of honor killings? Or rape? Domestic assault? Infanticide based on gender? Sexual slavery?

Now compare that to male female ratio and garbage like that. Kinda tame by comparison right?

This is a terrible argument. By this logic I shouldn't complain about being hit because people are killed.
 

Chavelo

Member
Have you ever heard of honor killings? Or rape? Domestic assault? Infanticide based on gender? Sexual slavery?

Now compare that to male female ratio and garbage like that. Kinda tame by comparison right?

4ltgt.jpg


I love this picture, btw
 
His argument was that society was not as sexist as the gaming community. Yet society still actively discriminates against women while gaming is more inclusive in the sense that anyone can pick up a game and play. It is only when we get into player/player interaction that we find conflict.

If we find that the depth of sexism in video gaming is harassment, while society's hatred toward women is all the acts I have decribed, I would say that we on a whole are somewhat better than society, believe it or not.
 
This is a terrible argument. By this logic I shouldn't complain about being hit because people are killed.

It kinda reminds me of what a former friend of mine used to say when I told how hungry I was. "Dude, there are kids in Africa who wished that had as much food as you!". Damn, my fault for complaining! I guess since I'm not some blind deaf and dumb kid starving to death after being raped by fuckin' wolves or something, I shouldn't complain because hey, it could be a lot worse!
 
Have you ever heard of honor killings? Or rape? Domestic assault? Infanticide based on gender? Sexual slavery?

Now compare that to male female ratio and garbage like that. Kinda tame by comparison right?
This is just as stupid an argument as when Richard Dawkins used it.
 
Alright then, let me rephrase my argument.

My initial statement was a rebuttal to his statement:

I wish I lived in your world where women in and playing video games are all treated with respect and dignity like equal human beings. The games where they aren't more often than not reduced to sexual objects must be really nice.

To which I replied:
No, I'm saying that you are completely wrong and society is far more sexist than the gaming community. You just don't get to see it.

This was his response.
That just sounds like willful ignorance to me. Have you looked at female characters in fighting games, or... games? Are you unaware of the male/female ratio, from developers to players? I just don't even know how you could believe gaming doesn't have a problem with sexism.

I disagreed with that statement.

Society is far more sexist than the gaming community.

Gaming is inherently less sexist because of the open nature of the medium. Anyone can pick up a game and play it. The gaming community also extends beyond the nature of competitive gaming, which is where we see most of the sexism in the form of human/human interaction. Many single player games are played by females who do not encounter sexual harassment from other people. However, the reason we do not see many females in gaming is not because of harassment, it is more because of a lack of interest in the genre, and less content being tailored to them, which can hardly be called sexism.

Society on the other hand, is broader and less well defined. IF he means western society, sexism is still extremely apparent, from religion to politics. Despite the strides we have taken, an equal society is still far beyond our reach, to say nothing of other societies in Saudi Arabia, China and the like where woman experience a fraction of the liberty that men do.
 

Jintor

Member
I still don't really see where "Society is more sexist than the gaming community" actually means "the gaming community is not sexist" or invalidates his argument that the gaming community is sexist. It's still just "Well, people have it worse [here]" which, while true, is not perhaps all that related.
 
I still don't really see where "Society is more sexist than the gaming community" actually means "the gaming community is not sexist" or invalidates his argument that the gaming community is sexist. It's still just "Well, people have it worse [here]" which, while true, is not perhaps all that related.

I did not mean to imply that that the gaming community is not sexist, it is merely less sexist than society at large, for which we can be grateful.

And of course it is related. The gaming community is but a facet of society as a whole as well.

This was the exchange I was replying to:

There's an underlying sexism and bigotry that's present in this and frankly most gaming communities.

There's an underlying sexism and bigotry that's present in this and frankly most gaming communities.

This is what I was afraid of. I just KNEW this would happen.

It's just not true. It appears as if it was true because those communities with these problems are frequently being spotlighted, and even more so right now.

And of course, it bounces back and hits the rest of the gaming world.

What about female MMORPG players? They can do whatever the fuck they want without being seriously harassed most of the time. Like, look at the female portion of the scenes that's grown around DAOC. Or WoW.

Same goes for CS. Women can play on public servers and not be harassed. They are part of clans, they fuckin' play professionally without being reduced to the tits.

Or if you want to get really "okay, you're doing your thing, have fun", look at what went on in Second Life, and what kind of a role female players played in that.

This is what I was afraid of. I just KNEW this would happen.

It's just not true. It appears as if it was true because those communities with these problems are frequently being spotlighted, and even more so right now.

I wish I lived in your world where women in and playing video games are all treated with respect and dignity like equal human beings. The games where they aren't more often than not reduced to sexual objects must be really nice.

I felt his statement was naive compared to what women in the real world had to go through. I misresponded.
 

ElFly

Member
Alright then, let me rephrase my argument.

My initial statement was a rebuttal to his statement:



To which I replied:


This was his response.

I disagreed with that statement.

Society is far more sexist than the gaming community.

Gaming is inherently less sexist because of the open nature of the medium. Anyone can pick up a game and play it. The gaming community also extends beyond the nature of competitive gaming, which is where we see most of the sexism in the form of human/human interaction. Many single player games are played by females who do not encounter sexual harassment from other people. However, the reason we do not see many females in gaming is not because of harassment, it is more because of a lack of interest in the genre, and less content being tailored to them, which can hardly be called sexism.

Society on the other hand, is broader and less well defined. IF he means western society, sexism is still extremely apparent, from religion to politics. Despite the strides we have taken, an equal society is still far beyond our reach, to say nothing of other societies in Saudi Arabia, China and the like where woman experience a fraction of the liberty that men do.

This is a silly rebuttal.

We should not give carte blanche to the gaming community to have sexist jokes just because -they think- they are less sexist than the society at large. Change happens step by step, and ignoring the little issues won't let us solve the bigger issues.
 
So did Kotaku do Miranda's twitter post yet?


"Sexual Harassment Victim Deflecting From Seriousness Of Situation By Saying FGC Came Out To Support Her"

pretty sad that so many on GAF defended Kotaku on this thing. amazing. You can spot when Halo 46 is only 1279 x 719, but some of you should learn to research before just hopping on a kotaku shit train to diarrhea town in the united states of poo poo.
 

Kifftopher

Neo Member
Gaming is inherently less sexist because of the open nature of the medium. Anyone can pick up a game and play it. The gaming community also extends beyond the nature of competitive gaming, which is where we see most of the sexism in the form of human/human interaction. Many single player games are played by females who do not encounter sexual harassment from other people. However, the reason we do not see many females in gaming is not because of harassment, it is more because of a lack of interest in the genre, and less content being tailored to them, which can hardly be called sexism.

You're still ignoring that the games themselves are designed by and for men, with sexist portrayals of women. I'm not just talking about individual instances of sexual harassment of one individual by another individual. This isn't just "less content being tailored to them," it's content that belittles them.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
pretty sad that so many on GAF defended Kotaku on this thing. amazing. You can spot when Halo 46 is only 1279 x 719, but some of you should learn to research before just hopping on a kotaku shit train to diarrhea town in the united states of poo poo.
Actually, you're the one deflecting the issue by focusing on Kotaku. The messenger doesn't have much to do with what's being discussed in this thread.
 
You're still ignoring that the games themselves are designed by and for men, with sexist portrayals of women. I'm not just talking about individual instances of sexual harassment of one individual by another individual. This isn't just "less content being tailored to them," it's content that belittles them.

But why then are games designed for men in the first place?

Because women do not buy them. It is that simple.

Games like Tetris, peggle and farmville are played by millions of women are do not portray sexual content of any kind whatsoever.

Most games do not actively degrade women. they do however appeal via sex, because it is an effective form of marketing. That has been shown in movies, advertisement, music and other mediums. This is not sexism, it is appeal through basic biological instinct.
 
"Sexual Harassment Victim Deflecting From Seriousness Of Situation By Saying FGC Came Out To Support Her"

pretty sad that so many on GAF defended Kotaku on this thing. amazing. You can spot when Halo 46 is only 1279 x 719, but some of you should learn to research before just hopping on a kotaku shit train to diarrhea town in the united states of poo poo.

Wait, so where was Kotaku wrong exactly? I seem to recall that that they pretty much summed up articles that were already out that Miranda said were accurate.

Edit: Plus, I'm not sure why anyone's expecting them to have posted anything about the Miranda statement at this point. I'm assuming they work regular office hours.
 

Kifftopher

Neo Member
But why then are games designed for men in the first place?

Because women do not buy them. It is that simple.

Games like Tetris, peggle and farmville are played by millions of women are do not portray sexual content of any kind whatsoever.

You just defeated your own argument for me! Women DO buy and play games, IF they aren't full of sexist portrayals of women.
 
You just defeated your own argument for me! Women DO buy and play games, IF they aren't full of sexist portrayals of women.

And likewise. How is gaming so sexist through player ratios if so many women are playing them? Where is the sexism that prevents them from playing?
 

Kifftopher

Neo Member
Most games do not actively degrade women. they do however appeal via sex, because it is an effective form of marketing. That has been shown in movies, advertisement, music and other mediums. This is not sexism, it is appeal through basic biological instinct.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. You just don't get it.
 
But why then are games designed for men in the first place?

Because women do not buy them. It is that simple.


Games like Tetris, peggle and farmville are played by millions of women are do not portray sexual content of any kind whatsoever.

Most games do not actively degrade women. they do however appeal via sex, because it is an effective form of marketing. That has been shown in movies, advertisement, music and other mediums. This is not sexism, it is appeal through basic biological instinct.
Holy. Shit.

You really need to get a better understanding of video game history, especially the gendered dimensions of it.

Edit: Oh shit, I just noticed the last sentence. Biological instinct son.

neogeo_ad_2.jpg
 

Kifftopher

Neo Member
And likewise. How is gaming so sexist through player ratios if so many women are playing them? Where is the sexism that prevents them from playing?

What "prevents them from playing" is their utter aversion to the ridiculous way women are portrayed in the major AAA titles. They want to play games, and do play more innocuous, inoffensive games like Peggle but most would refuse to refer to themselves as "gamers" because they rightly perceive the general industry and community as unwelcoming to them.
 
Holy. Shit.

You really need to get a better understanding of video game history, especially the gendered dimensions of it.

Why?

The best selling games have historically appealed to both genders. Games like super mario bros, pacman, and tetris appealed to both genders However, it is only recently the trend has moved towards games that specifically targeted males. However there has been a shift in the marketing and and production of games tailored towards a specific gender. Games such as GTA and COD are all anyone can think of when people name games nowadays. Which is a specific marketing shift towards men in general.

And sex sells. Whether you like it or not, it does. That is the truth.
 
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