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Chapo Trap House [OT] Speed Boat Dope Cocaine Genesis
- Thread starter BUNTING1243
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Father_Brain
Banned
and on the listener side: it's frustrating to see so much bad-faith criticism of something you like, but it's important to resist the temptation to get overly defensive and instead point out when they do things like the Cosby tweet or the autism jokes that really are problematic. doesn't do anyone any good to put a podcast up on a pedestal
I have no delusions about what they are. It is just me expressing my sadness that the only semi-popular voice for a 18-25 audience that promotes capitalism critique is such a deeply flawed (to the point of uselessness) one. I'm especially sad that they almost completely displace racism as just another form of capitalistic exploitation when it is clear that those problems are to a certain extent disjunct.
Curious Puppy
Banned
I'm not necessarily questioning it, I'm just really really surprised that anyone who personally knows disabled people would find this kind of language acceptable. I'm friends with several autism parents, and they can't stand hearing this shit.
When people defend them for doing this shit it does justify dismissing them. Lie down with racist dogs, get up with racist fleas.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
You and I are basically in the same boat, and I also just can't stand listening to these guys and don't like the effect I perceive them having
Like, fuck, can't we have something better?
maybe if you willfully ignore or cant comprehend the substance of their criticism of her place in the neoliberal imperialist machine
If you haven't heard/seen this you haven't been listening or looking, it is super blatant.
Ignore the writer's opinion then and just look at the quotes, are you really comfortable with autism being used as a slur and a punchline? Because that is the point, that the Chapo guys are really, really, really comfortable using marginalised groups as such rhetorical devices.
radios shipping overview
Member
Like when they go on a jag indulging in conspiracy theories about her health? Is that about her place in the neoliberal imperialist machine?
Finale Fireworker
Member
I will - thank you. I haven't listened to anything yet, but I'm checking them out.
Even as a patron, I don't even know how to broach this sort of criticism with them. And I think that's also part of the problem. I'm a fan, and a follower, and a subscriber, and have actually been following all the personalities long before they had a podcast. But I don't feel like I can talk to them or interact with them at all. But they supposedly listen to comments, because they'll unlock episodes when patrons recommend it, but I wish there was a stronger community aspect to the show. I think that would help.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Giving this a look
radios shipping overview
Member
I've seen it, just not to the extent some have mentioned in here. What bothers me more is to see excuses or cheering for it.
she just made 20 million dollars cashing in on a disastrous historical inflection point with a book full of blame games
she doesnt need you defending her character or health from being besmirched by a bunch of angry podcasters. they fuckin voted for her.
radios shipping overview
Member
Well, this post speaks for itself.
Curious Puppy
Banned
What the fuck?
jack_package_200
Banned
I am glad to see some introspection going on here in regards to this podcast.
Leftists deserve better!
Seems pretty standard for Nomis.
Leftists deserve better!
Seems pretty standard for Nomis.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
At what point do Chapos own finances become game for criticism?
Dude Abides
Banned
I hope everybody marked three spaces on their bingo cards.
So making jokes about Clinton passing out on the campaign trail is indulging conspiracies? They dont talk about her kill list or that Clinton Cash bs documentary or any of the other stuff that conservatives have been spewing about her since her husband was in office. But ya youre right if you plug your ears a little bit theyre basically indistinguishable from a far right podcast
When they achieve political office and get people of color in the middle east blown to smithereens with their policies? When they become the democratic candidate and have such hubris that they lose 2020 to Donald Trump? I dont know where that line is for me actually. Theyve lately tried to lampshade their immense patreon income with jokey throwaway lines, but I dont know how long they can keep that up without seriously addressing it themselves.
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
Because an "alt-right aesthetic" is a arbitrary concept that is completely subjective?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Rhetoric is not cleanly divisible from politics. We need to be able to critique rhetorical strategies on the grounds that they influence the politics they express
They think it's funny to call people autistic. It's a mainstay of Chan humor.
You're being a little obtuse about this, at best.
Add in gaming, but no lie.
Pretty much any sub-culture that is male-dominated that became part of those dudes' identities = in the bushes.
Curious Puppy
Banned
Yep. And they've crossed into their 20s being staunchly defensive of their warped sense of humor. They're fucked.
Dude Abides
Banned
You're arguing with a guy who chose "Hitlersaurus Christ" as a username.
It's definitely my least favorite part of the shows, but I don't think them indulging in bullshit low brow rhetoric is quite the same as the right wing propaganda. They peddle some dumb stuff with insincere tones presuming the audience understands what's going on, unlike the right wing that literally tries to pass off complete fabrications as truths by deceiving and lying to their audience. It's very different.
At some point, through layers of whatever presumed irony or justification based on intent you grant them, its effectively the same.
Also - THEY HAVE A GREAT MESSAGE. This doesn't help promote their ideals to a broader group, when effectively their message and platform is clearly not a safe space for marginalized groups. I'm not involved with the DSA, but I can't imagine that they're happy with this (one of the dudes is an LA chair or something?). Fuck that.
ok this is pretty funny
How is this different from the defense of Milo from the right?
BUNTING1243
Banned
I think it depends on what they are talking about, the Cosby joke absolutely crossed the line. I would feel better about it if they seemed to be learning at all, but none of them seem to have minus Felix.
And yeah, it really undercuts the message and that sucks. They have a lot of potential
Hierophant
Banned
At some point there's no fucking difference?
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Hierophant
Banned
I agree with him.
I'm not equating Milo and Chapo - but the defense is effectively the same. "He's trolling, his hateful language isn't real, he doesn't mean it, triggered much?", etc. etc.
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
And that's fair enough, but not everything that is offensive in that sense should qualify as an "alt-right aesthetic."
Hierophant
Banned
if you go onto the chapo reddit (biggest community for the pod) and look at the current myriad of discussion and callout posts, nobody is saying "triggered much?", mostly just talking about bad the joke is
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/75zkvt/psa_people_telling_you_that_you_have_to_be/
its definitely not real but its agreed its not good either there
Do you genuinely believe those twitter trolls want to stuff Ben Shapiro in a gas chamber?
Does that make it fine?
(Also, some of them clearly do, but that just emphasizes my point.)
Even ignoring intent, what they're doing is vastly different from alt right figureheads. People like Milo and PJW are fabricating lies by twisting truths and sometimes completely making things up. CTH don't do that. It is incredibly disingenuous to say they're the leftist version of those people.
Hierophant
Banned
wait when did they ever say they wanted to shove him into a gas chamber?
and no i guess it isn't?
which is funny because all they do is just make short jokes about him
the only people i've seen them come close to anything like that would be like kissinger, hoping he croaks soon (which i do too honestly)
I'm not trying to shit on the Chapo community -
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/75yxm3/chapo_misogyny_struggle_session/
Think this is a better discussion (with a minority - but still a good portion - of bad responses that clearly don't get it).
Pretty bad thread tbh
This is disingenuous. If you literally cannot tell the difference between right wing and left wing criticism of the same person then I honestly hope you can't vote.
Politics is about more important shit than civility toward wealthy political failures. If your political worldview is based entirely on politeness then it is worse than useless. If you cannot distinguish anti-imperialist criticism of foreign policy from literal fascism then you might just not actually believe in anything.
There is a lot of bad-faith shitposting in this thread but there is also some genuine concern. I think those concerns are misplaced but liberals really honestly do believe that any reference to oppression or discrimination must be entirely gravely serious or else it is basically /pol/. Even explicitly sarcastic rephrasings of their opponents' political beliefs are taken as shitty white dudebro brodude brocislist white male bro privilege.
Personally as a poc I have never, ever felt uncomfortable or hurt listening to the show. But I don't really subscribe to the "don't look into the abyss" school of online political discourse.
This post is the exact opposite side of that coin though.
This is disingenuous. If you literally cannot tell the difference between right wing and left wing criticism of the same person then I honestly hope you can't vote.
Politics is about more important shit than civility toward wealthy political failures. If your political worldview is based entirely on politeness then it is worse than useless. If you cannot distinguish anti-imperialist criticism of foreign policy from literal fascism then you might just not actually believe in anything.
There is a lot of bad-faith shitposting in this thread but there is also some genuine concern. I think those concerns are misplaced but liberals really honestly do believe that any reference to oppression or discrimination must be entirely gravely serious or else it is basically /pol/. Even explicitly sarcastic rephrasings of their opponents' political beliefs are taken as shitty white dudebro brodude brocislist white male bro privilege.
Personally as a poc I have never, ever felt uncomfortable or hurt listening to the show. But I don't really subscribe to the "don't look into the abyss" school of online political discourse.
This post is the exact opposite side of that coin though.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I think we're getting into the weeds a bit too much by comparing them to the depths of awfulness of the right, a level on which they are very obviously not. That doesn't mean the issues some people are raising in here are less valid
Thats what the pictures of him in a gas chamber they keep sending him are meant to signify, genius.
So if thats not okay does that maybe imply that just saying this is a joke lol doesnt actually make any meme you want to throw out there okay?
Edit: Im talking about the Nazi twitter trolls, Im not suggesting Chapo is doing this.
Way to totally miss the part where women lefties and other minority DSA members felt uncomfortable. That's where you have a problem.
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