BrokenEchelon
Banned
Dat RAM at work.
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Forza Motorsport 5: no night, no weather, no storefront, no auction house
- Thread starter Mascot
- Start date
PseudoKirby
Banned
this is fucking rediculous, Forza is almost a yearly thing now and THEY KEEP PUMPING OUT GAMES WITH NO BIG CHANGES.
what the hell turn 10, stop diluting down forza, I see no point in buying any more forza games in the future, Graphics aren't that fucking important...
quite honestly we didnt even need 3 and 4, they should have been ONE DAMN GAME.
And Horizon could have been 50 times better as well..
what the hell turn 10, stop diluting down forza, I see no point in buying any more forza games in the future, Graphics aren't that fucking important...
quite honestly we didnt even need 3 and 4, they should have been ONE DAMN GAME.
And Horizon could have been 50 times better as well..
chixdiggit
Member
At this point Forza was the only thing that would have me getting a Xbox1 at launch. This is not helping the case.
Yup. Summed it up perfectly.
I don't mean to harp on about this and bring it up again, but the reason PGR4 didn't have full night/day cycles on all tracks was due to storage (the way they did it, they needed completely different textures for day/night on every track because of how the lighting worked) and that's it. Now that T10 have all the storage they could ask for (One was using BR, yes? So ~25GB?) even if they went with that old method the same as the 360, they could piss it in. And don't discount that Horizon managed to do it in Turn 10's own engine (albeit at 30fps) quite successfully, too. I don't know whether it's the push for launch or what, but it's not a good look.
So we're at the stage I always saw coming with FM5 (though not with this specificity) of "Yeah, it's great, BUT...". Seems to be a Turn 10 staple
I won't. I have my reasonsNever change
Thing is, it's not the actual lack of night that is disappointing... it's what the absence of it represents: An inability to deliver a complete game.
FunnyBunny
Member
Mascot, you are quickly becoming my favorite person on the board. You managed to sum up exactly how I feel.
Paladin CL
Member
Disagree! , Turn10 is a great developer that has always delivered complete games. We will always have thing we want and things missing and and somehow everytime one of those things get done we put all the weight in the things that are still missing.
Both Forza and GT are mesured with CRAZY standards, people doesnt only ask them having weather, they want hundreds of cars, 60 fps, 1080p, great AI, lots of tracks, amazing graphics, great 3d models, amazing sound, top physics, realistic damage, cockpit view of every car, etc. And if one or 2 of those things are not present we make a storm and call them lazy.
We are getting open wheelers finally, something that has been asked many times, and real windshields and 1080p, better lightning, better AI and theres probably going to be many other nice things.
Other games have weather, other games have night but what other games are able to make such complete packages? What if Turn10 release the game at 30 fps with weather and night? what if they release it at 720p, what if they release it with 8 cars on track?
We forgive these things in other games all the time yet Forza and GT have to be perfect.
So, is a bit disappointing? yes but calling the game incomplete is just too much.
Edit: Could we stop comparing weather with soccer or bowling, those things have nothing to do with each other, none of those activities affect the physics or the visuals, its flawed logic at its best, its like when people were saying "I dont want 800 standards cars in GT5, i´ll trade them for 100 premium", it simply doesnt make sense, soccer and bowling are easy to do and already done, same as porting 800 cars from GT4 was nothing like making 100 premium cars.
Except that taking out the storefront (that was in the last 2 games) and the auction house (that was in the last 3 games) is dump. Who cares really for autovista on all the cars? It was super gimmicky to begin with.
Not having night or weather is dissapointing but doesn't really bother me... Taking out established features however is just stupid.
I do. It means great detail in each and every car. If T10 manages to deliver this it will be the best car game for me. I've spent most time in FM4 and GT5 just looking at cars in the homespaces with cool music playing in the background. That's all I want from FM5 - pure car porn. And with Next-Gen GT being another 5 years away, there is no competition for Forza in this field.
Paladin CL
Member
While theres no storefront theres going to be ways to search and share paints, tunning setups and photos, so its not like you cant do those things, they simply changed the way you do it and it could be a change for the better.
I dont know about auction house but could be the same thing, maybe there a new way too.
Having Forzavista for all cars could mean that old inaccurate models from Forza 1-2 era are redone which is someone that lots of us have been asking too. Plus Autovista was fun for me.
seattle6418
Member
For the half dozen or so future Xbone users, remember you can get Pcars on the console.
That might soften the blow, but if you can only use fisher price wheels, then it's irrelevant for any serious players.
That might soften the blow, but if you can only use fisher price wheels, then it's irrelevant for any serious players.
why put both PS4 and Xone in the same sentence?
Drive CLub looks miless ahead of GT6 and Forza 5
Blame xone's HW for the poor graphics.
I'll multiquote, but not because I'm trying to tear apart your post, just give every point the time it deserves
Conversely, PGR titles have never felt to me like that. They may not have as many features as FM but what it does, it does damn well and never gives you a feeling that something's been cut, held back or compromised.
I think there's also a certain amount of bitterness coming from the fact that car bowling or whatever conflicts with the "drive real cars around tracks real fast" ethos that the game is going for. When people see that diluted (to an extent), there could be that (perhaps rational, perhaps not) leap to think "If they included that, why couldn't they include X? Shouldn't they have included X instead?".
I'm sorry if it's sounding like I'm trying to pick your post apart or anything. Just trying to offer an alternate perspective, hopefully explaining that it's not just bitterness for the sake of it, that it actually comes from a real place that has personal justification to it
I have a fairly specific definition for what I consider "complete". Not that it's unfinished or there are rough edges, but obvious omissions that give you the "This would've been great, but..." vibe. FM4 was fairly solid, but omissions like difficulty level and the number of laps in career mode races feels like they just didn't think things through enough.
Conversely, PGR titles have never felt to me like that. They may not have as many features as FM but what it does, it does damn well and never gives you a feeling that something's been cut, held back or compromised.
But they've built on each of those with each iteration (for the most part). But from what we've seen, other than open-wheelers there's nothing significant we can point at and say "This is what's new, different and better with FM5". I don't think it's wrong to want to see the game evolve, and there's been that in adequate measure for each of the Forza titles. But when a night mode has been engineered to work in Turn 10's own engine with Horizon, you have to wonder why it hasn't been implemented. I don't think it's wrong to have expected it.
This is true, and perhaps it's just a sign of entitlement, but that's kind of what's expected with a new game in any kind of franchise (except for the windshields thing obviously, can't have that in an FPS!). I'd be bummed if I bought any kind of game that necessitated AI where it wasn't improved or tweaked with each iteration. Especially an iteration that's running on vastly more powerful hardware.
We forgive them in other games because they're generally kept on the same platform where we know the system specifications are being pushed to the limit and compromises have to be made (we can see that in FM4, where different level LODs are used depending on whether it's a TT or full race, the 30fps/60fps mirrors etc.). The problem with a new console is we don't have a reasonable idea of what it's capable of, so we don't know what factors come into play when a feature like night racing is omitted. Is it time? Is it budget? Is it hardware restrictions? My problem is that like I said earlier, Horizon showed us it was possible with a cut in framerate (and they were able to add additional effects like god rays and AA with that sacrifice), so I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected it on vastly superior hardware (even if it isn't as powerful as the PS4 or whatever).
I think the comparison comes from the hangover of them being included with FM4, and the impact they may have had on development of other parts of the game. Sure, they might've been planned from the start, but if, say, 300 man hours are dedicating to implementing it, who's to say that with those hours they couldn't have found a way to eliminate the glare from the roads? Or created an extra track?
I think there's also a certain amount of bitterness coming from the fact that car bowling or whatever conflicts with the "drive real cars around tracks real fast" ethos that the game is going for. When people see that diluted (to an extent), there could be that (perhaps rational, perhaps not) leap to think "If they included that, why couldn't they include X? Shouldn't they have included X instead?".
I'm sorry if it's sounding like I'm trying to pick your post apart or anything. Just trying to offer an alternate perspective, hopefully explaining that it's not just bitterness for the sake of it, that it actually comes from a real place that has personal justification to it
....
Dude, no. GT5 has night/weather. You do realize that the Xbone is way more powerful than a PS3 right? I think T10 just had to make some sacrifice to make F5 a launch title which is a shame.
NullPointer
Member
Do you think the next-gen Gran Turismo is going to have to make that choice? I don't.
Luckily for Turn 10 they might be able to put out two more next-gen Forzas by the time that happens.
You're making the assumption that night was dropped because of a lack of system resources. Weather I can somewhat conceive as possible that it's not optimised enough for all the effects it would have in the physics area, but night racing... I just can't see how it would have such an overhead that hardware performance is the issue.
This post is hilarious. This is a f'ing next gen console. Should I point you to some youtube GT5 videos?
Tallshortman
Member
Man they cut some serious corners scrambling to get this out by launch date.
Well is great you're getting what you want.. I want a racing game. Pure car porn does nothing for me, but I guess thats where the producers priorities and what I want from this game begin to divert.
soundscream
Member
Yeah I read that somewhere else, it screens licensing issue because there is no reason the fanatec wheels shouldn't be able to work through USB.
It's would really suck if I bought a wheel designed for a 360 that worked on PS3/PC will likely also work on PS4 yet can't work on Xbox One because of a licensing issue.
Meanwhile someone who bought a G25 will have the ability to use it on 3 consoles.
LowerLevel
Member
No night, no weather, no storefront, no auction house, no care! Still getting this!
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
LOL no...
SatansReverence
Hipster Princess
They've already confirmed a new thrustmaster wheel for it...
the question was more about the FM4 branded wheels
Well for racing there are so many other games, GT6 is coming out this year, get that. Honestly, the racing genre is way overpopulated with empty racers, even at this E3, I honestly can't tell a single difference between the new NFS, The Crew or the Driveclub, they all look bland and uninspired, FM is like a beacon of hope for me. And may it never change.
none of those games have sim physics, so they are not in the same category.
MrTroubleMaker
Member
dang
sportzhead
Member
I bet there will be a lot less cars and tracks too. If you are going to announce such a cut back in features you would also want to try and promote whatever positives you have going for you. The amount of detail in the cars means it takes an awful long time to create them (just ask PD). The same goes for tracks.
And about not knowing if current wheels will work while developing a partnership with a new wheel manufacture is just completely ridiculous.
And about not knowing if current wheels will work while developing a partnership with a new wheel manufacture is just completely ridiculous.
Speedy Blue Dude
Banned
Disappointing for sure. I'm REALLY hoping this is just because they're making a push for launch. Please Turn 10, no matter what, make Forza Motorsport 6 have Night and Weather.
I'm also hoping Forza Horizon 2 becomes a thing. I hope Turn 10 and Playground take turns making Forza an annual franchise. A racing simulator and an arcade racer, Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon both becoming a series. Both for different group of racing fans. Anyone know if this is planned? I hope so. Is Playground Games a Microsoft First Party Studio?
I'm also hoping Forza Horizon 2 becomes a thing. I hope Turn 10 and Playground take turns making Forza an annual franchise. A racing simulator and an arcade racer, Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon both becoming a series. Both for different group of racing fans. Anyone know if this is planned? I hope so. Is Playground Games a Microsoft First Party Studio?
And historic GP cars, fucking sweet!
Paladin CL
Member
I'll multiquote, but not because I'm trying to tear apart your post, just give every point the time it deserves
I have a fairly specific definition for what I consider "complete". Not that it's unfinished or there are rough edges, but obvious omissions that give you the "This would've been great, but..." vibe. FM4 was fairly solid, but omissions like difficulty level and the number of laps in career mode races feels like they just didn't think things through enough.
Conversely, PGR titles have never felt to me like that. They may not have as many features as FM but what it does, it does damn well and never gives you a feeling that something's been cut, held back or compromised.
But they've built on each of those with each iteration (for the most part). But from what we've seen, other than open-wheelers there's nothing significant we can point at and say "This is what's new, different and better with FM5". I don't think it's wrong to want to see the game evolve, and there's been that in adequate measure for each of the Forza titles. But when a night mode has been engineered to work in Turn 10's own engine with Horizon, you have to wonder why it hasn't been implemented. I don't think it's wrong to have expected it.
This is true, and perhaps it's just a sign of entitlement, but that's kind of what's expected with a new game in any kind of franchise (except for the windshields thing obviously, can't have that in an FPS!). I'd be bummed if I bought any kind of game that necessitated AI where it wasn't improved or tweaked with each iteration. Especially an iteration that's running on vastly more powerful hardware.
We forgive them in other games because they're generally kept on the same platform where we know the system specifications are being pushed to the limit and compromises have to be made (we can see that in FM4, where different level LODs are used depending on whether it's a TT or full race, the 30fps/60fps mirrors etc.). The problem with a new console is we don't have a reasonable idea of what it's capable of, so we don't know what factors come into play when a feature like night racing is omitted. Is it time? Is it budget? Is it hardware restrictions? My problem is that like I said earlier, Horizon showed us it was possible with a cut in framerate (and they were able to add additional effects like god rays and AA with that sacrifice), so I don't think it's unreasonable to have expected it on vastly superior hardware (even if it isn't as powerful as the PS4 or whatever).
I think the comparison comes from the hangover of them being included with FM4, and the impact they may have had on development of other parts of the game. Sure, they might've been planned from the start, but if, say, 300 man hours are dedicating to implementing it, who's to say that with those hours they couldn't have found a way to eliminate the glare from the roads? Or created an extra track?
I think there's also a certain amount of bitterness coming from the fact that car bowling or whatever conflicts with the "drive real cars around tracks real fast" ethos that the game is going for. When people see that diluted (to an extent), there could be that (perhaps rational, perhaps not) leap to think "If they included that, why couldn't they include X? Shouldn't they have included X instead?".
I'm sorry if it's sounding like I'm trying to pick your post apart or anything. Just trying to offer an alternate perspective, hopefully explaining that it's not just bitterness for the sake of it, that it actually comes from a real place that has personal justification to it
You could say the same thing about any game of a franchise, both Forza and GT are missing lots of features and you can always say : this is great but....... .
As a fan of PGR i think there was many things that could have been added BUT there one main difference between Gotham and Forza and its that Gotham never had a direct competition the way that Forza and GT have, we are always comparing one to the other and asking both the same things.
You are not messuring Need for Speed, Driveclub, PGR, Grid, Dirt, or other games with the same bar.
Like you i was expecting night because Horizon have it and i think its the only real shocking new, im sure theres going to be plenty good new things for this 2 missing features.
They were great BUT from what the interview said you can still do what you did with the storefront (and probably with auction house), it just works in other ways, you can make contents and share it and win money for it.
Don't people always say Forza has arcady(easy) physics? Again, for hardcore you can play PC-sims or GT.
Paladin CL
Member
No, thats what trolls say.
Yeah, that's what I'm taking away from it as well... that they're basically held at gunpoint to a fixed date and having to compromise on certain features in order to make it. Doesn't help that the console they're developing it for is coming under so much derision for things out of Turn 10's control.
I'd love to see them work on a game and take all the time they need to make it. Hell, if Polyphony can get 7 years or whatever to work on something, you'd think MS would sling T10 an extra 12 months here or there.