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Sopranos ending.
- Thread starter TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
- Start date
Maybe a bit clearer just so we can be 100%? Imagine the shock of actually seeing him go.
I'm aware there are so many signs that he died but for me - I choose not to believe them. Goddamn I loved that show and Tony. To me he's still alive and kicking
Moz La Punk
Member
Hahahahaha
Patrick Bateman
Member
The show was mostly from Tony's point of view. He didn't see it coming (as did the viewer) and died.
Camp Freddie
Member
This. It's a fantastic ending.
The obvious implication is that he was shot by MOG and didn't see it coming.
But I really like how they left it at a mere implication, like how Deckard was probably a replicant.
Ending a popular series is extremely hard to do right, but they absolutely nailed it.
I haven´t watched the show in a while, but I remember the majority of the final season is about the war between the gangs, where everything is really heated up. By the end, the war is (apparently) resolved, and Tony relaxes, gets careless (if i remeber correctly). The ending scene is a celebration of the end of the war and Tony lets his guard down because there's no eminent threat. Maybe that's why he doesn't pay attention to the guy.
This is to say that in that last episode his life isn't a living hell. In fact, i think Tony feels peace is here to stay
shadow_shogun
Member
It's pretty obvious how it went down, here's the breakdown. Spoilers for those who haven't seen it:
I've read a lot about this ending, and the interpretation that I find there to be the most evidence for is the notion that no matter what happens in Tony's life, the show has to stop; his life of constant danger is going to continue (or end) regardless of whether or not we're there to see it and our window has to end sometime. A worse show would end things on a resolute note of some kind but that would be doing the reality of Tony's life - constant tension - a disservice. He'll never get to relax until he's dead.
Frankly, however, the only interpretation that strikes me as outright wrong is "he's dead and it's totally unambiguous!". There's plenty of ambiguity. Maybe it's unambiguous to you because you find a certain interpretation so compelling, but there's plenty about it that gives it ambiguity. The conversation with Bobby about death is commonly cited as evidence that he's dead but in the absence of gore (and in the context of the Sopranos) it is equally valid to interpret that as a red herring. The theory that he is unambiguously dead also ignores the fact that the plot had turned away from Tony being killed in the very same episode. Finally, you don't actually see him die so sorry, it's ambiguous.
Frankly, however, the only interpretation that strikes me as outright wrong is "he's dead and it's totally unambiguous!". There's plenty of ambiguity. Maybe it's unambiguous to you because you find a certain interpretation so compelling, but there's plenty about it that gives it ambiguity. The conversation with Bobby about death is commonly cited as evidence that he's dead but in the absence of gore (and in the context of the Sopranos) it is equally valid to interpret that as a red herring. The theory that he is unambiguously dead also ignores the fact that the plot had turned away from Tony being killed in the very same episode. Finally, you don't actually see him die so sorry, it's ambiguous.
Maybe a bit clearer just so we can be 100%? Imagine the shock of actually seeing him go.
I'm aware there are so many signs that he died but for me - I choose not to believe them. Goddamn I loved that show and Tony. To me he's still alive and kicking
Nahh we don't need to see it. It was a bit of a shock for me. I didn't know I was watching the last episode. lol
Indeed. I think a far more ambiguous ending (not necessarily better) would've been a literal cut to credits. If "the show is just supposed to stop eventually" and we're not allowed to be privy to everything in his life afterwards, what then is the point of lingering black? Just cut it off.
blame space
Banned
what about the ducks 🤔
lazy writing not to conclude that story line in the finale.
lazy writing not to conclude that story line in the finale.
Skinny Pete
Banned
I didn't like the ending at first but looking back on the finale it's fine. It got people talking, and we are still talking about it over a decade later.
That's wrong.
He does pay attention. To everything and everyone, he drops his guard briefly when his family chit chats. Before that he was checking out everyone.
When MOB goes into the bathroom, Tony catches it. It's only when his daughter arrives that it all stops.
Earlier, his daughter is implied to have been the reason he fought to stay alive. She's his peace.
So basically, you can think that he either dropped his guard because of his daughter's arrival and got killed, or his daughter arrived and ended all that tension within him.
What has to be pointed out is that Meadow (the daughter)'s arrival is delayed several times and we see her struggling to park. So it proves that her arrival is the reason it ends.
There is no way to be 100% certain what did happen though.
SprachBrooks
Member
One of the best exchanges haha.
elrechazado
Banned
Should have had ducklings walk across the table passing Tony's body. Something super subtle and not ham fisted just like the rat at the end of The Departed
The cut to black doesn't mean anything worthwhile, whether you believe he died or not
Again, this scene is just a music video for don't stop believing, in Chase's own words
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
No, the framing of several shots indicates that Tony is largely unaware of MOG's presence in the bar and him going into the bathroom. It's for the most part after AJ's arrival that he stops being on edge in the scene.
Cracklox
Member
Nah. He's a little on edge, cos u know he Tony Soprano, but he's pretty clearly shown not paying attention to everything like he should (and probably otherwise would) by flipping through duke box records, and looking over the menu a lot. Heck, when MOG walks in, it's right in front of AJ, and because he's more happy to see his son get there, he doesn't even notice him. When MOG is shown kinda nervously sitting at the table looking over his shoulder at where Tony is sitting, again Tony is more interested in family time. It isn't till the guy walks RIGHT in front of Tony that he notices him for the first time, and by that time he more caught up in happy family times.
Regarding Meadow this shot is crucial
Its shows had she not been mucking around trying to park, she would have been sitting exactly in a spot that would have obscured a clear shot from MOG as he comes out the bathroom. It also adds credence to why there was seemingly this valuable time in the last ever scene of one of the greatest tv shows made, dedicated to a girl struggling to park.
Anyway, I thinks its all pretty clear cut, though at time was admittedly a little confused
RustyNails
Member
Yeah he dead.
Sun Bather
Member
Yeah he died for sure. I wasn't sure to begin with, but all it takes is you to pay attention or rewatch to realize.
The real question is: Who killed him/ordered the kill.
Either way it sure left the Jersey crew in a sad sad state.
The real question is: Who killed him/ordered the kill.
Either way it sure left the Jersey crew in a sad sad state.
Cracklox
Member
I think a revenge hit for what happened to Phil Leotardo at the gas pump makes most sense. That was in front of the family, and also sorta ended with him not really able to have an open casket funeral. That sort of stuff is generally against mob rules. A revenge hit on Tony in front of his family is effectively an eye for an eye
But then Tony did make a few enemies over 6 seasons, and it could have been anyone. I think that part is meant to be intentionally vague though. Tony didn't know, so why should we
Sun Bather
Member
Oh yes it's certainly meant to be extremely vague. I read some interesting theories on Paulie being in on it, which I could certainly see and started believing more.
They're dead too.
Didn't you hear? That makes it amazing. Everyone knows that only brilliantly scripted television could make you think your equipment was malfunctioning!
In reality, its a shitty ending (I'll add thats my opinion. A more accurate description would be that its an intentionally AMBIGUOUS ending). A total cop out tacked on to the end of the most well written and brilliantly paced television shows of all time. The fact that such a remarkable piece of work has such a ridiculously out of place wart riiiiiight at the end pushes a lot of people to look for a reason to explain it away or at least make an excuse for it.
But its like all those crazy folks standing looking and marveling over some 'art exhibit' where some random just threw a paint can at a canvas and left a splotch of paint on the page. It isn't sophisticated, it isn't deep, it isn't "over the viewer's head". It's just a fucking cut to black.
Yup. On top of everything else about the way that scene is structured and foreshadowed, it's using a piece of pop culture iconography to make it clear what's going on.
Ninja Scooter
Member
You mean the restaurant scene?
DasPenguin
Member
I feel the same. Gandolfini is the GOAT when it comes to actors that have appeared on tv. Hell he's one of the greatest actors of all time.
TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared
Member
I don't know if it's bad. I like it more now then I did last night. The last scene was so well done.
CD'S BAR
Member
Except it's not just a cut to black. It could've worked even if it had been, but Chase took the time to establish in that scene that the shot that we should be seeing instead of black is Tony's first-person perspective. And that is what he's seeing because he's dead.
That's the one.
Back when I watched it live I was furious. Came around on it very quickly after it happened during the discussion that followed in the days after. Now looking back it's easily my favorite ending to a TV show ever and 2nd place isn't even close. This is one of the only shows I've ever watched a 2nd time from start to finish.
You're right. We're all just making excuses.
This is about as asinine as "the ending with a million different competing interpretations is not ambiguous! He must be dead because of my very specific interpretation of the facts!".
The Chosen One
Member
This.
Basically the whole season setup the equation of 2+7+33-17 =
Just because the ending didn't blurt out the answer doesn't mean the answer is ambiguous. The answer is clearly there if you construct the equation from the entire season of data points.
A good piece of art doesn't need to provide an answer key at the end. It should allow enough space for the viewer to have their experience and discover the conclusion on their own. Some people ignore obvious clues or simply perceive things differently, and that may affect their perception of the ending. Again, it doesn't mean the ending was ambiguous. It's just the "non-hollywood" or "storybook" ending forced people to think on their own about the events that transpired. The ending is actually pretty straight-forward given all the clues from the season, but many viewers struggle to accept because of the attachment they had with Tony or thought there should have been a grand-shootout. People's attachment and expectations made them blind to the obvious.
PhantomZone
Member
Personally feel he was whacked, but love the alternate takes. The ending is what YOU feel it should be.
This thread is insane with the number of people claiming to have definitely witnessed a particular outcome.
Its intentionally vague, yo. Yes, Tony is probably going to die. Not knowing when, not having any of the answers, especially as audience members, mirrors the same feeling of anxiety and uncertainty that led Tony to have a panic attack and set the dramatic arc of The Sopranos in motion back in season one.
Its intentionally vague, yo. Yes, Tony is probably going to die. Not knowing when, not having any of the answers, especially as audience members, mirrors the same feeling of anxiety and uncertainty that led Tony to have a panic attack and set the dramatic arc of The Sopranos in motion back in season one.
If that were the case it would be simple to just say "yeah, he is dead" or "no, he isn't dead" but he won't because there is no deeper meaning to the scene other than "don't stop believing", which happens to be the answer he actually does give every time he is asked. There is no right answer because he didn't think it through, not because he intentionally created a mystery
https://www.theatlantic.com/enterta...ust-ruined-the-finale-of-the-sopranos/390879/
I like to think Tony is dead because that would be the fitting end that Chase didn't bother to actually write
RoninChaos
Member
Agreed. And at that point I don't know who would have been left to take him out.
OG Shaka Zulu
Member
The last family death I ended up skipping the wake and attending the funeral, which ended up being closed casket. Now that I think about it, I'm not sure whether or not my uncle is dead since I never saw his corpse. Its open to interpretation.