HyperBitHero
Member
If it doesn't sell, capcom will see it as "No one cares about DMC, time to can it"
If it does sell, capcom will see it as "They want more of this Dante!"
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Why DmC's Dante is a Bad Character (Video)
- Thread starter HyperBitHero
- Start date
If it doesn't sell, capcom will see it as "No one cares about DMC, time to can it"
If it does sell, capcom will see it as "They want more of this Dante!"
Glass Rebel
Member
For all the wrong reasons...
sublimit
Banned
I wouldn't think they would can a franchise as big as DMC but then i remembered Onimusha. :/
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
You could have thought of Megaman first. But then thats just another symptom of how far theyve erased him.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
Er...no. I'm pretty sure it was legitimately funny.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Well produced video.. good effort. But I disagree with the message.
DmC Dante isn't objectively bad. He's a young punk hooligan instead of an aged metalhead. They were both one-dimensional characters. If new Dante is "just bad"... well, I'm sure a similar argument could have been made for old Dante.
The biggest problem is that Nerds Hate Remakes. Yeah people bitch about new Dante... but you'll see the exact same bitching whenever any kind of remake with drastic changes comes along.
I'm sympathetic to not liking the new direction. But arguments of "he's just bad" is fannish hyperbole.
He was an outdated character in 2001 when he was new, IMO. It all went hand in hand with how Japan just discovered metal in the 2000s or whatever. Original Dante would have been a cutting edge character in an early 80s movie.
DmC Dante isn't objectively bad. He's a young punk hooligan instead of an aged metalhead. They were both one-dimensional characters. If new Dante is "just bad"... well, I'm sure a similar argument could have been made for old Dante.
The biggest problem is that Nerds Hate Remakes. Yeah people bitch about new Dante... but you'll see the exact same bitching whenever any kind of remake with drastic changes comes along.
I'm sympathetic to not liking the new direction. But arguments of "he's just bad" is fannish hyperbole.
He was an outdated character in 2001 when he was new, IMO. It all went hand in hand with how Japan just discovered metal in the 2000s or whatever. Original Dante would have been a cutting edge character in an early 80s movie.
eXistor
Member
I don't even like the DMC series and have only played through 1, but this is a prequel right? Isn't this "new" Dante supposed to be like this? He comes off as cool and bad-ass in the original games from what I've seen, but here he's younger and still a rough version of what he's to become. It's like this Dante is the Sex Pistols and older Dante is Bad Religion.
Again, this comes from someone who really doesn't know anything about DMC, but this is what it comes across as to me.
Again, this comes from someone who really doesn't know anything about DMC, but this is what it comes across as to me.
This is just ridiculous. You haven't even played the game and you're making videos of why the character is bad, based on random clips you've seen on the internet? Why should anyone take your video seriously?
Although not the exactly the same thing, i will just leave this here:
http://i.imgur.com/MpguI.jpg
Although not the exactly the same thing, i will just leave this here:
http://i.imgur.com/MpguI.jpg
Buckethead
Banned
Good video.
I think his attitude is supposed to be rebellious or something but he comes off as a spoiled, bratty kid.
His looks certainly add to the latter.
I think his attitude is supposed to be rebellious or something but he comes off as a spoiled, bratty kid.
His looks certainly add to the latter.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Think you're jumping the gun a bit just since we don't have the entire game to give us a complete look at the new Dante (not that I'm thrilled with DINO either), but it's still a well-made video and your other character insights make for a good listen.
Subscribe'd.
Subscribe'd.
When you have a couple hours worth of videos and previews to go off I don't think it's ridiculous to start criticizing major elements of a game, but I do feel the video is too open-and-shut along with some subjective opinions on Ninja Theory at this point in time.
It seems like it was made to sound like a dumb argument on purpose. I mean the demon throws up at the end.
Buckethead
Banned
RE: People saying "you haven't played the game"
That's the point of knee jerk reactions. It's just as silly to say you shouldn't criticize a character because you haven't played the game as it is to say you shouldn't criticize the graphics on a game because you haven't played the final version.
We're talking about the here and now and what we think.
You talk about things, they may end up wrong, life goes on.
That's the point of knee jerk reactions. It's just as silly to say you shouldn't criticize a character because you haven't played the game as it is to say you shouldn't criticize the graphics on a game because you haven't played the final version.
We're talking about the here and now and what we think.
You talk about things, they may end up wrong, life goes on.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's exactly the impression I get too... but I think it's intentional, and I don't think it's a bad thing.
I agree.....
Ventilaator
Banned
Oh what the hell @5:25
Over half of the lifebar and SSS ranking (by doing the exact same attack) without the boss even moving? What?
Over half of the lifebar and SSS ranking (by doing the exact same attack) without the boss even moving? What?
sublimit
Banned
You are certainly right but i was a bigger fan of Onimusha than Megaman,sorry. :/
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
This is not a prequel.
HyperBitHero
Member
I'm thinking of doing King Bohan next. I mentioned him in this video, so it would be a nice lead in.
eXistor
Member
Ok I looked it up, it's an "alternate reality" but it's still a younger Dante is my point.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It's so weird because I don't remember anyone particularly loving the character in 2001. He was just a pseudo-badass avatar to deliver some crazy action. A decade later and he's the sacred cow we need to protect from a re-imagining? I'm honestly shocked.
Wibblewozzer
Member
Which is why I followed my comment about the game with comments about my thoughts on the character of Dante and this new interpretation. I've beaten the first game and have played bits of the third and fourth titles and there was nothing about the character of Dante from those games that makes me lament them trying a different direction.
I've actually enjoyed the characters in the Ninja Theory games I've played previously (both Heavenly Sword and Enslaved) so I honestly have little concern how they'll do in that department on the game. Their gameplay was always where things weren't always top-notch so that's what I'd be more worried about for now.
He's making assumptions based on the few hours he has, which in my opinion is bad.
Come back and do a new video when you've played the game. It doesn't bother me if you do or don't like the character, but judging when you don't even have the whole story is ridiculous. You just come across as a fanboy with too much time on his hands, judging by your other videos you're actually an intelligent person with a great way of looking at games and their characters.
chriskun
Member
As others have said, this video is purely based on speculation derived from very small slices of an unreleased game. It's really seeming unfair how people are judging this game now, it just can't win. If its different than the original games its fucking up the formula, if its too close it's "pandering". What a crock of shit, wait for the fucking game to come out.
It definitely feels like this is a bit early to make such sweeping claims, but I do agree that there's something about the new version that is unlikable, for me personally; facial expressions, voice? I don't know what it is.
One thing I think you got wrong, is that I don't think they changed their minds at all about the white hair on the devil trigger. I think that was kind of obviously their plan all along. It's a prequel about him first discovering the full extent of his powers and who he is. Even though it's a reboot, you're supposed to get the sense that every time he goes devil trigger, he's one small step closer to becoming the Dante we all know from the previous games. If for some crazy reason Ninja Theory makes another of these, I'd expect Dante to have full white hair by the end and be similar to the older Dante.
You're right though, the dialogue is a special brand of bad, and the character comes off as smug and mean-spirited instead of cool and playful. You had some good points, but it's just way too early to say, especially about the story.
For sure though, the environments and the platforming look extremely good. I guess we'll see how it all turns out. While the whole Fox News thing is kind of stupid, I'm open to giving it a shot. I'm open to seeing someone criticize obesity and fast food. It may completely fall flat, but we'll have to see.
One thing I think you got wrong, is that I don't think they changed their minds at all about the white hair on the devil trigger. I think that was kind of obviously their plan all along. It's a prequel about him first discovering the full extent of his powers and who he is. Even though it's a reboot, you're supposed to get the sense that every time he goes devil trigger, he's one small step closer to becoming the Dante we all know from the previous games. If for some crazy reason Ninja Theory makes another of these, I'd expect Dante to have full white hair by the end and be similar to the older Dante.
You're right though, the dialogue is a special brand of bad, and the character comes off as smug and mean-spirited instead of cool and playful. You had some good points, but it's just way too early to say, especially about the story.
For sure though, the environments and the platforming look extremely good. I guess we'll see how it all turns out. While the whole Fox News thing is kind of stupid, I'm open to giving it a shot. I'm open to seeing someone criticize obesity and fast food. It may completely fall flat, but we'll have to see.
KO Traveling Hobo
Member
He's always been a well liked character, I think. Not intelligently written or deep or anything, but likeable. His cameo in SMT: Nocturne as early as 2004 is indicative of this.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Make sure to play that full many hours long terrible game with that terrible character you dont like the look of before you can remark upon how terrible you find it to be HyperBitHero!
Basing any kind of opinion on years worth of PR, trailers, gamplay video, entire level playthroughs, and story cutscenes selected to show to the public what the game is about is just foolishness.
Hail the sparse Only News Facts and Official Topics future of NeoGAF that Dennis Dyack always longed for.
Basing any kind of opinion on years worth of PR, trailers, gamplay video, entire level playthroughs, and story cutscenes selected to show to the public what the game is about is just foolishness.
Hail the sparse Only News Facts and Official Topics future of NeoGAF that Dennis Dyack always longed for.
TwoDurans
"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
Show me something that existed a few years ago that a game company is changing and I'll show you a million people who never played the original but are pissed about the change.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
As you state it, yes, he was well liked. I liked his Nocturne cameo too.
But I would assert... not thought about too much. Not a character that people write fanfics about, or get tattoos of. Just a badass avatar who deals damage.
I just never thought a reboot of this character would be seen as problematic. It's like people raging about re-imagining of Viewtiful Joe or Leon Kennedy or something.
well said
I suppose I should know by now that yesterday's fun-but-not-serious entertainment property is tomorrow's sacred cow worthy of a million online nerd battles
It's one thing to say you don't like a character. It's another to dissect a game and basically review it, breaking down the dialogue, characters, and story before it even comes out.
HyperBitHero
Member
Of course I'll be playing it though. It's my destiny now.
The Return of
Banned
As you state it, yes, he was well liked. I liked his Nocturne cameo too.
But I would assert... not thought about too much. Not a character that people write fanfics about, or get tattoos of. Just a badass avatar who deals damage.
I just never thought a reboot of this character would be seen as problematic. It's like people raging about re-imagining of Viewtiful Joe or Leon Kennedy or something.
hahahaha......well guess what...
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
don't... DON'T... I don't need any links, thanks.
Is it me or does the animation in gameplay look really janky compared to previous titles?
In terms of story, it looks like they tried to combine more edginess and the camp from previous entries, and the end result is... uh, not pleasant. I saw lots of gratuitous swearing in the worst possible way.
In terms of story, it looks like they tried to combine more edginess and the camp from previous entries, and the end result is... uh, not pleasant. I saw lots of gratuitous swearing in the worst possible way.
Exactly. I would imagine that Ninja Theory are keeping their cards close to the chest on the reason the new Dante is how he is. The game will probably contain story to explain why he's a jerk and obviously NT would not want the story reason leaked this far ahead of release.
If it contains no story reason for the character being how you perceived him in these previews and he's just plain old stupid then by all means rip him a new one.
It's just that main fanbase is how old now? At least 20 years old and older - who the hell wants to suffer through Dante's angsty teenager period? It's like growing up all over again, we are past that.
The dialogue is as snappy and clever as Disney Channel drama - it's cringe worthy and catering towards MTV teenagers who get excited by any "fuck you" thrown with attitude.
Woo! "Fuck You"! He's so cool! Give him a cigarette and now all these angsty tumblr whores have someone who can they identify with. Seriously, showing government as evil, and all this BS -what's new.
Then again, they cater for the new audience, but it's a shame they just show a middle finger to the old fans and victimise Antoniades.
I just can't wait for Sterling to give this game a 9.5 and preach about gamers for the good measure.
The dialogue is as snappy and clever as Disney Channel drama - it's cringe worthy and catering towards MTV teenagers who get excited by any "fuck you" thrown with attitude.
Woo! "Fuck You"! He's so cool! Give him a cigarette and now all these angsty tumblr whores have someone who can they identify with. Seriously, showing government as evil, and all this BS -what's new.
Then again, they cater for the new audience, but it's a shame they just show a middle finger to the old fans and victimise Antoniades.
I just can't wait for Sterling to give this game a 9.5 and preach about gamers for the good measure.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Videogames are not defendants in court and entitled to some "innocent before proven guilty" mandate. Promotional materials are intended to show why people would want this game and like these characters, and if everything shown thus far elicits this opinion piece, theres nothing stopping people from forming in depth analysis of what has been shown and sharing that.
If Dante is suddenly an entirely different character at points of the game we've not been shown, that'd also be poor and erratic characterisation.
The wait and see crowd is vague defence at its finest: of course the game is being judged on whats been shown. Using the theoretical unknowns as the core argument for combating these negative opinions speaks volumes.
Uhm, sorry but no.
This video shows things from the initial reveal, contains old new Dante and new new Dante as well, while parts of this footage are not representative of what DmC will be about anymore.
Also, if you see bad trailers of a good movie, that is BAD marketing, and a GOOD movie.
If you see a movie that has a nice trailer but is boring, that is GOOD marketing of a BAD movie.
The movie does not become bad if the trailers are bad or inconsistent. It is like judging a book by its cover - literally. Or based on what is written on the example page. You can do that, but judgements based on partial information will be less useful than judgements based on full information. Simple, really.
Also, THIS.
Personally I'm really effing tired of gamers being demonised by the game producers (I feed them, I do feel entitled, hate me) and journos who are nothing more than more entitled gamers.
(I'm still curious about the gameplay but this is where NT is the least competent.)
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Movie trailers are renowned for giving good movies bad traction, which is why you then wait for full non-spliced and voice-over'd clips of the movie in question to judge. Guess what we've seen of DmC. Yeah thats right, full uninterrupted storyline cutscenes. Wah wah.
From this video, HBH shows the old nuDante in chains clip from the first reveal with the proviso that maybe nuDante is just an asshole because he was tortured all his life. Potential explanation of the games plot sure, but at the end of the day they made the choice to personify nuDante as a prick, regardless of how the plot plays out to support that.
This is kind of a segue but I had the same thing happen to me with Duke Nukem Forever. I have fond memories of Duke Nukem 64 and Zero Hour and wanted to experience something similar. Now by no means is Duke an excellently written character, he's a stereotype of 70s action heroes with a love of girls with a massive helping of cheese. But he never swore (at least not to my knowledge), and when the first trailer released what with Duke "enjoying his company" and dropping f-bombs everywhere I knew how badly mangled this game and this character was gonna be. It was such a massive departure that coloured him in a misogynistic and failing-ly edgy light that completely switched me off. That's not who Duke is.
Bringing it back to here, when Dante dropped the first f-bomb I was like "That's not who Dante is". I get that it's a reboot but it might as well be an entirely new IP because besides a few similar names I don't what the hell this game is or what it's trying to be. And it appears Ninja Theory (or their Capcpom overlords) are trying to double-back on their darker and edgier tilt to try and bring back the previous series' humour and style. The tone of the game is all over the place because story's are being mangled to fit into a new mold and that shit ain't pretty. This game is a completely lost cause short of a complete redesign because in trying to reboot the franchise, which was the healthiest it's ever been, they've destroyed absolutely everything that makes DMC DMC. That's not who Dante is.
Might've went a bit off topic there.
Bringing it back to here, when Dante dropped the first f-bomb I was like "That's not who Dante is". I get that it's a reboot but it might as well be an entirely new IP because besides a few similar names I don't what the hell this game is or what it's trying to be. And it appears Ninja Theory (or their Capcpom overlords) are trying to double-back on their darker and edgier tilt to try and bring back the previous series' humour and style. The tone of the game is all over the place because story's are being mangled to fit into a new mold and that shit ain't pretty. This game is a completely lost cause short of a complete redesign because in trying to reboot the franchise, which was the healthiest it's ever been, they've destroyed absolutely everything that makes DMC DMC. That's not who Dante is.
Might've went a bit off topic there.
Hours Left
Member
I'm not a fan of Dino, but my only real problem with him is that he's supposed to be "Dante". (Alternate universe, I know.)
He's not Dante. If you are gonna make a new character Capcom, then make a new character. Don't slap some white hair on him and expect people to embrace Dino based on the merits of another character.
He's not Dante. If you are gonna make a new character Capcom, then make a new character. Don't slap some white hair on him and expect people to embrace Dino based on the merits of another character.
I shouldn't laugh. Nicely played though.
KittenMaster
Member
That doesn't make money though.
Capcom is doing this because they know it will be successful and will probably bring in more people than are alienated.