Monty Mole
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What is the Best Game by Rare?
- Thread starter Archtreyz
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mrmickfran
Member
Banjo-Kazooie
It was either that or Diddy's Kong Quest.
It was either that or Diddy's Kong Quest.
this. i feels it's one thats aged the best from the n64 era too.
Omnii-chan
Member
I can't imagine how salty you are about Goldeneye HD then.
I'd say Banjo. Brilliant world, music, characters, exploration. Best all around package and has aged well.
But if Sea of Thieves becomes a succes they're just gonna become a SoT factory and as a Rare fan that's not appealing at all to me, just like seeing them as a Kinect Sports factory wasn't. Sorry. When they get back to making Rare games I'll start rooting for them again (something which I don't expect to happen. Wouldn't be surprised if they are closed after SoT flops).
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Genuinely hope a Viva Piñata 3 is in the cards one day, as prior titles are up there with Perfect Dark for me. All it really needs is a bigger garden - which in turn would allow for more creativity with regards to making your own garden - since the original two games were held back on a technical level by the Xbox 360's RAM. They could even keep the graphics borderline identical for all I care, because visually it still looks rather nice despite its age and their efforts would be better spent on adding more to the existing content as well as incorporating more quality-of-life tweaks. Similar to what they've done with Trouble in Paradise, in other words. A 'Play Anywhere' PC port would be great too, now that Microsoft ditched GFWL.
Know it's nothing but a pipe dream, so oh well...
Know it's nothing but a pipe dream, so oh well...
daTRUballin
Member
Well, I guess it all depends on your preference. Would you rather Rare become an SoT factory, or would you rather see them shut down and gone forever? I personally think the former would be the better option as I've already explained earlier in the thread. At least Rare could potentially make the stuff we want if they're still around.
Also, frankly I think it's ridiculous how SoT can't be considered a Rare game for whatever weird reason and that it's no different from Kinect Sports in this regard. I guess everything Rare does has to be a platformer or it's not a real Rare game, right?
The thing you have to realize is that Rare will never satisfy your needs no matter what they do. Even if they would've announced Banjo Threeie instead of SoT, you'd still be complaining about how it's not like the old games and how Banjo has been ruined in some way. I think this is Rare's biggest problem. Being an ancient studio like Rare means you gotta deal with the cynical and nostalgic diehards who will never have their nostalgia satisfied and will just proclaim that every new thing Rare does won't live up to their old stuff. The same thing happens to other developers who get to be as old (or even older) as Rare. It's just the way things will always be unfortunately. Nintendo is one of the few exceptions, but even they face the same problem from certain groups of gamers.
sixteen-bit
Member
DKC2 rocks. That would probably be my choice.
codswallop
Member
Snake Rattle n Roll
momshotdad
Member
Has to be either Conker's Bad Fur Day, Banjo Kazooie (1), or Viva Pinata
nephilimdj
Member
Conker
Perfect dark HD if u include it
Perfect dark HD if u include it
I don't want people to lose their jobs, but as far as games I'm interested in it doesn't make much difference either way. Don't care about service games and hate that it's something they could be stuck on forever, if it actually becomes popular.
That's not true at all. I've loved most of the things they've done on console in the MS years up to and including Perfect Dark Zero. I might not like Nuts and Bolts, but that's due to them changing it into something completely different. In contrast I love Yooka-Laylee (see my comments in the OT).
CloudStrife_ca
Member
My personal fav is Goldeneye.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Had they announced Banjo-Threeie (playable offline, platformer, retail release), I'd have sung the praises for MS and Rare. I would definitely not complain. Also, my claim that Banjo-Kazooie is the best western developed game is not a nostalgic one, I have played the game numerous times since release (2016 the last time) and I maintain that it has the best level design I have ever seen.
EDIT: Regarding the "Rare game" thing: All of their SNES / N64 games were challenging, gameplay focused games. From different genres, not just platformers. Granted, I think their greatest expertise was 3D platformers, but you wouldn't see me complaining about a "Diddy Kong Racing 2" or Blast Corps 2 either. Sea of Thieves in a sense captures the atmosphere, but not the gameplay qualities of Rare games. This is of course rooted in it being a social experience thingy instead of a traditional game.
daTRUballin
Member
Not that I don't believe you when you say you'd be happy if Banjo Threeie was announced. I think most Rare fans would be, but let's not forget the kind of treatment Rare has gotten from fans over the last 15 years. Every game they've released on Xbox consoles has been dismissed and ignored. And I'm not trying to defend today's Rare or anything. They're definitely not what they used to be, but I'm not going to deny the fact that the fans have a lot to do with Rare's problems over the last 15 years. I'm not saying the fans are entirely at fault of course (Rare hasn't been making the kinds of games that we want from them for many years now after all), but nostalgia has been and always will be getting in the way of things unfortunately, whether justified or not.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
It's hard to say though, because after Kameo (which I think is the most traditional Rare game under MS and a fantastic game as well) they did a lot of stuff that deviated greatly from what they used to do. Pinatas were simulations (albeit very good one), Nuts & Bolts was a major slap in the face of platforming fans (though a good game in its own rights) and the Kinect games were casual oriented, now SoT is this strange online thing.
AdmiralMikey
Member
If we're speaking strictly regarding games that still hold up and are fun to play today, I would vote for Banjo-Kazooie, with Donkey Kong Country (or DKC2, if that's your preference) taking 2nd place.
daTRUballin
Member
Exactly. Like I said, Rare has been making games that are very different from what we expect from them, but that doesn't mean their games need to be ignored or that they aren't "real" Rare games.
In fact, this has always been a thing with Rare. They've always tried new things and have always tried to innovate. Sometimes this worked out for them, sometimes it didn't. Their NES games were very different from their Spectrum games, their SNES/N64 games were very different from their NES games, their Xbox games are very different from their N64 games, etc. So I sometimes find it kinda strange when people choose to call Rare dead when they try new things. That's what they've always done for Pete's sake! But I guess it's because most people know about them for their SNES/N64 era and only want those types of games from them.
There was also a lot of bitterness from Nintendo fans during the early years of Microsoft's and Rare's partnership which definitely contributed to their "reputation" among gamers, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms I'm not going into right now.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Kameo and Grabbed by the Ghoulies were still in vein of their SNES / N64 games though, as were Banjo Grunty's Revenge and Banjo Pilot, as well as the new content in the DKC games (obviously). Rare is not so well-known for their pre-SNES stuff and I also think this is for a good reason. So for many Rare fans it's probably just "they made obscure stuff" -> "they made awesome games for a decade" -> "they made obscure stuff".
MegaManTrigger
Banned
I don't think that's a fair statement to make. Part of the problem with the Xbox is that the original didn't exactly sell best given it was MS's first entry into the console market, and even when you bring up the 360, some of Rare's games were vastly overlooked in favour of better games within that generation: Perfect Dark Zero comes to mind considering just how much was lost in translation between the original game to PDZ in addition to 360 being the generation of shooters, Conker Live and Reloaded being contrasted and viewed negatively in relation to Bad Fur Day because of censorship issues, and games like Grabbed by the Ghoulies and Kameo were pretty much forgotten in the community. That being said, I think the big picture problem points back to the loss of talent that Rare had to go through in many instances, whether it was declining sales and interest during the post-MS buyout or disagreeing with the MS buyout in the first place.
So when people blame the fans for their nostalgia, I think that's pretty one-sided and unfair to say given that we've seen many companies handle their IPs well throughout the years despite the fact that people prefer a single game in the series or what have you.
daTRUballin
Member
Of course, Rare definitely shares some of the blame here......Well, probably most of it. Like I said, they haven't been listening to their fanbase and haven't been making the games Rare fans would want them to make for years now. And they sure as hell haven't handled their IPs well at all, save for Killer Instinct. But even that wasn't handled by Rare themselves. If it wasn't for Double Helix, KI probably would've never been revived, knowing Rare.
While Rare shares a lot of the blame, there's no denying that nostalgia will always get in the way of things for a lot of gamers. Sea of Thieves is the perfect example of this. During the Kinect era, everybody screamed at Rare to stop making casual games and to start making "real" games again. And guess what happens when Rare gets back to making real games? Nobody cares. Do you see any hype for SoT at all? I sure don't see any. You know why? Because it's not Banjo Threeie. Because it's not Conker 2. Because it's not Perfect Dark 2, etc.
I would've wanted to see Banjo Threeie as much as the next person, but that doesn't mean SoT needs to be ignored. And it doesn't mean that Rare is "dead" because they're making a new IP. People reacted the exact same way back when Viva Piñata was announced. Know why? Because it wasn't an old N64 IP. I, for one, am glad Rare is back to making non-casual games and look forward to see what they have in the future, whether it's new or old IPs. Of course I'd love to see all these old franchises return, but I just hope gamers won't ignore SoT just like they've ignored all of Rare's other Xbox games. They definitely need the success, especially if they're owned by a trigger-happy company who can potentially shut them down whenever they want to.
EDIT: I'm not saying that gamers should blindly trust Rare with everything they do of course. At this moment in time, they're essentially an unproven studio employing a bunch of new people. They haven't released a core game since 2008 and for the last 7 years they've only made Kinect games and a collection of old games. They definitely have a lot to prove when it comes to whether they can make good games or not, but I think people should give SoT a chance. For all we know, this could be Rare's last chance. Who knows?
Nuts & Bolts was a really fun game for what it was. I just wish it wasn't Banjo so we could have both.
It has to be Goldeneye 64 for me so many memories attached to it and that time. It was my second game on the N64 i got it as a present for my birthday from my stepdad(who died some years ago). It was my first shooter and probably the 5th game or so i played back then.
Was stuck on the 2nd level for months because i was too young to read English.
Good times.
Was stuck on the 2nd level for months because i was too young to read English.
Good times.
MegaManTrigger
Banned
Nostalgia will always get in the way, but the key is to work your way around that. It's why people shit on Nintendo for creating and developing Federation Force after 6 or so years of no main series Metroid game, and why people consider Nuts and Bolts a terrible game because of the bait and switch from hype and marketing suggesting Banjo-Threeie was in development (iirc started from that video of Banjo and Kazooie running from various characters and then basically changed directions post-MS buyout), though I maintain that Nuts and Bolts as a whole is a very flawed and underwhelming game beyond just nostalgia. Anyways, the point being that had Rare kept a steady stream of main series releases of their IP, no one would be complaining about Viva Piñata (tbh unwarranted because the game is actually pretty fun), Kinect Games, Sea of Thieves or any of their other experimental games. Had Nuts and Bolts been a side game while Threeie was in development, the most you'll see is people complaining about the merits of the game instead of the whole "in-name" stuff. Instead, people see what Rare is doing as being tone-deaf and ignoring what they want for "weird" directions, despite the possibility that MS might be the reason why Rare is handcuffed into doing what they're doing.
Gamers not ignoring Sea of Thieves will have to be based on whether the game itself is actually compelling enough for people to play, but it doesn't necessarily mean that no love for other IPs = fuck SoT mentality from fans. It could be the case that people are not into MMOs/co-op games, the pirate aesthetic, what have you. Basically, it's too many variables to simply pinpoint nostalgia as a key reason. Plus, you have the issue that it's on an Xbox One which user base pales in comparison to the PS4, so you wonder how consistent support from both consumers and developers will be throughout its release period.
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