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WSJ : PS4 "may allow users to compete against others using different hardware"

F

Felix Lighter

Member
Crossplatform play is a dream of mine. I have no hope for cross console play but cross PC/console play would be amazing for my situation. The streaming solution isn't quite what I had in mind but I'm willing to have an open mind and see how it works out. I would much rather that the native PC client would use the same servers as the native PS4 client the way Portal 2 and the handful of crossplatform GFWL games work. A major push for this next gen would make me ecstatic. Make it something people expect and the industry will see a major change.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
And just for the new page - the author reiterates the cloud service is for PS3 games. No word to that effect about PS4 games.
:(
 
O

onQ123

Member
Ruzzle on PS4 through PlayStation Mobile played with the Touchpad or PlayStation Move vs people on Facebook & mobile devices.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
gofreak said:
And just for the new page - the author reiterates the cloud service is for PS3 games. No word to that effect about PS4 games.
:(
Click to expand...

I think you can transform that "PS3 games" to PS1, PS2, PS3 and select PSN titles. AAA PS4 games will still be disc / direct download only at first. IMO.
 
P

PsionBolt

Member
Mildly interesting. Cross-play is hardly a new feature, but it is still fairly uncommon. I suppose maybe some kind of standard infrastructure would help more devs attempt it? Who knows. I do look forward to a future where I can play my Steam games on a portable.
 
Z

Zutroy

Member
Maybe it will be a PlayStation app for smart TVs to stream and play PS3 games. Pretty much every smart TV has bluetooth right? Easy to hook up the controller.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Interfectum said:
I think you can transform that "PS3 games" to PS1, PS2, PS3 and select PSN titles. AAA PS4 games will still be disc / direct download only at first. IMO.
Click to expand...

Yes, probably.

I just hope they're smart about PS4 licensing terms wrt cloud possibilities into the future...

I think the sooner they go all in with it, with PS4 stuff also, the better. If the service proves popular I imagine publishers will demand that their PS4 content be made available that way too. Afterall, why limit the opportunity for making money on your new platform vs your old one?

Anyways, yeah, I can see protectionist Sony kicking in and holding PS4 stuff off for a while.
 
L

lmpaler

Member
If this does pull through I hope it will finally add cross platform with PC and PS3. My prayers were almost answered with CS:GO, but alas it didn't happen.
 
O

Omikaru

Member
Interfectum said:
I think you can transform that "PS3 games" to PS1, PS2, PS3 and select PSN titles. AAA PS4 games will still be disc / direct download only at first. IMO.
Click to expand...

It makes absolutely no sense for them to spend resources streaming all PS1 and PS2 games. PS4 should be more than capable of emulating them via software.

Edit: I should clarify that it may be a feature, but I don't think they'll expect people to stream these games to PS4 (i.e. offer it as the only way) when it would more cost effective to have them running on the hardware.
 
O

orioto

Good Art™
I've been thinking about that and it's certainly a little too early, but let's say there is, indeed, a future where you can play PS4 games without a ps4 (without the iq obviously). I wonder, would that be a good business model ?

Obviously that wouldn't help the hardware to sell (but after all the hardware loses money in the first years) but that would have other benefits, such as allow devs to directly target a massive market with a PS4 game. And if in the end, people prefer to buy a cheap and profitable PS3 to play PS4 games, well.. why not after tall.

Of course all that would work with some kind of PSN+Gakai subscription. With a potential future like that, the subscription would be more profitable than the actual hardware u guess.
 
P

patsu

Member
gofreak said:
I asked the author about whether PS4 games would be on the cloud feature; he deferred to his earlier article.

@gofreak_ie We said in earlier story streaming service is designed to use current PS3 titles, new games on disks

Now, I assume new games will be on more than just disks - digital download is a no brainer - but for now I will give up ground on the idea of PS4 games being streamed :p It's odd though, because PS3 would be the more difficult of the two platforms' content to accomodate, presumably...
Click to expand...

Hmm... It should be easier to stream PS4 games for various reasons.

If Sony block it, it would be more to build PS4 install base. PS4 Gaikai should make its way to us when PS4 have reached critical mass. Imagine when the developers make PS4 games and suddenly they can address a larger market than PS4 install base. If Sony is successful, it would be hard to exclude PS4 in new releases.
 
K

kirblar

Member
I'm immediately thinking back to Portal 2 and the PS3/PC integration here - could this be related to some of the things we've been seeing out of Valve recently?
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
gofreak said:
Yes, probably.

I just hope they're smart about PS4 licensing terms wrt cloud possibilities into the future...

I think the sooner they go all in with it, with PS4 stuff also, the better. If the service proves popular I imagine publishers will demand that their PS4 content be made available that way too. Afterall, why limit the opportunity for making money on your new platform vs your old one?

Anyways, yeah, I can see protectionist Sony kicking in and holding PS4 stuff off for a while.
Click to expand...

I could see by the end of next-gen we'll see what we are seeing now with day and date direct downloads.

"Uncharted 6 available this fall on disc, PSN direct download and Gaikai day and date."
 
C

Corto

Member
These leaks seem too good to be true. The PS4 games limitation could be Sony/3rd parties being cautious testing the waters first with legacy titles and then going all-in in a near future if that proves successful. Even so this is pretty revolutionary stuff. I'm hyped.
 
yurinka

yurinka

Member
maquiladora said:
OP stuff

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323764804578311993152891294.html
Click to expand...

Great news, sounds awesome. Almost as good as your Amiga avatar.

Do you want to play them locally without lag and with proper controls : buy a PS4.

Do you want to buy and play them elsewhere and don't want to buy a PS4? They will be happy charging you for the PS+ (or similar) fee and the games. And once you get several PS4 games you'll want to get the console to improver your experience.
 
famfrit

famfrit

Member
gofreak said:
So do they mean...games streamed on other devices? Playing with people playing via other devices?

If so...hype hype hype.

They make it sound like PS3 games on the cloud service is there to have 'a broader range' from day one, rather than just exclusively PS3 games...
Click to expand...

hell yeah !!!!!!!!!!!

Sony give us Wild Arms/Arc the Lad VS Demons Souls and i pay $600 for PS4 !
 
F

Futureman

Member
Omikaru said:
It makes absolutely no sense for them to spend resources streaming all PS1 and PS2 games. PS4 should be more than capable of emulating them via software.

Edit: I should clarify that it may be a feature, but I don't think they'll expect people to stream these games to PS4 (i.e. offer it as the only way) when it would more cost effective to have them running on the hardware.
Click to expand...

I think they want this streaming service on more than PS4. TVs, phones, tablets. Would make sense to get as much content as possible on there.
 
O

Omikaru

Member
gofreak said:
But there's a much bigger market than those who'll own PS4...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I edited my post to clarify my thoughts on that. I thought of that just after I clicked "post".

I suppose it could be a feature, but I don't think Sony will expect users to stream their PS1 and PS2 games to PS4 when they can run on the hardware. Chances are you buy it on PSN and that gives you a downloaded version for PS4 that doesn't put any strain on their cloud services platform, and also a version that runs in the cloud for devices like tablets and such. With cloud saving, you could probably move your saves for those games between cloud and local with ease, if it isn't automatic (which I expect it will be).

That said, I'm very skeptical about the market and feasibility of cloud gaming whatsoever. There are a lot better ways of doing cloud-based gaming than running it all on a server and beaming video down to the device, and when we're entering an age where we'll be using devices more sensitive to latency (Oculus Rift, for example), it seems silly to abstract the entirety of game processing to a server miles away.
 
P

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I'm beginning to think Planetside 2 is going to be front and centre with the PS4, much in the same way Warhawk was.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
Interfectum said:
I could see by the end of next-gen we'll see what we are seeing now with day and date direct downloads.

"Uncharted 6 available this fall on disc, PSN direct download and Gaikai day and date."
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think it's inevitable.

On Wednesday they'll discuss PS4, and discuss their cloud service, delivering PS1/PS2/PS3 content to a range of devices via cloud. Sort of angle the cloud service also as a way of promoting Playstation and the better experiences of PS4 to that wider audience also. If they do a multiplayer demo using various devices it'll probably be something like Killzone 3 or The Last of Us rather than Killzone PS4 ;)

Later they'll start trickling PS4 content onto that service too.

I wish it was all there from the start though :p
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
gofreak said:
Yes, probably.

I just hope they're smart about PS4 licensing terms wrt cloud possibilities into the future...

I think the sooner they go all in with it, with PS4 stuff also, the better. If the service proves popular I imagine publishers will demand that their PS4 content be made available that way too. Afterall, why limit the opportunity for making money on your new platform vs your old one?

Anyways, yeah, I can see protectionist Sony kicking in and holding PS4 stuff off for a while.
Click to expand...
They still need to provide an incentive to buy the PS4 hardware though - so it makes sense to keep PS4 disc and download only.

Without the hardware sales there are no software sales; without the software sales there are no royalties.

Unless you're saying they forgo royalty revenue and their more traditional model and instead try to replace it with their new Gaikai subscription model.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
Guymelef said:
I understand that as i can play a PS3 game in PS4 via Gaikai vs someone playing the same game in a Bravia via Gaikai.
Click to expand...

Basically it seems as if it's... "if you have a controller, a screen and a device that can download apps, you can play against other people on PSN"
 
yurinka

yurinka

Member
patsu said:
Hmm... It should be easier to stream PS4 games for various reasons.

If Sony block it, it would be more to build PS4 install base. PS4 Gaikai should make its way to us when PS4 have reached critical mass. Imagine when the developers make PS4 games and suddenly they can address a larger market than PS4 install base. If Sony is successful, it would be hard to exclude PS4 in new releases.
Click to expand...
If Sony stream all their PS4 games, it would increase their userbase faster. Which means more game sales, something that both Sony, publishers and developers would want to support it.

PS4 hardware would be designed to stream them (to reduce the lag and to have the perfect controls) and to be the best home platform to enjoy them, and same goes with Vita in the portable side. So once people gets these games also will want the hardware.

Oh man, imagine to be able to play both 'the entire Playstation history' (all the PS1, PS2, PS3, PS4, PSP, Minis, Vita and PSM games available in PSN) in both PS4 and Vita. And at no cost, also in other places (PS certified devices, now every manufactures would want to be one. I even see Apple or MS). Man, it would be perfect. Too much.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
gofreak said:
Yeah, I think it's inevitable.

On Wednesday they'll discuss PS4, and discuss their cloud service, delivering PS1/PS2/PS3 content to a range of devices via cloud. Sort of angle the cloud service also as a way of promoting Playstation and the better experiences of PS4 to that wider audience also. If they do a multiplayer demo using various devices it'll probably be something like Killzone 3 or The Last of Us rather than Killzone PS4 ;)

Later they'll start trickling PS4 content onto that service too.

I wish it was all there from the start though :p
Click to expand...

Yeah I'm guessing they'll do baby steps to get there. Gotta get publishers on board, gamers on board and not piss off retailers too much.
 
C

Commanche Raisin Toast

Member
I'm thinking it's just a way to aggregate scores of games to a central area (a Facebook app or something similar) regardless of what platform you're playing the game on. THAT kind of 'compete'.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
shinra-bansho said:
They still need to provide an incentive to buy the PS4 hardware though - so it makes sense to keep PS4 disc and download only.

Without the hardware sales there are no software sales; without the software sales there are no royalties.

Unless you're saying they forgo royalty revenue and their more traditional model and instead try to replace it with their new Gaikai subscription model.
Click to expand...

I don't think allowing PS4 software on the cloud would threaten the box.

There's still a large market that cloud won't be suitable for. Still a large market that'll want the best possible experience even if they have the network access for cloud, and that means a local box.

And of course, they'll make money off software on the cloud as they do off software on disc.

But that's me. I can see more protectionist instincts kicking in among some at Sony. And from the WSJ article it does sound like Sony won't jump in with EVERYTHING from the start.
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Baconsammy said:
Oh. Bleh.
Click to expand...
No doubt "to start" is implied heavily here. Avoiding a collapse of the service under too great expectations, I'm sure Sony is looking for ways to initially control the audience size and grow from there. Starting initially as a limited BC solution for the PS4 customers who prefer to ditch their old PS3 hardware and keep their PS3 software will give them that control.

gofreak said:
I wish it was all there from the start though :p
Click to expand...
So the service would collapse under it's own weight? Is that what you want? ;)
 
O

Omikaru

Member
gofreak said:
I don't think allowing PS4 software on the cloud would threaten the box.

There's still a large market that cloud won't be suitable for. Still a large market that'll want the best possible experience even if they have the network access for cloud, and that means a local box.

And of course, they'll make money off software on the cloud as they do off software on disc.

But yeah, it sounds like Sony won't jump in with EVERYTHING from the start.
Click to expand...

Maybe they can't because it's too expensive? I know Gaikai does it better than OnLive does, but running full PS4 games on a server array seems really costly to me.

But I guess that depends on the model. Are they going to charge monthly for access to the cloud? Will that be Netflix-style all you can eat, or will that just grant you access and you need to buy games too? We don't actually know the ins and outs of the service yet, so it's hard to say what sort of investment Sony has made into it from a hardware perspective, and what they expect to get back in the short term.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
kaching said:
So the service would collapse under it's own weight? Is that what you want? ;)
Click to expand...

I'd prefer teething problems than them being too late to their own party ;) :p I guess if someone did beat them to the punch with contemporary, next-gen software on the cloud they could react quickly. But they should get their first...even if they don't get their immediately, day one, with PS4's launch.
 
R

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
It would be super cool if PS3 and PS4 users could play together in cross gen games. I know some of my friends aren't jumping in day 1 for PS4 and I'd like to play with them.
 
Raonak

Raonak

Banned
I think cloud streaming could save the Vita.

imagine having access to all your ps1/2/3/4 games on vita. would be pretty mindblowing.
constant internet connection being the bottleneck as with all cloud gaming.


I hope the tech works good, im very skeptical about the performance side of cloud gaming.
 
Interfectum

Interfectum

Member
Raonak said:
I hope the tech works good, im very skeptical about the performance side of cloud gaming.
Click to expand...

This is my issue so far. It sounds like Sony is banking a lot of this tech but my experience with cloud gaming has been meh at best. We'll see I guess. In theory, it sounds amazing and indeed a game changer... but how well does it work?
 
T

TimeEffect

Member
Fancy Corndog said:
For us they do. But I honestly think that Microsoft's plan has huge potential in the U.S.
Click to expand...

Yup, incredible potential. MS really wants to be the center of the living room, and they seem to be doing some really cool things in that respect. Whether the audience responds to that is the bigger question.

I also think MS's strategy of moneyhatting is going to save their butts, as it simply works. How likely/possible is it for big 3rd party games to get moneyhatted as timed-exclusives?
 
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