• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Dragon Ball Super |OT7| Please wait for Tien to be cool.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ikari Trunks is confirmed to NOT be in the Xenvoerse 2 DLC, he is only in a CG cutscene.
FUCKING LAME! I don't know what the fuck Dimps was thinking.
Also Merged Zamasu still has the same shitty voice acting in English as regular Zamasu.
Funi is totally going to completely ruin that arc, aren't they?

It's hard to look at the Xenoverse models after DBZ FighterZ anyway I just finished Buu Kai, and it was great.

Vegetto sounds a little different than he did in Xenoverse 2, so I think the arc will be fine as long as Schemmel updates his base Black voice.
 

Magwik

Banned
Ikari Trunks is confirmed to NOT be in the Xenvoerse 2 DLC, he is only in a CG cutscene.
FUCKING LAME! I don't know what the fuck Dimps was thinking.
Also Merged Zamasu still has the same shitty voice acting in English as regular Zamasu.
Funi is totally going to completely ruin that arc, aren't they?
I really wonder how much pull Sean has because it seems a lot of it comes from him. It'd be a shame for him to ruin it.
 
Because Zamasu having Goku's body is a big plot point. It isn't something that you can just ignore. And the explanation Toyo gave talked about the cellular level, so Toyo brought this on himself.

That's in the anime. That was never an issue in the manga and was never brought up at any point. And how would Black's cell linking make him into Merged Zamasu? The same with Future Zamasu? Did they pull a Perfect Cell?

It's simply not relevant to the situation. It doesn't matter that they had different bodies. What mattered is they bonded during their fusion. This particular criticism of Toyo is invalid because he didn't even write what in what you're accusing him about. This is your own misunderstanding. Again, never was it said that Black and Zamasu had the same cells from the start, or that it mattered that the bodies were different, just that they bonded during their fusion.

It's in the manga too, they fused after all. Again, as Gowasu said, their cells bonded while they were Merged Zamasu. Their cells were already bonded before they got split in half, which meant that both sides had the same ability to regrow back into Merged Zamasu.
 

L Thammy

Member
Thankfully, since FighterZ is coming out, Dimps has no reason not to go ahead with my idea of having Xenoverse 3 be completely terrible. If they're discovering they have a talent for something they should use it.
 

Skeeter49

Member
I think both Xenoverse games are fine games, with Xenoverse 2 fixing a lot of 1's flaws. They just don't compare to some of the older DB games we use to get.

If Xenoverse 3 gets the time in the oven it needs, I think it could be great. It needs more story stuff branching off from the OG timeline.

As much as I do want my fighting Dragon Ball games, I do want RPG Dragon Ball games as well.
 

HeroR

Member
Gotta hand it to the manga it's doing a much better job with the Black arc. That last chapter was amazing and reminded me of Z levels of fights.

The art top notch and I love that they added battle damage

Also
freaking Hakai :O

I laughed at that bottom panel since Toyo copied it from GT with Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta and Omega Shenron's clash.

What do you mean? He's been in the anime the whole time?

At least the manga is actually explaining things and making and effort to have some consistency. Perfected SSB is a much better concept than SSB kiaoken they even foreshadowed it.

Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan/Kaioken was als foreshadowed since Toriyama wrote in his notes for Resurrection 'F' that he made Goku's hair blue to represent him having a calm mind and Whis told Goku and Vegeta to control their ki better. The Kaioken is only possible because Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is a calm form with great ki control. So, not seeing why mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan get praised with the Kaioken got about the same amount of foreshadowing.
 

HeroR

Member
It's simply not relevant to the situation. It doesn't matter that they had different bodies. What mattered is they bonded during their fusion. This particular criticism of Toyo is invalid because he didn't even write what in what you're accusing him about. This is your own misunderstanding. Again, never was it said that Black and Zamasu had the same cells from the start, or that it mattered that the bodies were different, just that they bonded during their fusion.

It's in the manga too, they fused after all. Again, as Gowasu said, their cells bonded while they were Merged Zamasu. Their cells were already bonded before they got split in half, which meant that both sides had the same ability to regrow back into Merged Zamasu.

It is relevant since Black having a different body from Zamasu was kind of a big deal. So them bonding on a cellular level doesn't make sense.

And: "matter that they had different bodies. What mattered is they bonded during their fusion. This particular criticism of Toyo is invalid because he didn't even write what in what you're accusing him about."

No, this criticism is perfectly valid since 'cellular' and 'they're both Zamasu' implied that their cell merged because they're both Zamasu, not that they have the same soul. That is just how you can read it, but Toyo didn't actually say that. It isn't a 'misunderstanding' no more than that plot hole Toyo refused to address.

It wasn't in the manga. Merged Zamasu, unlike his anime counterpart, never had problems with his regeneration. So you can't take something that happened in the anime and claim it happened in the manga when it didn't nor was it touched upon.

And why would them bonding together make them Merged Zamasu and give their parts the ability to become full Merged Zamasus as well? Even if you handwave Black and Future Zamasu, their parts have no business becoming Merged Zamasu.
 

Fj0823

Member
It is relevant since Black having a different body from Zamasu was kind of a big deal. So them bonding on a cellular level doesn't make sense.

And: "matter that they had different bodies. What mattered is they bonded during their fusion. This particular criticism of Toyo is invalid because he didn't even write what in what you're accusing him about."

No, this criticism is perfectly valid since 'cellular' and 'they're both Zamasu' implied that their cell merged because they're both Zamasu, not that they have the same soul. That is just how you can read it, but Toyo didn't actually say that. It isn't a 'misunderstanding' no more than that plot hole Toyo refused to address.

It wasn't in the manga. Merged Zamasu, unlike his anime counterpart, never had problems with his regeneration. So you can't take something that happened in the anime and claim it happened in the manga when ti didn't nor was it touched upon.

And why would them bonding together make them Merged Zamasu and give their parts the ability to become full Merged Zamasus as well? Even if you handwave Black and Future Zamasu, their parts have no business becoming Merged Zamasu.

Bruh, like, the power levels are consistent and Goku always wins.

Manga is good guise
 

NeonZ

Member
It is relevant since Black having a different body from Zamasu was kind of a big deal. So them bonding on a cellular level doesn't make sense.

There was already the precedent that Goku Black's regenerated cells bonded better with his (Zamasu) mind.

No, this criticism is perfectly valid since 'cellular' and 'they're both Zamasu' implied that their cell merged because they're both Zamasu, not that they have the same soul. That is just how you can read it, but Toyo didn't actually say that. It isn't a 'misunderstanding' no more than that plot hole Toyo refused to address.
Nah. The manga gave an explanation "because they're both Zamasu". You're rejecting the explanation and claiming that it's a plothole, even though that just makes no sense when it doesn't contradict anything else within the story.

Yes, the manga didn't say 'because they have the same soul', but it also didn't say 'because they both have Zamasu cells', unlike you're claiming.

And why would them bonding together make them Merged Zamasu and give their parts the ability to become full Merged Zamasus as well? Even if you handwave Black and Future Zamasu, their parts have no business becoming Merged Zamasu.

The characters are clearly confused and claiming that it's impossible too, rather than accepting it and moving on, so we'll probably get some kind of explanation next chapter.
 

L Thammy

Member
It turns out that Zamasu and Goku Black's mitochondria are fusing together, allowing all their cells to output twice as much power.
 

HeroR

Member
There was already the precedent that Goku Black's regenerated cells bonded better with his (Zamasu) mind.


Nah. The manga gave an explanation "because they're both Zamasu". You're rejecting the explanation and claiming that it's a plothole, even though that just makes no sense when it doesn't contradict anything else within the story.

Yes, the manga didn't say 'because they have the same soul', but it also didn't say 'because they both have Zamasu cells', unlike you're claiming.



The characters are clearly confused and claiming that it's impossible too, rather than accepting it and moving on, so we'll probably get some kind of explanation next chapter.

You mean the reason why Black still got boosts from near death? I guess they could relate, but Black made it sounds like he was reformatting his body because he was a new soul.

'They're both Zamasu' doesn't really explained why their cells bond because Black isn't in a Zamasu's body.

I am also not calling that a plot hole. I was talking about the entire thing with the Time Rings and why Merged Zamasu's fusion broke. Toyo gave the explanation that only a Supreme Kai can used the Time Rings, something both Black and Future Zamasu can do, yet their fusion doesn't last forever. He never cleared this up by saying you just need the earrings or something to used the Time Rings.

It is implied, like I said, with the whole 'cellular level' thing and how Black and Future Zamasu apparently swap cell so they can both become Merged Zamasu.

Fair enough, but I don't have my hopes up since Toyo still haven't clear up the confusion with the Time Rings as I mentioned above.
 

NeonZ

Member
The explanation is the cellular level BS. We won't get more info lol.

Nah, that explanation was regarding why they were splitting in a weird way, but afterwards the characters go...

"Huh? You weren't supposed to be immortal too!"

"What... What's with that form?!"

"This one's now got the same face too!?"

"There are two fused Zamasu... impossible!"

They wouldn't be asking things like that if there were no explanation coming.

Fair enough, but I don't have my hopes up since Toyo still haven't clear up the confusion with the Time Rings as I mentioned above.

The time ring issue hasn't been questioned by characters in the manga itself though. It's clear we'll get no further explanation regarding that since no one raised your question in the narrative, but everyone (in the story itself) is wondering about what's happening at the end of the chapter regarding the multiple merged Zamasu.
 
For years following the end of the DBZ era on Toonami, I never imagined I'd be pining for the newest entry of new DB material every week. Yet here I am with a deeper interest and appreciation for DB than I had back at the high point of my interest in DBZ as a kid
 

HeroR

Member
Nah, that explanation was regarding why they were splitting in a weird way, but afterwards the characters go...

"Huh? You weren't supposed to be immortal too!"

"What... What's with that form?!"

"This one's now got the same face too!?"

"There are two fused Zamasu... impossible!"

They wouldn't be asking things like that if there were no explanation coming.



The time ring issue hasn't been questioned by characters in the manga itself though. It's clear we'll get no further explanation regarding that since no one raised your question in the narrative, but everyone (in the story itself) is wondering about what's happening at the end of the chapter regarding the multiple merged Zamasu.

Actually, the Time Ring was brought up again when the Supreme Kai said he wished he was still a lower Kai so he could heal and Gowasu said if he did he couldn't used the Time Rings. That would have been a good time for someone to asked for clarification.
 

NandoGip

Member
His role really isn't very different from the anime's. The big moments are there, like buying time to get Goku and Vegeta to retreat from the future and standing up and cutting merged Zamasu when everyone else had fallen... the main issue is that he's much weaker, and so for example, rather than one episode with him holding his own against Black and Zamasu for a while we get him getting completely trashed by Black and barely surviving.

Although, really, part of the problem there is clearly Toriyama's. It's clear now that he didn't create any power up for Trunks, which is why the anime was so shy with SSJ Rage's introduction (no proper name, not even any comments from other characters).

Good point. Even that being the case, I still prefer what the anime did with Future Trunks. I'm just curious to see how Toyo will end it so we can see what was Toriyama and what wasn't.
 
Good point. Even that being the case, I still prefer what the anime did with Future Trunks. I'm just curious to see how Toyo will end it so we can see what was Toriyama and what wasn't.

We know that well over a year ago Toriyama wanted Toyotaro to start doing more of his own stuff in the manga, who's to say he didn't change some of Toriyama's stuff?
 

HeroR

Member
We know that well over a year ago Toriyama wanted Toyotaro to start doing more of his own stuff in the manga, who's to say he didn't change some of Toriyama's stuff?

Because according to Toyo, he doesn't divert from Toriyama's outline. Which is why fans accused of the anime of doing all these major changes while the manga is more 'pure' to Toriyama's vision. Never mind he checks the anime.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
For years following the end of the DBZ era on Toonami, I never imagined I'd be pining for the newest entry of new DB material every week. Yet here I am with a deeper interest and appreciation for DB than I had back at the high point of my interest in DBZ as a kid
Despite what the constant arguing in here may tell you, most of us feel the same. We just got it out of our system in OT1 and now have nothing to do but have cyclical conversations and arguments in between episodes and game reveals

But yes. It is awesome. I don't even like Super as much as "Prime DB" (King Piccolo -> Cell) but it's one of the only anime I watch these days and it is good. Better than Buu, IMO.
 

Tsunamo

Member
My god, that dub Merged Zamasu voice. The second I heard it I couldn't stop laughing, it's so unfitting.
Does anybody doubt that Toriyama's outline for the entire Trunks arc was literally 3 lines long ?
It'll be fun to see one day if we ever get to read some of Toriyamas outlines for the series.
After watching the last couple of episodes, man Super animation used to look real bad. If this animation keeps it up this arc is going to be amazing. Shame it wasn't there for U6vU7 and Black/Zamasu.
Yeah I was watching a few clips of the Future Trunks arc the other day and it's amazing how bad it looks compared to this arc. Fingers crossed they keep it up from here on in.
 

J4g3r

Member
I've always played Xenoverse 2 with JP voices so the terrible dub hasn't really affected me, sucks that it's still an issue for Merged Zamasu though - Hopefully the dub in the anime is better.

There's a video of Vegito Blue in action here: https://twitter.com/BandaiNamcoUK/status/878228657193361409

What annoys me is they can't even get the smaller details right.

The Spirit Sword is STILL the wrong colour, and they didn't even bother changing the Final Kamehameha to match the one in the anime - it's still yellow. They should have updated the look of the move with this DLC.

I don't think I'll even bother with this one anyway, way too excited for Dragon Ball FighterZ to go back to Xenoverse 2.
 

NandoGip

Member
I'm confident that Toriyama's involvement in all things DB today is extremely minimal, and they just tout his name as a marketing tool. I don't have much evidence, but it's a hunch.

In nearly all properties he's had his hands on in the last 10 years, from art for other games, anime, etc. he's been as hands off as he could get away with. (Before the pedants jump on me, obviously there are exceptions)

The only thing that I've seen Toriyama not shy away from are designing characters.

Every interview I've read by him, he's unashamed to admit that he only made small contributions and that others did the heavy lifting. From suggestions by others, to fleshing out scripts, assisting with character art, being involved with the anime etc.

It could be a Japanese manners thing where you try to be humble and minimize your contribution as a way of being polite, but he doesn't strike me as that type of person.

My whole point is that I believe that Toriyama does very little with DB nowadays, much less than they tell us he does.

I think the reason they say he does this and that, is because there are shitload of fans who will start to criticise Super even more if their supreme lord Toriyama wasn't involved. I believe he is on a Walt Disney level of talent and influence, but I also believe there are competent people who can take over the product and do good with it.

For anyone who thinks that no Toriyama would automatically make the anime/manga a dud due to past works like GT, look out to other mediums like comics and see how some properties can be done right with different authors.

They're clearly setting it up this way for the future with all the acclaimed script writers for the anime. Toyotarou as Toriyama's apprentice, DBH's wild success, and Dragon Garow Lee doing the Yamcha manga.

I have many thoughts on this, but this is turning into a thesis paper so I'll leave it here so that we can discuss.
 

NandoGip

Member
Is Toriyama somewhat wealthy? Considering how big DB is.
Edit: Lol at Vegito Blue in XV2, the attention to detail sucks.

DB isn't his only claim to fame. He's done art for a shit load of stuff. Also other mangas/animes.

My low low low low ball guess is he's probably somewhere around 100 million. The guy has been wildly successful for 30+ years.

Dragon Ball alone is nearly a 5 billion dollar franchise. I can only imagine the % he takes.
 
Is Toriyama somewhat wealthy? Considering how big DB is.
Edit: Lol at Vegito Blue in XV2, the attention to detail sucks.

DB has been huge for a long time and he does art for the Dragon Quest series which was also another big series at the time (iirc there was a rumored mandate that any new numbered version of the game released/sold Japan had to be instead released/sold on either a Saturday or Sunday because it was killing the the country's productivity when they were released during the week).
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Tournament definitely not lasting two episodes. Prelim titles leaked for 98-101...

99 seems to be a Krillin focused episode.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom