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Trump proposes dramatic tax cuts for companies big and small, and other tax reforms

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T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
numble said:
Can you explain with numerical examples?
For example, if you have 10,000,000 in income and the tax rate is 35% (3,500,000 of tax) and it is reduced to 15% (1,500,000 of tax), you think you could still make up this difference at current rates with better USPS rates?
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So the taxes aren't charged on our revenue, only on the profits we close the year with (I'm not the accounting guy so I'm probably getting some of this wrong but that's how I understand it. Literally no business would be able to operate with a 35% tax on revenue). Basically all of our profits get reinvested right back into further inventory, employees, etc. If we made $5 million in 2016 we honestly might only close the year with a few hundred thousand in profit (because the profit we're making throughout the year is spent immedietly on business expenses)

$70-90k is a chunk of change, don't get me wrong, but I pay out bills twice that multiple times a month
 
N

numble

Member
demosthenes said:
Revenue doesn't equal profit or net income which does t equal taxable income, the person you quoted said multi million revenue. His taxable income could be 500k or less after expenses and tax differences.
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Of course I understand that, which is why I asked for numerical examples.
 
H

Herr Schwarz

Banned
The only way this would be remotely feasible also, is if the tax cuts actively increased the wages for the employees of the business that are getting said tax cuts thus creating a bigger floor of consumer spending power.

Will companies that are already at their threshold in terms of market ceiling, invest in more jobs? Why? And then also would they increase the wages of their current employees, and same question, why?
 
A

Apt101

Member
"It's not the federal government's job to be subsidizing the states," Mnuchin said.
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Wrong thing to say when red states are listening. They're the welfare queens of myth made animate.
 
M

mentallyinept

Banned
demosthenes said:
That's not how this works. The standard deduction will go from 12k for mfj to 24k. Your 37k would be fine, but I'm guessing that 37k includes state and property taxes. So you will lose those.
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What?

My understanding is that you can either take the standard deduction which is a flat amount or you can itemize.

Trump's plan explicitly says that he is going to eliminate most itemized deductions other than mortgage interest. So I would either take the 24k or roll with the now non-existent itemized deductions.

If that is true how would my itemized deduction amount be fine?
 
A

Abinash117

Member
Tovarisc said:
What Hill Republicans think of Trump's tax plan: 'Not even close' to reform

Despite a positive public front, congressional Republicans are quietly voicing frustration that President Donald Trump's big tax announcement Wednesday contains all cuts and no real reform, lacking the crucial components of a way to pay for the plan as well as sufficient congressional involvement.

Administration officials say the White House wanted to take the lead on this -- rather than wait for the Hill -- to get headlines ahead of Trump's 100th day in office.

....

House Speaker Paul Ryan put a positive spin on things during his own news conference Wednesday, but things are far from great behind the scenes. The Trump administration has ruffled GOP feathers on Capitol Hill, by getting in the way of legislators efforts to fix the tax system.

"It's not tax reform," said one senior GOP aide. "Not even close."

....

On top of that, the topline principles Trump is releasing leave out the important signs of actual reform, not the least of which include: how to pay for it, what's the pathway through the House and Senate, where the key players off the Hill that have enormous lobbying clout stand on things, and more.

For some aides and lawmakers involved in the process, Trump's approach is being taken as a direct affront to Ryan and Ways and Means Chair Kevin Brady, who spent more than a year on their tax proposal with the repeatedly stated goal of "once in a generation reform."

"It's really easy to talk about big cuts," a senior GOP aide told CNN. "We're about solutions. They aren't to that point yet, either on the policy or on the personnel level, and it's both obvious and disruptive to the process."

Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/26/p...form-analysis0707PMVODtopLink&linkId=36927118

GOP isn't happy.
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Yeah, Trump jumping into a process he knows nothing about nor invested no time in is completely stupid. He is harming the GOP efforts by doing this. Trump wanted to lead because the failure of the healthcare bill made him look like he wasn't in control, but him doing this all it really does is clash with his own party.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
Duxxy3 said:
He's going to bankrupt us.
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I'm assuming this is going to literally cost trillions over the course of a decade. I'd like to know how the hell they plan to make this even remotely budget neutral, because any dolt can tell you tax cuts never EVER garner 1:1 growth.

This is some ol' bullshit coming from a party that constantly moaned about national debt under Obama.
 
M

MarionCB

Member
Well, I guess 30 years of "trickle down" being thoroughly debunked and shown to be incredibly damaging isn't enough. It needs to be rammed through everyone's heads like railroad spikes.

Morat said:
Bush also ran up an insane deficient. It's amazing how right wingers everywhere have managed to claim the mantle of budgetary responsibility, while doing the exact opposite.
Same thing here in the UK.
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Same in Australia, and it's clearly proven in the numbers. Somehow the message never gets through.
 
D

demosthenes

Member
mentallyinept said:
What?

My understanding is that you can either take the standard deduction which is a flat amount or you can itemize.

Trump's plan explicitly says that he is going to eliminate most itemized deductions other than mortgage interest. So I would either take the 24k or roll with the now non-existent itemized deductions.

If that is true how would my itemized deduction amount be fine?
Click to expand...

Read my last sentence?

I have no idea what you itemize with.
 
N

numble

Member
demosthenes said:
Read my last sentence?

I have no idea what you itemize with.
Click to expand...
He obviously was doing a calculation based on his itemized deductions that no longer qualify. Which is why he thinks he'd need to take the standard deduction because his 37k in itemized deductions would not be fine.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
djplaeskool said:
I'm assuming this is going to literally cost trillions over the course of a decade. I'd like to know how the hell they plan to make this even remotely budget neutral, because any dolt can tell you tax cuts never EVER garner 1:1 growth.
Click to expand...

It's one thing to pass the buck to the middle class. Like they always do.

It's entirely another thing to cut taxes across the board and spend the same amount of money. Just a mindblowingly bad idea.
 
E

empyrean

Member
I don't see how anyone can see "massive tax cuts for business" as a good thing for he average person...that extra money they are goingg to pocket isn't going anywhere except to shareholders. Rich getting richer.
 
O

Oersted

Member
Herr Schwarz said:
The only way this would be remotely feasible also, is if the tax cuts actively increased the wages for the employees of the business that are getting said tax cuts thus creating a bigger floor of consumer spending power.

Will companies that are already at their threshold in terms of market ceiling, invest in more jobs? Why? And then also would they increase the wages of their current employees, and same question, why?
Click to expand...

If the trend is anything to go by, they will invest into machinisation.
 
S

spwolf

Member
Herr Schwarz said:
The only way this would be remotely feasible also, is if the tax cuts actively increased the wages for the employees of the business that are getting said tax cuts thus creating a bigger floor of consumer spending power.

Will companies that are already at their threshold in terms of market ceiling, invest in more jobs? Why? And then also would they increase the wages of their current employees, and same question, why?
Click to expand...

companies always invest in growth, thats how they increase their value for their owners and investors.

But right now only small companies and home business's pay 35% corporate tax... large companies take their profits offshore and use various deductions so I think I have read recently that they pay on average 11% or 12%. Taking out these loopholes and deductions would make it simpler for them and yet government would get more money.

I assume that Republicans wont like it because they would cut all the loopholes that allow big corps to hold their profits offshore. So much for them supporting lower taxes, they only do so when it is beneficial to the big sponsors.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
Herr Schwarz said:
The only way this would be remotely feasible also, is if the tax cuts actively increased the wages for the employees of the business that are getting said tax cuts thus creating a bigger floor of consumer spending power.

Will companies that are already at their threshold in terms of market ceiling, invest in more jobs? Why? And then also would they increase the wages of their current employees, and same question, why?
Click to expand...

The smaller the company is the closer it gets to paying the actual corporate tax rate. Those companies do have room to grow.

As it is now, the corporate tax rate is a subsidy from small to multinational corporations. This does not include LLCs.
 
T

Tovarisc

Member
Wall Street unimpressed by Trump tax plan
Stocks barely move as Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and Gary Cohn speak about a one-page paper on Trump’s tax plan.

Wall Street shrugged off President Donald Trump’s tax plan announcement on Wednesday as investors decided the policies were already well known while the future of a sweeping overhaul remains deeply uncertain even with Republicans in full control in Washington.

Stocks barely moved as Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn spoke for 30 minutes about a one-page paper on Trump’s tax plan that largely mirrored what the president promised during the campaign and lacked many key details.

....

Details including how to make up for the trillions in lost revenue from slashing corporate taxes were left to another day. The Dow, S&P 500 and Nasdaq indices were all largely unchanged in afternoon trading after the tax announcement.

Market gains may also have been limited by a POLITICO report earlier in the day that Trump could pull the U.S. out of NAFTA, which could affect big companies that rely on Mexico for parts of their supply chain.

....

“There is really not much new here and there still is no clear path to getting this through Congress,” said Douglas Kass of hedge fund Seabreeze Partners. “There is little chance of this being introduced in Congress anywhere near the context in which it’s been proposed today given the likely deficit unfriendly implications. There will be heated opposition including from some quarters within Trump’s own party.”

....

“This was about ticking a box ahead of the first 100 days and overall it’s pretty much a shrug today,” said Michael Obuchowski of Merlin Asset Management. “But this is at least a move in the direction of showing that the administration will put pressure on to get at least something done this year. And if you have generally lower corporate tax rates, money coming back from offshore and less regulation, that’s pretty stimulative.”

While any final tax plan may include some increased revenue, there is also concern among market analysts that giant unfunded tax cuts may not produce the kind of growth Republicans are counting on and could increase deficits and further bloat a federal debt that is already over $19 trillion.

Mnuchin and Cohn pledged that any tax overhaul would reduce the nation’s debt-to-GDP ratio but they offered few details about how that would occur, repeatedly promising to fill in details in the months ahead as they work with Congress on putting together actual legislation. Higher debt and deficits tend to lead to higher interest rates that can limit economic growth.

“Markets are waiting for three things. The first one is details of the plan, the second is prospects for passage and the third is how the high stakes game between growth and debt plays out,” said Mohamed A. El-Erian, chief economic adviser at Allianz. “What we know from history is that tax cuts alone are not sufficient to promote growth.”

Source: http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/26/wall-street-donald-trump-tax-plan-237649
 
S

Spoit

Member
eosos said:
If he can do this without increasing the deficit then I'm cautiously onboard... but I doubt that.
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We're still paying for the bush ones:
10-10-12bud_rev2-28-13-f2.jpg
 
L

Laevateinn

Member
Lord Frieza said:
But I mean, what if, and stay with me for this one, magic? Have we thought of that, yet.
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The Bush tax cuts didn't work because he thought magic came from Satan. Trump isn't a fundamentalist so he thinks magic is okay. This time it will definitely work.

manngc said:
Why does it look like the debt on the Bush Tax cuts keeps growing after they expire in 2011? Shouldn't it normalize around that time, perhaps even shrink?
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This graph is from 2013 when they were debating whether or not to let them expire.
 
A

avaya

Member
MarionCB said:
Well, I guess 30 years of "trickle down" being thoroughly debunked and shown to be incredibly damaging isn't enough. It needs to be rammed through everyone's heads like railroad spikes.



Same in Australia, and it's clearly proven in the numbers. Somehow the message never gets through.
Click to expand...

You will eventually come to the realisation that people are just idiots. They deserve everything they get.
 
G

guek

Banned
Spoit said:
We're still paying for the bush ones:
10-10-12bud_rev2-28-13-f2.jpg
Click to expand...

Fun fact, Obama grew the dollar amount of the deficit more than any other POTUS in history. The trend was started by Reagan though.

Obama - $7.917 trillion, 68% increase

W Bush - $5.849 trillion, 101% increase

Clinton - $1.396 trillion, 32% increase

HW Bush - $1.554 trillion, 54% increase

Reagan - $1.86 trillion, 186% increase
 
L

Lord Frieza

Member
guek said:
Fun fact, Obama grew the dollar amount of the deficit more than any other POTUS in history. The trend was started by Reagan though.

Obama - $7.917 trillion, 68% increase

W Bush - $5.849 trillion, 101% increase

Clinton - $1.396 trillion, 32% increase

HW Bush - $1.554 trillion, 54% increase

Reagan - $1.86 trillion, 186% increase
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Man, and just think how much that budget would have grown had HW gotten his second term. Good fucking god.
 
P

Ponn

Banned
Who could have possibly seen this one coming. I for one am shocked to my core that a rich old white shady business man who filed bankruptcy multiple times and won't show his taxes is substantially changing taxes to favor himself. I just can't believe this.
 
A

avaya

Member
Lord Frieza said:
Man, and just think how much that budget would have grown had HW gotten his second term. Good fucking god.
Click to expand...

Actually one of the things HW which was incredibly unpopular was that he raised taxes. It did add to the factors which cost him the election but he did the right thing.
 
Z

Zolo

Member
Tovarisc said:
“This was about ticking a box ahead of the first 100 days and overall it’s pretty much a shrug today,” said Michael Obuchowski of Merlin Asset Management. “But this is at least a move in the direction of showing that the administration will put pressure on to get at least something done this year. And if you have generally lower corporate tax rates, money coming back from offshore and less regulation, that’s pretty stimulative.”
Click to expand...

I find it funny how nothing Trump does is generally interpreted as something to actually happen, but simply a symbol of something else happening.
 
E

EatinOlives

Member
We have decades upon decades of economic analysis, research, and data to know that tax cuts for the wealthy continue to be horseshit and only hurt the economy.

Meanwhile the "limited federal government" assholes are also praising today's launch of VOICE, which is one of the most disgusting and racist federal programs that oppresses immigrants this side of Japanese internment camps.

This is sadly one of the few things I'm fully confident Cheeto Turd will pass, largely because the only reason Republicans even exist in federal government is to push ludicrous tax cuts while telling their middle and low class constituents the piss is rain.
 
J

Jenov

Member
Spoit said:
We're still paying for the bush ones:
10-10-12bud_rev2-28-13-f2.jpg
Click to expand...

The Bush Tax Cuts were suuuuuuuch bullshit, even worse than paying for the Iraq war, lol. Fuck the GOP for that one. And fuuuuuck Trump for this new plan, it's transparently evil and only enriches himself and his buddies.
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
Mortgage interest deduction will be irrelavent to me since they would be doubling the standard deduction to $24,000. I could never itemize that much.
 
G

guek

Banned
Lord Frieza said:
Man, and just think how much that budget would have grown had HW gotten his second term. Good fucking god.
Click to expand...

The GOP loves to blame dems for the debt and suck off Reagan but gag the moment you point out Reaganomics is what got us into this mess
 
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