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VOEZ is the first Nintendo Switch game to be portable-mode only

SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
Anteo said:
Wait people thought gamefreak would develop a console focused pokemon on switch? Why?
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The switch is their 3DS replacement. The only way it isn't is if it totally flops and they have to go back to two screens. There's no way it doesn't have the next pokemon game.

But Gamefreak isn't going to make pokemon portable only because of this. This is just for touchscreen games, as much as I don't like it.
 
P

petethepanda

Member
I'm just excited to hear that there'll be a version of Voez where you don't have to spend a billion fucking dollars to actually get a lot of songs.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
N.Grim said:
In this case good for the developers means good for us, this game can't work on a standard console
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I'm not complaining about this specific game. I'm worried about the precedent it sets. And I'm not sure it's worthy. I could play this game on my phone if I want it, this isn't about the game itself.

Anyhow, as I already tried once to say, this is pointless, it's a done deal already, so we'll see if this will bring to Switch the noble developers with their wonderful touch based games or compromised ports that will not take advantage of the system's main feature. Or maybe both , making everybody happy.
 
N

N.Grim

Member
EDarkness said:
If I made a game that was 100% motion controlled, then there wouldn't be any way for portable players to play, so it would be docked only. Or if I wanted to use that extra power to do some cool things with the system and now worry about portable stuff. It would be great for developers, but not good for players. How many people were upset that not all games on the Wii U didn't support off-TV play?
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You can use gyro even when the console isn't on the dock and the difference in power doesn't seem that big, and as I said this still isn't happened.

EDarkness said:
Sure, and you have the option to not buy that system. The system has a lot of flexibility, but the moment we start splitting things up, then the whole point of it all is tossed down the drain. People who don't want handheld only games have just as much reason to be upset about games not available for TV mode as those who don't want to play on the TV and want all games to be portable.
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They could't have games with touch controls in any case
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
KingSnake said:
Don't worry, I won't get your gold. I let you dig alone.
Click to expand...

It's good to see you answer this way when your opinions are challenged with an actually reasonable claim (i.e. that, even if the screen is black, there IS the option to play it on the GamePad), it makes you look like you actually want a discussion, and not like someone who's used to jump to corrosive conclusions and to acid comments that it becomes increasingly difficult to ditch your own gimmick for a while. So mature and balanced to ditch whoever doesn't agree with what you say with "Whatever, I won't get your gold", which could be translated into "Ngh, I am right and you know it, ekekekek" if I'd dare to do so. But how could I, all your arguments are so well-based, 100% of the times.
 
SinCityAssassin

SinCityAssassin

Member
Anteo said:
Wait people thought gamefreak would develop a console focused pokemon on switch? Why?
Click to expand...

Gamefreak doesn't make the console Pokemon games. However the Switch is a more powerful handheld while also being a console and Pokemon Company is more in tune with Nintendo philosophy about that shit, so.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
Mpl90 said:
It's good to see you answer this way when your opinions are challenged with an actually reasonable claim (i.e. that, even if the screen is black, there IS the option to play it on the GamePad), it makes you look like you actually want a discussion, and not like someone who's used to jump to corrosive conclusions and to acid comments that it becomes increasingly difficult to ditch your own gimmick for a while. So mature and balanced to ditch whoever doesn't agree with what you say with "Whatever, I won't get your gold", which could be translated into "Ngh, I am right and you know it, ekekekek" if I'd dare to do so. But how could I, all your arguments are so well-based, 100% of the times.
Click to expand...

I answered normally to the people who wrote to me in a normal way.

What would you answer to "Stop digging."? Honestly?
 
N

N.Grim

Member
KingSnake said:
I'm not complaining about this specific game. I'm worried about the precedent it sets. And I'm not sure it's worthy. I could play this game on my phone if I want it, this isn't about the game itself.

Anyhow, as I already tried once to say, this is pointless, it's a done deal already, so we'll see if this will bring to Switch the noble developers with their wonderful touch based games or compromised ports that will not take advantage of the system's main feature. Or maybe both , making everybody happy.
Click to expand...

The precedent is that if a game works only with touch controls you can see it on the Switch, if you want to play it on your smartphone good for you, maybe someone else want to play it on the Switch.
 
K

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
N.Grim said:
The precedent is that if a game works only with touch controls only you can see it on the Switch, if you want to play it on your smartphone good for you, maybe someone else want to play it on the Switch.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear. I don't mind a number of touch only games existing. What I would mind would be games from main series (1st party and 3rd party) compromised because there is no standard enforced. Some of you are convinced it won't happen. I hope you're right.
 
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LordKano

Member
Jeez, this thread wasn't supposed to be a new way for the doomsayers to create a fantasy that would help them to shit (again) on the console, but more to discuss the possibilities of game playable only through the portable or docked mode. Like, this opens the door to the whole mobile market, or even some sequels to DS/3DS games that couldn't be made otherwise.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
N.Grim said:
You can use gyro even when the console isn't on the dock and the difference in power doesn't seem that big, and as I said this still isn't happened.
Click to expand...

Difference is big enough, so maybe I want to focus there...and it would be perfectly valid based on people's argument here. As a developer, I'll be thinking about this seriously if I decide to port my game over to the NS. I imagine other companies may be thinking the same thing. What I see is people trying to defend everything being portable, but not things being console only or portable only based on the game. Options are there for developers to choose what works for their game or vision, right?

They could't have games with touch controls i any case
Click to expand...

Yep. By making a game with touch controls only, then they're segmenting the base. Their choice, of course. Nothing wrong with having it, but it does set a precedent that I wonder will eventually bite all of us on the ass at some point.
 
N

N.Grim

Member
KingSnake said:
Just to be clear. I don't mind a number of touch only games existing. What I would mind would be games from main series (1st party and 3rd party) compromised because there is no standard enforced. Some of you are convinced it won't happen. I hope you're right.
Click to expand...

I'm not conviced of anything, for now it isn't happened
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
LordKano said:
Jeez, this thread wasn't supposed to be a new way for the doomsayers to create a fantasy that would help them to shit (again) on the console, but more to discuss the possibilities of game playable only through the portable or docked mode. Like, this opens the door to the whole mobile market, or even some sequels to DS/3DS games that couldn't be made otherwise.
Click to expand...

Nintendo is not going to conquer the mobile market. Certainly not on a closed device. There is no real benefit here IMO, but there's a clear loss. Not surprising it went this way IMO. Ability to play touch screen games is not worth losing features for when everyone already has a phone...especially when people are already buying nintendo games on their phones. This battle was lost with the Vita half a decade ago. And the Vita didn't have to give anything up to try it.

Nintendo seems to be really bad at making the tough decisions Apple's famous for, despite the endless comparisons to the two. Apple would have definitely taken the "no your shit needs to work in ever mode" route (and they'd be right).
 
P

phanphare

Banned
holy shit, this thread. didn't expect so much controversy.

I would think allowing more kinds of games that utilize the system's features would be a good thing
 
jts

jts

...hate me...
phanphare said:
holy shit, this thread. didn't expect so much controversy.

I would think allowing more kinds of games that utilize the system's features would be a good thing
Click to expand...
It is, but you know how it goes with Nintendo.

"it's not a conspiracy!"
 
X

Xist2inspire

Member
Portable-only games that need touch to function are good for the Switch right now, and don't undermine the concept at all. One, not too many people even want to play those types of games on the big screen, meaning the work necessary to convert them into a motion/buttons experience would likely go to waste. Two, since Nintendo is still going with the "It's a home console" PR spin, touch-based portable games can easily be spun as an extra bonus, further driving home the point that this is a system not confined to just your living room.

Dock-only games do undermine the current perception and selling point of the concept though, and I wouldn't expect to see them until much later in the Switch's life, if at all. But if the Switch performs well, the option of sqeezing every bit of docked power it has without worrying about portable mode might seem like a good idea for some western devs looking to get extra sales. By then, Switch would (hopefully) be mature enough as a platform to fully embrace the hybrid concept by having extra benefits to both home and portable play (exclusive games), while still keeping the majority of the library usable in both modes.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
phanphare said:
holy shit, this thread. didn't expect so much controversy.

I would think allowing more kinds of games that utilize the system's features would be a good thing
Click to expand...

It is a good thing, except when it directly goes against the very idea behind the system in the first place. By doing this, it opens the door for other developers to do the same and what happens when we have to start guessing whether or not the game is gonna work docked or not or handheld or not?
 
L

LordKano

Member
Sir TapTap said:
Nintendo is not going to conquer the mobile market. Certainly not on a closed device. There is no real benefit here IMO, but there's a clear loss. Not surprising it went this way IMO. Ability to play touch screen games is not worth losing features for when everyone already has a phone...especially when people are already buying nintendo games on their phones. This battle was lost with the Vita half a decade ago. And the Vita didn't have to give anything up to try it.

Nintendo seems to be really bad at making the tough decisions Apple's famous for, despite the endless comparisons to the two. Apple would have definitely taken the "no your shit needs to work in ever mode" route (and they'd be right).
Click to expand...

What features are lost ? The features that don't exist in the first place ? Without the ability to make games only in portable mode, VOEZ wouldn't even have been released on Switch in the first place. This feature literally make games possible on the console, while they do not in any way hinder other developpers.

There's nothing negative from this possibility. Nothing. Stop digging, like someone said earlier.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
LordKano said:
What features are lost ? The features that don't exist in the first place ? Without the ability to make games only in portable mode, VOEZ wouldn't even have been released on Switch in the first place. This feature literally make games possible on the console, while they do not in any way hinder other developpers.

There's nothing negative from this possibility. Nothing. Stop digging, like someone said earlier.
Click to expand...

Obviously there is something negative or we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. The feature lost is the ability to play the game on the TV or handheld. Won't be playing this game on the TV....
 
N

N.Grim

Member
EDarkness said:
Difference is big enough, so maybe I want to focus there...and it would be perfectly valid based on people's argument here. As a developer, I'll be thinking about this seriously if I decide to port my game over to the NS. I imagine other companies may be thinking the same thing. What I see is people trying to defend everything being portable, but not things being console only or portable only based on the game. Options are there for developers to choose what works for their game or vision, right?



Yep. By making a game with touch controls only, then they're segmenting the base. Their choice, of course. Nothing wrong with having it, but it does set a precedent that I wonder will eventually bite all of us on the ass at some point.
Click to expand...

We are discussing a touch controls only game thet will be released on the Switch, that can't exist on a standard home console, I don't see the point of making crazy hypothesis now, that's all
 
L

LordKano

Member
EDarkness said:
Obviously there is something negative or we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. The feature lost is the ability to play the game on the TV or handheld. Won't be playing this game on the TV....
Click to expand...

This feature isn't lost, because this feature never existed for the game. If Nintendo didn't allow games to be portable-only when necessary, the game wouldn't have released at all. TV mode for this game was never a possibility, in any case.
 
P

phanphare

Banned
EDarkness said:
It is a good thing, except when it directly goes against the very idea behind the system in the first place. By doing this, it opens the door for other developers to do the same and what happens when we have to start guessing whether or not the game is gonna work docked or not or handheld or not?
Click to expand...

I just think it's weird, people are talking like it'd be better if there were less kinds of games on the system that don't utilize its features. the console has a touch screen so why not have a touch based games come to the system?

also I sincerely doubt there will be any guessing involved, it'll probably be noted on the download page and on the back of the retail box if it has a physical release

I'm just not seeing any downsides to this personally
 
jts

jts

...hate me...
EDarkness said:
It is a good thing, except when it directly goes against the very idea behind the system in the first place. By doing this, it opens the door for other developers to do the same and what happens when we have to start guessing whether or not the game is gonna work docked or not or handheld or not?
Click to expand...

No, it doesn't. Nintendo have complete control over game publishing on Nintendo Switch and they can say that only games that rely on touchscreen can be made to be portable-only, which is seemingly the case here.

If you're going to buy a touchscreen game I think you'll have a pretty good idea if it will work on your TV or not.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
LordKano said:
This feature isn't lost, because this feature never existed for the game. If Nintendo didn't allow games to be portable-only when necessary, the game wouldn't have released at all. TV mode for this game was never a possibility, in any case.
Click to expand...

But it's a basic function of the console itself....

jts said:
If you're going to buy a touchscreen game I think you'll have a pretty good idea if it will work on your TV or not.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, if I don't play my NS as a portable at all, then I wouldn't be able to play the game at all...even if I wanted to.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
LordKano said:
What don't you understand in : the game couldn't exist if TV-mode was mandatory ?
Click to expand...

I know this may sounds bad, but I'd either prefer they figure out a way to make sure it's playable on the TV, or not port the game at all. People are going to disagree with this line of thinking, but as someone who is going to be using my system as mainly a "console", because I can't play it on the TV means it may as well not even exist for me in the first place. A controversial opinion, to be sure, but it's still my opinion on the matter.
 
M

mollipen

Member
Kresnik258 said:
Same as Deemo on Vita, touch-screen and handheld only (no PSTV).

Not surprised by this.
Click to expand...

The Vita is a touchscreen-supporting handheld that, years later, got a weird "play on TV" side peripheral. I wouldn't at all consider that to be the same.

I'm hugely torn on this. I don't want to say certain types of games shouldn't be able to come to the platform, but the "right" way to play a Switch is two ways: handheld and on TV. A game telling me that I can't use one of those two methods bugs me.

Because, the moment a "console-only" Switch game comes out, I'd be hugely pissed as an owner.
 
I

IC5

Member
Good, I'm glad we are getting portable only games so early. This will set the tone that Switch is whatever it needs to be. And that, will ultimately benefit everyone, with a diverse library.
 
L

LordKano

Member
EDarkness said:
I know this may sounds bad, but I'd either prefer they figure out a way to make sure it's playable on the TV, or not port the game at all. People are going to disagree with this line of thinking, but as someone who is going to be using my system as mainly a "console", because I can't play it on the TV means it may as well not even exist for me in the first place. A controversial opinion, to be sure, but it's still my opinion on the matter.
Click to expand...

That's your opinion, it's fine, and let me express my opinion that it's damn stupid. You're asking for games to not be released at all, instead of being there in some form, because of a selfish need to have all your games playable the way you want, even when it's simply not possible.
 
P

Pandy

Member
KingSnake said:
I answered normally to the people who wrote to me in a normal way.

What would you answer to "Stop digging."? Honestly?
Click to expand...

Maybe it's a bit too much of a colloquial phrase? I'd just read a bunch of your Tropical Freeze posts, where you were 'digging yourself a hole' about the game abandoning the core 'feature' of the WiiU when it didn't, it just used it in a way you weren't interested in.

As to your overall point, I'm sure it'll be a mixture.
We'll get a bunch of lazy mobile ports which only use touch-screen inputs when they could easily be adapted.
We'll get a bunch of brilliant touch-screen-only games that couldn't exist on console otherwise.
We'll get a bunch of games from developers that make the effort to add console controls to touch-screen games and touch-screen controls to console games.
 
MightBeMagic

MightBeMagic

Member
EDarkness said:
I know this may sounds bad, but I'd either prefer they figure out a way to make sure it's playable on the TV, or not port the game at all. People are going to disagree with this line of thinking, but as someone who is going to be using my system as mainly a "console", because I can't play it on the TV means it may as well not even exist for me in the first place. A controversial opinion, to be sure, but it's still my opinion on the matter.
Click to expand...

I agree so dont worry. When the first big game is dock/handheld only everyone defending this now will be crying.
 
MightBeMagic

MightBeMagic

Member
LordKano said:
That's your opinion, it's fine, and let me express my opinion that it's damn stupid. You're asking for games to not be released at all, instead of being there in some form, because of a selfish need to have all your games playable the way you want, even when it's simply not possible.
Click to expand...

We didnt create the switch, market it as a console FIRST and not a 3ds replacement.

The ads say play any way you like

So excuse our confusion when we find a game that doesnt seem to follow that rule.

Its like having an apple watch app that you find out needs the iphone to open. Point of the watch was so separate itself from the need for a phone and now you need one.

This console is supposed to allow you to play THE SAME GAME at home on the tv and on the road. This game doesnt let you do that.
 
N

N.Grim

Member
EDarkness said:
I know this may sounds bad, but I'd either prefer they figure out a way to make sure it's playable on the TV, or not port the game at all. People are going to disagree with this line of thinking, but as someone who is going to be using my system as mainly a "console", because I can't play it on the TV means it may as well not even exist for me in the first place. A controversial opinion, to be sure, but it's still my opinion on the matter.
Click to expand...

So you can just don't think at all about this type of game since you don't like this type of game and leave the option to play this type of game for other people.
 
E

EDarkness

Member
LordKano said:
That's your opinion, it's fine, and let me express my opinion that it's damn stupid. You're asking for games to not be released at all, instead of being there in some form, because of a selfish need to have all your games playable the way you want, even when it's simply not possible.
Click to expand...

Looks like we've reached the end of this discussion between us. I'm trying to keep this civil, but it's like you don't want this to be civil.

Before I bail out of this thread, I want to point out that I'm not being selfish. I have no interest in this game at all. However, I am looking at what this means for those who may be interested, but won't be able to play it because of their preference. I bet that if a game comes out as being docked only there will be people complaining that they should be able to play the game the way they want (via portable). It is the overall mantra of the system and what we see in all of the videos and messaging. To tell folks that the game ONLY works in one form or another goes against that entirely. Sure, it's great of the devs because they aren't tied to some kind of "standard" and can build their game however they like. However, as a player this may or may not be convenient for them.

My personal feeling is that games should be made to work at least portable and on the TV. This means things aren't segmented and players can choose the way they want to play. I don't see how this is a bad thing. Everyone wins and we're not arguing about how someone chooses to play the game.
 
N

N.Grim

Member
MightBeMagic said:
We didnt create the switch, market it as a console FIRST and not a 3ds replacement.

The ads say play any way you like

So excuse our confusion when we find a game that doesnt seem to follow that rule.

Its like having an apple watch app that you find out needs the iphone to open. Point of the watch was so separate itself from the need for a phone and now you need one.

This console is supposed to allow you to play THE SAME GAME at home on the tv and on the road. This game doesnt let you do that.
Click to expand...
I like to play games with touch controls, I can on the Switch, you don't like it, you don't play games with touch controls
 
P

phanphare

Banned
EDarkness said:
I know this may sounds bad, but I'd either prefer they figure out a way to make sure it's playable on the TV, or not port the game at all. People are going to disagree with this line of thinking, but as someone who is going to be using my system as mainly a "console", because I can't play it on the TV means it may as well not even exist for me in the first place. A controversial opinion, to be sure, but it's still my opinion on the matter.
Click to expand...

this just sounds weird though. it's like instead of you just personally skipping the game because it doesn't work on the tv you would rather it just not exist entirely which nets you the exact same scenario but then the game doesn't exist for those that do want to play it.

basically if you wouldn't play the game in either scenario (skipping it/it not existing entirely) why does it matter if others do?
 
MightBeMagic

MightBeMagic

Member
N.Grim said:
I like to play games with touch controls, I can on the Switch, you don't like it, you don't
Click to expand...

If theres only one option theres no choice.

Nintendo are advertising the fact you have the CHOICE which way you play.

This game gives you no choice. Removing Switches core USP.
 
L

LordKano

Member
MightBeMagic said:
We didnt create the switch, market it as a console FIRST and not a 3ds replacement.

The ads say play any way you like

So excuse our confusion when we find a game that doesnt seem to follow that rule.

Its like having an apple watch app that you find out needs the iphone to open. Point of the watch was so separate itself from the need for a phone and now you need one.

This console is supposed to allow you to play THE SAME GAME at home on the tv and on the road. This game doesnt let you do that.
Click to expand...

What would you choose : not having the game at all or having the game in portable mode only ?
There's no other possibilities. It couldn't be made in TV-mode. It's simply impossible. So, answer that question, what would you choose ?

If you're so mad that this game doesn't let you "switch", then just think it doesn't exist. It won't change anything to you, since you wouldn't be able to play it in TV-mode anyway. And the people who want to play it will be able to.
 
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