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Paris mayor demands black feminist festival that 'prohibits' white people be banned

S

Shiggy

Member
The Paris mayor, Anne Hidalgo, has called for a black feminist festival in the French capital to be banned, saying it was “prohibited to white people”.

The first edition of the Nyansapo Festival, due to run from 28-30 July at a cultural centre in Paris, bills itself as “an event rooted in black feminism, activism, and on (a) European scale”.

Four-fifths of the festival area will be set aside as a “non-mixed” space for black women, according to its website. Another space will be a “non-mixed” area for black people regardless of gender. Another space would be “open to all”.

The English version of the site does not use the word “non-mixed”, but “reserved”.

Hidalgo said on Twitter that she firmly condemned the organisation “of this event, ‘prohibited to white people’”.

“I am asking for this festival to be banned,” the mayor said, adding she also reserved the right “to prosecute the organisers for discrimination”.

The prefect of police, Michel Delpuech, said in a statement that police had not been advised about the event by Sunday evening. But, Delpuech added, the police “would ensure the rigorous compliance of the laws, values, and principles of the republic”.

French anti-racist and antisemitism organisations strongly condemned the festival. SOS Racisme described the event as “a mistake, even an abomination, because it wallows in ethnic separation, whereas anti-racism is a movement which seeks to go beyond race”.

The International League against Racism and Antisemitism said “Rosa Parks would be turning in her grave”, a reference to the American civil rights campaigner.

Wallerand de Saint-Just, the regional head of Marine Le Pen’s National Front party, had challenged Hidalgo on Friday to explain how the city was putting on an event “promoting a concept that is blatantly racist and anti-republican.”

The cultural centre La Générale, where the event was to be hosted, and the collective Mwasi, which organised the event, said on Sunday they were the “target of a disinformation campaign and of ‘fake news’ orchestrated by the foulest far right”.

“We are saddened to see certain anti-racist associations letting themselves be manipulated like this,” read a statement posted on the Generale website.

A “decolonisation summer camp” in the north-eastern French city of Reims elicited similar outrage last year, as it billed itself as a “training seminar on antiracism” reserved for victims of “institutional racism” or “racialised” minorities – excluding by default white people.
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...stival-prohibits-white-people-banned-nyansapo


I honestly wonder how many would have even known/cared about this if it hadn't been brought to public by Front National (outside of the right-wing, probably not many). But if calls for diversity and no discrimination should remain credible, the reaction by Hidalgo appears understandable. The response by French anti-racist and antisemitism organisations and the International League against Racism and Antisemitism is also sending out a strong message, thus not giving Front National any chance for further attacks.

Nonetheless, to me the criticism is somewhat questionable. If you have some work group in which members are supposed to share their experiences on racism or racial slurs, it may not necessarily make sense to invite people who don't face such issues. Is it discriminating not to invite males to a work group that helps pregnant women? Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to invite everyone.
 
S

Slayven

Member
If they wanted this they should have just called it a black feminist festival, I promise you the net effect would have been the same
 
G

Glasshole

Banned
Shiggy said:
Nonetheless, to me the criticism is somewhat questionable. If you have some work group in which members are supposed to share their experiences on racism or racial slurs, it may not necessarily make sense to invite people who don't face such issues. Is it discriminating not to invite males to a work group that helps pregnant women? Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to invite everyone.
Click to expand...

Like chinese, vietnamese, polish, jewish and others?

It's exactly this (literal) black and white thinking that will get us absolutely nowhere. Anti-racism means thinking beyond race - period. Not nitpicking and comparing who has it the worst. This will only exacerbate things and won't allow us to ever step beyond those boundries.

Inb4 shitstorm cause I have no idea about discrimination.
 
F

Fantastapotamus

Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Shiggy said:
Nonetheless, to me the criticism is somewhat questionable. If you have some work group in which members are supposed to share their experiences on racism or racial slurs, it may not necessarily make sense to invite people who don't face such issues. Is it discriminating not to invite males to a work group that helps pregnant women? Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to invite everyone.
Click to expand...

It makes perfect sense, so the people who never experience it hear about this happening and don't think racism is over.
 
andythinkpad

andythinkpad

Member
Is this festival being held at public space? The government should have some say in how much of the event can be reserved for small group.
 
C

caliph95

Member
Fantastapotamus said:
It makes perfect sense, so the people who never experience it hear about this happening and don't think racism is over.
Click to expand...
Guessing from the outside presepctive for ignorant people(not knowledgeable how it is in PAris) it will sound like a black supremacist group (not saying they are) or that will be the message certain groups will run with
Especially since it was a festival and i assume a public space.
It would have been better not to prohibit them
 
C

ClosingADoor

Member
Shiggy said:
Nonetheless, to me the criticism is somewhat questionable. If you have some work group in which members are supposed to share their experiences on racism or racial slurs, it may not necessarily make sense to invite people who don't face such issues. Is it discriminating not to invite males to a work group that helps pregnant women? Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to invite everyone.
Click to expand...
Seems the problem is not that they weren't invited. It is that they were prohibited from coming at all. There is a difference between focusing your event on a certain group and going: you are not allowed in because of your race or gender.
 
M

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
Slayven said:
If they wanted this they should have just called it a black feminist festival, I promise you the net effect would have been the same
Click to expand...
Thing is, this shit blew up because they have a couple of "non-mixed" keynotes planned during the festival.

It was never meant as an event prohibited to white people.

EDIT : And actually that whole thing blew from the french equivalent to 4chan, which the board to the biggest videogames news site here, jeuxvideo.com
 
S

Shiggy

Member
Glasshole said:
Like chinese, vietnamese, polish, jewish and others?

It's exactly this (literal) black and white thinking that will get us absolutely nowhere. Anti-racism means thinking beyond race - period. Not nitpicking and comparing who has it the worst. This will only exacerbate things and won't allow us to ever step beyond those boundries.

Inb4 shitstorm cause I have no idea about discrimination.
Click to expand...

Fair point.


Fantastapotamus said:
It makes perfect sense, so the people who never experience it hear about this happening and don't think racism is over.
Click to expand...

That's not quite how these self-help groups work though.
 
O

Oreiller

Member
Shiggy said:
I honestly wonder how many would have even known/cared about this if it hadn't been brought to public by Front National (outside of the right-wing, probably not many). But if calls for diversity and no discrimination should remain credible, the reaction by Hidalgo appears understandable. The response by French anti-racist and antisemitism organisations and the International League against Racism and Antisemitism is also sending out a strong message, thus not giving Front National any chance for further attacks.
Click to expand...

I had heard about it from feminist friends at least, and they weren't too pleased about it. But yeah, the reaction of the authorities makes sense, this kind of discrimination is against the law.
 
M

MistakenMobius

Member
andythinkpad said:
Is this festival being held at public space? The government should have some say in how much of the event can be reserved for small group.
Click to expand...
They probably receive public money hence why the mayor has a thing to say.

They also seems to be against mixité with brown people, quite a big voting group in Paris I guess.

Also please note in France that this kind of things falls under the law. There have been plenty of things that have been banned like the pork soup distribution of the FN and a few other.
 
F

Funyarinpa

Member
In before someone says that admitting white people will harm the aim of the festival.
people wishing to argue/stir shit will probably not even attend a black feminist festival but that's just me.

I have reservations about "women only!" etc. events in private spaces, let alone public spaces. (edit: poster below says that the segregated areas were on private premises. My other points still stand.)

I don't believe social justice movements that explicitly exclude people of other ethnicities and/or genders will progress much farther. I think that inclusiveness is crucial to their success. It also gets across the feeling of empowerment far more clearly, in my opinion.

And, well, if law prohibits that, then yeah there's no issue with the demand for a ban.
 
K

Kinyou

Member
The cultural centre La Générale, where the event was to be hosted, and the collective Mwasi, which organised the event, said on Sunday they were the “target of a disinformation campaign and of ‘fake news’ orchestrated by the foulest far right”.

“We are saddened to see certain anti-racist associations letting themselves be manipulated like this,” read a statement posted on the Generale website.
Click to expand...
So what's the real information supposed to be? Is this bad reporting or was the response just that weak?
 
entremet

entremet

Member
So it looks like white people were never really banned according to the article.

The issue is the reserved spaces. That's really tricky honestly. I can see the logic as that type of separation can garner icky vibes. But it doesn't seem malicious from the organizers end's, just historically insensitive.

I know they're not American, but that conjures up Jim Crow to me. And again, I'm no familar with French law as well.
 
M

Mistouze

user-friendly man-cashews
andythinkpad said:
Is this festival being held at public space? The government should have some say in how much of the event can be reserved for small group.
Click to expand...
The parts of the festival open to all are in a public place, the non-mixed events were scheduled to happen on private premises (because the organizers aren't actually stupid reverse racists).

The mayor of Paris actually asked for them to do stuff they already did...
 
A

akira28

Member
There is no way they could enforce the "non-mixed spaces" suggestion for the event except for participants to cooperate with the idea. Its not like there is some law or authority forcing segregation on fear of violence or inprisonment. The comparisons really don't stand up, and it looks more like "we don't like what you're trying to do, so now you can not do it."
 
M

MistakenMobius

Member
Mistouze said:
The parts of the festival open to all are in a public place, the non-mixed events were scheduled to happen on private premises (because the organizers aren't actually stupid reverse racists).

The mayor of Paris actually asked for them to do stuff they already did...
Click to expand...
They probably get money from the city though.
 
H

His Majesty

Banned
Kinyou said:
So what's the real information supposed to be? Is this bad reporting or was the response just that weak?
Click to expand...

Seems like a weak deflection. It's also not just the far right reporting but respectable organisations as well.

I myself can't get behind a festival with zones excluding people based on skin colour. Clearly racism to me.
 
J

John Kowalski

Banned
I wonder how long it will take for people in general to figure out that you can't fight the cumulative effects of discrimination with measures that pretend it doesn't exist in the first place.
 
K

Kreed

Member
Just sounds like they had "safe spaces" for black women. This shouldn't be a big deal especially since they had spaces for everyone else. It's disappointing how "anti-racist" groups continue to not understand the need for talking solely among others in the same group for marginalized groups/groups that are a minority in a country without throwing out false equivalencies of fictional events from non marginalized groups and tossing out random civil rights leaders with no context.

I wonder how the Paris mayor feels about women only Wonder Woman screenings.

Slayven said:
If they wanted this they should have just called it a black feminist festival, I promise you the net effect would have been the same
Click to expand...

Very true.
 
T

Transhuman

Unconfirmed Member
Hux1ey said:
Yay more segregation, that's what we need.
Click to expand...

akira28 said:
fresh hot takes and syrup. just in time for breakfast.

yay more people throwing around terms they don't mean about issues they barely care about.
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https://mwasicollectif.com/2017/04/05/festival-nyansapo/

Our festival is organized in several spaces:

  • Black women's non-mixed space (80% of the festival): debates and construction of a political strategy and agenda, groups of words, reflections on Afro-feminist theories and care
  • Blind space for black people: Reflections around the black community, and the struggles afros
  • Mixed space for racialized women: Exchanges on decolonial feminisms
  • Open space for all : round tables, show cases and exhibitions
Click to expand...

I think segregation actually was the word Hux1ey meant to use.
 
E

Elfotografoalocado

Banned
Besides this violating anti-discrimination laws, this is counterproductive. I'm not saying go and put Emma Watson to give a speech up there because this is a day for black women to share their experiences, but DO have white people listen to those stories.
We are the ones who need to know the nuances and consequences of our privilege the most.

Edit: seeing as those are roundtables, have them as a debate and have white people/black males watch it without intervening, that'd be educational AND productive. But it is conflicting as it's supposed to be a safe space.
 
andythinkpad

andythinkpad

Member
Mistouze said:
Thing is, this shit blew up because they have a couple of "non-mixed" keynotes planned during the festival.

It was never meant as an event prohibited to white people.

EDIT : And actually that whole thing blew from the french equivalent to 4chan, which the board to the biggest videogames news site here, jeuxvideo.com
Click to expand...

Well hold the "non mixed" keynotes in nearly privately spaces. Don't use public space to do it. Whatever you call it is irrelevant.
 
A

akira28

Member
Transhuman said:
https://mwasicollectif.com/2017/04/05/festival-nyansapo/



I think segregation actually was the word Hux1ey meant to use.
Click to expand...

there's a big difference between the legally enforced social system of separating the races, and a one day non-mixing event for a black feminism festival.

but hey, France is famous for not understanding things conceptually....(looking like America and Britain here France, but that's no surprise. On some things, these people share some things in common.)
 
A

Alienfan

Member
It's unnecessary segregation, but anyone else notice that all of a sudden Reddit and the rest of the internet seem to care about feminism?
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
Slayven said:
If they wanted this they should have just called it a black feminist festival, I promise you the net effect would have been the same
Click to expand...

Bingo.

Also daily reminder: folks coming together for a very specific purpose is not segregation. Legally forcing separation is.

As the details have shown through, this is more the former.

So shut up about the latter if you got no clue what it really entails.
 
F

Funyarinpa

Member
John Kowalski said:
I wonder how long it will take for people in general to figure out that you can't fight the cumulative effects of discrimination with measures that pretend it doesn't exist in the first place.
Click to expand...

I love how you equate "Inclusive to people of all races " with "Pretending there's no historical discrimination" so quickly.

Elfotografoalocado said:
Besides this violating anti-discrimination laws, this is counterproductive. I'm not saying go and put Emma Watson to give a speech up there because this is a day for black women to share their experiences, but DO have white people listen to those stories.
We are the ones who need to know the nuances and consequences of our privilege the most.

Edit: seeing as those are roundtables, have them as a debate and have white people/black males watch it without intervening, that'd be educational AND productive. But it is conflicting as it's supposed to be a safe space.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think this is my stance on the issue.

Kid Kamikaze10 said:
Bingo.

Also daily reminder: folks coming together for a very specific purpose is not segregation. Forcing separation is.

As the details have shown through, this is more the former.

So shut up about the latter if you got no clue what it really entails.
Click to expand...

Folks are coming together for a specific purpose while enforcing separation. It's segregation by your own definition.

No marginalized demographic has the power to reverse the effects of their historic and far-reaching discrimination by itself. Having a festival 80% exclude people who aren't black women really debilitates the effect such gatherings have for promoting social justice, in my opinion. I'm not saying that white people and males need to have just as much of a say, but letting them observe doesn't have any downsides I see.

I would ask why the very presence of white people/males would keep it from being a safe space for black women but I guess the answer for that's heavily implied.
 
S

Sgt. Kabukiman

Banned
Yeah, this was in the news this weekend. Not sure how to feel about this, honestly. On one hand, the Front National is definitely trying to manipulate the shit out of this but on the other hand, the organization of the event is certainly questionable. The different tiers of access depending on race are just off-putting. I read the manifesto explaining the reasoning but I don't really buy the arguments they put forward.

Here's the setup of the event as described on the official website:
Notre festival est organisé en plusieurs espaces :

Espace non mixte femmes noires (80% du festival) : débats et construction d’une stratégie et d’un agenda politiques, groupes de paroles, réflexions sur les théories afroféministes et care
Espace non mixte personnes noires : Réflexions autour de la communauté noire, et les luttes afros
Espace non mixte femmes racisées : Échanges sur les féminismes décoloniaux
Espace ouvert à tou.te.s : Tables rondes, show case et expositions
Click to expand...
 
A

akira28

Member
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
So shut up about the latter if you got no clue what it really entails.
Click to expand...

they have no right to tell a white person where he can or cannot go.
ban the event. oh de facto segregation abounds everywhere, but let a non-white person suggest anything. there better be some white people willing to allow it.

over here we call it having a permit.
 
A

ahoyhoy

Unconfirmed Member
Slayven said:
If they wanted this they should have just called it a black feminist festival, I promise you the net effect would have been the same
Click to expand...

Yeah, and at most they would have only gotten a few white people, which I can't imagine would have been enough to derail whatever discussions they had planned.
 
finowns

finowns

Member
It's kind of weird if they balantly discriminate. If they're afraid white people are going to ruin the day, how many white people do they think are going to go to a black feminist festival?
 
D

Darryl M R

Member
Alienfan said:
It's unnecessary segregation, but anyone else notice that all of a sudden Reddit and the rest of the internet seem to care about feminism?
Click to expand...
Kat Blaque, a great YouTuber, has a video about how people want feminists to argue and disagree in public spaces for entertainment. These people truly don't care and there's no need to pretend like they do. The same people on Reddit that will call this modern day segregation will quote MLK in an effort to tell people of color to calm down.
 
H

Hux1ey

Banned
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
Bingo.

Also daily reminder: folks coming together for a very specific purpose is not segregation. Forcing separation is.

As the details have shown through, this is more the former.

So shut up about the latter if you got no clue what it really entails.
Click to expand...

Coming together and banning other races from entering, so progressive.

akira28 said:
they have no right to tell a white person where he can or cannot go.
Click to expand...

That diet racism.
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Kid Kamikaze10 said:
Bingo.

Also daily reminder: folks coming together for a very specific purpose is not segregation. Forcing separation is.

As the details have shown through, this is more the former.

So shut up about the latter if you got no clue what it really entails.
Click to expand...

Looks like it violates EU law, though.

The rest of the world aren't US college campuses.

Strangely, it probably could've been done organically if the areas weren't demarcated in the proposal.
 
I

Infinite

Member
Darryl M R said:
Kat Blaque, a great YouTuber, has a video about how people want feminists to argue and disagree in public spaces for entertainment. These people truly don't care and there's no need to pretend like they do. The same people will call this modern day segregation will quote MLK in an effort to tell people of color to calm down.
Click to expand...
*Kat Blaque

Her content is solid I recommend her channel
 
K

Kinyou

Member
akira28 said:
there's a big difference between the legally enforced social system of separating the races, and a one day non-mixing event for a black feminism festival.

but hey, France is famous for not understanding things conceptually....(looking like America and Britain here France, but that's no surprise. On some things, these people share some things in common.)
Click to expand...
Considering that anti-racism organisations disagree with this festival as well, doesn't that at least make you consider their stance?
 
K

Kid Kamikaze10

Member
entremet said:
Looks like it violates EU law, though.

The rest of the world aren't US college campuses.

Strangely, it probably could've been done organically if the areas weren't demarcated in the proposal.
Click to expand...

If holding an event centering black women for once gets the organizers cuffed, they really need to look into the effectiveness of that law.
 
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