-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Gran Turismo Sport Previews
- Thread starter Yiazmat
- Start date
well you kind of nailed it there even though you didn't mean to. Sales are absolutely not a good way to determine the quality of a game and hence they wouldn't indicate games are getting better or worse.
It is a mainline entry and priced as a mainline entry as well. People didn't have an issue with Prologue having a lowered car count because it wasn't being treated as a mainline entry nor priced as one. This game is being treated like it and is priced like one. Even Kaz has said they were thinking about calling this GT7, but to indicate this being the new generation/direction of Gran Turismo, they called it Sport. Hence, it is a mainline entry and a racing sim game that will get compared content wise to previous mainline entries and other competitors on the market.
Graphics, sounds, performance, net code are part of the game's base systems and those are expected to improve with every new entry.. Livery editor and scapes would fall in the content category. Scapes is an extension of the GT5 & 6 modes. Livery editor is the only brand new content, but does not take the place of other content.
I agree with this, but the thing is in the past games the car count would be inflated via that for certain cars, but guess what, it still applies in this game. I think most cars in this game have 2 or 3 variants that are counting as unique cars, and that is being factored into the car count. So if we were to actually talk about actual unique cars and remove the variants, this game fares even worse.
matrix-cat
Member
If this post is anything to go by, that's exactly what you're getting anyway. They're still inflating the car count, it's just that they have so few cars to begin with this time that even the inflated count is sub-par:
from gtplanet:
I don't know why people want to pretend that content doesn't matter in a racing sim. More cars and more tracks to race them on and in more gameplay modes absolutely does make for a better game. Unquestionably. It's not a question of quality or quantity when just about every other racing sim these days can provide both; quality should be taken for granted at this point in the GT series.
One Evo in the entire game? If it's only one model per car, then yea that's a little disappointing.
On the flip side, the evo/sti have been using the same engine/transmissions in their cars with minor improvements. Other than a new chassis and slight improvement in suspension/handling, it's basically the same car.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
So just to be clear here you guys aren't getting the game right
I'm getting it when the regular non-sale price is less than $30 (CAD). Unless a proper GT7 is already announced by then, in which case I'll wait.
Depends on the type of content, but you guys make a good point and I understand why the tracks/cars are disappointing now.
They aren't unique cars, just a few variations of the same cars. Did PD address if they'll release new cars in the future or is it paid DLC?
sems4arsenal
Member
They've said there will be a lot of DLC cars. But who knows.
I agree about the Group 4 cars being slight dupes, but the GT3 class is fantastic (missing the 911 and the Ford GT to be perfect).
I've been following the game pretty close and just recently decided not to get it. GT4 was my first Gran Turismo and I bought GT5
, GT5 and GT6 day one, and though they were lacking in certain areas I put a ton of time into them and enjoyed them a lot. I know the series needed a breath of fresh air, but this just isn't the direction I hoped the series would go. The game looks beautiful, and the online portion of the game looks promising for those who enjoy a multiplayer experience. We finally have a livery editor as well! But the lack of a proper campaign, along with a lackluster car and track list means the game is getting a pass from me for now. Hopefully more cars and tracks will be added along the way and if we're lucky an inclusion of a more traditional Gran Turismo campaign. If that happens I'll be there.They're not doing it instead of. They didn't sacrifice Car 2 in order to make Car 1v2. Car 1v2 is a low-hanging fruit which they are taking advantage of as long as they already have Car 1.
GT Sport is looking like anything but Gran Turismo to me. How many unique cars and tracks are even gonna be in this game? I think the devs are really mistaking what people like about GT if they think car collection isnt a very big part of what makes GT, GT.
If they really wanna go this route theyd have to blow it out of the damn park with the multiplayer content, but Im pretty doubtful that we'll see anything truly amazing that makes it stand head over heels over other racing sims MP content.
If they really wanna go this route theyd have to blow it out of the damn park with the multiplayer content, but Im pretty doubtful that we'll see anything truly amazing that makes it stand head over heels over other racing sims MP content.
Inf3cted_b3ast
Member
Not day one for sure and I've been following this game ever since the reveal in London. Maybe down the line.
flipswitch
Member
So will this have less cars( not incl standards) and tracks than GT5?
seattle6418
Member
Because he is a hero for many of us.
Kaz is a legend and personally a great great guy, which is another reason why we can´t understand what´s going on.
They went from giving more than we could ever dream in GT1 and GT2 to..this... which appears to be a game made for nobody.
It´s their vision, and their vision was a lot like the one i had (and many others) 20 years ago. Now they kept going on a vision where nothing makes sense, and it´s so weird that t almost guarantees hundreds and hundreds of raging posts because this is not what anybody outside of PD wanted.
GTS will surely get blasted on reviews because it´s only trump card are the visuals.
For the first time it will be the worst in terms of content, single player modes, sounds are still awful, cars can´t be upgraded in a realistic way, there´s no dynamic weather, the list goes on and on and this is by far the latest a GT game has hit a PS console.
It took three years in the PS1, just one on PS2 and 3 (prologue was in 2007) and now the first glimpse of GT is hitting the PS4 FOUR years after the console release with the least amount of content ever.
People are mad because they expect so much out of GT. Can you guys imagine if GT was the only sim in town, how mad people would be that after 20 years waiting for Porsche the game will have ONE model?
GT has a lot to live up to and that´s why people are so angry. This isn´t Need for Speed or any other lackluster racing series, this was the king, the ultimate jack of all trades AND master of some that used to offer plenty of stuff for everybody.
To see what they did in GTS is just sad, because we can´t believe their vision for the game is so different from what most people want.
AstroNut325
Member
For the folks saying they understand the series needing a fresh breathe of air/new direction, but not liking the current direction of GTS, what direction would you want that's also a breathe of fresh air?
matrix-cat
Member
If I'm not mistaken, this game actually has fewer cars than Gran Turismo ONE on the original Playstation. That game only had eleven tracks, though, so at least we're ahead there.
AstroNut325
Member
Do people just not care for post-launch support or games that are set up for the GaaS paradigm?
NoctisVsStar
Member
A lot of games are either going for the service model or the e-sport route. Currently the situation sucks but in reality it's just the times we live in, the introduction of dlc and online updates have led to this. Just look at Capcom.. R* for the moment puts effort on SP but GTAO is cash cow.. 2k with VC. Things will continue heading down this road some folks are in for a rude awakening thinking about the good old days.
matrix-cat
Member
Personally, I don't think the series needed a new direction at all. GT is like a sports game or Mario Kart; you don't have to reinvent the wheel to make a new one. I feel like GT6 only sold 'poorly' because they brought it out on the PS3 when the audience wanted to move on to the PS4. All I really wanted from a new GT on the PS4 was:
- Locked 1080p 60FPS
- Get rid of the PS2 assets or remake them from the ground up, bring everything up to a consistent visual quality
- A streamlined interface, snappy load times, better difficulty options ala Forza, basically just quality of life stuff
- The usual meaty singleplayer setup of races, cups, enduro stuff, car-collecting, etc
I mean... no? I'd much rather have everything included in the original purchase than have to buy it all piecemeal afterwards. I kind of think that goes without saying.
1. Consistency in the presentation/graphics/framerate across all game modes including VR
2. Car selection covering modern staples and classics. Diversity of manufacturers.
3. Accurate sounds
4. Good collision tech and damage
5. Variety of in depth race disciplines such as Drag, Drift, Touge, Rally, etc
6. Robust online features, ranking systems and penalty (I think this is the only thing we got)
7. Dynamic weather conditions
Just to name a few.
AstroNut325
Member
In regards to your points on what you wanted out of GT on PS4, you're getting the first 3. I believe you're getting the races, cups, and stuff but they will be online/multiplayer based. I think people are writing of GTS multiplayer without giving it a fair shot.
In regards to your post-launch support comment, I'm not sure that's going to be the trend going forward. Just about everything and anything software has gone to the software-as-a-service model. This often entails a "bare essentials" launch with incremental improvements and additions over time. This is finding its way to videogames. I realize it's not sitting well with everyone, but I don't see the industry catering to the old ways for another decade.
flipswitch
Member
I also believe that GT5 left a bad taste in some people's mouth. Remember the 1hr installation at the beginning and constant updates. I just wanted to play the game.
Plus all the things you mentioned. Standard cars, loading times, clunky interface, inconsistent frame rate and visuals.. Felt like it wasn't finished. It was the reason I didn't get GT6, which is the only GT I haven't owned.
Cups should have also been offline, with improved AI. Online play will require PS+, a good way to alienate a bunch of fans who don't give a shit about online. Now all we got are a bunch of driving tutorials in the campaign that's aimed at teaching noobs how to drive properly online.
AstroNut325
Member
I don't disagree at all. I too want a significant offline single player campaign. I'm still holding hope that they expand the offline modes over time.
endlessflood
Member
Have PD announced what form post-launch support will take? Anything concrete? I haven't seen anything.
In terms of GaaS, have PD announced that that's their intention with GTS? I haven't seen anything on that front either.
I think both of those things could potentially be made to work in a GT context. The major issue for PD is that both models require the player base to trust them to deliver content in a timely fashion. Unfortunately, whatever else you might say about them, PD might be one of the worst devs in the industry with respect to delivering content in a timely fashion.
AstroNut325
Member
Yes, PD sucks at managing schedules. No one will dispute that. But they have a history of having great post-launch support for their games. GT5 for Spec 2.0, car packs, track packs, and more. Likewise for GT6. I have little concern about GTS's post-launch support.
Maintenance
Member
seattle6418
Member
Basically trying to do what Pcars is doing, which is basically a wish list game. I´m not saying it´s perfect, but many of us wanted GT to keep pushing for realism instead of doing moon races, vision GT cars and photo modes.
Of course there´s always someone saying "don´t speak for me, i like photos or x and y", but i´m talking about the average motorsports enthusiast, the one PD has no clue whatsoever.
Career sucked, but nobody wanted them to kill it, they could´ve done it properly, like a modern version of what Pro Race Driver tried to do in the PS2.
Reasonable expectations would be a laser focus on track and car lists, like using the license you have for Nascar and real tracks like Indy and Daytona instead of creating two fantasy weirdly banked oval tracks in a game that does not feature cars that race in oval tracks.
Having things like tire pressure adjustments instead of the same tuning mechanism they use since GT2...
I mean, we could probably do a list of 1000 things and never get the end of it, but basically it´s should be a game about cars, motorsports and car culture.
What we´re getting doesn´t fit into any of those categories, unless pictures, HDR, license tests and concept designs are what people were craving for.
Fredrik
Member
Yeah I don't even play online so you can just imagine how I feel about it at this point. :/
Collecting and upgrading cars while going through a long career mode has been GT for me since the PS1 days, so they're really trying hard to push ne away this time for some reason. I planned to get GTS day 1 but the more I hear about it the less I want it, after hearing about the performance issues on base PS4 I'm just gonna wait and see some faceoffs and reviews first, to me this really doesn't seem like a mainline GT, I still think they have been secretly working on GT7 too this whole time.
matrix-cat
Member
That might be the way things are going, but for now at least it seems like the devs of PCars and Forza are still willing and able to provide ample content in their base $60 games, so that's where my support will be going.
Yeah, it's pretty obvious GaaS is the end goal here.
Personally, I don't mind it being so low for now. I've been going through my racing games backlog and Forza 6 has me doing so many laps around Spa, Silverstone, Monza, Daytona, Indy etc. I have a feeling Forza 7 will do the same too. I'm ok to give those a break right now.
Absolutely cannot wait to drive around Dragon Trail, that looks like it could be a future classic.
I would have liked the return of Trial Mountain but who's to say that won't come back in a classic track pack down the line? For me, the game is missing Circuit de la Sarthe. But with the inclusion of Endurance Prototypes I can see PD holding that track back for a bit of polishing and releasing it at the time of the next Le Mans event. I also think that the FIA are homologating Spa and Monza, so once they are done with that, we may see those tracks release afterwards.
I only start caring about post-launch support if the game has a lot of content to begin with, or if a game is lacking in content the developer has been crystal clear as to what kind of free post-launch support they'll be providing and we can expect. I'm not just going to give a developer benefit of the doubt that the game will turn out fine with post launch support.
Evolution Studios did a terrific job in regards to outlining what their post-launch support was going to be like. And not only did they deliver, they ended up providing more than they promised. With PD's development history and speed of development, the almost guaranteed delays for every GT game they make lately, I don't think even with announced plans I'd feel safe getting their game on the promise of post launch support, I'd probably wait for a good chunk of that content to actually be out before purchasing the game.
Also, regarding GaaS. I don't like it at all, but if you want to set your game up as a platform or GaaS and it is relatively content light in comparison to past entries and competitors and you don't want people shitting on your game? Then don't make your game full priced. The whole point of GaaS (with that amount of content at launch) is better served with a lower barrier of entry initially with lots of continual post-launch support that encourages spending from the user.
SnowFlakeCake
Member
You what mate?
Sony own the IP, Sony pay the bills. Yamauchi is just an employee, one that was last useful over a decade ago.
I know, I am definitely part of the problem but this is all we are going to get from PD this generation, people are out their minds if they think we are getting GT7. This is it, Sony going after that GAAS money and like it or lump it, Sony gonna make serious bank this way. I know if nothing else, it will be a game supported for the rest of this generation with some ease so for 40 quid, I will bite. PD do have me by the balls, from the beta I played it was enjoyable as fuck, nothing else has been able to step up.
He just made a good game, there is nothing about him to be praised. When he was good, quite obviously the dude was on it something fierce because GT 1 to 3 in particular were amazing.
But the dude is a has been, it is time for some new blood. Like Tiger Woods who was the greatest but is now a useless piece of shit.
At the end of the day, GT Sport is going to sell well. It will make GAAS money something fierce, stupid amounts of money. Nothing else coming out in the sim world will sell close to it or make as much money, so it is up to PD with what they want to do. GT6 was the fuck up of all fuck ups releasing AFTER PS4 released on PS3, it still did 5 million. GT Sport is the only GT title coming out on PS4, of course it will do well financially but do not like the lack of content being released.
The DLC roadmap is going to be fierce as all fuck and yeah the GAAS makes sense for a racing game, for the game to be this bare bones after 4 years sucks.
You what mate?
Sony own the IP, Sony pay the bills. Yamauchi is just an employee, one that was last useful over a decade ago.
I know, I am definitely part of the problem but this is all we are going to get from PD this generation, people are out their minds if they think we are getting GT7. This is it, Sony going after that GAAS money and like it or lump it, Sony gonna make serious bank this way. I know if nothing else, it will be a game supported for the rest of this generation with some ease so for 40 quid, I will bite. PD do have me by the balls, from the beta I played it was enjoyable as fuck, nothing else has been able to step up.
He just made a good game, there is nothing about him to be praised. When he was good, quite obviously the dude was on it something fierce because GT 1 to 3 in particular were amazing.
But the dude is a has been, it is time for some new blood. Like Tiger Woods who was the greatest but is now a useless piece of shit.
At the end of the day, GT Sport is going to sell well. It will make GAAS money something fierce, stupid amounts of money. Nothing else coming out in the sim world will sell close to it or make as much money, so it is up to PD with what they want to do. GT6 was the fuck up of all fuck ups releasing AFTER PS4 released on PS3, it still did 5 million. GT Sport is the only GT title coming out on PS4, of course it will do well financially but do not like the lack of content being released.
The DLC roadmap is going to be fierce as all fuck and yeah the GAAS makes sense for a racing game, for the game to be this bare bones after 4 years sucks.
Never read so much flip-flopping in one post.
This is maybe the first GT coming out not in a vacuum - Forza 7 and PC2 at pretty much the same time will create inevitable comparisons.
PD have done a terrible job of simply explaining how the game is structured, and even basic functionality (people in here digging out potentially very different VR support vs official comments from preview videos for example)
I really want to get GT Sport, and so does my son. But the sensible thing to do is I think wait for PCars 2 and Forza 7 to come out, see reviews (and impressions) from all three games and then decide. Online racing is not my cup of tea (Forza 5 made me rage almost instantly with people spinning me around) so I prefer a robust offline option. I dont need a million tracks, but more than a handful would be nice. And the cars just confuse the hell out of me. PD have been future proofing the models since GT5 and yet with GT6 and 7 they seem to talk about starting from scratch. Not like those were GT4 standard models, theyd have been fine in GT7. Just a waste to throw them away and not reuse them.
PD for me is the pinnacle of wtf regarding game development.
PD have done a terrible job of simply explaining how the game is structured, and even basic functionality (people in here digging out potentially very different VR support vs official comments from preview videos for example)
I really want to get GT Sport, and so does my son. But the sensible thing to do is I think wait for PCars 2 and Forza 7 to come out, see reviews (and impressions) from all three games and then decide. Online racing is not my cup of tea (Forza 5 made me rage almost instantly with people spinning me around) so I prefer a robust offline option. I dont need a million tracks, but more than a handful would be nice. And the cars just confuse the hell out of me. PD have been future proofing the models since GT5 and yet with GT6 and 7 they seem to talk about starting from scratch. Not like those were GT4 standard models, theyd have been fine in GT7. Just a waste to throw them away and not reuse them.
PD for me is the pinnacle of wtf regarding game development.
Audioboxer
Member
Oh, they'll reuse them, when they charge everyone for "legacy GT car packs". Enjoy paying for the cars you got to race in 5/6.
why would they, it's going to sell millions regardless
Dee Dah Dave
Member
Yes I bet this game sells the most of any racer this holiday on an individual console. Kaz will be fine.
GT selling on name alone is why Kaz can do what the fuck he wants.
GT selling on name alone is why Kaz can do what the fuck he wants.
Business
Member
I agree.
Wow I don't recall ever seeing contrails on a skybox before.
PackAPunchedMick
Member
This is going to be a modern warfare 2 "not getting the game" type affair isn't it?
Bitch and moan all you like, GTS will outsell both fm7 and pc2 combined.
Bitch and moan all you like, GTS will outsell both fm7 and pc2 combined.
TheAdmiester
Member
GTA5 has them, but yeah it's not very common.
I don't see anyone in here doubting this game outselling those titles, so this honestly just comes off as purely childish.
Also, there were plenty of people that skipped out on GT6 due to it not being on PS4, I don't doubt for a second that people will be willing to skip out on this game. I already stated I'd want my GT fix when it's available for cheaper (when the standard price set by Sony is lower, not some retailer sale), I had the game preordered on cheap (nearly 50% off) yet cancelled it. As a result I am actually actively looking into FM7 this year despite not having bought a Forza Motorsport game since Forza 3, since GT5 coming out raised the baseline of what I expect from a game in the genre.
Still don't doubt for a second this game will be selling well. It has the GT name. It has GT gameplay. It is the first GT game to come out on PS4 as well. Just those factors alone are going to make it a multi-million seller. How its sales legs are and overall sales are compared to other entries in the franchise is the real thing that's up in the air.
Thinking about it, skipping GT6 because Id already switched to PS4, does make it a little easier to consider skipping GTS. But I do want a racer this year. I also skipped Forza 6 so I havent had a good sim(ish) racer since maybe Forza 5 which wasnt great IMO
Cars and tracks will be added through DLCs. It's obvious that racing games are evolving towards the GaaS model. I don't think that 17 locations is bad at launch.
The problem with Polyphony is that they're slow and their development priorities are messed up so in their games there are elements that are state of the art while other aspects are seriousy lacking. They need to hire good project managers and people who take a serious look at the competition to understand where they're lacking.
But I fear that this won't happen unless sales become bad and Sony steps in.
The problem with Polyphony is that they're slow and their development priorities are messed up so in their games there are elements that are state of the art while other aspects are seriousy lacking. They need to hire good project managers and people who take a serious look at the competition to understand where they're lacking.
But I fear that this won't happen unless sales become bad and Sony steps in.
I'm also looking forward to FM7. But fuck me, those AI Drivertars will drive you nutty. They absolutely suck (even on the hardest, most aggressive settings) and thats why I appreciate the Sport mode in GT.
Hopefully the driver rating system is a game changer for the genre and will make facing off against real people online way better than lifeless AI all the time. I'm also hoping that the systems and SP tests will make people who play this game, effectively, better drivers ready for the online aspect.
EDIT: I've also just considered that the meaty SP campaign and car/track count is weighing in here. Thats also why I'm going for FM7 in addition to GTS