-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
How would you react to a Metroid reboot w/ a black Samus
- Thread starter Spring-Loaded
- Start date
I know. It's not like all there IP's are the generic badass white guy that everyone else seems to do. Nintendo seems to be getting better. We just got these this year:
It's a step in the right direction.
Sun & Moon was last year, we need moar!
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
Unless they pull a Zelda and have it be a different Samus then I would be against it. There's diversity with purpose and then there's diversity for its own sake and this would 100% be the latter. Diversity needs to be done with intent to be truly impactful and not just 'cause. Samus would not be the same character if she were black and it doing so would defeat the purpose of acknowledging how racial diversity affects people. Even if the story would never touch on it specifically, how people accept or reject aspects associated with their race, gender or sexuality inform a well written character. Having black Samus be exactly the same as current Samus would completely gloss over this and imo would ultimately be a step backwards for racial diversity in games.
But at the same time, I do understand the want to just have a black female protagonist since we are in desperate need of having them and while it wouldn't be imo the best first step, it's in a sense far better than what we're doing now. Ideally we would just have games with diverse casts and protagonists be the norm and not have there be a 'default' character type but expecting that change to happen overnight is unrealistic.
Extra Credits have a few good videos on the subject of gender and racial diversity in games and I would recommend checking them out:
Rust - Representing Racial Diversity in Games (This video talks about the importance of diversity and the struggles that non-white people may have in just trying to find a character they relate to)
True Female Characters - How to Write Deep and Interesting Characters (This video talks about how societal pressures and how a character reacts to them are important to defining a character, among other things)
Race in Games - Racial Tensions in LA Noire as Character Development (This video is less related to the Black Samus discussion but is still interesting)
So yeah. Conclusion: I would be mixed on it. I can see the appeal and I wouldn't be fundamentally upset if it were to happen but I do believe it's very far from an ideal solution and that we, and the Metroid series, would be better served with a new playable character rather than just changing an established character if it were to go the route of having a black protagonist.
But at the same time, I do understand the want to just have a black female protagonist since we are in desperate need of having them and while it wouldn't be imo the best first step, it's in a sense far better than what we're doing now. Ideally we would just have games with diverse casts and protagonists be the norm and not have there be a 'default' character type but expecting that change to happen overnight is unrealistic.
Extra Credits have a few good videos on the subject of gender and racial diversity in games and I would recommend checking them out:
Rust - Representing Racial Diversity in Games (This video talks about the importance of diversity and the struggles that non-white people may have in just trying to find a character they relate to)
True Female Characters - How to Write Deep and Interesting Characters (This video talks about how societal pressures and how a character reacts to them are important to defining a character, among other things)
Race in Games - Racial Tensions in LA Noire as Character Development (This video is less related to the Black Samus discussion but is still interesting)
So yeah. Conclusion: I would be mixed on it. I can see the appeal and I wouldn't be fundamentally upset if it were to happen but I do believe it's very far from an ideal solution and that we, and the Metroid series, would be better served with a new playable character rather than just changing an established character if it were to go the route of having a black protagonist.
We need moar gamez! Plus sun and moon has only been out 7 months.
Eolz
Member
But she's been white and athletic forever. Since more than a decade, we've seen her often outside her suit (since Zero/Fusion). She's been marketed heavily since that time, and even more since she's in Smash Bros Brawl.
She has an established look. I really don't see what's hard in understanding that. We're not about changing the design of the armor, which already irritates many fans.
It's about taking the name of an existing character, and slapping it on a different one. She's not Master Chief or Batman, she has an identity.
Can we stop acting as if people were only thinking about her armor? Hell, there's even the bad Other M ZSS design available as an avatar for the Switch.
edit: it's not a question of "it's not iconic so we can change her race for no reason". It's part of her identity.
Nathan Drake being white isn't what is iconic about him either. Same for Lara Croft.
I don't think that being white is what make someone iconic at all (unless you count Michael Jackson I guess...). This is some really illogical reasoning.
tl;dr colored people need a reason to exist, white people don't
Eolz
Member
How do you even come down to that conclusion? That's not what he said at all, nor what the links were about...
Idk. I'd be surprised, for one thing.
Depends on the design as to how much I'd like it. They've moved Samus more into stereotypical sex pot build and away from large athletic woman, so perhaps a reset to black makes them change the design for the better? Or perhaps they continue on short, huge-boobed, high-heeled Samus path and just make her black?
But ultimately, I don't see it being a big deal for me either way.
Depends on the design as to how much I'd like it. They've moved Samus more into stereotypical sex pot build and away from large athletic woman, so perhaps a reset to black makes them change the design for the better? Or perhaps they continue on short, huge-boobed, high-heeled Samus path and just make her black?
But ultimately, I don't see it being a big deal for me either way.
tl;dr people of colour should be able to be their own people not reskins
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
That's not at all what I said. I'm saying if you're going to have the protagonist be black, put in the effort and make a new character with that in mind. Simply applying black skin to an established character is lazy and does a disservice to everyone.
Hell yeah.
Heart of Black
Member
I'd buy her album (or rather, I already did!)
KLoWn
Member
I'm sorry, what?
Eolz
Member
So having a different hair color is the same?
He literally starts by saying
then follows up with
I mean outside of Other M, samus is pretty much a walking badass in armor who rarely talks. Her whiteness has nothing to do with any of her backstory depicted in the manga either. She could literally be any race and would change nothing about her character.
you got it! samus' genetics don't have a consistent canon
Eolz
Member
She could, but she's not.
Again, like it's fine having spiderman or captain falcon be black: those are monickers, different identities.
Having Nathan Drake, Lara Croft, Samus or Mario black is not the same: those are established characters, with their own identity, even if their race doesn't have an impact their exploits/story/etc.
I really don't see what is hard to understand about that, nor why people don't want a new character instead of just doing some race change (or some gender bender for some other characters). The former should be encouraged. The latter is just changing an established character because you're mad/sad/disappointed/etc about your favorite character not being like you, or worse, for no reason at all.
edit:
She's blonde in all of her games bar this one. What if she just got a different color at the space hairdresser?
Her genetics have a consistent canon, as seen since her Super Metroid sprite (not related to a manual illustration done by NOA) and from all comments from Sakamoto.
Considering one of the things I value most is character design, and having a consistent idea of what Samus looks like is important when I think of her and the image that comes to mind, I would say it's absolutely a part of it.
A new black Samus could be the coolest, most badass, most relatable character to come out of the medium of videogames, and I'd love her, but I'd still be like "that's not Samus"
But hair color can naturally change though.
I don't think that was the point of the post. But I do wonder how does the whiteness of Samus define her, how does it show in her actions and thoughts. What would be the dissonance for Samus being black. How would the character be different if she was made black from the start. Other than the visual appearance.
Eolz
Member
"How is a black/asian character different when s/he's white in a movie adaptation?"
I don't understand. Who is this quote from and what is the context.
Someone like Lincoln Clay in Mafia 3 has to be black for everything to work as it does. Being black is huge part of the character and themes of the game, not only the appearance. Nathan Drake and Samus being white though, is that crucial? What traits in their nature or their past couldn't be associated with people of color?
"If you want a black Samus, just make a new character!"
Yeah, and if people of color want an education, they should open their own schools!
And if they want jobs, they should open their own businesses!
And if they want nice homes the should go build their own neighbourhoods!
I would be interested to see a black Samus, female Link, gay Mario or an Arab Professor Oak. They're just fictional characters.
Yeah, and if people of color want an education, they should open their own schools!
And if they want jobs, they should open their own businesses!
And if they want nice homes the should go build their own neighbourhoods!
I would be interested to see a black Samus, female Link, gay Mario or an Arab Professor Oak. They're just fictional characters.
Pacific Islander Kirby would be pretty sweet
ScientificPizza
Banned
What does being athletic have to do with anything
Samus has little to no identity outside of her suit with the exception of other m. Acting like whiteness is such an integral part of her character is stupid and false, because it isn't. Before zero suit samus was a smash character "metroid is a lady" was a trivia fact. acting as though her being white is important to her identity is pure garbage
Eolz
Member
It's the equivalent of you saying "What would be the dissonance for Samus being black. How would the character be different if she was made black from the start. Other than the visual appearance.", but the other way.
Seriously, at this point I wonder if those threads are just not made by some people angry that an established character that was either female or non-white got gender/race swapped in some adaptation.
It happens for Hollywood movies, but I've never seen it happen for any videogame character.
There still hasn't been a single good reason in any of those threads shown on why an established character (be it Samus, Link, etc) should be completely changed. None.
Just "yeah but it wouldn't change her/his icon status". But why? Especially more intriguing when those are characters existing since 25+ years, with an established lore, canon, fanbase, etc.
KLoWn
Member
This post. I don't even...
Why change Link to Toon Link? Why change Mario into a piece of paper?
Gotdatmoney
Member
I don't care either way but my issue with changing established characters is that they don't get to be recognized off the strength of their game or characterization or w/e. I would rather have a AAA dev be bold and create a game with a Indian man main character or a Black woman and push that to be big on it's own merits and believe in it tham change another character. Because at the end of the day Black Samus wont be canon to her representation in further games or media.
It's like, when the next smash comes out is black Samus gonna be the default? Is black Inkling? Nope. So then I would rather have characters all their own leading the charge saying "hey, you can create unique minority characters and sell 10 million units and gamers love them".
That's just me though.
It's like, when the next smash comes out is black Samus gonna be the default? Is black Inkling? Nope. So then I would rather have characters all their own leading the charge saying "hey, you can create unique minority characters and sell 10 million units and gamers love them".
That's just me though.
so basically metroid prime echos.....but instead of chasing dark samus, we would be chasing Illuminated Samus
Metroid Prime: Divergent?
Also.....it doesn't bother me period......but due to her original nature. There would have to be lore behind it, otherwise they are just making her black for the sake of being black.......which isn't really great. I want history, character, personality here! Maybe you play the Samus from the parallel universe? You are Dark Samus but see Light Samus as the enemy, I don't know I'm just rambling on shit here.
Metroid Prime: Divergent?
Also.....it doesn't bother me period......but due to her original nature. There would have to be lore behind it, otherwise they are just making her black for the sake of being black.......which isn't really great. I want history, character, personality here! Maybe you play the Samus from the parallel universe? You are Dark Samus but see Light Samus as the enemy, I don't know I'm just rambling on shit here.
UnnecessaryTodd
Member
Pretty much this, but to go into it further it's not about race defining a character but how it is a part of who a person is, it's an integral part of who we all are just as much as gender or sexuality. It informs how people react to that character as well. Admittedly of all games and all characters, Metroid/Samus is sparse when it comes to character building and character interaction but it's about the principle of it being something that should be thought of when designing a character and not treated as an afterthought in the way that simply changing her skin to be "diverse" would make it. Maybe the characters in Other M would treat her differently if she had different skin, maybe they wouldn't, but it's the thought process in writing it that makes it important.
how does not wanting to change a fictional character's skin color have anything to do with being against civil rights
Although it is slowly beginning to change, there already aren't that many white female protagonists in video games (even if there are more than black ones), so I'd rather they keep Samus the same and make a new character than convert her from one underrepresented demographic to another.
Eolz
Member
Wha-
What's the relationship between an established videogame (or book/whatever) character and political/social issues in the real world? Are you serious right now?
Samus is the same character, in the same storyline (even if it's a mess) since 30 years or so. She has an identity, she is an established character, with the same genetics, background, etc.
Acting like Samus wasn't considered a woman before ZSS became a Smash character, and that identity was a trivia fact outside of the end of Metroid 1 is alternative facts as someone would say...
What is pure garbage is acting as if it would be perfectly fine to change an established character after 30 years for no reason. The IP isn't dead, Nintendo is still doing merchandising on both her armored and ZS designs, and she's not even some reincarnation between games like Link.
As said about 5 times now, there's still no good reason why this should change. None. 0.
Just trying to find a flaw in other arguments, instead of proving why yours is so good (it's really, really not).
Well I added this to my post in the edit. Someone like Lincoln Clay in Mafia 3 has to be black for everything to work as it does. Being black is huge part of the character and themes of the game, not only the appearance. Nathan Drake and Samus being white though, is that crucial? What traits in their nature or their past couldn't be associated with people of color?
And people who are upset of whitewashing in movies are upset because it's a lost role for minority who are underrepresented. We don't have similar lack of white people.
But I do agree that better solution is to create new characters.
spazchicken
Member
Please don't let this turn into the new female Link nonsense.
Nothing would make me happier than more diversity in games but we need new black characters, not some other character's sloppy seconds conversion that changes the identity of said character.
Nothing would make me happier than more diversity in games but we need new black characters, not some other character's sloppy seconds conversion that changes the identity of said character.