schaft0620
Member
Bryan said "many villains many many villains and a lot of characters."
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An Inside Look at Marvels Spider-Man
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Again I wouldn't even agree with that even not coming from an animation perspective as first and foremost all the transitions are really fast whenever the guy moves.
Like in this day and age in comparison with the superb visuals that looks very video gamey to me. Just something I really hope they work on like the transition between Infamous's e3 demo and the final game.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Hello Halloween costume of 2017"I hate the suit"
Said no one ever.
DevilSnake
Member
Visuals look good but hope they really polish these animations as they look a bit unnatural the way he switches between them:
Agreed, they've got a fantastic set of animations but non existent/ very little blending between them compared to something like the Arkham games, reminds me of the earlier spiderman games.
It kind of works for a comic style game, it would work perfectly if they added bam, splat etc in pop ups boxes. But I wouldn't mind some smoother transitions, provided we don't get to witcher 3 territory where animations take priority over input.
DriftingSpirit
Member
Nice.
Lets agree to disagree here than!! I haven't heard any complain on my end, but again as i said they are really excited by the reveal, all though some of them had some reservation regarding other aspects, buts thats it.
Again not seeing how fast transition make the game look video gamey. sorry.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You're not being specific at all. I'm seeing better animation blending and variety in Batman than in these short snippets of gameplay from this game. I still say goddamn at some of the stuff they did.
The only award that ACU won was for character animation. And for very good reason. The amount of character animation in that game is genuinely absurd to the point that three years later it still holds up.
Look at how little of a blend there is between when he lands after kicking that guy and when he's fully standing up my dude. Or how fast he moves from crouching to moving. Or how in that combat gif above there's no blend whatsoever between the final hit of the combo and the finisher where he launches himself in the air and how launching himself to the ground so quickly transitions back into the idle pose. These aren't even like very subtle things they're incredibly obvious to see. Take for instance how he goes from swinging to wall running but they put in a little bit where he moves his arms toward the wall. Since he's moving at such a fast speed I think it'd be better to have him crawl just a little bit and transition that into a full sprint.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
I don't think I can want this game more than I already do. It looks soo fun, can't wait to scratch that web slinging itch again.
"I hate the suit"
Said no one ever.
I miss the red boots but that's about it, surprised how well a large white spider emblem works on the chest.
onemanasylum
Banned
Crossing Eden putting in over time again in another Playstation exclusive thread.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Oh lol is this the part where you accuse me of being an xbox fanboy or where're you going with this because that would be a hilarious accusation first and foremost. Or maybe you missed how in the last playstation exclusive thread I used two different playstation exclusive as an example of how the unreleased playstation exclusive could improve when it comes to their character animation Honestly, you're insanely intellectually dishonest when it comes to anything playstation. You spent the last exclusive thread trying to convince people, some of whom are actual animators, that you can't see weight in animation.
Can't be that precise on web but anyway.
His movement looks like it's straight out of the fucking movies. Insomniac is doing an incredible job.
"what's Blending animation?" "what's inbetween pose?" "What's is Cushion?" ask a casual guy. I am not talking about that there are absolutely no issue with transition or animation and that they can fix or not. Just about how most of the gamers will perceive. looking back at the reveal gameplay trailer , I hardly saw anyone complaining about it, and most of them were praising the animation especially. That is my point. What is obvious to you and could be highlighted in Gifs may not be to others.
Equanimity
Member
Lord have mercy. Spider-Man is in a different (better) league than the two games you have mentioned.
Liabe Brave
Member
All these "problems" seem to be you assuming that the animation is supposed to look like a human doing these things. But the fundamental basis of the character is that he is far faster and stronger than any person. His acceleration period is too short to see, his strikes, flips, and jumps happen as quickly as he can think them, and he can grab and stop a car without having to exert himself much.
The portrayals of these actions look "wrong" to you because people can't do them, but what if that's the point? We don't know specifics of the animators' goals, but representing superpower visually could be intentional. Rather than striving for humanity, they're choosing to emphasize the stated (unrealistic) capacity of the character. An artistic choice, not the "errors" you think you see.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
That's straight up taken right out of ASM2 and is actually my favorite moment.
His movement looks like it's straight out of the fucking movies. Insomniac is doing an incredible job.
actually now that I think about it, I hope the add this little detail that always made the films look amazing, the subtle swaying of the arms caused by free falling:
^
Glorious, although not sure if feasible with a physics based web slinging system that prioritizes input over animation priority.
I think you're not giving people enough credit. Sure they won't know the specific terminology, but they can tell when something looks slightly off. Like animations in isolation looking good but not very good with blending. Take for instance the reaction to the new Mordor game.
Tell that to the animators who worked on the films, (which as I showed above, the animators on this game are directly using as reference ofc), and added those little nuances that i'm talking about because the absence of them ends up looking quite stiff in comparison. Which is sorta the opposite effect you wanna have. And we're playing as the dude. So he should be fast in comparison to the enemies but very very easily identifiable by us.
pixelation
Member
FWIW i always see you on PS exclusive threads being critical and i honestly can't remember you rarely (if ever) complimenting one. Might just be that you tend to be a more critical person i don't know.
onemanasylum
Banned
You are posting over, and over and over the tiniest imperfections, that no one will even notice or care about, trying way too hard. I mean almost everyone in this thread , first thing they notice is how good it looks, and how good the animation is.... It's not the first Sony exclusive you do this with. There is proper critique, then there is trying too hard.
The only thing I don't really like is that the back spider overlaps the red area of the suit and it looks off."I hate the suit"
Said no one ever.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Then you need to follow my posts more closely, again, a ridiculous accusation.
It's almost like me and others are having a discussion about why we disagree or something. Something you're free to take part in instead of pathetically accusing me of having some sort of agenda against Sony's exclusives. Should I just be "graphics and animation are amazing. Period" and that be the end of it?
Literally all I said was that I hope they polish the animations blending up and used specific examples of where I take issue with it. That's not trying to hard. Not gonna apologize for offering critique. And I genuinely don't care if "no one will notice."
panama chief
Member
You guys can criticize Crossing Eden all you want, that poster is right tho. The animations are happening way too quick in those specific instances. And if you think your favorite reviewer or Joe public won't see it, you're sadly mistaken.
Outside of that, beautiful game. Can't wait.
Outside of that, beautiful game. Can't wait.
Ploid 3.0
Member
onemanasylum
Banned
Joe Public or reviewers won't even see it, as well it's not too fast, it's a design decision...Spidey is not a normal human.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I mean you gotta love how inoffensive my posts ITT are too.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
I have no horse in this race and ppl shouldn't be coming at crossings neck but no at the bolded get out the gaf bubble
WordsintheWater
Member
I see what you're talking about in the clips, the transitions between moves aren't as smooth as you would like, but when it comes to the movies and comparing it to the game isn't that unfair as you have many different things you can do in the game at any given time, but in a movie it's all set.
Your average joe failed to see it in E3 gameplay reveal thread, might be they were busy inspecting the amount of QTE to gameplay
panama chief
Member
But, you guys see the animation and the speed there, you can easily assume others won't?.....
I know spidey is fast. But cmon. What's being asked for here is smoothness in transitions of moments not in your control. The entire moment where he throws out the webs and jump kicks, that's not you pressing jump and kick, that's the end of a combo(finisher). Why shouldn't that play out with a bit more smoothness? Cause he's fast? Really?
He lands on a wall in full sprint ignoring geometry of windows. There has to be some accountability for his landing. There is none. That's the argument.
Frozenprince
Banned
Just make the Peter Parker bits Persona-lite and I'm fucking down.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I understand the difference between perfectly polished movie moments and the sacrifices that have to be made to accommodate the fact that you're constantly directly interacting with stuff. I mean some of these things are absolutely feasible but more expensive and time consuming to do and aren't actually not that difficult to implement animation wise. Like just the little nuance of of easing into an idle pose adds a lot imho, so when Spiderman does something this. Instead of stopping on a dime, they include a small transition like this. He's sticky so his feet stop him but his upper body still reacts to that sudden loss in momentum. That sort of stuff is pretty common place at this point in triple A games, regardless of character and wouldn't sacrifice playability compared to having to wait for Max to get up after bullet time in Max Payne 3 or literally any action in GTAV. THAT'S the point where animation is constantly a hindrance.
Ohhh man that sounds nice.
NinjaBoiX
Member
The point I'm making is that he's been around for so long and been tweaked and morphed so much over the years that he's basically a transient shell of a character.
Yeah, he's a high school kid that swings around the city as a superhero but I can't see how anyone could become so attached that they "feel him in their heart" to a character that is basically a Lycra suit with someone wisecracks stitched on.
Also, don't be talking trash about my man Gump.
GravityInsanity
Member
For me it's clearly hands down the best animation I've ever seen in a game. I've played all the Batman Arkham and Uncharted games and this just looks better and more smoother. It really looks light you're playing a Spider-Man movie.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
It's missing a lot of the nuances that make the animation in those movies look so good so I definitely disagree. Then ofc there's games with literally pitch perfect animation due to small scale. Like Inside. Good lord Inside is perfection. It's the best that Spiderman has looked in a game but bafflingly still has the same issues that I remember having with the past spiderman games when it came to the animation blending.
Because this is a discussion forum, not a hivemind where we all just say good things about games and offer nothing in the way of critique.
Liabe Brave
Member
No, they choose to add them because they thought it worked for their artistic goals. However, you keep speaking as if the absence of a particular approach is an error. What you find natural and appealing may not be their goal. Of course you're free to dislike other styles, but that's not how your language reads. You seem to be insisting that any deviation from the style you suggest is a limitation of skill, budget, or time. It's always a "sacrifice", coming up short of the one ideal, any deviation from which is a demerit.
Think about how this approach would work applied to animation of other things. Is the water in Sea of Thieves terrible because it doesn't use the same approach as Assassin's Creed Origins (or vice versa)? Of course everyone recognizes these as different intents, rather than failure in either case. The same is true of more subtle differences, as with the way characters animate in "realistic" video games. Realism is not a block truth here.
Equanimity
Member
Yeah it's definitely up there with Uncharted 4.
Batman AK is the second best thing.
ACU, ACS and ACO animations are not good enough to compare with Spider-Man PS4, in my opinion.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
So what kinda villain is kingpin anyway I see from the concept art he has a gun is he just a regular thug
WordsintheWater
Member
I get it, and I'm not disagreeing with you, the transitional animations could be better, but if they end up coming out like this I won't have an issue. And transitional animations come at a cost of response to controller inputs don't they? Having a fast moving character like Spider-Man that is capable of a lot of motion look completely smooth in a game is a very tall order.
Oh, well now I understand what you were saying and Gump is the man, just not as much of the man as Spider-Man
Equanimity
Member
Yeah Spider-Man Wilson Fisk might be similar to what we see in the Daredevil Netflix series.
DriftingSpirit
Member
I don't think he has any special power or anything. He is just really strong and durable relative to a regular person. He is also known for his smarts and crime dealings.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
And because without them the animation wouldn't look as good and would likely look a lot more like a video game despite the high fidelity, which has occurred in films before.
Game animation literally works in the way of sacrifices having to be made due to constantly having to factor in player input. However, a lot of studios come up with ways around this. Whether it's creating an absurdly large library of animations that don't directly impede on player input, (Batman AK and ACU), or creating pitch perfect animation, (Inside), there's a lot of ways that improvements can be made based on those nuances already being seen in other games.
Neither are lacking in that regard.
The game literally has some of the best visuals in the open world genre, so having overtly video gamey animation, (kinda like the very gamey QTE prompts), sorta directly goes against that goal.
Depends on the type of animation. These don't as they blend into the idle pose/walk cycle/run cycle and the player is moving at the same speed or slightly slower than they would be otherwiseex1, ex2,
however depending on the game they sometimes can directly affect player input to an undesirable degree. Like whenever a character gets up in a Rockstar game. For instance I actually just looked up some footage of Arkham Knight and Batman already has what I was talking about earlier with the swaying arms and feet while he free falls.
I just bought mine from RPC Studios a few days ago
Blue, Red, or Silver. What's color PS4/Pro do you all think Sony might release with this?
What a rabbit hole! Thank you! Have a Roarshach mask with moving inkblots activated by the heat from breathing. This type of stuff is cool.
I just bought mine from RPC Studios a few days ago
What a rabbit hole! Thank you! Have a Roarshach mask with moving inkblots activated by the heat from breathing. This type of stuff is cool.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I agree with Eden but at the same time, said lack of blending doesn't really bother me at all. But I can definitely understand what Eden is talking about.