I wasn't talking about Albania actually just Sudan
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Right-wing 'Defend Europe' Identitarians charter ship to intercept & return migrants
- Thread starter hobblygobbly
- Start date
I wasn't talking about Albania actually just Sudan
His Majesty
Banned
Boko Haram is active in Croatia? Or am I interpreting this data incorrectly?
Sunster
Member
yea it's a very strange map. I linked it for the details below. those dots just give the name of the countries. idk why.
Well done, this is the shittiest response I have read on GAF this week.
cromofo
Member
TIL Boko Haram is active in my country. The more you learn...
Defending your borders is a sane response really. Majority of these people are not refugees but illegal immigrants and should be treated as such. You have every right to guard your borders from what is essentially a criminal activity.
Empathy and feelings are all fine and dandy but are useless when it clouds rationality. Open borders is a colossal shitstorm.
Well this is a new one lmao
<3 just being a bit sarcastic.
I think a lot of people here have no idea how hard it is. To take a dangerous trip, in which many die, to Europe for a better life. It's not because they are bored or want a new iphone 7. It's for the betterment of their lives. If you can't understand this, then please just don't say anything.
ClosingADoor
Member
Open borders is fine, as long as the outer borders are protected. There is little reason for a border between Austria and its neighbors. But in this case, the EU is failing to actually help Italy in stopping this stream of immigrants.
I still can't believe we have pretty much daily incidents of trouble in asylum centers, but apparently keeping these guys inside is not possible. Or that they aren't always taken into custody when their stay is denied, having them go around Europe trying again somewhere else. The whole system is a mess.
You can understand this and still think it is a bad idea for these people to do.
Why is it so? Explain it to me, please?
FYI former (?) refugee/asylum seeker here, I have seen enough asylum camps, food packages and hate from the locals. So please enlighten me.
ClosingADoor
Member
The current way things are you have people risking their lives on a dangerous journey, with risk of abuse of even dying. Mostly young men can make the journey, while the more vulnerable stay behind. Meanwhile smugglers are making billions from this. When arriving in Europe, there are little prospects for most of these people, leading to them going into an illegal life here. Because it are mostly young men, these are also risk groups with more crime and trouble.
At the same time, the receiving countries in Europe can not handle this amount of people year after year. If this continues, you will see increasing pushback against immigration and more extreme solutions. To prevent this, we need an actual system that will bring people over in smaller amounts, while creating safe spaces for them in their region which will be cheaper and help more people.
You can acknowledge that these people want a better live, while at the same time being critical of the way that is currently being done, which is leading to bad results.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
This is a multi-faceted issue without a clear answer.
You have politicians on the left that want to ignore the issue, people stuck in the middle that live in these countries that want something to be done, and then people on the far right that get completely racist and violent about the whole thing.
Taking in this many people into these countries is unsustainable in the long run. This board has to quick of a penchant for attacking posters labeling these people as economic migrants instead of refugees or asylum seekers. The latter were fine categorical labels when the initial immigration was spurred by war in the middle east. If your reason for going to another country is because of better pay, living standards, or social benefits, you aren't an asylum seeker. Believe me I am sympathetic to people that strive for a better life for themselves and their family. Life in their home countries doesn't offer a lot of opportunities. They've been fucked by colonial history for too long. Like I said there isn't a good answer to solve any of this.
You have politicians on the left that want to ignore the issue, people stuck in the middle that live in these countries that want something to be done, and then people on the far right that get completely racist and violent about the whole thing.
Taking in this many people into these countries is unsustainable in the long run. This board has to quick of a penchant for attacking posters labeling these people as economic migrants instead of refugees or asylum seekers. The latter were fine categorical labels when the initial immigration was spurred by war in the middle east. If your reason for going to another country is because of better pay, living standards, or social benefits, you aren't an asylum seeker. Believe me I am sympathetic to people that strive for a better life for themselves and their family. Life in their home countries doesn't offer a lot of opportunities. They've been fucked by colonial history for too long. Like I said there isn't a good answer to solve any of this.
I agree with the first part. And most refugees know this, but they still take this journey. Must be really shitty back home to take this dangerous trip. Nevertheless they will do this.
And yes the problems should be solved at the home countries. But I don't see that happening for the foreseeable future. I even think this is impossible. At this moment our mindset as humanity doesn't allow us that. We think to much in groups (countries/places) to understand the suffering of others. We just don't care.
ClosingADoor
Member
If solving the problems in those countries is impossible, then should we just move these hundreds of millions of people? That is also not a solution.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Many immigrants are attracted by Europe's wealth and its generous social welfare systems. These systems are paid for by the employed, working citizens of a country. That system can only keep on working if the small group of working citizens can pay for the upkeep and welfare of everyone who doesn't. When you bring in hundreds of thousands of people who don't have enough qualifications to get (and keep) a job during their productive years (20-65), it means that they've only fed off the welfare system instead of adding to it. You can't keep importing unqualified immigrants who'll only costs money forever. At some point this will have consequences for everyone because there's less money to go around.
Take for instance these Dutch newspaper articles:
https://www.volkskrant.nl/binnenland/vluchtelingen-dreigen-onderklasse-te-worden~a4218617/
http://www.ad.nl/binnenland/stop-massa-immigratie-om-verzorgingsstaat-betaalbaar-te-houden~aae4b1cb/
I think according to the UN, the amount of refugees on the move where around 50 million.
Source:
http://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html
Not hundred of millions.
That's 10% of the EU's total population, though, and I'm assuming that only covers recognised refugees and not economic migrants.
johancruijff
Banned
ClosingADoor
Member
Yes, but you said that the issues in their countries will not be solved. So even if you bring over a million people to Europe, next year you have another million new people with exactly the same problems. Just moving them around is not going to solve anything, and at some point there are too many people for the systems in Europe to handle. We want to give everyone a good living standard, but that is only possible to some extend as the poster above also says. Otherwise you are just moving people from poverty in their home country to poverty in Europe.
Sunster
Member
sorry, I agree with this post but smugglers making billions? I have a hard time believing that. did you mean all smugglers collectively? if you did that's kind of a weird way to put it.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Besides that, the first priority of any government is to ensure the prosperity of its own citizens, not to solve the problems of the rest of the world.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
Yup.
Yeah, but that is only addressing half of what the poster said. You WOULD be allowing refugees into Europe by marrying them, but not doing anything about white supremacists.
The appropriate action would be, marry a refugee, send one white supremacist to Mars (or into the sun, or to the bottom of the ocean, I could care less for those shitheads).
...it's actually scary that i can't really blame people for starting to follow politicians like Meloni/Salvini
Even my lgbt friends are willing to put up with the center right bullshit just with the promise to fix the immigration issue
ClosingADoor
Member
Yes, smugglers, as in the group. Not individually. But there are people getting rich of this.
Just a precisation. They should not live in camps or registration centers. That's a conscious choice made by scummy people to gain money on their back, which is strictly forbidden but hard to control since the machine isn't geared to get that many people in it and there are scarce control (even if technically you have to present all kind of documentation, it's extremely easy to fake). Here where i work they get normal houses and only 2.5 a day (or 75 a month), with food paid, as well as mental support and language courses. The overall expense is paid by the EU and is capped at 35 a day, which we usually get (and every little extra go again in services for refugees).
Stop thinking news reporting about shitty centers represent all of the workers in the field. Cause they're not. Those centers are often blatantly illegal but impossible to close because there exist no actual regulations on them and everything is made in a state of emergency where laws are superseded, plus you'd have nowhere else to bring refugees anyway so you're stuck. Also, for what it's worth, 97% of the refugees we work with are young males.
That is such an easy moral highground to take. Moving millions of people, most of whom don't have an education that would make them desirable to employers, is not in any way sustainable in the long term. But let's just ignore that and concentrate on calling people names.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
lmao
their ship got seized
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/defend-europe-ship-c-star_uk_5970bfdde4b0110cb3cca59c
their ship got seized
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/defend-europe-ship-c-star_uk_5970bfdde4b0110cb3cca59c
paperboywriter
Member
Let them drown, maybe that gives them some perspective
Generalpsyduck
Banned
Lol
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
So they aimed to stop undocumented migrants but themselves were detained for not having documentation... glorious.
You could say it got.....cap....seized......YEAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Chittagong
Gold Member
Greetings from Catania. Not sure these are the right people, but generally somebody doing something for the mafia x NGO human trade is positive. Uninterrupted it just escalates, leading into more people being trafficked here / drowning on the way.
Boat getting seized was expected, many have vested financial and political interests in keeping the human trafficking flowing.
If there is genuine desire in Europe to get more migrants, then set a proper program, transport and conduct prioritised selection for it. Leaving it to the mob and NGOs is just corrupt.
Boat getting seized was expected, many have vested financial and political interests in keeping the human trafficking flowing.
If there is genuine desire in Europe to get more migrants, then set a proper program, transport and conduct prioritised selection for it. Leaving it to the mob and NGOs is just corrupt.
Amazing! Haha. Brings a smile to my face.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Horror and war?? You must be kidding. Just about every migrant who crosses over from Libiya to Italy comes from a safe country:
https://twitter.com/FranckenTheo/status/882461180257857536
There's a famine going on in parts of Nigeria.
Gen.Grievous
Member
There is no place in Europe for every poor fucking sob from Africa.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Then don't let migrants have welfare benefits? Immigration is good for the economy, even if it's low skilled labour.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
Europe is manifestly having an unaddressed problem with the migration/refugee crisis that is creating a huge vacuum of anxiety, confusion, and fear that the far-/alt-right is stepping into with bullshit solutions, but what gets me are the assholes who use it to try and influence American policy when, frankly, the two aren't anything remotely alike.
Lonewolf_92
Member
Good, I expected they'd get shut down just like that Canadian Alt-Right POS Southern did when she tried to pull this exact same shit.
As far as Albanian economic immigrants go, they weren't going to be the target of these idiots to begin with, they're too white, so bringing them up is a bit of a red herring. Especially when you account that one of the fucks on the boat, Brittany Pettibone, believes that "white genocide" and "Pizzagate" are real things.
As far as Albanian economic immigrants go, they weren't going to be the target of these idiots to begin with, they're too white, so bringing them up is a bit of a red herring. Especially when you account that one of the fucks on the boat, Brittany Pettibone, believes that "white genocide" and "Pizzagate" are real things.
Netherscourge
Banned
So... they are going to abduct and hold them hostage on their ship until they return them to shore?
There's some international amnesty laws being broken there...
There's some international amnesty laws being broken there...
IrishNinja
Member
dear me, however will europe manage?! its a good thing they had no hand in breeding these conditions via colonialism
Earthbound64
Banned
You could, but it would look and sound foolish.
ClosingADoor
Member
There is something ironic about these guys wanting to "defend Europe" as they say with a ship from... Djibouti.
If you are a legal immigrant to most places, you won't get benefits upon arrival but have the take care of yourself. If you arrive as an illegal immigrant through these ways, the state needs to take care of you until you are deported or get a status.
Legal immigration is not the problem for Europe.
Good.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Well, then, don't do that?
Immigration is a part of any free market economy and is good for it, even if it's illegal immigration. It is usually unnecessary government intervention that makes it unprofitable.
Mr. Giggles
Member
WOW at that article's content. This alt right thing is out of hand. What's the American equivalent of this? Let me know so I can get ready for the fuckery. The alt right media is scary organized. It takes a special person to troll a rally then label people as triggered.