So years back Brad Wardell said stuff like this:



https://gamingbolt.com/interview-wi...-directx-12-ashes-of-the-singularity-and-more



Kurtis Simpson: With games such as Ryse: Son of Rome which looked pretty impressive when the Xbox One first launched over a year ago, it’s pretty difficult to imagine how much more the games will improve, given it looks that good already.

Brad Wardell: With the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One they’re not even remotely scratching the surface for what people can do and there’s still…I mean on the PlayStation 4 and their low-level API, they’re all still very…they’re like written for last-gen but updated for this gen. I wouldn’t say they’re completely native yet, I mean they are native but you know these words all get misused, but this gen’s graphics are still very far behind where they’re going to be.

And

That in this gen we will get lord of the rings graphics

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/wccftech.com/games-lord-rings-generation/amp/

In the first interview he talks about how DX12, VULCAN will enable thousands of light sources and not just 8 used in current games, and that games are using deferred rendering and games in this gen will use the same object based rendering as cgi movies do.

This was back in 2015 when games like the Witcher 3, black ops 3 and battlefront came out
Now games do certainly look a bit better but they certainly dont look like cgi,
So is Brad Wardell a liar? Or will we still see CGi visulas on PS4/Xbox one?

Kurtis Simpson: DirectX11 is like a bottleneck that’s overstayed its welcome.

Brad Wardell: Yes and Microsoft’s pushing hard, Windows 10 is free to everyone who has Windows 7 and based on the Steam hardware survey most of the people have video cards that will upgrade to DirectX12.

Click to expand...

It's interesting looking back at this. If you look at the current Steam hardware survey stats, Windows 7 has actually shown growth while usage of Windows 10 is in decline.



For whatever reason, Windows 10 adoption (for PC gamers at least) doesn't seem to be taking off, which I guess would naturally put a spanner in the works for DX12 developments.

JaxBriggs said:

It's interesting looking back at this. If you look at the current Steam hardware survey stats, Windows 7 has actually shown growth while usage of Windows 10 is in decline.

For whatever reason, Windows 10 adoption (for PC gamers at least) doesn't seem to be taking off, which I guess would naturally put a spanner in the works for DX12 developments.

Click to expand...

Im still on win 7, however I dont game much on pc and I just prefer the interface of win7.

What do you think of wardels predictions on graphics?

I don’t know. It’s certainly not like CGI throughout, but running Horizon on a 1080p TV at 9 feet distance, 55” diagonal, with a PS4 Pro, the first several minutes of the game it looks like CGI to me. You don’t have to squint. It looks perfect, essentially. And that is all running in engine, real time, etc. Yes, they picked the best looking time of day and area and angles, etc. etc., but it looks like good CGI to me. And the rest of the game does a pretty decent job not falling far below that level (dialogue face animation aside).

Honestly, we are clearly in diminishing returns land now at this point. To makes games look significantly better, all they can do is make details (like NPCs in Ass Creed) be as detailed as the central character. And that is really a question of money, not hardware power or whatever. For example, Naughty Dog games tend to feature absurdly detailed terrain in addition to world-class visual tech, but the absurdly detailed areas are a function of manpower — which is essentially just budget (not hardware).

The only real non-diminishing-returns aspects (where hardware is still aspirational) with today’s best consoles and PCs are: finally standardizing on 60fps with the top-looking games (Uncharted, Horizon, etc.); and VR. When it comes to 30fps, game engines and hardware are good enough, as far as I am concerned, at this point. I really don’t need or want better. I do want 60fps. I do want something impressive on the destructibility front and how lifelike characters (including side characters) look and act. But when it comes to lighting and polygonal detail and image quality and terrain and animation and shaders and water and clouds and god rays... all that stuff is top-notch commonly in high-budget games now.

I mean, at this point every FarCry that is released, I can BET it will look amazingly good. It’s just normal now, to the point where we are jaded about things we would have found incredible 15 years ago, just stunning vistas in real time. Just add 60fps being that normal (on consoles), and the arms race can subside. It really really REALLY feels different than ever before, as before visuals always felt like something was majorly lacking — always resolution, always geometry detail, always stuff like water, always shadows — all that stuff felt aspirational. But now it’s not been like that, in my eyes, and that has been going on for a year or two, so I do not think it is an illusion. There is lacking excitement about what the next round of hardware can do, because the added level of detail is a matter of manpower, not hardware power.

RedRedSuit said:

I don’t know. It’s certainly not like CGI throughout, but running Horizon on a 1080p TV at 9 feet distance, 55” diagonal, with a PS4 Pro, the first several minutes of the game it looks like CGI to me. You don’t have to squint. It looks perfect, essentially. And that is all running in engine, real time, etc. Yes, they picked the best looking time of day and area and angles, etc. etc., but it looks like good CGI to me. And the rest of the game does a pretty decent job not falling far below that level (dialogue face animation aside).

Honestly, we are clearly in diminishing returns land now at this point. To makes games look significantly better, all they can do is make details (like NPCs in Ass Creed) be as detailed as the central character. And that is really a question of money, not hardware power or whatever. For example, Naughty Dog games tend to feature absurdly detailed terrain in addition to world-class visual tech, but the absurdly detailed areas are a function of manpower — which is essentially just budget (not hardware).

The only real non-diminishing-returns aspects (where hardware is still aspirational) with today’s best consoles and PCs are: finally standardizing on 60fps with the top-looking games (Uncharted, Horizon, etc.); and VR. When it comes to 30fps, game engines and hardware are good enough, as far as I am concerned, at this point. I really don’t need or want better. I do want 60fps. I do want something impressive on the destructibility front and how lifelike characters (including side characters) look and act. But when it comes to lighting and polygonal detail and image quality and terrain and animation and shaders and water and clouds and god rays... all that stuff is top-notch commonly in high-budget games now.

I mean, at this point every FarCry that is released, I can BET it will look amazingly good. It’s just normal now, to the point where we are jaded about things we would have found incredible 15 years ago, just stunning vistas in real time. Just add 60fps being that normal (on consoles), and the arms race can subside. It really really REALLY feels different than ever before, as before visuals always felt like something was majorly lacking — always resolution, always geometry detail, always stuff like water, always shadows — all that stuff felt aspirational. But now it’s not been like that, in my eyes, and that has been going on for a year or two, so I do not think it is an illusion. There is lacking excitement about what the next round of hardware can do, because the added level of detail is a matter of manpower, not hardware power.

Click to expand...

Yeah tbh i think playing aloy as a little girl i was like wtf this is ridiculous I can't think of another game that has done that to me.. but going from MGS1 to MGS2 was pretty badarse in the day

SMOK3Y said:

Yeah tbh i think playing aloy as a little girl i was like wtf this is ridiculous I can't think of another game that has done that to me.. but going from MGS1 to MGS2 was pretty badarse in the day

Click to expand...

What was ridculous? The graphics?

Sosokrates said:

What was ridculous? The graphics?

Click to expand...

Yep imo

we're more or less at the point where gameplay can be indistinguishable from movie CGI, the coveted "toy story graphics" moment, it's more a matter of what sacrifices you have to make per fuctionality going forward

I don't know that branding someone as a liar who is full of shit is a great basis for a discussion, but this gen's graphics tech is going places.

Just look at Ratchet and Clank running on PS4 Pro. If we're not at the "looks like a pixar film" level yet, we're seriously close.

And I can tell you for sure that the 'thousands of light sources' tech mentioned is already a reality, because that's one of the big wins you get with deferred rendering.
Lighting is calculated only for the pixels that the camera can see, whereas traditional forward rendering has to do it for every polygon in the scene. You end up wasting a lot less performance, which in turn allows for a much higher total light count.
Not sure why that idea was tied to DX12/Vulcan though, as engines like UE4 already manage it just fine on DX11.

JaxBriggs said:

It's interesting looking back at this. If you look at the current Steam hardware survey stats, Windows 7 has actually shown growth while usage of Windows 10 is in decline.

Click to expand...

That's just because millions of Chinese users joined Steam recently, and Windows 7 is still somewhat popular there.

There's not a"decline" in the number of people using W10. It's just that new people using W7 raised in numbers even more.

JaxBriggs said:

For whatever reason, Windows 10 adoption (for PC gamers at least) doesn't seem to be taking off, which I guess would naturally put a spanner in the works for DX12 developments.

Click to expand...

It's chinese PUBG players -windows 7 is much more popular there so once they started joining steam it changed statistics.

SMOK3Y said:

Yep imo

Click to expand...

MGS2, that’s a game that still somehow approaches photoreality at times. Another one is Half-Life 2. Artistic choices are made to give both a stunning clean look in certain outdoor situations.

Sosokrates said:

So years back Brad Wardell said stuff like this:



https://gamingbolt.com/interview-wi...-directx-12-ashes-of-the-singularity-and-more



Kurtis Simpson: With games such as Ryse: Son of Rome which looked pretty impressive when the Xbox One first launched over a year ago, it’s pretty difficult to imagine how much more the games will improve, given it looks that good already.

Brad Wardell: With the PlayStation 4 and the Xbox One they’re not even remotely scratching the surface for what people can do and there’s still…I mean on the PlayStation 4 and their low-level API, they’re all still very…they’re like written for last-gen but updated for this gen. I wouldn’t say they’re completely native yet, I mean they are native but you know these words all get misused, but this gen’s graphics are still very far behind where they’re going to be.

And

That in this gen we will get lord of the rings graphics

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/wccftech.com/games-lord-rings-generation/amp/

In the first interview he talks about how DX12, VULCAN will enable thousands of light sources and not just 8 used in current games, and that games are using deferred rendering and games in this gen will use the same object based rendering as cgi movies do.

This was back in 2015 when games like the Witcher 3, black ops 3 and battlefront came out
Now games do certainly look a bit better but they certainly dont look like cgi,
So is Brad Wardell a liar? Or will we still see CGi visulas on PS4/Xbox one?

Click to expand...

When was the last time you watched the original LOTR? The CGI was pretty bad by today's standards, and is roughly matched by some of the games you mentioned.

Sentenza said:

There's not a"decline" in the number of people using W10. It's just that new people using W7 raised in numbers even more.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, but It's still a decline of the percentage of Steam users who use Windows 10, relative to Windows 7.

Pepboy said:

When was the last time you watched the original LOTR? The CGI was pretty bad by today's standards, and is roughly matched by some of the games you mentioned.

Click to expand...

Well After comparing some battlefront 2 to the battle of nabbo in star wars e2, they do look very close.
However current gen games dont have as good polycount, overall lighting, effects, textures when compared to cgi from 10-15yrs ago.
Wardell made it sound like there was going yo be this huge jump, and if you look at battlefront vs battlefront 2 or ryse vs newer games, the jump is not huge the progression in graphics this gen is impressive but its not unlike any other gen.
Maybe game devs have not yet fully ultilised the methods wardell talked about, I don't know, which is why I made the thread.