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Instro
Member
(11-10-2011, 08:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by elrechazao

It's clear from this thread that you're investing all of your massive shirt profits into your own soon to be released russian CD key venture and are choosing to eliminate all competition now.

Follow the money.

It's how he launders all his dirty t-shirt money.
THRILLH0
Banned
(11-10-2011, 08:52 AM)
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So because some guy claims to have evidence that one of these sites is shonky, you're blanket banning the rest because they come from the same part if the world? That's fucked up.

Why not name the site in question?

Banning people for sharing positive experiences they may have had with a legitimate site seems backwards to me.

From what I understand a lot of these sites are run by people who buy boxed copies and scan the cd-key. How is that any different to steam gifting when it comes to regional pricing circumvention?

I can understand banning sites who "obtain" steam keys and the like but surely letting gaffers share their experiences would actually protect people from getting ripped off more effectively than simply pretending they don't exist.

I'm not promoting these sites as I prefer to buy actual box copies anyway (and ive never posted avout one of those sites) but i don't understand the rationale.
Last edited by THRILLH0; 11-10-2011 at 08:55 AM.
MesserWolf
Member
(11-10-2011, 09:35 AM)
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if something cost you less than half the regular price, usually something is not right ....
Leondexter
(11-10-2011, 11:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by 1-D_FTW

Good god. Really? Clearly my metaphor was completely wasted on you.

And I guess all of my points, all but one of which apply equally as well to the real-world scenario for which you used said metaphor, were wasted on you.
cyen
Member
(11-10-2011, 11:19 AM)
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Originally Posted by AShep

So because some guy claims to have evidence that one of these sites is shonky, you're blanket banning the rest because they come from the same part if the world? That's fucked up.

Why not name the site in question?

Banning people for sharing positive experiences they may have had with a legitimate site seems backwards to me.

From what I understand a lot of these sites are run by people who buy boxed copies and scan the cd-key. How is that any different to steam gifting when it comes to regional pricing circumvention?

I can understand banning sites who "obtain" steam keys and the like but surely letting gaffers share their experiences would actually protect people from getting ripped off more effectively than simply pretending they don't exist.

I'm not promoting these sites as I prefer to buy actual box copies anyway (and ive never posted avout one of those sites) but i don't understand the rationale.

I agree with this fellow poster, while i bet that are some shaddy business going on on some websites there are also websites that have a physical copy and then scan the key, as said above is not that different than a friend that bought a game from steam US and then gift to a friend in EU

Just like on ebay and other web selling sites is difficult to see who is a legimate seller that bouht the goods from legit channels from those who bought stolen items.

I also agree too some extense that the talk about these sites should be kept to a minimum, but its not fair too ban some people just because he wants the best price on an item (and lets be honest not all of the game selling keys websites are selling stolen keys).
EviLore
Expansive Ellipses
(11-10-2011, 11:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by AShep

So because some guy claims to have evidence that one of these sites is shonky, you're blanket banning the rest because they come from the same part if the world? That's fucked up.

Why not name the site in question?

Banning people for sharing positive experiences they may have had with a legitimate site seems backwards to me.

From what I understand a lot of these sites are run by people who buy boxed copies and scan the cd-key. How is that any different to steam gifting when it comes to regional pricing circumvention?

I can understand banning sites who "obtain" steam keys and the like but surely letting gaffers share their experiences would actually protect people from getting ripped off more effectively than simply pretending they don't exist.

I'm not promoting these sites as I prefer to buy actual box copies anyway (and ive never posted avout one of those sites) but i don't understand the rationale.

Try reading the whole OP and not just the second half, next time.
THRILLH0
Banned
(11-10-2011, 11:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by EviLore

Try reading the whole OP and not just the second half, next time.


I read the OP. What are you referring to? If you mean that the sites are being recommended without a full explanation of the risks then I still don't see how that's any reason for banning discussion altogether.

There are risks of buying and selling shit on ebay but it's not banned? Craigslist can be shady as fuck. Again, no ban. If you hand over your credit card details to a website without doing the slightest bit of reading on or about said site, I think you surrender your right to blame gaf and/or any particular poster who provides a recommendation based on personal experience.

I completely understand that you wouldn't want someone to get ripped off following some advice they were given on your forum but I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Anyway, bottom line is that it IS your forum so if that's the decision then so be it. Just my 2 cents but I won't say any more about it :)
wiggleb0t
Banned
(11-10-2011, 11:50 AM)
Read whole thread.....If someone could please fill in the gaps..
Excuse the bluntness of the phrasing and no offense intended.

It reads as Seller A BlimBlim (Authorized seller/distributor?) Claims seller B (competitors/unnamed) is selling fraudulently purchased keys. Seller A 'confirms' this with Evil Lore (Admin/site owner?)
Which equates to banning of mentioning other sellers/distributors of cdkeys......

It's a grey area however the logic in the outcome seems flawed.
No mention of the site?
No evidence provided to the public except EvilLore confirming what blimblim claims is true and no hidden bias/agenda from BlimBlim?

It all seems a bit too easy from a distributors pov to help cut down competitors.
cyberheater
Banned
(11-10-2011, 12:04 PM)
I see that folks who bought cd keys for Skyrim at one of the sites mentioned in this thread are going absolute ape shit because the site won't release the keys.
I don't think they even have them.
EviLore
Expansive Ellipses
(11-10-2011, 12:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by AShep

If you mean that the sites are being recommended without a full explanation of the risks then I still don't see how that's any reason for banning discussion altogether.

There are risks of buying and selling shit on ebay but it's not banned? Craigslist can be shady as fuck. Again, no ban. If you hand over your credit card details to a website without doing the slightest bit of reading on or about said site, I think you surrender your right to blame gaf and/or any particular poster who provides a recommendation based on personal experience.

I completely understand that you wouldn't want someone to get ripped off following some advice they were given on your forum but I think you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

So I should just let people recommend these sites because the internet is a dangerous place and the recipients of the advice are foolish for ever having trusted a fellow member? For fuck's sake.


wiggleb0t: Blim is not a distributor going after his competition, he's a game dev who investigated the sites and found them dealing in stolen keys for his game. As for "no evidence being provided to the public," this is not a democratic hearing, this is a policy announcement.
elektrixx
Banned
(11-10-2011, 12:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by MesserWolf

if something cost you less than half the regular price, usually something is not right ....

Yes, and in this case it's with the local distributors who are jacking up the price simply because they can.
mrklaw
MrArseFace
(11-10-2011, 12:17 PM)
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how about reselling of PSN cards from other territories?
MiloFoxburr
Member
(11-10-2011, 12:21 PM)
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Originally Posted by cyberheater

I see that folks who bought cd keys for Skyrim at one of the sites mentioned in this thread are going absolute ape shit because the site won't release the keys.
I don't think they even have them.

They don't tend to get them until the day the game is released in Russia or where ever. I ordered MW3 from one of them this week, first time ever ordering, they sent me a picture of the CD-Key and the Disc. I doubt I'd use them again to be honest since I would normally be happy waiting for Steam Sales to buy stuff but MW3 won't be 18 for a long time. I always thought these sites where shady, if it hadn't been for the GAF thread I wouldn't of even thought of using them. But I think the ones who send you a picture of the Disc + Key are pretty safe. Though you still have the issue of VPN's and changing the Language which the majority of people won't be comfortable with. Getting refunds seems to be a bit of a hassle too.

With publishers likely making more of an effort to make using these keys more difficult (Blocking DLC, region restrictions and possibly even removing them for your account) I don't really see the harm in stopping discussion for them here.
cyberheater
Banned
(11-10-2011, 01:02 PM)
[IMG]http://i41.************/35bw38m.png[/IMG]

LOL. This is what happens when you use cheap cd keys.
Rufus
Member
(11-10-2011, 01:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by EviLore

wiggleb0t: Blim is not a distributor going after his competition, he's a game dev who investigated the sites and found them dealing in stolen keys for his game. As for "no evidence being provided to the public," this is not a democratic hearing, this is a policy announcement.

So why not just ban the site(s?) in question? Or at least let people know, since you're doing this in part to protect the community.
Last edited by Rufus; 11-10-2011 at 01:09 PM.
coopolon
Member
(11-10-2011, 01:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by cyberheater

[IMG]http://i41.************/35bw38m.png[/IMG]

LOL. This is what happens when you use cheap cd keys.

Ouch, is that popping up when they are trying to activate it or just playing it? I guess since it is not released yet it's only to activate it, hope people will still be able to play it.
mocolostrocolos
Member
(11-10-2011, 01:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by EviLore

wiggleb0t: Blim is not a distributor going after his competition, he's a game dev who investigated the sites and found them dealing in stolen keys for his game. As for "no evidence being provided to the public," this is not a democratic hearing, this is a policy announcement.

/thread

I've used a russian key for BF3 and that's enough to me. Changing registry, downloading external files to play it in Spanish and shit.

I felt like a pirate that paid 20 bucks.
Leonsito
Member
(11-10-2011, 01:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by cyberheater

[IMG]http://i41.************/35bw38m.png[/IMG]

LOL. This is what happens when you use cheap cd keys.

Region locking in PC gaming, amazing.
Proteus
BOSS
(11-10-2011, 02:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by cyberheater

[IMG]http://i41.************/35bw38m.png[/IMG]

LOL. This is what happens when you use cheap cd keys.

I didn't buy from a CD-Key site but did purchase from a French retailer that was selling digital distribution copies globally. Hopefully I have no issues. Preload went fine.
Lesiroth
Member
(11-10-2011, 02:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by cyberheater

[IMG]http://i41.************/35bw38m.png[/IMG]

LOL. This is what happens when you use cheap cd keys.

Is that just for activating or when you're trying to run the game?
Proteus
BOSS
(11-10-2011, 02:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lesiroth

Is that just for activating or when you're trying to run the game?

Just reading it tells me that it's when you try and play the game.
Rapstah
Member
(11-10-2011, 02:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by DoctorWho

I didn't buy from a CD-Key site but did purchase from a French retailer that was selling digital distribution copies globally. Hopefully I have no issues. Preload went fine.

I'm thinking if you buy from any of the countries whose languages are available in the European/American Steam version you're fine. French, Italian, German, Japanese and possibly some more are available and from what I remember Russian is not.
Rufus
Member
(11-10-2011, 02:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spanish Wrath

I felt like a pirate that paid 20 bucks.

Remember that next time you import a game or buy something on sale.
luxarific
Nork unification denier
(11-10-2011, 02:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by DoctorWho

Just reading it tells me that it's when you try and play the game.

Yeah, you have to activate and play via VPN. I don't mind activating via VPN, but playing the entire game that way is a no-go for me, so I got my purchase refunded.
Blimblim
The Inside Track
(11-10-2011, 02:10 PM)
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To clarify my statement from the other thread, I don't mean to say that all these sites are actually doing illegal business, but many of them don't care about where the keys come from as long as they are cheap.
I'll just leave this example:
http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/view...lit=g2play#p80
It's in French, but it's a developer from Cyanide confirming that G2Play was selling stolen keys (stolen from game's official store, which was the ONLY place in the world where you could get the game, since it was released first digitally only and exclusively on the official store). They more than likely bought them from someone else who actually did the credit card fraud, but it's still a very shady way to do business.
Back before steam became so popular, it was pretty easy to spot the retailers doing this because they would sell the key and basically tell you to download the game itself from thepiratebay. Nowadays, it's much more difficult.
Proteus
BOSS
(11-10-2011, 02:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rufus

Remember that next time you import a game or buy something on sale.

I think he's talking about all the extra hoops he had to jump through just to get the thing to work. It's similar to looking for a crack file to launch your downloaded game.

When I bought off a cdkey site I'd make sure that I was not buying an RU copy and that the site would send me a scan of the key from the actual box. Otherwise I wasn't interested. Saying that, I completely understand Evilore's position on this. There's too much shady business going on behind the scenes. It's hard to determine what's legit and what's not.
cyberheater
Banned
(11-10-2011, 02:18 PM)

Originally Posted by Lesiroth

Is that just for activating or when you're trying to run the game?

I've no idea. I bought off Steam.
Rufus
Member
(11-10-2011, 02:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by DoctorWho

I think he's talking about all the extra hoops he had to jump through just to get the thing to work. It's similar to looking for a crack file to launch your downloaded game.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by DoctorWho

Saying that, I completely understand Evilore's position on this. There's too much shady business going on behind the scenes. It's hard to determine what's legit and what's not.

I do too, but since Blimblim appears to know sites who are not legit it would be nice to at least name those. edit: There we go, thanks.
Last edited by Rufus; 11-10-2011 at 02:24 PM.
NeoandGeo
Banned
(11-10-2011, 02:25 PM)
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I feel that buying a Russian key and trying to play it legitimately in America/EU is pretty shady. But I see nothing wrong with buying a non-region locked multilingual key for 20-40% off retail price for your country. IMO, it's getting a fair deal in a horribly overpriced game world.

I also agree with getting behind a full open investigation of these sites to determine which are ok and which should be avoided. This forum is about help, and this is preventing it altogether.
Zafir
Member
(11-10-2011, 02:26 PM)
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Not a bad thing I guess. I have to admit, if you're going to buy from other countries(Such as Russia, or India) you're probably better of trying to buy from an official online retailer of that country. The bigger key resellers put a rather large mark up on them, so much so you're probably better off just paying for a UK or US copy which doesn't have region locking and require language altering. I bet they make quite a lot of money from the mark up actually, especially if the said keys are stolen.
Tacitus_
Member
(11-10-2011, 02:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by cyberheater

[IMG]http://i41.************/35bw38m.png[/IMG]

LOL. This is what happens when you use cheap cd keys.

picardwtfisthisshit.jpg

What next? They'll start banning people who use a VPN to activate a legit game in some other region since it gets released a week earlier there for some reason?
Blimblim
The Inside Track
(11-10-2011, 02:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tacitus_

picardwtfisthisshit.jpg

What next? They'll start banning people who use a VPN to activate a legit game in some other region since it gets released a week earlier there for some reason?

It's a very complicated issue. On one side we have the internet, obviously a space with no frontier, and on the other we have the actual real world, where various countries have widely different economies and purchasing power. So a 60 euros games sold as such in Russia would basically be twice as expensive for your average Russian.
Up until the Internet became a practical way to buy games, it wasn't an issue. Nowadays though, it is. Games were always much cheaper outside of US/Canada/Western Europe/Japan, but it never was a real problem due to postage costs and import taxes.
So until we all around the world have the same money (and that's not going to happen any time soon, see the Euro right now), publishers are going to push for this type of stuff.
R_thanatos
Member
(11-10-2011, 02:52 PM)
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Incredible thread .

I see the need to tell that some of these websites are shaddy .AND imo the risk for these websites is really too great.

That's why i have a (very old steam account with my games all bought) , i buy on nintendo channels and PSN , XBLA.

I am a legit !!

Using proxy/vpns to play is just too much trouble, especially when you can wait for the digital prices to go down ( especially on steam ).

i do have 8 PSN acocunts however.( and i buy my games with PSN cards )..

in short ..good ridance to the shaddy websites.
If they are really legit , then they will gain reputation over time, and everything will be solved.
NeoandGeo
Banned
(11-10-2011, 02:54 PM)
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Too bad the end user will more easily get stiffed since they're banning the talk of all in one blanket decision. Very bad policy, especially when calling attention to them like this.
Sanjay
Member
(11-10-2011, 03:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by cyberheater

[IMG]http://i41.************/35bw38m.png[/IMG]

LOL. This is what happens when you use cheap cd keys.

No this is what happens when you buy games from outside your region, like Russia if your from Europe. Steam by law can't stop you buying from any EU member states and that's why you see cheap keys around and Steam can't do anything.

The real problem seems to be their have been reported cases where these websites that sell keys have obtained illegal keys. What this does is it hurts the game developers financially and why the blanket ban on these websites occurred.

Originally Posted by Blimblim

It's a very complicated issue. On one side we have the internet, obviously a space with no frontier, and on the other we have the actual real world, where various countries have widely different economies and purchasing power. So a 60 euros games sold as such in Russia would basically be twice as expensive for your average Russian.
Up until the Internet became a practical way to buy games, it wasn't an issue. Nowadays though, it is. Games were always much cheaper outside of US/Canada/Western Europe/Japan, but it never was a real problem due to postage costs and import taxes.
So until we all around the world have the same money (and that's not going to happen any time soon, see the Euro right now), publishers are going to push for this type of stuff.

I keep hearing Russia mentioned a lot, but what about the non Russian versions of games that are sold on these websites which are priced round 25% to 30% off then the Russian version where its like more then 50% off. Are these games sourced from the cheaper European states?
Blimblim
The Inside Track
(11-10-2011, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sanjay

I keep hearing Russia mentioned a lot, but what about the non Russian versions of games that are sold on these websites which are priced round 25% to 30% off then the Russian version where its like more then 50% off. Are these games sourced from the cheaper European states?

They usually buy the games from wholesalers and then simply scan the game's keys. One of the "nice" things about digital distribution is that the price 100% legit sites pay for the game is quite a bit higher than the price a wholesaler will pay for an actual physical product. Go figure.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
(11-10-2011, 03:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by NeoandGeo

Too bad the end user will more easily get stiffed since they're banning the talk of all in one blanket decision. Very bad policy, especially when calling attention to them like this.

If a person goes on to one of these CD key sites and gets ripped off, it is their own fault now and not the fault of this forum or a poster on this forum.

Were you in the Steam thread before that separate CD-key thread got made? It was getting absurd. People were recommending these sites like they were Amazon.com with absolutely no disclaimers.
Omikaru
Member
(11-10-2011, 03:28 PM)
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I've always found these CD key resellers to be dodgy. Never bought from one, never will.

I thought that it was common sense that they were obviously doing something they shouldn't to offer them so cheap. Whilst I don't agree with region locking, it's pretty obvious that once region locks were implemented, the keys would have to have been stolen.
Callo Merlose
Banned
(11-10-2011, 03:31 PM)
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Evilore's sternness combined with his Musashi avatar is very arousing.
NeoandGeo
Banned
(11-10-2011, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by morningbus

If a person goes on to one of these CD key sites and gets ripped off, it is their own fault now and not the fault of this forum or a poster on this forum.

Were you in the Steam thread before that separate CD-key thread got made? It was getting absurd. People were recommending these sites like they were Amazon.com with absolutely no disclaimers.

Which is why we need to know the legit ones from the shady ones.
mocolostrocolos
Member
(11-10-2011, 03:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rufus

Remember that next time you import a game or buy something on sale.

Nope. When I import I don't have to download extra files and do anything on registry. It's not the same (to me).
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
(11-10-2011, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by NeoandGeo

Which is why we need to know the legit ones from the shady ones.

In the eyes of the people that run this forum, they are all shady now. You buy at your own risk.

This is like asking for a thread about piracy so people know the non-malicious sites to go to.
Nora Kisaragi
Banned
(11-10-2011, 03:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Leonsito

Region locking in PC gaming, amazing.

Region locking...in PC gaming?

WHAAAAT. Let's start an angry mob.
Sanjay
Member
(11-10-2011, 03:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Blimblim

They usually buy the games from wholesalers and then simply scan the game's keys. One of the "nice" things about digital distribution is that the price 100% legit sites pay for the game is quite a bit higher than the price a wholesaler will pay for an actual physical product. Go figure.

The questions was not really from whom but where are these wholesalers keys from, region wise. Hopefully Panorama will one day discover the truth.

Originally Posted by morningbus

Were you in the Steam thread before that separate CD-key thread got made? It was getting absurd. People were recommending these sites like they were Amazon.com with absolutely no disclaimers.

So your saying that CD-key thread failed because it was ass and did not have a 14 post OP?

Originally Posted by Omikaru

Whilst I don't agree with region locking.

Where as Blizzard wants you to bypass their region locking system, buy the game twice!


Originally Posted by morningbus

This is like asking for a thread about piracy so people know the non-malicious sites to go to.

Pretty much, don't want to buy from buyers of pirate keys, only the legit buyers of keys.
Last edited by Sanjay; 11-10-2011 at 03:49 PM.
I H8 Memes
Member
(11-10-2011, 03:50 PM)
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The only solution to this is for publishers to sell games at the same price globally.

Since almost all of the sites that sell game keys are obtaining them legally, just at the lower regional prices, people who buy from these sites are essentially doing the same thing as people in the Steam gifting threads. If one is banned from discussion we have to ban all of the regional price bypassing threads. Unless Valve has some sort of special deal with publishers that allows them to bypass the regional restrictions.

I know on the surface it is used for gifting games to people, but really the gifting system is mostly used to buy cheaper games. Maybe Valve should start forcing people to choose which country the game is being gifted to then make the customer pay whatever the cost is for the game in that country before allowing the purchase.
confused
Banned
(11-10-2011, 03:52 PM)
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I think I found a solution for sending money to Russia for Steam purchases :

http://moneybookers.com/app/

Allows you to send money from anywhere to Russia. Haven't tried the service yet for Russia, but have had a few international transactions with no complications.
Sanjay
Member
(11-10-2011, 03:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by I H8 Memes

Since almost all of the sites that sell game keys are obtaining them legally.

I think you missed out where these sellers obtained illegal keys via fraud. No one knows if it was them or 3rd party but none the less still not a good avenue of obtaining CD keys.


Originally Posted by confused

I think I found a solution for sending money to Russia for Steam purchases :

http://moneybookers.com/app/

Allows you to send money from anywhere to Russia. Haven't tried the service yet for Russia, but have had a few international transactions with no complications.

I think your confused on the purpose of this thread.
NeoandGeo
Banned
(11-10-2011, 04:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by morningbus

In the eyes of the people that run this forum, they are all shady now. You buy at your own risk.

This is like asking for a thread about piracy so people know the non-malicious sites to go to.

It's nothing like that. We are talking about buying legitimately purchased keys, and which sites to avoid selling stolen keys, not which piracy sites have no viruses.
Burekma
Member
(11-10-2011, 04:04 PM)
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I pretty much predicted this happening yesterday, I just didn't know it was going to be this soon. To quote myself:

if things continue, [Russians] soon won't be able to play their games outside of their own country

Sorry guys, but you can't "win" against multi-billion dollar corporations. They will find a way to enforce their rules eventually, and it's going to be at the expense of someone.

The most we can do is take a stand, not fight them. Don't try and circumvent their region restrictions, as it's only going to make matters worse. Instead look for deals from legitimate, approved and trustworthy digital or retail sellers. And if you can't find one, just wait until the price in your region becomes acceptable.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
(11-10-2011, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by NeoandGeo

It's nothing like that. We are talking about buying legitimately purchased keys, and which sites to avoid selling stolen keys, not which piracy sites have no viruses.

We're talking about risk. You assume the risk of using one of those sites, regardless of whether or not you have a page on a forum to guide you.

Just because something is legal (buying legitimate keys) doesn't mean this site has to facilitate it. Porn is legal, but there isn't a community thread for the legit porn sites.

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