delete12345
Member
Blame Nvidia for their Tegra X1. That's their territory, not Nintendo.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
What's causing Switch games to be 900p on docked mode instead of 1080p?
- Thread starter ShadowFox08
- Start date
Blame Nvidia for their Tegra X1. That's their territory, not Nintendo.
Revolutionary
Member
30% is not miniscule.
ShadowFox08
Member
44% more pixels if my math and is right.
Anyway, for those who are like,"Durr it's weaker than xbone and ps4," you totally missed the point. Of course the switch is weaker. Nobody is arguing otherwise, and differing resolutions between different consoles do happen where switch displays higher than xbone(leg city stories) but take hits in framerate and fidelity. I'm talking about resolution bottlenecks when handheld is specifically set to 720p, and docked games stopping at 900p, which makes me think bandwidth is the culprit since it doesn't scale proportionally to the cpu and you in power for ports. And yes devs do have the option of increasing fidelity and framerate over resolution. But this doesn't explain games like botw that could have been 1080p as the switch has more than enough you brunt for it, but it was held back by a bottlenecks, such as possibly bandwidth. That's my hunch at least.
Koala Driving a Ferrari
Member
900p seems to be the sweet spot between performance and visual presentation for Nintendo's implementation of the Tegra in the Switch. I'm honestly surprised that it performs as well as it does. Skyrim, for example, looks quite good.
family_guy
Member
Really? Nintendo picked an almost 2 yr old off the shelf chip that they could get for cheap, added some more RAM, and then throttled it so it wouldn't overheat in the hardware shell they designed themselves and it's Nvidia's fault?
Horsemama1956
Member
Why troll?
CadetMahoney
Member
Is 900p = 1600 x 900 resolution?
I sometimes use that for windowed mode Warriors All-Stars on my PC because I finds it easier to look at everything on the screen (hard to describe what I mean). And I'm on a 980Ti. I obviously wouldn't upscale it to fullscreen however.
I sometimes use that for windowed mode Warriors All-Stars on my PC because I finds it easier to look at everything on the screen (hard to describe what I mean). And I'm on a 980Ti. I obviously wouldn't upscale it to fullscreen however.
InterMusketeer
Member
I do think it's a shame most games on Switch can't hit a solid 60fps at native resolution (720p in portable mode, 1080p in docked mode) without resorting to dynamic resolutions and all that. The games look awfully blurry when the lower resolution kicks in, and it's incredibly distracting to me.
Would've been nice If they'd been able to release a slightly more powerful unit so this stuff wasn't necessary... Do you think they could release an update to the Switch, similair to the New 3DS, which would be able to run this year's games at a solid resolution?
Would've been nice If they'd been able to release a slightly more powerful unit so this stuff wasn't necessary... Do you think they could release an update to the Switch, similair to the New 3DS, which would be able to run this year's games at a solid resolution?
coughlanio
Member
Probably not without the games being patched. Games with dynamic resolution scaling would benefit from being able to run at their target resolution more often though.
I think we'll see a Switch XL/Pro at some point with a larger 900p or 1080p display in the same form factor with a more powerful iteration of Tegra which can run first generation Switch games in "docked" mode while portable.
DKPOWPOW
Member
I've been pleasantly surprised by the graphics of Switch. I don't have a 4k TV either so that provably helps too.
Honestly though, the system just came out. Usually takes a little bit before developers really know the nitty gritty of the system and how to get the most from it. I expect whenever Retro shows their game it'll blow most the games we have so far outta the water.
Played some DK Tropical Freeze today and I was amazed at how good it still looks.
Honestly though, the system just came out. Usually takes a little bit before developers really know the nitty gritty of the system and how to get the most from it. I expect whenever Retro shows their game it'll blow most the games we have so far outta the water.
Played some DK Tropical Freeze today and I was amazed at how good it still looks.
Without a doubt. Metroid Prime 3 shamed every other wii game in terms of visuals, and rivaled many on the other consoles. At silky smooth 60fps, no less, when a lot of ps360 games could barely maintain 30.
https://youtu.be/2u-7mZO69E8?t=30m42s
ShadowFox08
Member
I never said I expect 60fps and 1080p for all switch games. And again, graphical fidelity is the third factor that must be balanced out.
That being said, I wonder how a pascal X2 switch would perform... 1.5x the GPU, 2X the RAM and Bandwidth(8GB and 58.4GB/s), and 1.5-2.0x the CPU(?). Zelda and Odyssey should easily hit 1080p with some improvements to framerate and fidelity. I can imagine Doom running at 60fps with slightly better fidelity(textures) at 720p locked maybe.
It uses a Tegra X1 not the older Tegra 1,2,3 series. If it used an X2 it would be close to Xbox One power.
Because Im not?
IShowUBasics
Member
You should read the OP again because i think you didnt get it right. If the switch runs games in 720p undocked and is about 2x as powerful docked. Why cant it run them in 1080p then? I dont get what you are trying to explain with the XBOXOneX and 4k. Switch cant run Skyrim in 1080p because the XBOX One X cant run much more demanding games in native 4k? Doesnt really make sense. The XBOXX is like 4x as powerful as the XBOXOne and runs those games in 4x the resolution.
llien
Member
Reasons are apparent, I thought, hardware isn't that powerful and devs preferred to add more eye candy to higher resolution with simpler graphics.
Come on, how does that answer "why is resolution lower than 1080p while docked".
Come on, how does that answer "why is resolution lower than 1080p while docked".
Wonkytonky
Member
Is it not? Cheers.
Rhetorical Question
Member
I still hope for the pascal improved Switch that'll give devs a little be more opportunities performancewise. But I'm quite satisfied with Switch's performance right now, since I haven't expected it to be a monster though.
DKPOWPOW
Member
Yeah, Prime 3 still looks good to this day. Hell the whole trilogy does. I hope someday soon we get a HD remaster of the games. Be hard to do Prime 3 without the IR aiming, really made the game a cut above most FPS when it came to combat.
delete12345
Member
It's the fault of the other person I quoted before you that wishes the GPU SoC is more powerful than it is. If they said they wished the hardware has this or that done, then they should just "go and blame" Nvidia for that, because a Tegra X1 is powerful as is right now. And it will stay this powerful until a new hardware revision appears.
visiblemode
Member
I buy the argument that its a trade off for the console being portable, and honestly, thats how I personally feel. I mostly use it handheld...but were not going down the you cant even see the difference! road again, are we? Of course you can. There is a huge difference.
No, it wouldnt. In fact about half, at best. And dont forget it would be downclocked as well, as these tests are under ideal circumstances, in a static, well cooled installation and not a portable. The other consoles measure FP32 operations, which is what is commonly used for games.
Switch is about 350GFLOPS real world FP32.
https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2016/08/22/parker-for-self-driving-cars/
Tegra 2 is 1.5tFLOPS FP16 operations, 0.75TFLOPS FP32, again, full clock, full power, properly cooled, running ideal and tuned benchmarking software.
Xbox One is 1.4TFLOPs FP32 operations, that would be 2.8TFLOPS FP16
Like I said, its basically Xbox 360 Pro. I dont understand why, after Nintendo has spent over a decade shipping underpowered consoles a generation behind in ability, people think a portable, where design requirements mandate low power, low heat would change that
Nintendo Switch 3 could hit Xbox One levels of performance.
Your right on the Xbox 360 pro anology, I don't get why people say the switch is weak sauce when compared to the PS4. It's not ment to be PS4!.
For those saying it's weak I would look at the phone you have. Make the screen an inch bigger, turn your phone around 90 degrees and then tell me if it can run Doom?. I don't know of a phone on the market that can. If you want 1080p on a portable device buy a laptop. And you will definitely have to run off AC to actually play the game unless you only play games for 30mins at a time.
For those saying it's weak I would look at the phone you have. Make the screen an inch bigger, turn your phone around 90 degrees and then tell me if it can run Doom?. I don't know of a phone on the market that can. If you want 1080p on a portable device buy a laptop. And you will definitely have to run off AC to actually play the game unless you only play games for 30mins at a time.
Dee Dah Dave
Member
It's a shame because Switch games look like a builders backside on my 60" 4K TV. It's one of the main reasons putting me off from buying one.
Pocky4Th3Win
Member
It's a devs choice to compensate for weak hardware while keeping graphical effects high. The chip in the Switch is already 2 years old and even then slower compared to its original counterpart.
As a console it is weak compared to PS4, but as a handheld console it's a big jump. The reason the clocks are slower besides optimising battery is that the nivida shield would throttle it's clocks down to about what the switch runs at anyway, so why waste the battery and have big frame rate jumps?
I dunno plenty of 900p games on Xbox1 and PS4 too.
rokkerkory
Member
Yeah my bad i totally read the OP wrong lol
th4tguy
Member
Like you said, there are many other areas to consider for performance of a game. Main thing to keep in mind though. GPU usage doesn't scale linearly based off resolution. 2x resolution bump doesn't require 2x more from the gpu.
Yup. Everyone should thank Nvidia. We will end up with a 480p Switch handheld if they used an AMD chip because of power consumption.
Well, theres the rub though. Nintendo DOES consider it a console, not a portable, thought their plans are for it to merge their two customer sets. And theyre sellling it to that market at those price points. $500 (what it costs after you buy a game, memory card, case etcafter tax) puts it right up there with Xbox One X and the Pro in terms of cash outlay. And more importantly it also puts it in competition with the new phones and tablets the kids really want at that price. They do far better to cut the price to 199, and market it is the successors of the DS, But since portables are dying in the face of mobile, thats not really a path to the future
NicknameMy
Neo Member
Please inform yourself first about what different architectures mean for the efficiency of TFlops and what a differnce in API can do. Tegra X2 doesn't need the same amount of TFlops to beat out the XBox One, as the API and newer architecture are way superior in using the Teraflops. Also NVidia is in general superior in that term.
Are people still arguing about power and cursing the console for that? Meanwhile 2 months in a row Nintendo accounts for 2/3 of the NA hardware sales and all of their big games are in a voting for GotY.
Im well aware of efficiency factors. Thats why I used terms like real world, and optimal. The difference isnt that great to overcome the raw issues.
Power is certainly a factor when it comes to the ability of third parties to port their games. The question was asked, this is the answer as to why theyre all lower res.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I think switch graphics compare very well to X1/PS4.
While playing mario Odyssey, zelda BOTW, Mario kart 8 Im not thinking Im playing on a vastly less powerful console compared to the ps4/x1.
It's pretty incredible really for such a small system.
While playing mario Odyssey, zelda BOTW, Mario kart 8 Im not thinking Im playing on a vastly less powerful console compared to the ps4/x1.
It's pretty incredible really for such a small system.
family_guy
Member
It's still largely going to be the same problem we've seen in 2 previous generations. You'll have a Nintendo system that works fine for Nintendo's IP which don't push the graphical/performance bar and then you need a second console to play the rest if you care about third party games. We'll probably have a PS5 in 2019/20, and the Switch is less than half as powerful as an Xbox One. Is this system supposed to last 5-6 years? If it is it can't keep up, and I don't expect it to get much third party support for the larger games. If the Switch 2 has Xbox One level performance, then the issue will still persist. Nintendo may have backed themselves into a corner with the Switch. They may never be able to release a standalone home console again and the performance will always suffer for it.
NicknameMy
Neo Member
Developers go where they can find money, not power. If the Switch is selling well and has an audiance that buys their games, developers will release their games for the System. Look at Doom. Look at Wolvenstein II. Look at Skyrim Special Edition, look at L.A. Noire Remastered Edition.
The Switch currently even has people which double dip for games simply to play them portable. This alone makes it worth it at all cost to develop for the Switch.
In fact, if the Switch turns out to be the strongest console in the market, what would stop developers to just develop games on Switch-level and then just upscale it for the other versions? They would save development cost and have more income.
family_guy
Member
I remember all that great Wii software third parties were churning out.
There in fact a lot of great 3rd party games being churned out, its just that there was more shovel ware along with it.
NicknameMy
Neo Member
The Wii had a different problem, the controllers were so unique that none of the big third party games could use their usual type of controls, this meant reinventing the controls of the game and made third party games on Wii less compelling than on other platforms. The Switch instead has the same features as all other controllers (except the analog shoulder buttons) plus other options as a bonus
Pasedo
Member
Hybrid gaming is the future and the switch has basically reset the market away from super powerful graphics. With a low base start watch how excited people will get as they make incremental improvements in hybrid graphics which were conventional graphics many years prior. People are already wishing for it and as mobile gpu tech improves you will surely get it. Like others have said graphics today have reached diminishing returns and you can't excite and surprise people as much as you used to. Starting from a low base we've brought expectations back to 360/PS3 era. Personally I'm going to enjoy watching and playing games on hybrid as it goes through its graphical evolution. This reset is good for the industry as more companies join the hybrid revolution and with the sales success of switch thus far I bet hybrid will be the next big category in gaming and once again Nintendo continues to be the industry heroes. Which is why all the brands respect them because through their innovation they've kept the market thriving which has put more dollars in their pockets.
Astral Dog
Member
GPU and Bandwith.
I believe the undocked Switch has a bandwith deficiency even compared to Wii U and thats why there are many sub native Switch games
I believe the undocked Switch has a bandwith deficiency even compared to Wii U and thats why there are many sub native Switch games
grfunkulus
Banned
Nice use of big words like "outlay" to distract from a bogus premise like somehow $300 becomes $400 or $500 when none of the console manufacturers include games with their 'premium' consoles, and the storage solutions are all equally shitty (but also equally cheap to alleviate) out of the gate. I didn't realize everyone buying a ps4 pro or X got them tax free either.
The only argument here is the Nintendo 'tax' on some games and that's a result of the market saying they're willing to pay it.
I don't know how you can begin to compare a switch to most of the smart phones kids/teens are running around with these days either. Another ridiculous comparison because all of the flagships are minimum $700 and as much as $1k.
Rereading the last two sentences you wrote, I can't tell if you're oblivious to fact you just contradicted yourself or trying to prove some point about Nintendo's fate being sealed.
Astral Dog
Member
When they decided to make an hybrid, some sacrifices had to be made. You can't expect higher resolutions than an Xbone when its 3x-4 the capability.nice to see a few games making the jump but thats not gonna be the standard
I think docked Switch stands its own for what it is, but is quickly going to get behind the companies need to market 4k TVs. Mario ODYSSEY looks quite nice on my 720p tv than the 1080.
ShadowFox08
Member
higher resolutions?
Legocity Stories say hi. 1080p resolution was possible on consoles since last generation. It's not just resolution but framerate and fidelity that are factored and balanced, and used under discretion by devs.
Astral Dog
Member
And how does LegoCity look compared to your average PS4 or Xbox One game :3
i didn't say it was impossible.just a matter of obtimization and balance.
FEW for example has a 30 fps/1080p or 60/720p mode, but not every game is going to be that optimuzed (plus FEWarriors looks ugly)