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Envelope
sealed with a kiss
(04-20-2017, 06:15 PM)
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Gutting of ivern when
Leezard
It's Just the
Sweet Scent of Butane
(04-20-2017, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by zkylon

i feel like they gotta be careful with doing too many actives cos that's really hard to track and if a support has like 3 or 4 of those they can singlehandedly do like a crazy burst of utility that's probably gonna be abusable

like imagine if a support just does like ardent censer+locket+zekes on a kogmaw or something, that's probably not fun lol

maybe if they do something like the hextech items mid, shared cooldowns on some of those items so you got to choose more of a build path you take. supports feel like they buy pretty much the same shit every game so having some items lock some others out wouldn't be a bad idea

i was thinking, is there are site that tracks the % of item buys? like in how many games there's redemption+locket, etc.?

Yeah, there's that too. Shared cooldowns could be an idea, maybe you could use 3 out of 4 items or 2 out of 3, and you bump up the power of the items.

I don't think there's a site with a good aggregate, but you could get a decent idea if you construct your own weighted average from the support builds at lolalytics. You'd have to compare it to the number of AD assassins that buy ghostblade + edge of night and mid mages that build Morello + Luden's to get an idea if it actually deviates that much from the normal items of other classes.
iModem
Banned
(04-20-2017, 06:52 PM)
Rakan is very fun, although I must admit feels a LITTLE underwhelming when not with Xayah. You can do SO much with his mobility if you have your extended E range as an escape card. Kind of have to resort to peel-only without that get-out-of-jail-free card. Well designed champ though.

Sej+Zac+reworks are whatever.
dimb
Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
(04-20-2017, 06:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by drawkcaB

So cool of you to ignore the first part of that sentence.

Am I laning with you in a bot game on my smurf?
kayos90
Tragic victim of fan death
(04-20-2017, 06:53 PM)
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I'm literally playing Kayle to plat. At a certain point Kayle will just become unviable I guess... She has to... right?
Black-Wind
(04-20-2017, 07:00 PM)
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I don't really get the tree's rework.

They were all like "Hey! We wanna make him more of an engage tank! Soooo ... we're gonna do the most common sense thing with his sapplings (play up the VISION aspect and reward it over just using it as a push lane rotation. I agree with this, its a rare skill to be able to make your own wards and it feels more rewarding on most other champs) annnnnd ... make his ult a big slow moving short traveling root. Scary flanks, huh!?!?! ;D".

Still not sure about Sej, her fans can't seem to wrap their heads around "My whole fantasy ... DOESN'T revolve around getting a sweet 4-5 man Ult? :(" and they seem to think the sky is falling. I think this makes her a better laner soooo I wanna pick her up now. The one Zac streamer I watch One Tricks him top and Mid and had some interesting thoughts on him. Seems to think this helps lane Zac but hurts TF Zac cause there's no way to keep someone in your ult as you're charging it to make sure they can't flash or mobility creep their way out. In lane you can keep track of someone's flash or CD so there's that.
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-20-2017, 07:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by drawkcaB

So cool of you to ignore the first part of that sentence.

i feel like there's always better ways to phrase things

i generally try to avoid words like lazy cos it's pretty obvious rito takes a lot of time and effort to make shit, even if they may be misguided or wrong sometimes

i don't do it always tho, cos it's easy to get pissed off when they fuck up ur favorite champions

Originally Posted by MrCookiepants

I did bork into frozen mallet against Mundo one time. The damage was on the low side but it was really funny being able to kite/chase him forever as he helplessly waddled around.

i stopped buying frozen mallet a while ago cos yeah, that was kinda dumb lol

but yea i do throw like steraks or death's dance or some other shit in that inventory and it sorta works

i feel like she's feels like the champion with the best itemization i've tried, you can build just about anything and it works

Originally Posted by Leezard

Yeah, there's that too. Shared cooldowns could be an idea, maybe you could use 3 out of 4 items or 2 out of 3, and you bump up the power of the items.

I don't think there's a site with a good aggregate, but you could get a decent idea if you construct your own weighted average from the support builds at lolalytics. You'd have to compare it to the number of AD assassins that buy ghostblade + edge of night and mid mages that build Morello + Luden's to get an idea if it actually deviates that much from the normal items of other classes.

it's the idea that comes to mind right now at least
Newt
Member
(04-20-2017, 07:29 PM)
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Originally Posted by kayos90

I'm literally playing Kayle to plat. At a certain point Kayle will just become unviable I guess... She has to... right?

She's never unviable, but she's the most boring braindead champion in the game.

Well thats probably actually Anivia, but she's close.
kayos90
Tragic victim of fan death
(04-20-2017, 08:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by Newt

She's never unviable, but she's the most boring braindead champion in the game.

Well thats probably actually Anivia, but she's close.

You're telling me I can OTP Kayle my way to diamond?
Leezard
It's Just the
Sweet Scent of Butane
(04-20-2017, 08:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by kayos90

You're telling me I can OTP Kayle my way to diamond?

You can OTP any champ to diamond.
Hydrophobic
Member
(04-20-2017, 08:40 PM)
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Somebody OTP'ed volibear to high diamond in NA.
dimb
Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
(04-20-2017, 09:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Black-Wind

I don't really get the tree's rework.

They were all like "Hey! We wanna make him more of an engage tank! Soooo ... we're gonna do the most common sense thing with his sapplings (play up the VISION aspect and reward it over just using it as a push lane rotation. I agree with this, its a rare skill to be able to make your own wards and it feels more rewarding on most other champs) annnnnd ... make his ult a big slow moving short traveling root. Scary flanks, huh!?!?! ;D".

It is not that hard to understand. Maokai can already force fights with W, so the ult is just a tool to help with that. The damage reduction ult before was a brute force ability that was pretty broken so they took it away. The new ult will push the other team away or force a fight and benefits from being used with a vision advantage that his saplings provide. Also works well over walls.
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-20-2017, 09:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by Newt

She's never unviable, but she's the most boring braindead champion in the game.

Well thats probably actually Anivia, but she's close.

anivia is not braindead, she's op so her skillfloor is lower than it should but her ceiling is pretty high and she's most definitely not braindead. all of her abilities have optimizations to them, that's more than you can say about a lot of champions, and her early game is pretty abusable by certain matchups. being op smoothes out a lot of her issues but that doesn't mean she's braindead

i feel like u in particular are really bad with those kinds of labels

i like complicated champions like orianna, leblanc, syndra and taliyah, if anivia was braindead i wouldn't play her
scy
(04-20-2017, 09:34 PM)
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Anyone else NA still available for trading bird purchases?

Originally Posted by zkylon

i feel like there's always better ways to phrase things

i generally try to avoid words like lazy cos it's pretty obvious rito takes a lot of time and effort to make shit, even if they may be misguided or wrong sometimes

i don't do it always tho, cos it's easy to get pissed off when they fuck up ur favorite champions

I've gotten to the point of just blocking them. The thread's a lot easier to read without the low effort posts shitting the thread up with bad armchair designer talk.

Originally Posted by zkylon

i feel like u in particular are really bad with those kinds of labels

...I mean, that's basically his gimmick.

Or maybe it's the thread's gimmick of "my champ / role most difficult everyone else is trash."
Newt
Member
(04-20-2017, 09:38 PM)
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The problem with Anivia is that you don't really have to be looking to do anything active. As long as you have the mana items, you can just continually waveclear a lane over and over again and then that puts the burden on the other team to do something.

It doesn't help that her base damages are so high that she can just keep building defensive AP items and not really get punished for that.

If you're comparing someone like Kayle and Anivia, I would say they're around the same level of being braindead. It's not like you autowin on Kayle, her early game is complete trash, and her damage isn't very good either.

Originally Posted by scy


Or maybe it's the thread's gimmick of "my champ / role most difficult everyone else is trash."

Nah everyrole has champion that are super good on the sole reason that they lack finesse to their playsyle.

Top - Pantheon
ADC - Lucian (mostly do to botrk, black cleaver and triforce)
Support - Janna
Mid - Anivia/Ahri
Jungle -Ivern
Newt
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:16 AM)
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Inhouse tomorrow.

Nekofrog
Banned
(04-21-2017, 01:19 AM)
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Sorry I won't be around to literally walk on top of you as Mundo newt
JulianImp
Member
(04-21-2017, 01:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by kayos90

You're telling me I can OTP Kayle my way to diamond?

The Teemo otp I watch reached challenger level more than once across multiple accounts, so I'd guess you can otp even there, only you're a lot more likely to get target banned as the active population diminishes and you get to play with the same group of players over and over again.
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-21-2017, 01:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by scy

I've gotten to the point of just blocking them. The thread's a lot easier to read without the low effort posts shitting the thread up with bad armchair designer talk.

the rest of his point was fair, and he wasn't being unreasonably mean (nothing like "whoever designed ivern should be fired"), so i don't think that counts as shitposting or whatever

ppl aren't naturally equipped to discuss design so they'll just speak their mind which does have value. would be nice if they could like format it in a better way but i think we've all been guilty of overreacting at one point or another

except breezy, breezy's opinion holds no value lol

Originally Posted by scy

...I mean, that's basically his gimmick.

Or maybe it's the thread's gimmick of "my champ / role most difficult everyone else is trash."

eh, that's just how discussions around league of legends go

i've had ppl irl talk to me about league in the exact same way and you'll see similar comments on reddit or league boards or whatever

Originally Posted by Newt

The problem with Anivia is that you don't really have to be looking to do anything active. As long as you have the mana items, you can just continually waveclear a lane over and over again and then that puts the burden on the other team to do something.

It doesn't help that her base damages are so high that she can just keep building defensive AP items and not really get punished for that.

If you're comparing someone like Kayle and Anivia, I would say they're around the same level of being braindead. It's not like you autowin on Kayle, her early game is complete trash, and her damage isn't very good either.

most mids can continually waveclear over and over again. syndra, ori, tf, taliyah, ahri, lissandra, velkoz, whatever, they all have safe ways to clear cos that's what midlaners reliably contribute to team comps that other roles can't. in exchange midlaners can't do stuff like killing baron really fast which adcs can, with as little mechanical effort as anivia pressing r on a wave. unless you're cassiopeia, who actually sacrifices some waveclear to be able to burn down big neutrals. this is just the reliable thing different positions do, and it's good for the game that every position gets to do some reliable contribution as well as more skill dependent contributions. every champion has this scale weighted more to one side or the other but i honestly would say anivia has a fair degree of mastery and player expression so to me she probably leans on the other side of the scale?

like i feel like calling a champion braindead implies that there's not noticeable difference between the worst anivia player and the best anivia player which i think is kind of insane?

the other examples you give are kind of all over the place, in general "lacking finesse to their playstyle" seems like a weird concept to apply to that group. like you're just naming ops to me, i would say those champions have little in common other than that being op
Envelope
sealed with a kiss
(04-21-2017, 01:32 AM)
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is xayah mid legit
dimb
Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
(04-21-2017, 01:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Envelope

is xayah mid legit

If you really want to get ganked...
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-21-2017, 01:52 AM)
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she sounds bad midlane to me

her waveclear is pretty weak and she's not an assassin so why would u pick her

she doesn't even have an escape like soda says
Ghost is Bad
Banned
(04-21-2017, 01:56 AM)
tfw talents plays vs an inting support but it's talents janna
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-21-2017, 02:03 AM)
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this kennen fan design is kinda cool
DevilDog
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:36 AM)
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What is the general consensus on Katarina here?
Stone Ocean
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:43 AM)

Originally Posted by DevilDog

What is the general consensus on Katarina here?

Kat is pretty damn good still, she takes a good amount of practice to get used to but she's really fun to play once you do.
Talents
Banned
(04-21-2017, 04:08 AM)
I think Kat's quite bad now actually unless she gets ahead. She's still good if she picks as a counter but I think as a general blind pick she's bad.
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-21-2017, 04:41 AM)
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she's banned so often i don't think i even have an opinion on her. seems strong in the right hands but i couldn't really say

she'll probably get weaker by the time the inevitable gunblade nerfs roll

...



new client is so not ready to be mandatory

i can't even look at my runes...
Newt
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:05 AM)
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I love the new client.
Ever
Banned
(04-21-2017, 05:11 AM)
New client is meh. Decent usability once you get used to where everything's at, but I must admit it took awhile due to how un-intuitive everything is. Chat box being so small is annoying, but I worked around it. Also not being able to talk during champ select is a pain as well. New client needs more work on it, but I'll trade old client for 10 bans ASAP. Make sure Yasuo is never played again.

oh yeah almost forgot



for posterity
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-21-2017, 06:05 AM)
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i don't mind if it's not as usable but it's really buggy
Newt
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:17 AM)
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I think I've found a decent build for Xayah.

dimb
Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
(04-21-2017, 06:21 AM)
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nice client
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-21-2017, 06:45 AM)
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tried xayah, doesn't feel that unique, she feels kind of like of just another adc. landing a billion feather e feels cool tho

rakan seems like much more interesting
Newt
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:52 AM)
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Build still feels good. Man I love this champ, Riot did such a good job.

dimb
Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
(04-21-2017, 07:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by zkylon

tried xayah, doesn't feel that unique, she feels kind of like of just another adc. landing a billion feather e feels cool tho

I mean...she fills the AD Carrier role. She has tons of specific nuances and playcases that make her seem like a very unique champion to me, whether that's the piercing mechanic, the feather play, or just being the only AD carry in the game with a true defensive ult that can potentially counter hard engage.
drawkcaB
Member
(04-21-2017, 08:20 AM)
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The losing skid resumes. The most aggravating part is that throughout the entire thing I've played well enough to win in 75% of my game it just isn't happening.

Originally Posted by Newt

Build still feels good. Man I love this champ, Riot did such a good job.

Awww, you made a friend.

Now kiss.

Originally Posted by zkylon

i feel like there's always better ways to phrase things

And yet even after reflection it's still the word I think best describes my feelings behind Maokai's new kit when compared to the work done on Sejuani and Zac. I didn't say there was no effort put it in. These champions were picked because Riot (correctly) wants to give tanks more "skill expression" I just don't see it in Maokai.

There's things I like in Maokai's rework. The new passive feels more impactful. Whether it's actually better or not, I don't know, but when it goes off it's satisfying. I like that Maokai has a proper interaction with brushes (the saplings). Thematically, it's neat that the two tree champions (Ivern and Maokai) have abilities modified by brush. That's thoughtful to me. I don't think it's a particularly interesting interaction with brush, but that's another story. I like the new sound effects he was given. Everything has a nice crunchy weight to it, particularly on his new Q. I'm in the minority, I think, but I actually like his new VO. Unfortunately there's more stuff I don't like. His Q is roughly the same. In-and-of-itself that's fine, but it goes against the goal of giving the kit more "skill expression". The only difference, outside of some numbers changes (I haven't bothered to check) is that I *think* the line AoE portion is a bit wider..? If my hunch is right, then I don't see how making it easier to land requires more skill from the player. Players are just going to keep spamming this thing every time it's off CD. Twisted advance...I'm going to take Riot as face value when they say that it's bugged at the moment, so I'm not going to touch on anything related to the speed. I will however say that even if they wanted to keep as an on-click ability, you can still add skill expression to those (e.g. Warwick). Saplings have the new brush interaction, which is thematically nice like I said before, but I don't see how there's more skill expression there either. Fair enough, it's already a semi-difficult to pin point land skill shot so maybe it doesn't need more skill in the first place, but I don't think it requires more skill to throw them into the brush since that's where Maokai liked to throw them when he used them as wards anyways. And the ult...well, I saw Soraka bot outrun it when she was about 1.5x the range of Twisted Advance away from me. Feels bad to use. I think it looks visually great, the creeping wall of thorns, the massive width, etc. But holy, talk about a mismatch between what it looks like and the end effect. Even if it's sped up, or some other change is done, I still don't like. At the end of the day, despite Riot describing otherwise in some reddit posts, it really does seem and feel like way slower Nami ult with a root...except that I'll take Nami's ult over it any day. Her ult knocks-up, slows, travels farther, and via her passive speed boosts the team. Maokai roots the first target hit in a line. And I do get it - you can't compare ults because you have to take in the rest of the kit, but Jesus is it ever hard not to do that with Maokai vs. Nami's ultimates. And it being slow...ok, it'll require more skill to land that way sure, but this feels more like clunkiness than anything. A few Rioters commented that the ult when used in a flank is fantastic, and I can definitely buy that argument, but is that niche that needed to be filled, Maokai - The Twisted Flanker?

Just throwing out an idea for Maokai's ult: allies that are touched by the roots gain a significant shield and a small movement speed boost, but it also consumes the root in the same way it does when it roots an enemy on hit. So Maokai can either stand behind and shield his team, or use it at the front and root the enemy team. The width is big enough that if properly angled some roots will shield, some roots will CC. That would provide a link to his old ultimate since it protects allies, but a shield is way easier to balance than a difficult-to-quantify damage reduction passive. It also provides more skill expression because players have to make a legitimate choice in how the ult is used. If people have an issue with an ability that can defend allies and engage, well that particular horse is already out of the barn (Galio).

There's no point in talking about this though unless I can go on about Sejuani and Zac.

Sejuani got the same passive treatment as Maokai where it doesn't last long/is infrequent but is definitely noticeable. 300+ armor/MR (hell, 500+ in the late game) for a few seconds is absolutely noticeable. Feels great. The defensive steroid being front loaded to the start of the fight when she charges in as opposed to a weaker but effectively constant steroid - beautiful. Hits the mark thematically. Her Q doesn't change, doesn't really need to. It's already a skill shot that has to be used with some thought. Her old W was the least skill intensive ability she had. Enemy in range and W off CD? Use it. Now it's a skill shot where the second portion is more difficult to hit, but you're justly rewarded if you hit both portions. But the real genius of the new W is that she can move while casting it and can go in a different direction to where the ability was aimed. Brilliant, truly. It really cements the concept that she's mounted. Bristle and Sejuani are two distinct characters. Is there a better way to show that than by having her attack in one direction while Bristle moves in another? Very thoughtful. Her E stacking is in a way similar to Braum's passive, but definitely with it's own quirks. So the two tanks from the Freljord share some gameplay and thematic similarities. Again, thoughful, very cool. Allied champions being able to initiate the stacks and it only working with melee AAs gives her that "barbarian commander" vibe Riot was looking for as well. The stun effect and popping the stun for big damage are super satisfying. In teamfights it'll be common to have the 4 stacks on multiple enemy champions at the same time and while she can stun all of them in succession, she can't stun all of them at the same time. She needs to make a choice in that scenario - on-click ability with some skill expression. Her ult isn't as good as it used to be (I think, I'm not entirely sold on that) but now it properly rewards long range hits and the stun has been replaced by a potentially very long and strong slow which is thematically consistent with anything Freljord. I've really fallen for this rework. My immediate impression is that her early game is undertuned and late game is overtuned (beyond of what's normally acceptable for a supposed late game champion). numbers are off, etc. and I don't give a flying fuck. It's a solid, solid kit and maybe I'll regret saying this in the future because you never know how things shake out, but I put this rework on a pedestal with Sion (and Tahm, though I'm super biased here) for what a modern LoL tank should be.

Zac's kit changes really cement him as the displacement tank and it fits his style so damn well I kind of wonder why this isn't what we got on release (but season 3 may as well be decades ago). Passive didn't change, and that's totally fine. Unique tanking ability and keeping track of where blobs are landing and collecting them is simple, but does require some skill and it's something players improve on as they play Zac more. The new Q. Awesome. Two instance of skill expression in a single ability without resorting to something mechanically overbearing. First, gotta hit that initial skill shot and then players have to decide what else to slam together. I can easily imagine scenarios where the Zac has to choose behind slamming two very close enemy champions together, resulting in little displacement but two knock-ups, or slamming one enemy champion with a minion located further, only one enemy champ knock-up but they're displaced farther. W is still the same, and I was originally disappointed about that, and to an extent I still am. It's somehow even less thoughtful to use than either Maokai's Q or Sejuani's old W, but it's unchanged. After some thought, it's probably unchanged because of the way W interacts with Zac's passive. The low CD means it's the primary source of blobs of goo for Zac to pickup. Changing could throw the whole health blob (and by extension health cost) scheme out of whack and create a huge headache that might not even be worth it. It's unnforunate Zac still has a "dumb" ability, but it's the right call, and the rest of Zac's kit makes up for it. Zac's E - see Sejuani's Q. Fine as is. His ultimate. I mean, it's self explanatory why his new ultimate is better, right? Can be used as standard knock-up if used immediately, or you can go the high risk, high reward play and displace the opposing backline forward, or whatever cool stuff you decide to do with it. It can even be used to dodge stuff telegraphed abilities like Karthus ult, Lux ult, etc. Freakin' great stuff.

I'm going to give credit where it's due. As far as I'm concerned two of the three reworks hit the mark, and hit it damn well. It'll be the most successful class update Riot has done so the strategy of reducing the number of reworks to make sure they're worthwhile paid off. I'm on board with 90% of the other mid-season stuff on the PBE as well. I'm still not a fan of class updates, particularly with regards to champ reworks. I don't understand why you'd ever give yourself a self-imposed due date for a rework; a due date that is entirely in your control to boot. Maybe my impressions will change if future class updates are as good as this one, who knows.
scy
(04-21-2017, 10:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Newt

Nah everyrole has champion that are super good on the sole reason that they lack finesse to their playsyle.

This point I can agree with (though the specifics of the list itself less so); I'm more talking about the phrasing which kind of belittles the actual point you're trying to make is all.

Originally Posted by zkylon

eh, that's just how discussions around league of legends go

i've had ppl irl talk to me about league in the exact same way and you'll see similar comments on reddit or league boards or whatever

While I agree here on the general community, I'll say that this is also kind of my point with the above. The phrasing and wording things this way kind of diminishes the value of the argument; it becomes less about the validity of the claims and now more about the personal angle.

It's the clickbait title version of arguing, basically?
Newt
Member
(04-21-2017, 10:21 AM)
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Are we so petty that we get caught up in wording? I don't think saying Anivia is a braindead champion is really that controversial of a statement.

Originally Posted by zkylon


most mids can continually waveclear over and over again. syndra, ori, tf, taliyah, ahri, lissandra, velkoz, whatever, they all have safe ways to clear cos that's what midlaners reliably contribute to team comps that other roles can't. in exchange midlaners can't do stuff like killing baron really fast which adcs can, with as little mechanical effort as anivia pressing r on a wave. unless you're cassiopeia, who actually sacrifices some waveclear to be able to burn down big neutrals. this is just the reliable thing different positions do, and it's good for the game that every position gets to do some reliable contribution as well as more skill dependent contributions. every champion has this scale weighted more to one side or the other but i honestly would say anivia has a fair degree of mastery and player expression so to me she probably leans on the other side of the scale?

like i feel like calling a champion braindead implies that there's not noticeable difference between the worst anivia player and the best anivia player which i think is kind of insane?

the other examples you give are kind of all over the place, in general "lacking finesse to their playstyle" seems like a weird concept to apply to that group. like you're just naming ops to me, i would say those champions have little in common other than that being op

There's a big difference to how Anivia waveclears in comparison to other mids. She can do it from good range, and doesn't have to be vulnerable while doing it. Anivia also is much more difficult to dive than a waveclear mid like Ori or Viktor.

Then again, risk free waveclearing isn't the only reason why Anivia is a frustrating, low skill requiring champion. Sure I agree with that there's a variance of skill between a bad and a good Anivia player, but players can easily get rewarded by putting little effort in playing her.
Hydrophobic
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by zkylon

tried xayah, doesn't feel that unique, she feels kind of like of just another adc. landing a billion feather e feels cool tho

rakan seems like much more interesting

I'm on the Rakan hype train. Once people start getting good with him we're going to see some highlight reel plays. HIs initiation range is kind of crazy. Flash -> W can get you like halfway down a lane onto someone. The saving grace there is that the knock up takes enough time that anyone who isn't a potato should be able to flash out.
Leezard
It's Just the
Sweet Scent of Butane
(04-21-2017, 03:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hydrophobic

I'm on the Rakan hype train. Once people start getting good with him we're going to see some highlight reel plays. HIs initiation range is kind of crazy. Flash -> W can get you like halfway down a lane onto someone. The saving grace there is that the knock up takes enough time that anyone who isn't a potato should be able to flash out.

One thing that is very important with Rakan is that you can cast all his spells during his ult, and units that he pass during his movement during W/E during ult are also charmed.

Using W when you have ult active guarantees that you will hit the knockup at least against targets without tenacity. Targets with high tenacity might be able to get out with an escape ability.
Hydrophobic
Member
(04-21-2017, 03:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Leezard

One thing that is very important with Rakan is that you can cast all his spells during his ult, and units that he pass during his movement during W/E during ult are also charmed.

Using W when you have ult active guarantees that you will hit the knockup at least against targets without tenacity. Targets with high tenacity might be able to get out with an escape ability.

I did not know that. That's very good to know.
Leezard
It's Just the
Sweet Scent of Butane
(04-21-2017, 03:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hydrophobic

I did not know that. That's very good to know.

Yeah, it's not obvious that you can do that, especially since the skill and champ spotlights did not show the interactions. Ult + E means that you charm every enemy you pass through during the E dash, which is amazing. The most useful interaction is the Ult + W for a guaranteed 2 second cc though.
zkylon
zkylewd
(04-21-2017, 04:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by dimb

I mean...she fills the AD Carrier role. She has tons of specific nuances and playcases that make her seem like a very unique champion to me, whether that's the piercing mechanic, the feather play, or just being the only AD carry in the game with a true defensive ult that can potentially counter hard engage.

yeah that's what i mean she feels like just another adc to me, lots of specific stuff but still very constricted in the adc classics of having a simple poke ability and a steroid and a tricky cc ability and whatnot. like it feels like in a game she's not that different from caitlyn or jinx or whatever

that's probably great for adcs, but i'm no adc so that all seems kinda lame to me

Originally Posted by drawkcaB

bloop

yeah i didn't feel that particular post of urs was too bad

i agree, maokai is the least interesting of the three, tho i kind of feel like making maokai really interesting would've been out of scope for class reworks, maybe?

also i think the q knockup has less range than before, not sure

Originally Posted by Newt

Are we so petty that we get caught up in wording? I don't think saying Anivia is a braindead champion is really that controversial of a statement.

no pettiness, i just think you have trouble articulating your frustration with a champion and telling apart when a champion is too strong and when a champion is "braindead" or whatever

anivia is a pretty good example of that for me

Originally Posted by Newt

There's a big difference to how Anivia waveclears in comparison to other mids. She can do it from good range, and doesn't have to be vulnerable while doing it. Anivia also is much more difficult to dive than a waveclear mid like Ori or Viktor.

Then again, risk free waveclearing isn't the only reason why Anivia is a frustrating, low skill requiring champion. Sure I agree with that there's a variance of skill between a bad and a good Anivia player, but players can easily get rewarded by putting little effort in playing her.

i'd agree with that last statement if she had a high playrate-high winrate like ahri, but anivia's pretty niche so it's rare to find inexperienced players to compare.

all i know is that i look at her kit and play her myself and she has lots of space for optimization and messing up which is something a lot of other champions that i would consider much easier to play don't have

Originally Posted by Hydrophobic

I'm on the Rakan hype train. Once people start getting good with him we're going to see some highlight reel plays. HIs initiation range is kind of crazy. Flash -> W can get you like halfway down a lane onto someone. The saving grace there is that the knock up takes enough time that anyone who isn't a potato should be able to flash out.

yeah he seems like an interesting addition if anything cos you're not used to seeing a support dash all over a teamfight
Gurrry
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:49 PM)
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Tried Sejuani for the first time last night and damn I had a blast. I want to buy her but im always so hesitant to use my IP. Never thought Id like a melee hero but that charge attack is awesome.
23qwerty
Member
(04-21-2017, 05:56 PM)
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how about we call anivia a birdbrain champion
drawkcaB
Member
(04-21-2017, 06:43 PM)
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I re-ordered my rune pages last night and it seems like the bug where changes don't take is finally gone.

...and then I log in this morning to fool around while the kid was watching TV and not only is all my ordering undone, but pages I delete several weeks ago are back.

Like...what?

Originally Posted by zkylon

yeah i didn't feel that particular post of urs was too bad

i agree, maokai is the least interesting of the three, tho i kind of feel like making maokai really interesting would've been out of scope for class reworks, maybe?

also i think the q knockup has less range than before, not sure

Compared to prior class update reworks I'd probably agree, but then you have the Sej and Zac reworks included with his. They got some pretty hefty changes in their kits along with lots of new animations, effects, etc. Their reworks are a tier below full-on VGUs.

Tried out Maokai again after his most recent PBE patch changes and he feels better to play now but the criticisms still apply. One thing I did notice was that his bursh powered saplings will target and stick to the largest monster in the jungle camp, which is a nice touch to avoid it sticking to lesser monsters. The mana cost is also much lower so it can be liberally used in the jungle. Overall, I'd guess that between this rework and the change to Cinderhulk's passive he'll be in a better spot as a jungler.
scy
(04-21-2017, 07:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Newt

Are we so petty that we get caught up in wording? I don't think saying Anivia is a braindead champion is really that controversial of a statement.

I think that's missing the point being made. It's not about what champion in particular (which, on that note, you used it about Kayle first here) or use X PC word instead but that it's a nondescript empty statement to begin with. I'm simply saying the label in lieu of articulating a point isn't helpful to any form of discussion; just make the actual point in the first place.
Tizoc
Member
(04-21-2017, 08:08 PM)
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I need 500 Blue Essence to get Rakan :S
I'ma drop some IP and get Xayah at least for now.

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