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Audiophile quality PC speakers

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B

Blackheim

Member
No, you don't need an amp since, as you said, they are self-powered. If I read the product description right, the speakers are RCA out and come with an RCA/RCA cable plus an RCA/3.5mm for plugging into headphone jack/speaker port on PC. It would be nice if they had optical, but I'm not stressed about it.

I haven't gotten mine yet so I can't verify, should be here on Monday.

Edit: beaten!
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
dr3upmushroom said:
I'm looking at getting a pair of m200mkiii's to use with my PC and PS3 and I'm not sure how exactly people connect them to stuff. Since they're self-powered, so you still need an amp? Can you get away with just getting a cheap one since you don't need it to power the speakers? My PC only has a VGA and a DVI connection, so what I'd like to do is connect the PC and PS3 to a receiver through HDMI and then send the video to my monitor with an HDMI/ DVI adapter. If I understand correctly there shouldn't be any drop in image quality since it's a digital signal.

The problem is I can't find a stereo receiver that has HDMI in or out. I could get a 5.1 or 7.1 receiver but I hate to pay for something I'm not going to use, especcially when it seems like I don't need an amp in the first place since the speakers are self-powered. How do people usually connect stuff to the Swans? Is there some kind of pre-amp or something I could use that would just process the video and send the sound to the speakers? I guess I don't really need video processing, I could just get video to the monitor through VGA for the PC and an HDMI/ DVI adapter for the PS3 like I'm doing now and send sound to a receiver through optical out of the PS3 and sound card, but I'd like to have a digital signal for everything.
Click to expand...

Well, I have my 360/PS3 connected to my monitor via HDMI, PC via DVI, then I use a preamp to connect the PS3 (optical), 360 (RCA), PC (USB) and it has a knob to switch to any of the sources on command, then I just run my speakers (M10s, but it's not different) through the RCA out.
 
D

dr3upmushroom

Banned
Thanks for the responses, all.

Blackheim said:
No, you don't need an amp since, as you said, they are self-powered. If I read the product description right, the speakers are RCA out and come with an RCA/RCA cable plus an RCA/3.5mm for plugging into headphone jack/speaker port on PC. It would be nice if they had optical, but I'm not stressed about it.

I haven't gotten mine yet so I can't verify, should be here on Monday.

Edit: beaten!
Click to expand...

So I don't need a receiver/ amp to power them, but if I want to connect multiple devices to them I will, right?

I didn't realize that you plug stuff directly into them, that's kind of weird. I could still use them as you would a typical speaker through, right, running stuff into an amp and then just running speaker wire to the Swans? Otherwise, if they don't have optical I wouldn't be able to take advantage of DTS-HD and all the other fancy codecs the PS3 is capable of, right?

So after some quick research, it seems like I could get away with something like this, except way cheaper. Like I said though, I'd probably get better quality if I got a receiver and ran sources into the receiver and then just run wire from the receiver to the Swans than if I ran stuff into a pre-amp and then into the Swans with normal analog cables, right?
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
dr3upmushroom said:
So I don't need a receiver/ amp to power them, but if I want to connect multiple devices to them I will, right?
Click to expand...
Yes.

I didn't realize that you plug stuff directly into them, that's kind of weird.
Click to expand...
I don't know a speaker that doesn't work that way, unless you mean the self-powered part.

I could still use them as you would a typical speaker through, right, running stuff into an amp and then just running speaker wire to the Swans?
Click to expand...
Yes. They have their own active filter for equalization but if you want more control then that is the way to go.

Otherwise, if they don't have optical I wouldn't be able to take advantage of DTS-HD and all the other fancy codecs the PS3 is capable of, right?
Click to expand...
Yeah, you'll need a DAC of some sort, but you won't be fully utilizing DTS HD unless you drop a few more truckloads of money on speakers.

So after some quick research, it seems like I could get away with something like this, except way cheaper.
Click to expand...
Uh yeah that is way overboard but that would be a receiver.

Like I said though, I'd probably get better quality if I got a receiver and ran sources into the receiver and then just run wire from the receiver to the Swans than if I ran stuff into a pre-amp and then into the Swans with normal analog cables, right?
Click to expand...
The difference between a receiver and a preamp (on a consumer level) is video and surround sound codec processing. Most good amps these days have quality DACs so you don't have to worry about going nuts with a receiver unless you need to consolidate video sources and maybe expand into surround sound later. Something like a Musical Fidelity V-DAC probably has enough inputs to do what you want.
 
D

dr3upmushroom

Banned
"I don't know a speaker that doesn't work that way, unless you mean the self-powered part."

I've never heard a pair of nice speakers, but I've always just ran stuff into a receiver and then just ran speaker wire to the speakers, I've never seen a setup where you just plug a CD player/ turntable/ console directly into the speaker with nothing in between.

So I could just use a DAC as a preamp? If I understand right, I'd connect my PC and PS3 to the DAC through optical out, and then run the sound to the speakers with an analog out? Will I still get the HD codecs using analog out with the DAC? This seems like a good route to go, I've heard really good things about the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic, that's a good option?
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
dr3upmushroom said:
I've never heard a pair of nice speakers, but I've always just ran stuff into a receiver and then just ran speaker wire to the speakers, I've never seen a setup where you just plug a CD player/ turntable/ console directly into the speaker with nothing in between.
Click to expand...
That is what makes them like any other active desktop speaker. I guess it is true that there aren't many at this level of quality.

So I could just use a DAC as a preamp? If I understand right, I'd connect my PC and PS3 to the DAC through optical out, and then run the sound to the speakers with an analog out?
*snip*
This seems like a good route to go, I've heard really good things about the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic, that's a good option?
Click to expand...
I believe your PC would be connected via USB. It would kind of take over for your soundcard. If you wanted you could keep your soundcard primary and use the optical out, but I'd only do that if you have a really nice soundcard and want to do other things with it. The MF V-DAC is on the level with the DAC Magic, it just has less inputs and isn't as pretty, but is cheaper.

Will I still get the HD codecs using analog out with the DAC?
Click to expand...
What I'm saying is that things like DTS HD are for a full HiFi home theater setup. Don't worry about that stuff if you're just going to have these Swans. Things like these Swans are more for the world of music and music lovers, and if you want to be utilizing top of the line theater audio as well, you'll have to drop a few thousand bucks to actually take that step up. A decoder in itself isn't going to do it, so there is no sense in dropping a few hundred more to get that decoder without the right setup be driven by it.
 
D

dr3upmushroom

Banned
Alright, cool thanks for the advice. I assume even with the Swans PS3 games and movies are still going to sound awesome, yeah?

Three small concerns (and then I promise I'll quit being a bother). Does using a DAC for gaming introduce any lag between the audio and video? With a receiver it wouldn't be an issue because the receiver is processing everything, but if the DAC is processing the sound while the video is being sent directly to the monitor it seems like lag could be a potential issue.

If I wanted to add a small sub later, would the DAC accommodate that or would I be able to pair a sub with the Swans in any way without resorting to a receiver?

And lastly, if I wanted to add a record player to this setup, would that be an option? Running the record player through the DAC (if that's even possible) I would assume would defeat the point of using a record player, since they're supposed to sound different since they're analog, right? I guess I could still just plug a turntable directly into the speakers and I'd just have to switch back and forth between the DAC and the stuff running through it and the turntable, correct?
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
dr3upmushroom said:
Alright, cool thanks for the advice. I assume even with the Swans PS3 games and movies are still going to sound awesome, yeah?
Click to expand...
Yes.

Does using a DAC for gaming introduce any lag between the audio and video? With a receiver it wouldn't be an issue because the receiver is processing everything, but if the DAC is processing the sound while the video is being sent directly to the monitor it seems like lag could be a potential issue.
Click to expand...
Lag is an issue with a receiver anyway since sound and video process separately. That's why Guitar Hero games have a screen for such things. Quality DACs try to be low-latency so it shouldn't be an issue on that side of things. I'd be more worried with whatever setting you use for your TV creating lag.

If I wanted to add a small sub later, would the DAC accommodate that or would I be able to pair a sub with the Swans in any way without resorting to a receiver?
Click to expand...
You won't need one. If you want more sub than the Swans provide, it is going to be a big sub, and you'll only need that if you have a very large room. Subwoofers are more an invention to add unf to insufficient surround systems. HiFi speakers usually consist of multiple components to cover the full audible frequency range. Normally this is where I'd explain the benefits of biamplification, but the MkIIIs include that internally so no worries.

And lastly, if I wanted to add a record player to this setup, would that be an option? Running the record player through the DAC (if that's even possible) I would assume would defeat the point of using a record player, since they're supposed to sound different since they're analog, right? I guess I could still just plug a turntable directly into the speakers and I'd just have to switch back and forth between the DAC and the stuff running through it and the turntable, correct?
Click to expand...
Yeah, a DAC is just for digital signals. If you want to spin vinyl, you'll want to get a good analog preamp just for that. Also if you're looking at connecting that much stuff, you might want to go ahead and get a receiver or something like the M-Audio I'm getting.

Really, don't worry too much about getting the most refined audiophile components. I can tell by your questions that you'll be amazed, and a lot of the little differences in audio processing that people argue over (such as in this thread) are only for trained ears and carefully crafted rooms, and even then a great deal of it is just personal preference. If you just go with audiophile-recommended entry hardware then there shouldn't be any sound degradation, and most of the sound optimization to you is going to come from speaker and room arrangement rather than cables and processors.
 
D

dr3upmushroom

Banned
Alright, cool. I hope I am amazed, I'm pretty excited to have some decent speakers. I have a pair of Grado SR80's and I've had a couple pairs of nicer headphones so it's not as if I've never experienced decent sounding music before, but hearing music from a speaker is just different.

This will all be going in a dorm room in a few months, so I kind of figured that a sub would be overkill, but I've heard that having a sub makes the other speakers sound better since the crossover will keep them from having to play lows and mids simultaneously, cleaning up vocals and stuff, so I thought it might be worth it to get just like a nice 8 or 10" even if I didn't have it turned up loud or whatever.

The DAC idea seems great to me, but if I do decide I want to prepare for the future in case I do want to get a turntable or add any more consoles or whatever, what are some decent receivers that would good for my situation? The last time I was looking at receivers the Onkyo 605/606 was pretty awesome for price/ performance, is that still the case with whatever their new line is?
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
dr3upmushroom said:
This will all be going in a dorm room in a few months, so I kind of figured that a sub would be overkill, but I've heard that having a sub makes the other speakers sound better since the crossover will keep them from having to play lows and mids simultaneously, cleaning up vocals and stuff, so I thought it might be worth it to get just like a nice 8 or 10" even if I didn't have it turned up loud or whatever.
Click to expand...
The biamplification is to keep them clean like that. Swan advertises this feature on their site but for some reason other sites hardly mention it. The older models don't have it.

The DAC idea seems great to me, but if I do decide I want to prepare for the future in case I do want to get a turntable or add any more consoles or whatever, what are some decent receivers that would good for my situation? The last time I was looking at receivers the Onkyo 605/606 was pretty awesome for price/ performance, is that still the case with whatever their new line is?
Click to expand...
I know all what receivers are good for but I don't know details of specific models. That's not my world, but someone here should be able to help.
 
W

Winged Creature

Member
Dice said:
The MF V-DAC is on the level with the DAC Magic, it just has less inputs and isn't as pretty, but is cheaper.
Click to expand...

Dacmagic is better then the V-dac. Dont get me wrong the V-dac is nice, but the dacmagic is better dac with alot more features.
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Change of plans for me. I'm getting a Benchmark DAC1 PRE, as it is better suited to my needs for what I'll be doing in this first phase of production. I think I'll get some Grado SR325i or RS2i cans to go with it.
 
Dice

Dice

Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Winged Creature said:
Gonna be adding a power-amp to the benchmark pre?
Click to expand...
Ought I? The Swans are self-powered.

Also what is with this Peachtree Nova? It all sounds good but I've heard some less-than-stellar things about it. It is $400 less than the Benchmark...
 
B

Boonoo

Member
I just ordered a Fubar II DAC as my first push into higher quality audio. I figure the best move will be to upgrade things bit by bit as I get an ear for it all. I have a pair of M-Audio AV40s right now, which are working pretty well; I hope that I can hear a difference with the DAV hooked in. Right now I have them just plugged into my motherboard audio out.
 
L

Laekon

Member
I have a 22' x 10' room with a pc at one end that I'm trying to get some good quality sound in. I'm looking at buying the M-Audio AV40's and just wondering if anyone has any issues with them and if they will do okay in a room of this size. I'm not looking at playing my music very loud. Most of my music is indie/rock. I'm not an audio guy and just want some speakers that can put out as much detail as my Sennheiser headphones.

Oh I'm using itunes and a MSI motherboards on-board sound. I'm willing to spend up to $300 but would rather keep it lower. I'm replacing a Kenwood receiver and set of Bose speakers from the mid-90's that don't play with my PC.
 
C

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
Laekon said:
I have a 22' x 10' room with a pc at one end that I'm trying to get some good quality sound in. I'm looking at buying the M-Audio AV40's and just wondering if anyone has any issues with them and if they will do okay in a room of this size.
Click to expand...
I have these and for the price I'd say they're pretty decent. They can play plenty loud. I've used them in a bigger room than yours hooked up to an iPod... no problem at all.
 
L

Laekon

Member
Thanks for the quick reply. For under $150 I'm sure I'll be happy. I tried the Logitech Z-2300 but even with it turned down the bass just kills everything.
 
G

Geneijin

Member
What do people use to elevate their desktop speakers? I forgot about raising them up to ear level with school and all until someone reminded me last weekend. I've been trying to find enough books, but I still need a good few inches and I sort of want it to look visually pleasing. Any suggestions? I'm looking for stands between 5-8 inches high.
 
B

Boonoo

Member
Geneijin said:
What do people use to elevate their desktop speakers? I forgot about raising them up to ear level with school and all until someone reminded me last weekend. I've been trying to find enough books, but I still need a good few inches and I sort of want it to look visually pleasing. Any suggestions? I'm looking for stands between 5-8 inches high.
Click to expand...

I use some 8 inch cinder blocks for mine. Not too visually pleasing, but for a couple bucks they do the trick.
 
G

Geneijin

Member
Boonoo said:
I use some 8 inch cinder blocks for mine. Not too visually pleasing, but for a couple bucks they do the trick.
Click to expand...

Cinder blocks huh? I'm thinking about asking my friend to help me with woodwork, but I don't know how good he is so I haven't requested anything of him to do yet. I'll probably go with cinder blocks depending how this project comes out. Thanks.
 
G

giga

Member
Older, used integrated amp or a more modern HK (3xxx) series stereo receiver?

Looking to spend around ~$200.

With optical input? Or is the price level too low for a dac in there.
 
S

Snytbaggen

Member
I didn't want to make a new topic, and this seemed like a good place to ask. I've recently managed to calibrate the sound in my car (lolz) correctly, and now I'm looking for some good sounding music to test it with. Do you have some recommendations for just good-sounding, well-mastered music? I'm mainly into rock/metal, but can listen to most music.
 
W

Witchfinder General

punched Wheelchair Mike
Snytbaggen said:
I didn't want to make a new topic, and this seemed like a good place to ask. I've recently managed to calibrate the sound in my car (lolz) correctly, and now I'm looking for some good sounding music to test it with. Do you have some recommendations for just good-sounding, well-mastered music? I'm mainly into rock/metal, but can listen to most music.
Click to expand...

Try these:

Megadeth - Countdown to Extinction (Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs remaster)
Subterranean Masquerade - Suspended Animation Dreams
Devin Townsend - Ki
Agalloch - Ashes Against the Grain
Porcupine Tree - Lightbulb Sun
Porcupine Tree - Fear of a Blank Planet
Opeth - Blackwater Park
 
K

kevm3

Member
I've been in the market for a subwoofer... Considering the Rythmik f12gs...

I also need to sell this Harman Kardon 3490.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Just got the M200 MkIIIs in. When I turned them on apparently the knobs were all turned to the highest setting and I had something playing on my computer without my knowledge. Hopefully nothing was damage, don't believe so though since it was only a second. Man, can't wait for these to burn in, they sound great.
 
K

kevm3

Member
Winged Creature said:
http://www.martinlogan.com/products/dynamo1000

I've heard this one, not bad. I do find it hard to integrate a sub into a 2 channel system, not to say it cant be done.
Click to expand...

I've been hearing a lot of rave things about the Rythmik. I believe I heard Martin Logan makes a great subwoofer as well. You have guys like Jim Salk, who makes the Salk speakers say that the Rythmiks integrate extremely well that they essentially disappear.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html

I'd love to get the 15", especially since it's only $100 more money than the 12", but those 15" subs are absolutely monstrous in size. I'll probably end up with the F12g which is said to be better for music and is $50 to boot than then normal F12, the difference being that the 12g uses a paper cone instead of an aluminum woofer and is said to be slightly better for music and lower to moderate volumes, which I listen at.

On another note, I can't believe the amount of improvement I'm hearing once I switched my speakers from out of full range mode, even though I don't have a sub. Everything sounds fuller and it doesn't sound as if the speaker is straining to do things it wasn't meant to do... which makes sense since I don't have full range speakers.
 
B

Blackheim

Member
Alucrid said:
Just got the M200 MkIIIs in. When I turned them on apparently the knobs were all turned to the highest setting and I had something playing on my computer without my knowledge. Hopefully nothing was damage, don't believe so though since it was only a second. Man, can't wait for these to burn in, they sound great.
Click to expand...

Haha, you finally got them. They are nice speakers fo'sho. They really shine at medium to loud volume.

I'm thinking I need a little more bass than what these provide though. Since these are 2.0 speakers, what would be a good sub-woofer solution? Is there a good one, since I'm really satisfied with the MKIIIs I'd rather not have to replace them to add a sub...
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Blackheim said:
Haha, you finally got them. They are nice speakers fo'sho. They really shine at medium to loud volume.

I'm thinking I need a little more bass than what these provide though. Since these are 2.0 speakers, what would be a good sub-woofer solution? Is there a good one, since I'm really satisfied with the MKIIIs I'd rather not have to replace them to add a sub...
Click to expand...

Haha, yup. Sadly I haven't been able to move the volume past ~15 percent since I'm in a dorm right now. :lol I agree with you about the bass though. When I had my M10s (well I still do, but) they added a nice punch that's missing a bit from the MKiiis.
 
K

kevm3

Member
giga said:
kevm3 you still have the HK3490? Might be interested if you want to let it go!
Click to expand...

Hey, what's going on Giga! Yeah, I still got it here. Let me know if you are still interested. How are those RC10s treating you?
 
Z

zhenming

Member
just bought a NuForce UDAC for 100$ and connected it to my Mac Book Pro via their cheap usb cable and was INSTANTLY gratified by clear sounds and punchier bass!! And I thought the sound from the MBP was good, it's like I just opened a door to another world :lol

MacBook Pro > NuForce UDAC > Audio Technica ATH-AD700 and Swans M10
 
V

-viper-

Banned
Are these speakers good?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001IZZ2PE/

Creative Gigaworks T20 Series II

41LpCvHfpKL._SL500_AA300_.jpg


I'm basically looking for speakers to replace my crappy TV sound so I can watch films and play the PS3 with good sound.

They don't have a subwoofer. Does that matter?
 
V

-viper-

Banned
Unknown Soldier said:
Anything made by Creative is by definition not good.
Click to expand...
so what are good speakers for this price range? looking for 2 speakers only. speakers that I can easily connect to my TV for a good price.
 
K

kevm3

Member
Winged Creature said:
dont forget to post pics!
Click to expand...

Most definitely! Hopefully it comes through next week. Fortunately for me, the owner of Rythmik only lives in a town an hour away, so hopefully it won't take long for me to get it. I been waiting forever to get a sub because there's supposedly a ton of musical information I'm missing out on, and adding a subwoofer to do bass allows the main speakers to do what they do best, which are the mid to high ranges... I know that there was a good deal of improvement simply by me moving the option on my speakers from full range to simply connecting to the high range... Can't wait to see what I'm missing out on on the bass side when the sub comes.
 
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