HackTheSlash
Member
I visit the shops everyday. Its the same rotation of stuff all the time. I havent seen anything new in a couple weeks.
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Splatoon 2 |OT2| From Smallfry to FlyFish in 5 Easy Steps!
- Thread starter DaBoss
- Start date
I visit the shops everyday. Its the same rotation of stuff all the time. I havent seen anything new in a couple weeks.
Nah, I've been playing with GAF for two years now pretty regularly. All the hyperbolic time chamber training in the world hasn't measured up to much when my technical limitations are what they are. Same reasons I've never done well in fighting games. My mental speed just never seems quick enough to properly work out what to do and when, I don't react quickly enough, my aim remains trash, and I spend so much time tinkering with random weapons that I personally find interesting rather than working on something actually good that I put myself at a starting disadvantage regularly and never stick with anything long enough to really master it.
The battle records tell the tale. 80-90% of my wins come only when I'm carried in those rooms. Being that much of a dead weight and getting frustrated about it there only brings the fun down for everyone there. I'm not garbage at the game in an overall sense, but I'm not good enough to hang and that's been apparent for a long time. I think my time would be better served on my own and trying to figure things out rather than continue beating my head into a wall.
PadWarrior
Member
You are good Doorman. Don't sell yourself short.
Ugh, just finished a match with 6 Aerosprays in it. Total nonsense. One guy on our team got 7 deaths and only sprayed 260p with his, even though he was level 20. Was probably trolling but I can never be sure. At least it was balanced somewhat with 3 Aerosprays per team, but still. I'd rather them have it so that you never see lobbies with than many of that same weapon, because I'm sure 99% of the people there quit after that match.
Lady Luck with with me today though, as I got that 3rd Ink Resistance Sub Ability on my White Anchor T-Shirt. I now officially have my first piece of perfect gear, and I didn't even have to use any chunks for it.
Lady Luck with with me today though, as I got that 3rd Ink Resistance Sub Ability on my White Anchor T-Shirt. I now officially have my first piece of perfect gear, and I didn't even have to use any chunks for it.
Bah, but I'm at least much better at selling myself short than I am at playing Splatoon.
As for DrArchon's scenario, I assume this qas turf war, not ranked? Either way, the game's matchmaking doesn't take specific weapons into account at all. At best, in ranked it puts weapons into particular categories and tries to match things up that way which can still lead to double-ups and the like. Turf is harder to figure out now that ping seems to be such a big priority, since rooms now aren't filled in the same way they used to be. I'd view it less as a problem with the matchmaking system itself and more a problem of Aerosprays just being way too popular for their own good.
Spiritreaver
Member
Did something happen to spark all the LGBT messages?
I would add to them all, but I can't draw. :|
I would add to them all, but I can't draw. :|
Bah, but I'm at least much better at selling myself short than I am at playing Splatoon.
As for DrArchon's scenario, I assume this qas turf war, not ranked? Either way, the game's matchmaking doesn't take specific weapons into account at all. At best, in ranked it puts weapons into particular categories and tries to match things up that way which can still lead to double-ups and the like. Turf is harder to figure out now that ping seems to be such a big priority, since rooms now aren't filled in the same way they used to be. I'd view it less as a problem with the matchmaking system itself and more a problem of Aerosprays just being way too popular for their own good.
Yeah, it seems like ping is a much higher priority for matchmaking than it was for Splatoon 1. I hardly see any Japanese players in this game, while in the first I can't remember any matches without at least a couple.
I think the problem of super popular weapons like the Aerospray wouldn't be as bad if they'd just let us change weapons in the lobby. At least then you'd have people switch to longer range or at least mid-range weapons after the first match, with hopefully some of the Aerosprays trying to counter the other ones. Instead all you can do is leave and find a new group, and there's no incentive to change weapons because maybe the next group won't have any Aerosprays.
I'm back today with that hot brush info for beginner-to-intermediate players, and anyone else who feels every day is a good day when you ink. I wanted to look at the question, "How do the brushes differ, and is one better than the other?" Before we get to that, though, a small side-question: "Where should I be aiming with these things?" In my tests I found that aiming slightly above the target's center of mass gives the best accuracy and range with the brushes.
With that out of the way, let's look at the inking patterns of these brushes. I used 4 swipes with the regular Inkbrush, and 3 with the Octobrush. These amounts of swipes take approximately the same amount of time, and will get you a kill with each brush within optimal range.
Every 0.15 seconds or so, the Inkbrush sends out a fairly narrow stream of ink up close that opens up about twice as wide in the second half of its travel distance of about 2.2 lines. Every 0.2 seconds, the Octobrush sends out a much fatter and more erratic splash of ink that lands about 2.5 to 2.75 lines away. The second half of its splash is about 50% wider than that of the regular inkbrush. For fast painting, the Octobrush is the winner, though the Inkbrush puts out a more solid path of ink with fewer gaps.
Let's look at the kill ranges and analyze each brush's offensive performance:
I have to apologize for not being very precise with the measurements, but these should be the approximate hitboxes of each brush. Both brushes have a max range (the red zone) at which they can hit the opponent, but probably won't, due to extremely unreliable RNG. At these ranges, TTKs exceed 5 seconds and above, and the inkbrush requires 6 shots to kill, so you shouldn't bother. The orange zone shows what I call the Max Usable Range, at which you could get some kills against opponents with prior damage.
Both brushes also have a good zone (the gold one) within which they can kill with an extra shot reliably. The Inkbrush will take 5 shots, and the Octo will require 4, but all shots should land with few RNG disappointments. Finally, the teal zones show each brush's optimal range, which is a roughly balloon-shaped area within their total respective hitboxes. I think it's clear the Octobrush has an advantage when it comes to going on offense and scoring kills from greater distance.
Starting to wrap things up now; let's look at some TTK stats:
Inkbrush Average TTKs:
Max Usable Range: 1.72 seconds
Good 5-shot Range: 1.0 seconds
Optimal Range: 0.66 seconds
Octobrush Average TTKs:
Max Usable Range: 1.74 seconds
Good 4-shot range: 0.9 seconds
Optimal Range: 0.64 seconds
Huh. Well that's weird. The TTKs are virtually identical at their respective ranges. Seeing this, I can't recommend that anyone pick the regular Inkbrush over the Octobrush unless:
1. You like the feeling of zipping around from place to place and escaping quickly.
2. You like the kit better.
Thanks for reading. If you enjoyed this analysis, you can take a look at some other ones from this thread:
Next time we'll look at Rollers, a class that is much-maligned, and see if their bad reputation is actually deserved.
Code:
[img]https://abload.de/img/splatbrushaimhereyxyli.png[/img]With that out of the way, let's look at the inking patterns of these brushes. I used 4 swipes with the regular Inkbrush, and 3 with the Octobrush. These amounts of swipes take approximately the same amount of time, and will get you a kill with each brush within optimal range.
Code:
[img]https://abload.de/img/splatinkbrushpaintahxnb.png[/img][img]https://abload.de/img/splatoctopaintrrbff.png[/img]Every 0.15 seconds or so, the Inkbrush sends out a fairly narrow stream of ink up close that opens up about twice as wide in the second half of its travel distance of about 2.2 lines. Every 0.2 seconds, the Octobrush sends out a much fatter and more erratic splash of ink that lands about 2.5 to 2.75 lines away. The second half of its splash is about 50% wider than that of the regular inkbrush. For fast painting, the Octobrush is the winner, though the Inkbrush puts out a more solid path of ink with fewer gaps.
Let's look at the kill ranges and analyze each brush's offensive performance:
Code:
[img]https://abload.de/img/splatinkbrushrangew2zid.png[/img][img]https://abload.de/img/splatoctorangez9xxp.png[/img]I have to apologize for not being very precise with the measurements, but these should be the approximate hitboxes of each brush. Both brushes have a max range (the red zone) at which they can hit the opponent, but probably won't, due to extremely unreliable RNG. At these ranges, TTKs exceed 5 seconds and above, and the inkbrush requires 6 shots to kill, so you shouldn't bother. The orange zone shows what I call the Max Usable Range, at which you could get some kills against opponents with prior damage.
Both brushes also have a good zone (the gold one) within which they can kill with an extra shot reliably. The Inkbrush will take 5 shots, and the Octo will require 4, but all shots should land with few RNG disappointments. Finally, the teal zones show each brush's optimal range, which is a roughly balloon-shaped area within their total respective hitboxes. I think it's clear the Octobrush has an advantage when it comes to going on offense and scoring kills from greater distance.
Starting to wrap things up now; let's look at some TTK stats:
Inkbrush Average TTKs:
Max Usable Range: 1.72 seconds
Good 5-shot Range: 1.0 seconds
Optimal Range: 0.66 seconds
Octobrush Average TTKs:
Max Usable Range: 1.74 seconds
Good 4-shot range: 0.9 seconds
Optimal Range: 0.64 seconds
Huh. Well that's weird. The TTKs are virtually identical at their respective ranges. Seeing this, I can't recommend that anyone pick the regular Inkbrush over the Octobrush unless:
1. You like the feeling of zipping around from place to place and escaping quickly.
2. You like the kit better.
Thanks for reading. If you enjoyed this analysis, you can take a look at some other ones from this thread:
Next time we'll look at Rollers, a class that is much-maligned, and see if their bad reputation is actually deserved.
HackTheSlash
Member
MGrant...thanks so much for all your effort in creating these. They are interesting reads for sure!
Looking very forward to the rollers since thats what i mainly play.
Looking very forward to the rollers since thats what i mainly play.
-Yes
-No, afaik it's only through sea snails.
Please don't. It's too depressing
Man, just look at the different between the Inkbrush and the Octobrush. I knew the Octo had more range, but not that much more. Jesus. Doesn't help that the kit is so much better too. Auto-Bomb does pretty much whatever the Splat Bomb does but better, and the InkJet is so good at threatening farther away enemies and sneaking into enemy territory.
I eagerly anticipate the report on rollers and how worthless they are in this game now.
I eagerly anticipate the report on rollers and how worthless they are in this game now.
The difference between brush kill times actually surprises me. Octo normally feels much faster to me but maybe that's just the wider critical space making it easier to hit moving opponents. Also, stuff like this really goes to show why certain weapons are so prevalent in the meta over others. The "variety" at play during what I could catch of Inkstorm over the weekend was pretty depressing. A round where 50% of the players in the match are using Ttek is not my idea of a fun or exciting time.
Mediking
Member
This dedication is amazing. Lol
RandomHopeInc
Member
I honestly don't understand how the rollers are supposedly weaker, I've gotten into a good rhythm there and often have the most kills in ranked. The Curling Bomb is such a great addition to Splatoon.
Honestly, I'm more frustrated by the people using shooters, they seem to have such a tough time splatting opponents.
I'm thinking of getting this game on Wednesday when I get paid, but how is the online community? In terms of numbers as well as the friendliness of the community? I recently just sold all my consoles aside from my switch because I didn't like how the online aspects were, however this game looks incredibly fun.
theaffection
Member
Turf and Ranked dont cut it for me any more... Its all about the Salmon now 😪
I don't know if it's the tickrate or some actual tangible nerf, but rollers feel less consistent in their splats to me, especially with horizontal flicks. Maybe it's just me.
But another thing is just how good the other close range weapons are, i.e. the Octobrush and the Tri-Slosher. It's hard to get excited for any of the rollers when these monsters are available.
HackTheSlash
Member
As i said in an earlier post, minus the Splat and the Carbon the rest are too slow. With a vertical/horizontal flick you can be shot 3-4 times before you get it off. Im really finding Splatoon 2 the maps and gameplay favours faster weapons. Which puts most the rollers at a disadvantage.
And even though the carbon and splat are 'serviceable' they are far from ideal i find if you get in a 1 on 1 confrontation.
I wasn't a roller main. But as far as I can tell:
Roller horizontal flicks paint significantly less. I cannot understate how much less it truly is. They have shorter kill range. They require more accuracy. Vertical flicks return to the kill range from S1 horizontal, but with a longer startup and requiring more accuracy.
I haven't tested this, but I think initial rolling speed is slower, but then builds up to be faster than S1. A trade-off.
The vertical flick paints in a straight line unlike any flick in S1. This provides great mobility options as you can swim thru it. It also helps with painting certain areas. This is the most (only?) really beneficial change.
Roller horizontal flicks paint significantly less. I cannot understate how much less it truly is. They have shorter kill range. They require more accuracy. Vertical flicks return to the kill range from S1 horizontal, but with a longer startup and requiring more accuracy.
I haven't tested this, but I think initial rolling speed is slower, but then builds up to be faster than S1. A trade-off.
The vertical flick paints in a straight line unlike any flick in S1. This provides great mobility options as you can swim thru it. It also helps with painting certain areas. This is the most (only?) really beneficial change.
HackTheSlash
Member
I used to play a lot of multiplayer focused games, the big names like Battlefield and COD Overwatch.
I stopped playing them cause i found the communities toxic and annoying. Getting into Splatoon 2 was a breath of fresh air for me. Honestly, its kinda funny but i think the fact that it isnt easy to just have voice chat in a lobby helps this. Its nice to not hear squeakers or someones music or whatever.
You may see a couple annoying things in the Square with Miiverse like posts. But everyone ive talked to seems quite happy and friendly if you have questions.
CoconutTank
Member
Once a piece of gear is in your inventory, you won't be able to buy it from the regular shops in the plaza anymore. If you ever want to replace gear, you'll have to either buy a replacement from Annie's shop, or look for an Inkling with gear you want and place an order with Murch.
In fairness, I'd venture to say that the Splat Roller is probably the least borked of the rollers in the game. Horizontal flicks across the board just don't work the way they used to. To an extent I don't mind them wanting to get people to use the vertical slash more for offense, but even those are finnicky and in the case of the dynamo and flingza, extremely slow. Like the case of many currently-marginal weapons, there are other weapons that generally work just as well if not better in all facets, and with less margin for error.
Dang, where was MGrant during the Splatoon 1 days?
Another great write-up. While the results may seem very similar, online the Octobrush is the better if the two due to latency and the refresh rate in game allowing that weapon to get away with more with less effort.
And rollers...the only ones that will be sad are the Carbon and Dynamo. Flingza has weird design decisions and the Splat Roller, like someone previously stated, is the best one. Looking forward to those test results.
Another great write-up. While the results may seem very similar, online the Octobrush is the better if the two due to latency and the refresh rate in game allowing that weapon to get away with more with less effort.
And rollers...the only ones that will be sad are the Carbon and Dynamo. Flingza has weird design decisions and the Splat Roller, like someone previously stated, is the best one. Looking forward to those test results.
That's great, that is exactly what I'm looking to avoid! Once I get the game is there like a GAF lobby to join or is it all through friend codes?
spyroflame0487
Member
Is there really no where to look for the Salmon Run times besides loading the game up and looking? I want to make some plans with my friends to do it before the end of the month so i can get that hat but...damn why don't they have the times on Splatnet?
When *is* the next time for Salmon?
When *is* the next time for Salmon?
Tacorona72
Member
2 Steel Eels, 2 Stingers, and 2 Steelheads ot to mention a a bunch of Cohocks on high tide. Fun runs...
Hello! I know that this is old and the new talk of the town is the Brush analysis you made, but I would still like to provide some insight into your bucket analysis, mostly stemming from the fact there are multiple points you omit to mention.
First of all, the TTK stats you used, I assume you measured the times someway while mashing the ZR trigger to get the results you posted, and if that is the case I hope you understand that simply mashing the trigger button with a bucket is not optimal, as there are recovery animations/frames between each slosh, and the game won't just buffer your inputs to guarantee perfect consecutive sloshing.
Onto your explanation about "fat bullets", it's not as simple as that, due to the fact that ink thrown and hitboxes are not equal in the game, every bit of ink you throw, with any weapon, does not equal a hitbox that hurts another player. In the Slosher's case, each slosh consists of 3 different hitboxes of varying sizes, and these do not align with the ink pattern perfectly. More importantly, Slosher's hitboxes come out sooner in the animation than the Tri's do, while the Tri-Slosher has an overall shorter animation, this means that a regular Slosher can land the first hit faster, while the Tri lends itself to repeated sloshing more easily. These hitboxes don't work on a 2D plane either, they arc, separate and sometimes overlap, which is why there are deadzones on both buckets depending on the angle at which you slosh, this effect is much more noticeable on the Tri, since the hitboxes for the side splashes and the main splash are already separated, and it's longer range affects it's ability to arc.
I mentioned the arc, but please let me talk more about it, since it is the Slosher class' main distinguishing feature. The arc that the sloshing hit boxes take depending on your angle varies not only by the range of each bucket, but also by their intrinsic stats. OG Slosher has much more pronounced arcing than the Tri does, and this combined with it's range let's it land hits from several more angles and positions than the Tri can. This is a big deal.
All of this comes down to my reaction to your final thoughts on the comparison, "the Tri-Slosher is obviously better than the regular Slosher at just about everything.", and I'm sorry to say that it is straight up false:
The Tri is not objectively better at turf coverage. It has wider ink coverage, but it is spotty, with the gaps (which actually vary in shape with each slosh) leaving empty spaces that you would need to cover with more sloshes, while the OG Slosher has a consistent patter that only varies slightly on the curvature of the sloshing's "tail". In reallity, Tri, being faster, can cover more inmediate turf quicker, but the OG provides more consistent coverage, which stacks up at the end of a Turf War.
The Tri is not better overall at splatting people. It's better speed allows it to perform better on this netcode to land hits in face to face scenario, but the OG is actually much better a killing people from a distance, more specifically, distances where you have terrain advantage due to the angles you use to slosh people. This leads into the final thing you mentioned the Tri being better at...
The Tri is not better overall at flanking either. Sure, you can sneak behind somebody and the Tri will kill them faster, but that only accounts for flanking scenarios where you use the bucket like a shooter. OG Slosher's better arcing and range lend themselves to many more flanking opportunities from positions an average opponent will not see coming.
In the end I can't help but feel that this analysis, while well made and intentioned, doesn't take into account the fact that Sloshers are not Shooters, they do not play at their best on the same scenarios as shooters do, and not acknowledging the function a Bucket provides is a disservice to the class and leads to people misunderstanding their difference and how their design is balanced against the other weapons classes. Tri-Slosher is hella good in the current meta and netcode we have, but it is not really because the bucket itself is overpowered or superior, it's because:
1. It is simply thriving under the current enviroment where long range weapons are few and everybody is just pushing forward head on and hoping the tickrate will be on their side.
2. Ink Armor is god damn stupid and needs to be nerfed
When the Tri inevitably gets nerfed due to all the overblown backlash, you can bet that if Ink Armor stays the same, people will just jump over to the N-Zap and find another thing to complain about (that in reality will be the same thing).
Oh, and one more thing...
This...is not correct at all, Buckets and Bamboo work nothing alike, I'm sure some of the old Bamboo players from discord will chime in on this soon enough.
It's in the Splatoon page of the Nintendo online app.
Thanks so much for this post. There's a lot I've yet to learn, and I didn't even think to factor in the things you mentioned. I'll add your post to the end of my next analysis; bucket folks should really read this one.
ivanthebearable
Member
I kinda wanna start playing with SplatGAF but my competitive Splat days are long loooong over and I feel I probably wouldn't compete with all y'all. I'm extremely out of practice, specially since I split my time with Overwatch and Splatoon 2. Don't wanna drag you guys down lol.
I'll never hit this game's equivalent of S+99 like I did last game 😪
Judd will give you a super sea snail for each level up from 30-50. Given that there's no cash-for-slots/rerolls in this game and you can only do that with snails, it's not an insignificant reward.
ivanthebearable
Member
Wait, there isn't? So doesn't there come a point where money is meaningless because you've bought everything?
Money will never be meaningless in this game thanks to Scrubbing and the Splatnet Shop.
SinCityAssassin
Member
Nah the cash thing comes eventually. Along with new waves of gear, more uses for cash comes with the updates.
Tacorona72
Member
Just had a 4v1 match. That shit shouldn't exist. I feel really bad for the person
The à¹ÛBronx
Member
I thought that only showed the current one, not the next one?
Things are all out of whack with balance, but I don't know that Splat 1 was all that much better with meta picks at this point in the game's lifetime... Or near the end. Every game had an E-Liter, every game had a Tentatek. That's just the way things were.
Oh and then every random Tower Control game had at least two or three QRSJ Luna Blasters lol.
Not that 1 being bad with variety is an excuse for 2. Wish they solved the issue instead of continuing the problem.
Oh cool! For some reason I thought it was only every 30 games after reaching level 50. Lots of misinformation going around (I read that from level 30 you could use money to unlock slots but then I hit 30 and nope
). Also thanks Heng for answering my questions.