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The loss of Obamacare would be like a death sentence but they’d vote for Trump again

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Bold One

Member
I wish I could understand such sentiments, but I really can't.

Instead of letting people die off or even suggesting they deserve it, how about working harder to improve education so that these voters can make more educated choices? I know there are roadblocks along the way, but damn, I will never understand gloating about the likely/eventual deaths of others. They are still human beings however misguided they may be.

If you don't want to deal with them directly or reason with them, or think they can't be reasoned with, fine. That doesn't mean there aren't other avenues to work towards improvement. Push harder on education or ways to get people out of the rural hell so many live in and maybe they'll start to open up a bit and see the world in a different light.

Just because things are a circus right now (to say the least), don't let it take your humanity in the process.

Find new avenues

Improve Education

You're incredibly idealistic or hopelessly naive.

Neither I nor the poster you quoted want these people dead - but the fact of the matter is that they are willing to die and in the process take many innocents with them for their own ideological beliefs or just outright malicious ignorance. I highly doubt that you would be as concerned reaching people or the sanctity of their existence if these were ISIS agent (but I digress).

You talk about improving education - these people would once again vote for a party that would pass Betsy Devos as head of education - at this very moment they are helping to dump coal in your nation's rivers and are working hard to erase any progress made in Climate Change science over the last decade. These are the sort of people who see truths and lies as lies as truths.

I take no pleasure in seeing anyone suffer - but real people are going to die because these people are either too evil or too stupid to see sense - and a few of us just don't have the time to sail in a ship where half the crew are constantly to sink it.
 
I don't think we're ever going to recover from this election. It's like people have decided to just stop using their brains.

Nothing insightful here. Really at a loss on how to have dialogue with these people.
 
I wish I could understand such sentiments, but I really can't.

Instead of letting people die off or even suggesting they deserve it, how about working harder to improve education so that these voters can make more educated choices? I know there are roadblocks along the way, but damn, I will never understand gloating about the likely/eventual deaths of others. They are still human beings however misguided they may be.

If you don't want to deal with them directly or reason with them, or think they can't be reasoned with, fine. That doesn't mean there aren't other avenues to work towards improvement. Push harder on education or ways to get people out of the rural hell so many live in and maybe they'll start to open up a bit and see the world in a different light.

Just because things are a circus right now (to say the least), don't let it take your humanity in the process.

I've begun deep dives into the job candidates' applications I review. If I find info indicating they support Trump or the GOP I just veto the application.

My sincere hope is that Trump voters wise up, until they do my plan is to just make their lives as miserable as possible, with the small amount of power I possess.

Welcome to the new Cold-Civil War, shitheads.
 

Dunkley

Member
In hindsight, I'd say democracy was a mistake because nobody ever thought about the consequences of allowing people this stupid to vote.
 

drspeedy

Member
Tribalism is some strong juju.

People would rather die than leave their "tribe" and/or admit that their long-held beliefs are wrong.

Besides politics, see also religion.

Openly pandering to GOP talking points by pundits has really reinforced this in the past 10-15 years.

It's easy to fall into the echo chamber and get stuck there when you're being told repeatedly that what you want to hear is the truth. The same way it'd be easy to get type II diabetes if someone gave you candy any time you wanted it.
 

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
It's what Ted Koppel put to Hannity - ideology over facts. Ideology over self-interest, even, seems to be at play.
 
People die for their political beliefs all the time.

I only feel sorry for the people they are trying to take with them. The people who tried to cancel out their death wish vote but couldn't due to a broken electoral system and now have to suffer the same as them.
 
Well there was a tv series about how bad the us healthcare system was. Its called Breaking Bad. And people want to go back to that?
 
"We voted for Trump. Sure, my husband will die, but think of all of the blacks he'll kill."

I'm struggling to fathom it, but it really does seem like many in this country are so racist that they'll gladly lower the quality of their lives just to stick it to Hispanics and black people that are in a similar economic situation.

Of course, most of these people have never conversed with a person of color before.
 

greepoman

Member
In hindsight, I'd say democracy was a mistake because nobody ever thought about the consequences of allowing people this stupid to vote.

Actually Socrates thought of this exactly and was against democracy because of it:

http://www.thebookoflife.org/why-socrates-hated-democracy/

One choice quote:

He asked us to imagine an election debate between two candidates, one who was like a doctor and the other who was like a sweet shop owner. The sweet shop owner would say of his rival: Look, this person here has worked many evils on you. He hurts you, gives you bitter potions and tells you not to eat and drink whatever you like. He’ll never serve you feasts of many and varied pleasant things like I will. Socrates asks us to consider the audience response: Do you think the doctor would be able to reply effectively? The true answer – ‘I cause you trouble, and go against you desires in order to help you’ would cause an uproar among the voters, don’t you think?
 
Republicans have as much of a chance passing pro-LGBT legislation as they do passing universal healthcare reform, i.e. absolutely none.

You're trying to cling to a possibility that cannot exist because it would run against everything the Republican party stands for. By failing to understand this, you are only hurting yourself instead of facing reality. In a sense, you're no different from the people of this story because you refuse to acknowledge what Republicans actually want.

What is that? Something that is zero-sum?
 

VariantX

Member
Its like these people discovered the eye of the stove was hot, but failed to learn the simple lesson most children learn, not to place your hand back on it under any circumstances because it fucking burns.
 
This why, ultimately, Russia's influence on the election itself was not as big as people want to believe.

Yea, Trump and Co. probably have personal business deals riding on Russian sanctions being lifted and whatnot, but so far as the election goes, millions of Americans willingly voted for Trump because they hate liberals, diversity and anything that even looks anti-Christian or anti-Patriotic from a Nationalist point of view. Even to the point of spiting themselves. These people are racists, sexists and bigots and they don't give a fuck about marriage equality or LGBT rights or minority programs or any equality for that matter.

They even convinced themselves that Obamacare was killing "their" America.
 
I never liked Obamacare. It's expensive for consumers and built on lies. We needed Bernie so bad. As we require reform that reigns in drug companies, medical device manufacturers, and some nurses/doctors making way too much money. Then we can address how to efficiently cover those costs.

I have a supremely liberal gay buddy who was on the cheapest public plan and he said it was much worse than the state public plan it replaced. Obamacare was effectively worthless insurance given his costs. He was very angry about Hillary/Obama bragging about how many newly insured Americans there are.

My typically blue voting mother-in-law voted Trump because my father-in-law's job dropped coverage and healthcare was too expensive under Obamacare to cover a rotator cuff tear. She compared Trump promising universal coverage (at times) and Clinton making more promises about "fixing" Obamacare. She would've otherwise voted Bernie because all she cared about in that election was affordable medical bills.

I hate Trump, but I understand how the election became a referendum on Obamacare for many people and why the dems who defended it lost.
 
the shocking part to me is the price of the medicine... 6000$ a month? this is messed up!

Conserning these guys? People are freaking dumb, nothing new
 
I'll have some sympathy for these morons when they get some sympathy for everyone else. Until then, they can suffer the consequences of their ignorance.
 
Its like these people discovered the eye of the stove was hot, but failed to learn the simple lesson most children learn, not to place your hand back on it under any circumstances because it fucking burns.

They're not stupid, they're malicious. They know putting their hand of the stove hurts, they do it because it makes them laugh when the adults start freaking out.
 
What is that? Something that is zero-sum?

Republicans want tax cuts for the wealthy and business friendly legislation at the expense of literally anything else.

To get these things they will dismantle every regulation or social safety program they can and slash budgets to afford it, and shrink government to the point that any effective oversight is impossible.

Some of them are ideologues that don't believe government works in principle and want to destroy it letting "the market" figure things out like some benevolent deity, the rest are simply motivated by greed and Bible belt bigotry.
 
It's almost the same thing with infrastructure. Now they want a poor mans version of it because the Republicans say it, when they could have gotten the full version under Obama.
 
It never surprises me how people can be manipulated against their own best interest. Throw out some ideological garbage backing up what ever your saying and they buy it with out question. Critical thinking is a rare skill it seems.
 

Sol..

I am Wayne Brady.
In hindsight, I'd say democracy was a mistake because nobody ever thought about the consequences of allowing people this stupid to vote.

Not only did they think about it, but its been a point of contention since the beginning. Adam Ruins Everything has an ok episode on this within the context of our own democracy.
 

Effect

Member
Everyone hopes that but their attempt at something better just got aborted on the House floor. Their something better was grotesquely worse in a hilariously sad way.

The thing about hoping for republicans to do something better is that so many people forget (or maybe don't know) a very important thing. The Affordable Care Act is a pretty much the republican idea. That's what their plan was a long time ago (80s/90s). It's why Romney ended up doing something similar to it in Massachusetts. Obama and the Dems took those plans and ideas and molded them into what is now the ACA or Obamacare because they believed that was the most viable solution given the climate they were in as a single payer option was a non-starter and would never have passed. Especially considering what they had to do to get the ACA passed. I guess the idea was that republicans would be more willing to vote what was pretty much their own idea. The hate for the black man in the White House ran that deep because they didn't.

This is why republicans can not and will not offer something better. Their possible "better" (assuming they'd really want to actually help people and not screw them over) is already the law of the land. The only way you can go better now is genuinely improve the ACA or go further in the direction of single payer no matter how slowly. This is why you see states, both red (finally) and blue, expanding Medicaid for people.

I honestly have no sympathy or compassion for anyone that understands what they need to survive and live and then will still back people that are literally saying they're going to take it away and destroy it.
 
Man if only they hadn't been against it from the beginning? Governors refusing to let their states in (increasing the cost due to smaller pools of people) and moving in ways to push insurance companies out for the last several years.
 

RionaaM

Unconfirmed Member
I can't manage to feel any sympathy for these people. Voting for Trump was always against their interests, they knew that was the case, and they voted for him anyway. They screwed themselves (and the rest of the US) over deliberately. And the worst thing? They haven't learned anything, because they say they'd do it again.
 

BajiBoxer

Banned
I wish I could understand such sentiments, but I really can't.

Instead of letting people die off or even suggesting they deserve it, how about working harder to improve education so that these voters can make more educated choices? I know there are roadblocks along the way, but damn, I will never understand gloating about the likely/eventual deaths of others. They are still human beings however misguided they may be.

If you don't want to deal with them directly or reason with them, or think they can't be reasoned with, fine. That doesn't mean there aren't other avenues to work towards improvement. Push harder on education or ways to get people out of the rural hell so many live in and maybe they'll start to open up a bit and see the world in a different light.

Just because things are a circus right now (to say the least), don't let it take your humanity in the process.

Quite frankly, that's impossible. Republicans have all the power over such things, especially at the local level. They control their own education, and we can't change that through any government action. It's also a whole lot of effort to convince a dwindling self destructive demographic for minimal gain.
 

Keasar

Member
So, they voted for this guy. He threatens to kill them by taking away their insurance, which they oppose. They'll still vote for him again?

...

Did I ever tell you definition of insanity?
910v8bla.jpg
 

R0ckman

Member
For a lot of people, religion. A vote for democrats is a vote against God, since they don't trust his Plan (climate change, etc), want to kill babies by allowing abortion, support sinful and Godless lifestyles, and so on.

What bible are THEY reading? Lol.
 
The US elite have the game on lock. Race was the best thing to ever happen to them. As long as minorities are here a great chunk of the white populace will refuse to wake up.
 
Aside from getting health insurance coverage for everyone, we really need to crack down on the cost of prescription medicine. $6000 a month is ridiculous.
 

Dunlop

Member
How could people consider this reasonable?
It's not at all, but that it's a whole different crazy topic.

I remember a post here about a woman that needed 2 doses of anti venom while in the hospital.

It comes from Mexico and costs $100 if you were to purchase in Mexico.

The cost in the US after a company purchased distribution rights and hospital mark up...$35,000 a dose
 

Dram

Member
These people are life long Republicans, so it doesn't surprise me they would vote against their best interests. I'm more interested in hearing from Democrats that depend on Obamacare to help them live, but still decided not vote for Hilary.
 

EGM1966

Member
I just didn't not get it. I mean I do conceptually but I just keep coming back to: why don't they think critically like me? Why don't they chose outcomes not based on predisposed bias (which is nuts) but actual available data and chose for the best outcome?

In short WTF is up with the reality processing of so many people's brains? I just struggle with it. More morally because to me if you're not processing reality correctly then you're mentally impaired but I find myself ethically resisting notion such a high percentage of population might actually not be operating with full faculties.

I mean when you're talking healthcare that keeps you alive: what insanity makes you put that stuff risk for no viable alternative?
 

Lyn

Banned
I highly doubt that you would be as concerned reaching people or the sanctity of their existence if these were ISIS agent (but I digress).

Actually, I would be. I believe redemption is possible, especially when you begin to understand WHY people are like they are. Not everyone can be saved of course, but I do believe many people can change when given the opportunity. As a quick example regarding ISIS, a lot lower level people taken in are youth who feel hopeless, unwanted, poor, or suffered abuse/violence. They just want to belong, and groups like this are making them feel like a part of something bigger, even if that something is terrible. That is one reason why they are able to recruit even in the US, a place not exposed to the constant war/violence that often leads others to extremism.

I believe helping people is possible if we are able to put aside our own bias and actually look at the issues, what causes people to act/function a certain way, and then work towards fixing it. It won't be easy of course, and I am not under the impression that problems can be stopped entirely, but I do know the right path is not always the easiest. Perseverance is essential to helping improve our situation and the world at large.

You talk about improving education - these people would once again vote for a party that would pass Betsy Devos as head of education - at this very moment they are helping to dump coal in your nation's rivers and are working hard to erase any progress made in Climate Change science over the last decade. These are the sort of people who see truths and lies as lies as truths.

Yet when people are uneducated, many in rural areas having a high school diploma only or less, what do you truly expect to happen? We already know education as a whole in this country is lagging behind a great deal in comparison to many countries, so imagine just how bad it is for those in small towns here. It is as though people are expecting those with very little formal education to understand the ins and outs of politics, economics, healthcare, etc.

I will accept that maybe I am a bit naive, but this is coming from someone who grew up and currently lives in a small town and sees what goes on around here. What I do know is that I will not let what is going on now destroy my humanity to the point I would consider the world better off if a large portion of the population were dead.

I've begun deep dives into the job candidates' applications I review. If I find info indicating they support Trump or the GOP I just veto the application.

My sincere hope is that Trump voters wise up, until they do my plan is to just make their lives as miserable as possible, with the small amount of power I possess.

Welcome to the new Cold-Civil War, shitheads.

Good job. Keep those people oppressed. What better way to reinforce their views and make sure they keep voting the way that they do.

I would like to think GAF is better than the quote above, although I guess I am the odd one out since nobody else seems bothered by such a post.

Quite frankly, that's impossible. Republicans have all the power over such things, especially at the local level. They control their own education, and we can't change that through any government action. It's also a whole lot of effort to convince a dwindling self destructive demographic for minimal gain.

That is why I mentioned that there are road blocks along the way, but that is not a reason to give up on working to improve a situation. You could also bypass it by offering incentives for people to move to Democrat controlled areas. One of the biggest hindrances for rural people is not having the ability to move, or not knowing if they can survive when they get to places that generally have a higher cost of living. Maybe if they had a helping hand, they could escape where they are now and be surrounded by people who could influence them towards different views.

Just random thoughts there though, I know it is easier said than done. Surely there are plenty of solutions to explore instead of just pointing at people, calling them idiots, and shrugging our shoulders waiting for them to die off.
 

Sulik2

Member
I just didn't not get it. I mean I do conceptually but I just keep coming back to: why don't they think critically like me? Why don't they chose outcomes not based on predisposed bias (which is nuts) but actual available data and chose for the best outcome?

In short WTF is up with the reality processing of so many people's brains? I just struggle with it. More morally because to me if you're not processing reality correctly then you're mentally impaired but I find myself ethically resisting notion such a high percentage of population might actually not be operating with full faculties.

I mean when you're talking healthcare that keeps you alive: what insanity makes you put that stuff risk for no viable alternative?

Congratulations, you are starting to understand the power of propaganda and why unlimited free speech as the USA tries to have is a fallacy. You need censorship of speech that is an outright rejection of objective reality in a democracy or over time the simple noise of propaganda in the information age can destroy the basically ability to think within your society.

Also, republicans have spent decades destroying education in the red states so they can manipulate their base. If you can barely read and have learned no critical thinking skills in school it becomes much harder to comprehend the complexities of reality and simple lies become much more appealing.
 

R0ckman

Member
These people are life long Republicans, so it doesn't surprise me they would vote against their best interests. I'm more interested in hearing from Democrats that depend on Obamacare to help them live, but still decided not vote for Hilary.

This is insane and terrifying that people are THIS stupid. It feels like they are willingly giving up their ability to think.

This left right paradigm is a terrible platform to run politics on. The overall population isn't intelligent enough for it to work or more so its a symptom. Things that aren't simplistic get too pegion holed, and since people by a whole are more likely going to group think and decide based on a "team" mentality, the results will be disastrous with conflict being the only thing that really effects if progress is made, rather than reasoning and judgement for the issues.
 
I wish I could understand such sentiments, but I really can't.

Instead of letting people die off or even suggesting they deserve it, how about working harder to improve education so that these voters can make more educated choices? I know there are roadblocks along the way, but damn, I will never understand gloating about the likely/eventual deaths of others. They are still human beings however misguided they may be.

If you don't want to deal with them directly or reason with them, or think they can't be reasoned with, fine. That doesn't mean there aren't other avenues to work towards improvement. Push harder on education or ways to get people out of the rural hell so many live in and maybe they'll start to open up a bit and see the world in a different light.

Just because things are a circus right now (to say the least), don't let it take your humanity in the process.
They're too far entrenched in hate. I've got no sympathy for those who don't have any for minorities, LGBT or anyone besides those they can identify with.

The US elite have the game on lock. Race was the best thing to ever happen to them. As long as minorities are here a great chunk of the white populace will refuse to wake up.
This. The game was over before it started.
 

Guevara

Member
Some people really believe that a handout is oppressive. That government assistance is literally degrading and dehumanizing. That helping people just leads to people learning to become helpless.

That it is therefore morally right to starve to death, or to die of a preventable disease, or to suffer without treatment if you are not able to afford it "honestly".
 

Mung

Member
There is a well known explanation why the poor vote for right wing parties who are anti poor. It's because they end up voting based on 'values'. Anti gay, anti immigration, racism etc.
 
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