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Collingwood
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(03-20-2017, 10:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by cakely

I assure you, I read the article. The title of the article is implies that they might mention what being the "world's biggest racing IP" implies, but it doesn't.

The closest it comes is this quote:

The article just seems like a regular piece about th history of the two studios and the overall quality of the Forza franchise. Which IS the one area where I'd argue Forza has overtaken Need for Speed and Gran Turismo. Consistent quality and studio management.
Springy
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by cakely

I assure you, I read the article. The title of the article is implies that they might mention what being the "world's biggest racing IP" implies, but it doesn't.

Originally Posted by EGM1966

There are and they're not bad but they don't really relate to the stupid title which is what's causing the issue.

Maybe if the article had an actual title that made sense for it's content this wouldn't happen.

You're both right, but at the same time, I spent less time reading the article than I did trudging through four pages of:

"No, it isn't."
"Yes, it is."
"No, it isn't."

Discussion board, indeed.

Considering the interesting content, which OP kindly picked from and which I assume is the intended focus of the thread, who cares this much?
-----------------------

The section of the article that discusses the studios' relationship is really interesting. That relationship differs from one where two studios report independently to the same publisher, because as the Playground guy says, "It is not your typical publisher/developer relationship because Turn 10 is a developer as well. We speak the same language. We work with the same tech base." Equally, it's not like they're developing alternating numbered or equivalent titles in the franchise: they're appealing to separate demos, which probably helps their ability to work productively together.

The way I see it, Playground and Horizon energized the franchise. I wouldn't be surprised if they saved it.
DR2K
Doesn't buy fighting games to actually play them
(03-20-2017, 10:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

omg, okay, that was stupid.

but gt?

hasn't even come out yet. there is a reasonable case to be made that forza is the biggest racing ip of this gen.

Not really. If you have to use the terms, "but" "if you don't count" "if we use this specific metric" then it's a flimsy claim.
Megatron
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:33 PM)
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Do we have sales numbers for gt6? I was under the impression that it bombed?
Kill3r7
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Megatron

Do we have sales numbers for gt6? I was under the impression that it bombed?

Last time we got numbers it was around 5M or so. Certainly down compared to the previous heights of the franchise but still a very healthy number, especially for a dying genre.
phantasmic_glaive
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:37 PM)
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Originally Posted by Megatron

Do we have sales numbers for gt6? I was under the impression that it bombed?

5+ million
https://www.google.com/amp/www.games.../1100-6442540/

With those numbers garret posted for Forza, it either came close or sold more than forza 5 and up combined.
KAOS
Member
(03-20-2017, 10:38 PM)
Forza Horizon 2 & 3 are two of my favorite racing games of all time!
nemisis0
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(03-20-2017, 10:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by azertydu91

I'd say since Hot Pursuit from 2010

I would say since need for speed carbon
pswii60
(03-20-2017, 10:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

forza 5 - 1.3m http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...n-xbox-history
forza 6 - 1m+ https://www.videogamer.com/news/rise...-million-units
forza horizon 2 - 382,089 first week sales (no updated figures) https://mspoweruser.com/forza-horizo...week-xbox-one/
forza horizon 3 - 2.5m+ http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/13/145...orizon-3-sales

yeah, totally a dumb title.

Insane that we've had all that this gen (with likely another on the way this year) but still not a single GT title.
LordBaztion
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(03-20-2017, 10:57 PM)
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Microsoft's model of a studio overseeing a franchise is not inherently bad, as Turn 10 proves however the problem with Halo and Gears is that both franchises are in highly competitive genres and it's harder to outpace competition in the way Forza does (without demeriting the series because they are moving forward the genre).

I think 343 and Coalition should work with more partner studios (like 343 with CA) to bring something fresh to the table while giving their main serie enough time to innovate and be the best it can. Not necesarilly working on spin-off but also overseeing new franchises for it to follow MS' objectives.
Bishop89
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(03-20-2017, 11:07 PM)
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Mario kart and GT are much bigger. The hell with this article.
Dynasty
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:08 PM)

Originally Posted by Bishop89

Mario kart and GT are much bigger. The hell with this article.

The title is stupid but the article does provide some good information.


Originally Posted by pswii60

Insane that we've had all that this gen (with likely another on the way this year) but still not a single GT title.

Dont worry it is coming out this year
Last edited by Dynasty; 03-20-2017 at 11:12 PM.
WillyFive
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(03-20-2017, 11:16 PM)
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This trend of calling car simulators under the label of "racing games" is so dumb. It's obvious people are just thinking of car sims when they think of the name 'racing games'.

Especially because you get dumb stuff like this:

Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

and many would argue mk8 is karting rather than racing.

m23
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bishop89

Mario kart and GT are much bigger. The hell with this article.

Did you even read the article?
hanspampel
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(03-20-2017, 11:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by phantasmic_glaive

5+ million
https://www.google.com/amp/www.games.../1100-6442540/

With those numbers garret posted for Forza, it either came close or sold more than forza 5 and up combined.

you know those numbers posted for the forza titels are just the first few months and minimum sales numbers?
4 months for forza 5
5 months for forza 6
5 months for forza horizon 3


GT 6 sold 5,130,000 in 36 months
Forza on Xbox One and Windows 10 has over 14m unique player

Originally Posted by Chris1

Forza Horizon 3 is Sept-Jan, so 4 months

yeah thanks. changed it to 5 months (launch months is counting as 1)
Last edited by hanspampel; 03-21-2017 at 01:14 AM.
sems4arsenal
Member
(03-21-2017, 12:06 AM)
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Forza's games are much better than NFS's latest racers without a doubt.

As an ip it isn't in the same league as Mario Kart and/or Gran Turismo.
entremet
Member
(03-21-2017, 12:08 AM)
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You pendantic mofos.

The final paragraph answers your gripe with the title.

I thought the article had some great info on how MS has built up the Forza IP this generation.
endlessflood
Member
(03-21-2017, 12:22 AM)

Originally Posted by pswii60

Insane that we've had all that this gen (with likely another on the way this year) but still not a single GT title.

TBH I much prefer the Rockstar model of fewer, better releases, rather than the same game being churned out annually (AC or COD style). That's contingent upon the extra dev time resulting in a better game though.
Gestault
Junior Member
(03-21-2017, 12:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by endlessflood

TBH I much prefer the Rockstar model of fewer, better releases, rather than the same game being churned out annually (AC or COD style). That's contingent upon the extra dev time resulting in a better game though.

In this context, the choice would be between fewer games that are also lower quality, compared to more games with higher quality and also more content variety. The article touches on some IP management and studio priorities that have made that the case for a long time going back.
Kimawolf
Member
(03-21-2017, 12:24 AM)
Ridge Racer is the biggest. Namco just needs to get back on the ball is all.
Boombloxer
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(03-21-2017, 12:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Heshinsi

Because the title doesn't say (nor does the article) that they are specifically talking about this gen exclusively. So Mario Kart doesn't count because it's a kart racer (weird but ok), and Gran Turismo doesn't count because there's been no gen 8 release yet. So essentially this is like when American sports franchises call their trophy victors "world champions". So play by yourself and crown yourself king.

Kinda like fighting in a ring with no one there... Until Floyd shows up.
Dali
(03-21-2017, 12:28 AM)
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Originally Posted by Theorry

Are people gonna read the article also? There is some nice insight in that.

I came into this thread thinking if thats the title of the article then its basis may be bunk and thus not worth a read. Before i even bother is this a true statement?
Chris1
Member
(03-21-2017, 12:35 AM)

Originally Posted by hanspampel

you know those numbers posted for the forza titels are just the first few months and minimum sales numbers?
4 months for forza 5
5 months for forza 6
6 months for forza horizon 3


GT 6 sold 5,130,000 in 36 months
Forza on Xbox One and Windows 10 has over 14m unique player

Forza Horizon 3 is Sept-Jan, so 4 months
Springy
Member
(03-21-2017, 12:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Dali

I came into this thread thinking if thats the title of the article then its basis may be bunk and thus not worth a read. Before i even bother is this a true statement?

Nah, your time is way too valuable.
Wollan
The reason why I will never ever be banned.
(03-21-2017, 12:48 AM)
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Could see that GT6 would lose out on a lot of interest and sales way ahead being PS3 only past PS4 launch but it still ended up selling 5 million+ copies somehow.

Gran Turismo Sport however is going to do gangbusters with its Game-as-a-Service model and ripe PS4 audience.

I refuse any hype though prior to seeing any visual damage. Series has felt static for near fifteen years now. But I know I will plunk down those $60 out of curiosity...
N7 MRP Weasel
Junior Member
(03-21-2017, 12:50 AM)

Originally Posted by InquisitorAles

Because Forza is Microsoft game, that's why.

Hahahahahahahaha True
Gwyn
Member
(03-21-2017, 12:51 AM)
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FH3 blizzard mountain expansion alone is better than all other racing games out there who cares about sales

I need to try Dirt rally though heard good things
PHOENIXZERO
Member
(03-21-2017, 12:58 AM)
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What are the sales figures for the NFS reboot and Rivals?

IMO, GTA Online is still at least the second best open world arcade racer going on four years now and it's not even the primary focus of it.

Originally Posted by ElBoxyBrown

Not even. That game was surpassed by Hot Pursuit 2010. The best NFS game.

I can agree HP2010 is the best...

Originally Posted by ElBoxyBrown

That's not hard to be the biggest racing IP. NFS hasn't been great since Rivals.

But Rivals was not great, maybe the current gen version is a lot better but it was borderline unplayable on PS3, never mind the whole Online bullshit EA/Ghost has been pushing since that game and continued with their crappy reboot.
boneyjangles
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(03-21-2017, 01:05 AM)
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Ever since I watched Dan "the definitive racing game of this generation" greenwalt saying the words 'the definitive racing game of this generation" 17 times at the Forza 3 e3 conference, while giving press interviews about how they've blown past Gran Turismo, I've felt a bit soured on this franchise. Always come off as a bit insecure, and articles like this don't help.
Head.spawn
Junior Member
(03-21-2017, 01:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by hanspampel

you know those numbers posted for the forza titels are just the first few months and minimum sales numbers?
4 months for forza 5
5 months for forza 6
6 months for forza horizon 3


GT 6 sold 5,130,000 in 36 months
Forza on Xbox One and Windows 10 has over 14m unique player

Damn. I didn't know they were rocking like that.
Thebeardofknowledge
Banned
(03-21-2017, 01:06 AM)

Originally Posted by hanspampel

you know those numbers posted for the forza titels are just the first few months and minimum sales numbers?
4 months for forza 5
5 months for forza 6
6 months for forza horizon 3


GT 6 sold 5,130,000 in 36 months
Forza on Xbox One and Windows 10 has over 14m unique player

Who cares about unique players ?
Herodotus
Junior Member
(03-21-2017, 01:08 AM)
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This thread is embarrassing, does it have a dumb title? yes it does, do we need to spend 5 pages arguing about the stupid title? not really.

It's a great article about the growth of an amazing franchise but apparently we still need to debate about the title.
Jack The Nipper
Can outshoot and shutdown Steph Curry at the local YMCA.
(03-21-2017, 01:11 AM)
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It's a click bait article sort of in a time frame piece , it's like the history of a war before it's over. It's to draw interest which it's doing but will likely be a throw away article to some extent when the generation concludes. It will just be a time piece.
Jack The Nipper
Can outshoot and shutdown Steph Curry at the local YMCA.
(03-21-2017, 01:13 AM)
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Originally Posted by Herodotus

This thread is embarrassing, does it have a dumb title? yes it does, do we need to spend 5 pages arguing about the stupid title? not really.

It's a great article about the growth of an amazing franchise but apparently we still need to debate about the title.

Well, the sales of the game still exist without the article is that helps
Beerman462
Member
(03-21-2017, 02:31 AM)
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Jeez so many people hung up on the title. I haven't played Forza for awhile, but I'm going to get FH3 eventually.

At least we can all agree that Forza is bigger than Driveclub right???

Sorry
mcrommert
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(03-21-2017, 02:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by InquisitorAles

Because Forza is Microsoft game, that's why.

Of course
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
(03-21-2017, 02:36 AM)
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So much salt in here lol

As a racing fan and having played most of NFS, GT and Driveclub. Forza is just on another league now. GT5 was great but Forza 5 amd Forza 6 happened since then. Best racer out there indeed.
LukasTaves
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(03-21-2017, 02:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Heshinsi

Well I mean Mario Kart is bigger, but yeah. I don't know how this article makes sense. GT5 alone outsold every Forza game combined till Forza 5.

Is this true?

I know gt 5 sold about if not more than 15m units, but Forza series has no trouble hitting 2m in a few weeks usually, Ltd sales are bound to get much bigger than initial sales when prices go down even if there are always new games coming out, unlike gt which is a 2 entries per generation series.
endlessflood
Member
(03-21-2017, 04:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Gestault

In this context, the choice would be between fewer games that are also lower quality, compared to more games with higher quality and also more content variety. The article touches on some IP management and studio priorities that have made that the case for a long time going back.

Is that true though? For example Forza 5 has a metacritic score that's lower than the much maligned GT6 (which released around the same time, and is the lowest rated main line GT game), and we don't have a current gen GT game released yet, so we can't argue that current gen GT games are lower quality yet.

As I said, I don't mind the slower release pace at all, so long as that extra dev time produces higher quality games. GT Sport will tell us whether that's the case for the GT series or not.
SolarMystic
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(03-21-2017, 09:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by endlessflood

Is that true though? For example Forza 5 has a metacritic score that's lower than the much maligned GT6 (which released around the same time, and is the lowest rated main line GT game), and we don't have a current gen GT game released yet, so we can't argue that current gen GT games are lower quality yet.

As I said, I don't mind the slower release pace at all, so long as that extra dev time produces higher quality games. GT Sport will tell us whether that's the case for the GT series or not.

Longer dev time hasn't helped GT in over a decade. We will see if GTS bucks this trend or not.
SporeCrawler
Member
(03-21-2017, 09:32 AM)
they had to go with that title huh


also poor project gotham racing
Stop It
Perfectly able to grasp the inherent value of the fishing game.
(03-21-2017, 09:38 AM)
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That was a very long way to say "EA screwed up the NFS series while Microsoft invested in 2 studios to make differing but equally excellent strands of the Forza series".

Both the mainline Forza and Horizon games are excellent. The NFS series is in a mess and has been skipping years due to EA making bad entries then in blind panic trying to make up new ways to refresh the brand.

EA need to look at what Microsoft has done with Forza to see what they should be doing. They got so close with their experiment with Shift and Simply Mad Studios alongside their normal series but gave up and let SMS go, ending in the Project Cars IP coming together, oops.
terrible
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(03-21-2017, 10:11 AM)
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"I get asked a lot about competitors and the genre and what have you. [For us] there's hardly any inspiration coming from that space - it's all coming from our longer term vision."

That sounds like a pretty cocky attitude unless I'm reading that wrong. There's plenty they could learn from other games, at least with Forza Motorsport. A large amount actually.
DiscoJer
Junior Member
(03-21-2017, 10:24 AM)
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I don't think EA has ever had a coherent plan for Need for Speed. Simulator, arcade, street racing, even combat (sorta). With almost any given NFS, you never know what you are going to get. Even from Underground 1 to 2 you went from having ludicrous arcade jumps (almost like Midnight Run) to being vaguely realistic.

OTOH, MS always pushed Forza as a Gran Turismo rival, then once having established credibility there, leveraged that brand into other types of racing games, but still keeping the branding of the main series distinct.
Psycho_Mantis
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(03-21-2017, 10:31 AM)
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Best selling racing franchises:

NFS - 150 million
MK - 111 million
GT - 77 million
Forza - 20-22 million (?)

Recent releases:
GT5 - 11 million
MK8 - 8.5 million
GT6 - 5.5 million
NFS (?)
Forza Horizon 3 - 2.5 million

I want to see the receipts on NFS not selling more than Forza entries because ifaik they debuted much higher.

Forza series was never a great seller. Iirc they usually debuted at 150-200k in NPD, but FH3 bucked the train and sold very much more.

The article almost reads like a shallow PR statement at many times. They try and portray GT and NFS as some declining franchises (ignoring that their brand and sales, at least for the former, are still leagues ahead) while Forza is showing great growth.

In reality Forza 3/4 are likely higher than Forza 5 and 6. In fact iirc Forza 5 sold more than Forza 6.

The only claim to fame is when the competition have not released a game.
CEJames
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(03-21-2017, 10:32 AM)
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Gran Turismo & Mario Kart. "Nuff said.
hanspampel
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(03-21-2017, 01:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Psycho_Mantis

Best selling racing franchises:

NFS - 150 million
MK - 111 million
GT - 77 million
Forza - 20-22 million (?)

Recent releases:
GT5 - 11 million
MK8 - 8.5 million
GT6 - 5.5 million
NFS (?)
Forza Horizon 3 - 2.5 million

I want to see the receipts on NFS not selling more than Forza entries because ifaik they debuted much higher.

Forza series was never a great seller. Iirc they usually debuted at 150-200k in NPD, but FH3 bucked the train and sold very much more.

The article almost reads like a shallow PR statement at many times. They try and portray GT and NFS as some declining franchises (ignoring that their brand and sales, at least for the former, are still leagues ahead) while Forza is showing great growth.

In reality Forza 3/4 are likely higher than Forza 5 and 6. In fact iirc Forza 5 sold more than Forza 6.

The only claim to fame is when the competition have not released a game.


This news caps an amazing year. As of December, more than 14 million unique players were involved in the Forza community on Xbox One and Windows 10, the award-winning Forza Horizon 3 sold through 2.5 million units, and Forza continued its run as the best-selling racing franchise of this console generation.*

*Source: The NPD Group/Retail Tracking Service (U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand) – November 2012-January 2017

Read more at http://news.xbox.com/2017/02/13/forz...GSMv6zepkWZ.99

The receipts are out there. Just have a look at the NPD reports from the last 4 Years

All Forza games combined sold more than all Gran Turismo, Need for Speed or Mario Kart Games combined between November 2012 and January 2017 in NA and AU / NZ at retail
(this does not even include digital and PC sales)
Last edited by hanspampel; 03-21-2017 at 01:37 PM.
FIREKNIGHT2029
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(03-21-2017, 01:43 PM)
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Mario Kart and GT are way bigger. What a joke article lol.
Theorry
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(03-21-2017, 01:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by CEJames

Gran Turismo & Mario Kart. "Nuff said.

Originally Posted by FIREKNIGHT2029

Mario Kart and GT are way bigger. What a joke article lol.

Page 5 and still this stuff. And if you say "joke article" you clearly only read the title.
Jacobson
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(03-21-2017, 02:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jaded Alyx

;)

Checkmate, atheists.

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