• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

Garrett Hawke
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:09 PM)
Garrett Hawke's Avatar

Originally Posted by Flarin

That comparison video is absolutely nuts. Did they fire people that did the better animations and just rush to make it passable in the last year? Man what a train wreck.

it's more likely that was some kind of showreel or demo so it probably had animations that were specifically for those rigs, which might have changed for the final build.

that ryder looks a lot better, though.
Zasa
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:09 PM)
Zasa's Avatar

Originally Posted by Mariner

Dudebro game has developer with bro culture? Not really that surprising really

Oh god, ME is a 'dudebro' game now? lol, this place sometimes
jdstorm
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:09 PM)

Originally Posted by tuxfool

Honestly, I'd take glassdoor with a grain of sand, it could be true, false or anywhere in between. Problem there is that there are other reviews from the same studio (in Montreal) which are glowing.

The game obviously had problems, but attributing it all to this one account is problematic.

I read through 4 reviews including this one and at least one confirmed this review, while the others read like they were written by people inside a clique. Not a good look.
RecRoulette
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:09 PM)
RecRoulette's Avatar
Man, I wish Keighley was still doing Final Hours. This would be an interesting one.
Pennywise
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:09 PM)
Pennywise's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lime

OP you forgot to mention the exploitative work practices, renaming of crunch, and the lack of HR doing anything (if this Glass Ceiling thing is true)

That's a different discussion though.
Plus the various rather positive reviews, I wouldn't exactly break it down to some things on the surface. Nobody of us was part of the development or can actually tell us about the practices there.

When I found that piece of information, I posted it for one reason only.
It shows that alot of important figures have left the development, the reasons aren't exactly our buisness, but it paints a pretty good picture and COULD be part of the puzzle why the title didn't live up to the expecations of the fanbase.

Thanks OP, for taking what I found btw :P
iShouldGoPro
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:09 PM)
iShouldGoPro's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kenzodielocke

Prioritising banging over good writing.

Originally Posted by OrbitalBeard

Like cliques in high school. A closed circle of associates who look after their own at the expense of others.

Originally Posted by Tecnniqe

Gonna assume it's "you got my back I got yours"

Originally Posted by Titanoboa

"Boys club" sort of stuff

Originally Posted by B.O.O.M

Probably they have prank wars in the workplace where everyone continuously screams 'just a prank bro' nonstop

Originally Posted by Bizmarkie76

Normal male behavior

Originally Posted by Hektor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMCuJTqkPJI

Originally Posted by GrizzNKev

In my experience, an office with bro culture means a lot of focus on bonding over drinking and a tendency to judge female employees by their appearance over other things.

thanks!

i didn't have a clue that video game dev offices would be like that.
always pictured a straight laced setting, i guess
singhr1
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:09 PM)
singhr1's Avatar

Originally Posted by MasterMenace

In addition, take a look at the below video comparing the leaked 2016 MEA footage to the current footage.

https://my.mixtape.moe/yugchn.mp4

Notice how the 2016 leaked version has dramatically better animations? Even the eyes are significantly more better and nuanced. What happened?!?!?!?!?!

Are you talking about the facial animation because everything else is exactly the same (animation wise)?
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:10 PM)
Lunafreya Nox Fleuret's Avatar

Originally Posted by AlexFlame116

Okay yeah that is a freaking travesty. How it downgraded so much I'll never understand completely.


It's funny but you're actually probably right! Bioware kept gushing about the romance scenes.

Yeah, when they said they made the jump to full on nudity in tweets I just rolled my eyes.
Ban Puncher
The Console Industry:
Pop Pop Pop Pop
(03-20-2017, 11:10 PM)
Ban Puncher's Avatar
Game isn't even out and people are already pointing fingers.
sangreal
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:10 PM)
sangreal's Avatar
pretty typical glassdoor review

I stopped looking at them when I was looking for a new job, because they almost all paint depressing pictures of the company.

Then when I got my current job they encouraged everyone to go and post good things on glassdoor
Tempy
don't ask me for codes
(03-20-2017, 11:10 PM)
Tempy's Avatar
The hell at that video. Old build seems to have much better lighting, shaders, and actual facial animations.
Gattsu25
Formerly Wakune
(03-20-2017, 11:11 PM)
Gattsu25's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lunafreya Nox Fleuret

I don't think I've ever seen that site before.... hmmm

Never heard of glassdoor?

It's basically Yelp for employees reviewing their employers.
AlexFlame116
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:11 PM)
AlexFlame116's Avatar

Originally Posted by El_Chino

I'll ask again, is that not low settings or something?

I don't know. You tell me. I don't have a computer strong enough for this game.
FHIZ
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:11 PM)
FHIZ's Avatar

Originally Posted by MasterMenace

https://my.mixtape.moe/yugchn.mp4

Straight up looks like they shipped the wrong build of the game.
Flarin
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:11 PM)
Flarin's Avatar

Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

it's more likely that was some kind of showreel or demo so it probably had animations that were specifically for those rigs, which might have changed for the final build.

that ryder looks a lot better, though.

I don't think the 2016 version is out of the question compared to other modern games, especially considering how bad the final build version looks.
caesar
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:11 PM)
caesar's Avatar
Bro culture.

Shows how little the people blaming it on SJWs actually know.
sibarraz
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:12 PM)
sibarraz's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lime

OP you forgot to mention the exploitative work practices, renaming of crunch, and the lack of HR doing anything (if this Glass Ceiling thing is true)

I have seen this term thrown a lot lately, but what is crunch?
Tenacious-D
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:12 PM)
Tenacious-D's Avatar

Originally Posted by Hektor

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMCuJTqkPJI

Probably just a target render of how the scene was supposed to look like rather than actual gameplay

Code:

Target render... from April 2016?

That doesn't sound right. The game should have been completely playable without blockers by that point.

---

There's another review from 2015:

-High level of politics and nepotism, especially among the senior leadership
-Crunch lasts between 6 months to over a year
-Difficult to advance unless you are good friends with senior leads
Dictator93
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:12 PM)
Dictator93's Avatar
ctrl + f "grain of salt"

Do not forget GAF, this is glassdoor. But yes, this could explain some of the oddness of ME:A.

edit: FOOT IN MOUTH

Originally Posted by tuxfool

Honestly, I'd take glassdoor with a grain of sand, it could be true, false or anywhere in between. Problem there is that there are other reviews from the same studio (in Montreal) which are glowing.

The game obviously had problems, but attributing it all to this one account is problematic.

Damn you and your sand, tuxfool!
El_Chino
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:13 PM)
El_Chino's Avatar

Originally Posted by AlexFlame116

I don't know. You tell me. I don't have a computer strong enough for this game.

I do but I already bought it for the Pro so I was asking in general if anyone knew.
AlexFlame116
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:13 PM)
AlexFlame116's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lunafreya Nox Fleuret

Yeah, when they said they made the jump to full on nudity in tweets I just rolled my eyes.

Yeah I'm kind of on the same boat haha! I was okay with the romance scenes (well sometimes...) in the previous games but I'm not excited about full on nudity.

This is just my opinion though!
michaelius
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:13 PM)
michaelius's Avatar
Blaming this on internal conflict feels like blame shifting. Nothing about quality of MEA is surprising after DA2 and DA:I combined with new studio to farm well know IP approach of EA.
Jonneh3003
Junior Member
(03-20-2017, 11:13 PM)
Jonneh3003's Avatar

Originally Posted by MasterMenace


https://my.mixtape.moe/yugchn.mp4

Notice how the 2016 leaked version has dramatically better animations? Even the eyes are significantly more better and nuanced. What happened?!?!?!?!?!

Someone at Bioware looked at what they had and said "yeah I think this needs to look more stiff and lifeless." I don't get it.
Crossing Eden
Banned
(03-20-2017, 11:13 PM)

Originally Posted by singhr1

Are you talking about the facial animation because everything else is exactly the same (animation wise)?

It's literally all the same exact animation data. It seems like they changed the way faces work. And unfortunately never got around to dealing with the problems that caused.
Last edited by Crossing Eden; 03-20-2017 at 11:16 PM.
Tecnniqe
Would die a thousand deaths just for one gun
(03-20-2017, 11:13 PM)
Tecnniqe's Avatar

Originally Posted by Dictator93

ctrl + f "grain of salt"

Do not forget GAF, this is glassdoor. But yes, this could explain some of the oddness of ME:A.

Sure but already in 2015 this was posted to a lesser degreee soooo
Garrett Hawke
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:14 PM)
Garrett Hawke's Avatar

Originally Posted by Flarin

I don't think the 2016 version is out of the question compared to other modern games, especially considering how bad the final build version looks.

oh no, i quite agree - but i was offering an explanation as to why it would look different now when they clearly had already done the work. if they changed rigs they probably had to re-do the facial animations.
LelouchZero
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:14 PM)
LelouchZero's Avatar
This is really sad to hear about if it's true.
FelipeMGM
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:14 PM)
FelipeMGM's Avatar

Originally Posted by MasterMenace

In addition, take a look at the below video comparing the leaked 2016 MEA footage to the current footage.

https://my.mixtape.moe/yugchn.mp4

Notice how the 2016 leaked version has dramatically better animations? Even the eyes are significantly more better and nuanced. What happened?!?!?!?!?!

this is insane.

Like, this is a showcase to demonstrate internally progress in the game I believe

yet none of that quality is really in the retail version
Tenacious-D
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:14 PM)
Tenacious-D's Avatar

Originally Posted by sibarraz

I have seen this term thrown a lot lately, but what is crunch?

Crunch is overtime. Serious overtime. Like 90 hour work weeks. Sometimes unpaid, sometimes paid, but the toll is takes on developers is never worth it.

EA has a history with it.
tuxfool
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:14 PM)

Originally Posted by jdstorm

I read through 4 reviews including this one and at least one confirmed this review, while the others read like they were written by people inside a clique. Not a good look.

The issue here is that I've read this kind of thing all over the place in glassdoor, and accounts written on there often have a highly subjective slant. It certainly isn't to discount what is being said, but neither the negative nor the positive reviews give a wholly accurate picture of what is going on in the studio.
AlexFlame116
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:14 PM)
AlexFlame116's Avatar

Originally Posted by El_Chino

I do but I already bought it for the Pro so I was asking in general if anyone knew.

Yeah same here! I know that console graphics are usually lower than max PC graphics settings so you may have a point.
PshycoNinja
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:15 PM)
PshycoNinja's Avatar

Originally Posted by MasterMenace

In conclusion, it seems MEA had an insanely troubled development due to issues between teams, politics, nepotism, leadership conflicts, and lack of care for the actual developers themselves who had no say.

Unfortunately, the two bolded are huge issues that permeate much of the industry. If a less than stellar co-worker is the best friend or some family memeber of your manager, keep your options open. No matter the difference in work ethic or results, you will get the boot before the friend or family member.
Drencrom
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:15 PM)
Drencrom's Avatar
Jesus christ, really saddening to hear this.
MasterMenace
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:15 PM)
MasterMenace's Avatar

Originally Posted by singhr1

Are you talking about the facial animation because everything else is exactly the same (animation wise)?

Oops, I don't know what I was writing. I re-editing my post. You're right, I meant the facial animation is much better.

Especially when he starts coughing.
Pennywise
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:15 PM)
Pennywise's Avatar

Originally Posted by sibarraz

I have seen this term thrown a lot lately, but what is crunch?

http://kotaku.com/crunch-time-why-ga...urs-1704744577
Crossing Eden
Banned
(03-20-2017, 11:15 PM)

Originally Posted by Tenacious-D

Crunch is overtime. Serious overtime. Like 90 hour work weeks. Sometimes unpaid, sometimes paid, but the toll is takes on developers is never worth it.

EA has a history with it.

The triple A industry in general has a history with it, it's something that gamers rarely acknowledge as something that devs deal with.
BiggNife
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:15 PM)
BiggNife's Avatar
I would never 100% trust negative Glassdoor reviews. A lot of the time they come from bitter employees who were fired or laid off (rightfully or wrongfully, I have no way of knowing) and embellish or exaggerate things because they're coming from a place of frustration. Not saying there isn't truth to the review, but don't take it as gospel.
Kill3r7
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:16 PM)
Kill3r7's Avatar
Come on now, can we all stop playing detective and let game journalists get to the bottom of it or at least someone better equipped than the average joe to get answers. An entire thread based on a Glassdoor ratings.
AlStrong
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:16 PM)
AlStrong's Avatar

It is clear that Edmonton has the bigger part of the stick when it comes to purge Leads and Producers who are not aligned with their leadership style."

What does this mean exactly? BW Edmonton is firing the Montreal folks? BW Edmonton prevents firing people in BW Edmonton?

???
Soul of the Beast
Banned
(03-20-2017, 11:16 PM)

Originally Posted by MasterMenace

  • "Putting people on performance improvement program (PIP Program) is the new tactics to get rid of people. Once again more than 10 people in Montreal got slammed with this bureaucratic uppercut to let go people that are not bending to Edmonton leadership styles in the last revision cycle. This approach is used by the Montreal Leadership to purge the mess from the lack of vision cause by upper management in the last 4 years (throwing people under the bus to protect bad core management)"
  • "Renaming crunch to Finaling mode. Which means company pays for your lunch but you have only 30 minutes to eat and then getting back on the keyboard. Was lasting for over 2 months and was a real catastrophy."
  • "Retaliation and harassment is sadly a reality. If you talk and ask questions you will be tag as a trouble maker and end up in a bad position."

That is extremely disgusting, It can't be real.
Last edited by Soul of the Beast; 03-20-2017 at 11:19 PM.
benicillin
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:17 PM)
benicillin's Avatar
While it could explain some things, I've known people who left misleading Glassdoor reviews when I've known why they got fired. The fact that we have a thread about this at all kinda shows that people are looking for anything to criticize.
realcZk
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:17 PM)
realcZk's Avatar
Say this was true, regarding the animation quality reduction -- why?

I'm trying to understand this from a development perspective. Maybe they had to animate by hand for each scene and it was too much work so it was scraped for a less expressive (the current) animation system that just animates based off dialogue? That's the only excuse I can think of for it. (I know little about game development, just trying to make a logical justification for the changes).
Last edited by realcZk; 03-20-2017 at 11:20 PM.
Lime
Banned
(03-20-2017, 11:17 PM)
Lime's Avatar

Originally Posted by sibarraz

I have seen this term thrown a lot lately, but what is crunch?

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2013/11/video-game-industry/
sangreal
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:18 PM)
sangreal's Avatar

Originally Posted by Soul of the Beast

That is extremely disgusting, I can't believe this is real...It can't be.

PIPs and 30 minute lunch are poor but hardly abnormal practrices
AlexFlame116
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:18 PM)
AlexFlame116's Avatar

Originally Posted by PshycoNinja

Unfortunately, the two bolded are huge issues that permeate much of the industry. If a less than stellar co-worker is the best friend or some family memeber of your manager, keep your options open. No matter the difference in work ethic or results, you will get the boot before the friend or family member.

Did you ever have experiences with that? You worked in the game industry before right? Or is that asking for personal info? I'm sorry if it is!

Originally Posted by Crossing Eden

The triple A industry in general has a history with it, it's something that gamers rarely acknowledge as something that devs deal with.

I'll be honest, I didn't know anything about crunch time until I started visiting this site. Sounds absolutely terrible.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:18 PM)
SpacePirate Ridley's Avatar

"Bioware Edmonton and Montreal symbiosis is broken. Lots of conflicts and bro culture."

As soon as I read that tweet of them saying 3 teams worked on this "fantastic adventure" I knew the game was being made by 2 and were not going along well and a third had to enter the picture to try to salvage stuff as soon as EA started to force a release soon or we cut it here.

EA not showing absolutely nothing on various E3's was really telling.

Super sad about this, ive been in much smaller teams with conflicts of interests and they can make what it looks like what it could be a great game into a fucking mess.
And really sad about the devs working there that wanted to release a quality product but management fucked up with them.

Originally Posted by michaelius

Blaming this on internal conflict feels like blame shifting. Nothing about quality of MEA is surprising after DA2 and DA:I combined with new studio to farm well know IP approach of EA.

Dragon Age Inquisition can be a game you dont like, heck i dont like it either, but its doesnt fall in the more basic aspects of what makes a game professionally well made, something Andormeda clearly lacks. This is more than directors not being up to snuff and making just a normal game isntead of a masterpiece. This is clearly troubled development.
Last edited by SpacePirate Ridley; 03-20-2017 at 11:22 PM.
Van Bur3n
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:19 PM)
Van Bur3n's Avatar

Originally Posted by B.O.O.M

Probably they have prank wars in the workplace where everyone continuously screams 'just a prank bro' nonstop

Andromeda was just a prank against Edmonton.
Vinc
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:19 PM)
Vinc's Avatar
Looks like engine issues. Game maybe couldn't run with all these bells and whistles, and they had to cut back because they ran out of time and budget to redo everything. The game really looks like it has a bunch of effects turned off. Female Ryder's face in some of the gifs going around looks like it has subsurface scattering turned off when it's meant to be on. I could very much be wrong about all of this as I'm no tech expert, but that's what this looks like to me.
Last edited by Vinc; 03-20-2017 at 11:21 PM.
Tecnniqe
Would die a thousand deaths just for one gun
(03-20-2017, 11:19 PM)
Tecnniqe's Avatar

Originally Posted by sibarraz

I have seen this term thrown a lot lately, but what is crunch?

Imagine your holding a bag of chrisps/chips. Take out a piece of the bag, that's the dev.
Your mouth is the studio.
Now eat it.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
(03-20-2017, 11:19 PM)
Gamer @ Heart's Avatar
Ehhhh. Glass door is an anonymous site.

While this could be true, threads like these based on one post and ignoring the other positive reviews of the place are disingenuous.

We need press sneak fuck on the case to actually confirm sources.

Thread Tools