When Ive been and lived there in the last 20 years, I e.g. look at the infrastructure and think to myself "wow, this society simply cannot be fixed, the whole society needs to be fundamentally changed" It's so hyper consumerist and wasteful and it hasn't changed a bit since the 90s. It seems like the only way the US will change their ways, at least when it comes to consumption and waste of resources, is when the Earth no longer can take being exploited to that extent, because there is zero political and collective will in changing their habits. In fact, people get super resistant when being told that maybe it's not a good idea to be so wasteful and over-consuming.
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Those not living in the USA, how do you feel about what's going on there?
- Thread starter brawly
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When Ive been and lived there in the last 20 years, I e.g. look at the infrastructure and think to myself "wow, this society simply cannot be fixed, the whole society needs to be fundamentally changed" It's so hyper consumerist and wasteful and it hasn't changed a bit since the 90s. It seems like the only way the US will change their ways, at least when it comes to consumption and waste of resources, is when the Earth no longer can take being exploited to that extent, because there is zero political and collective will in changing their habits. In fact, people get super resistant when being told that maybe it's not a good idea to be so wasteful and over-consuming.
That's how moronic our president is *shrug*
TBiddy
Member
This. It's sorta like driving past a car accident. You know it's a tragedy, but you can't stop looking.
I can't claim to know much about American culture, but I think it's insane how divided the country is. Viewed from the outside and reading various messageboards from both sides of the political spectrum, it appears that half the country is apparantly nazis, that wishes to eradicate every single minority in the US and the other half are apparantly "cucks" that have thrown every bit of sense overboard, in trying to be as politically correct as possible. The truth, of course, is much more nuanced.. but it's really crazy just how heated the debate is.
If things continue like this, I wouldn't be surprised to see more acts of terrorism like in Charlotteville, more cops killing blacks, more fights in the streets or even a full-blown uprising against the political system.
It almost reminds me of A Handmaids Tale..
http://bigthink.com/daylight-atheism/the-millennials-americas-secular-future
The US is essentially waiting for the baby boomers to die off before you'll see big, positive social change. The "old America" if you will. That group got one last sucker punch in with Trump (aided by the overall terrible performance of Democrats), but this is not a permanent thing or a sign that the U.S. is lost.
If anything, it's going to remind people of how the institutions of this country work, how important they are, and how to change them for the better.
Aside from the shootings and people getting run over and the KKK and all that shit, which is standard american stuff, I feel sad by the fact someone like Trump managed to be President of the United States.
Every time I see him on TV I feel sad. Plenty has been said about him so no need for me to say it again, but let's just say I love to watch Stephen Colbert short summary's about what Trump has been up-to. keeps me up-to-date about that idiot with a flair of humor.
I defo ain't visiting the states anytime soon though.
Every time I see him on TV I feel sad. Plenty has been said about him so no need for me to say it again, but let's just say I love to watch Stephen Colbert short summary's about what Trump has been up-to. keeps me up-to-date about that idiot with a flair of humor.
I defo ain't visiting the states anytime soon though.
Don't care that much, just don't understand why Americans worship losers. Not just random losers but the ones they've defeated: the Confederacy and the Nazi Germany. And up until recently I thought those monuments were something that were erected around the time of the Confederate, not something that was put up as recently as just few years ago. Geesh..
It's a shame. I really like the US. The US president, no matter the party, use to be good at creating certainty/stability in the world. They now have a president who seems hellbent on creating instability.
But i'm hopeful that the democrats and republicans will isolate the damaged done and Trump will beaten in 2020 by a democrat or republican.
But i'm hopeful that the democrats and republicans will isolate the damaged done and Trump will beaten in 2020 by a democrat or republican.
IdreamofHIME
Member
The statues are shit and should absolutely be torn down, but this revelation people are having about them not being erected during the life of these scumbags is very weird.
What other famous statues and monuments are erected during any person's lifetime? They always go up after. That's kinda the point in them.
Between cops shooting first, asking after
and an unbelievable wave of excesses on every level of daily life
I feel the US are one of the most unstable and possibly unsafe place of the "western society"
Here in Europe we have our problems too, but not this level of social anxiety,
According to media, every single day something awful happens on that side of the world.
And THAT Sir you call president makes the likes of Berlusconi look like great politicians and philanthropists by comparison
and an unbelievable wave of excesses on every level of daily life
I feel the US are one of the most unstable and possibly unsafe place of the "western society"
Here in Europe we have our problems too, but not this level of social anxiety,
According to media, every single day something awful happens on that side of the world.
And THAT Sir you call president makes the likes of Berlusconi look like great politicians and philanthropists by comparison
We are actually thankful to the American people for taking the title of "worst leader elected in a first world democracy" from us
To be serious, though, I just hope you guys sort this mess out before shit hits the fan
obviously /s, we'll probably be back to be an european laughing stock soon enough
To be serious, though, I just hope you guys sort this mess out before shit hits the fan
lucebuce12
Member
I know that America is one of the most diverse nations on the earth. I know that I have relatives who live there and they say that they've never encountered racism where they live.
I know that the Fighting Game Community in the US is an inclusive place where things like nationalities and the colour of your skin doesn't matter.
It is painful seeing the ugly side of America gain so much prominence but I still know that they're in the minority, and that this ugly side can be found in a lot of other countries.
I still wish to one day go to America for EVO but it's more the policies the US government has started taking that make me dislike America more than anything.
I know that the Fighting Game Community in the US is an inclusive place where things like nationalities and the colour of your skin doesn't matter.
It is painful seeing the ugly side of America gain so much prominence but I still know that they're in the minority, and that this ugly side can be found in a lot of other countries.
I still wish to one day go to America for EVO but it's more the policies the US government has started taking that make me dislike America more than anything.
nelsonroyale
Member
Not good. This is the breakdown of the American 'Dream'
John Caboose
Member
I feel... like America is on a fast track to losing a lot of global influence/power. Bush was a joke. Obama was pretty great. Trump is abhorrent.
Being Anti-science is normalized
No public healthcare
Everything about the current president which is too much to list
Guns guns guns
The highest homicide rate in the developed world
Muh free unregulated, exploitative markets
Police brutality
Flags flags flags
No hate speech laws
Somehow being politician and leader of the Ku Klux Klan is acceptable
An awful junk food culture
USA USA USA
No public healthcare
Everything about the current president which is too much to list
Guns guns guns
The highest homicide rate in the developed world
Muh free unregulated, exploitative markets
Police brutality
Flags flags flags
No hate speech laws
Somehow being politician and leader of the Ku Klux Klan is acceptable
An awful junk food culture
USA USA USA
butzopower
proud of his butz
I'm an American living in the U.K. I haven't been back since Trump was elected. Honestly, things like what's gone on in Charlottesville probably would have seemed just as far away and in another country as when I lived in California or Illinois. The US is so big that when shit happens on the East Coast when you are on the West Coast, it feels a world away, because geographically, it practically is.
Speaking of, it's weird to me that Trump/Republicans/Fox News have actually managed to convince so many Americans that "the world" thought Obama was bad. He was pretty much universally appreciated in all of the western world as a strong and charismatic world leader. I'd say you can probably expand that to most of the world, with the exception of the middle east, perhaps.
Yet somehow I keep hearing the rhetoric that the world hated Obama from the American right, it's kind of weird, especially since you can easily verify these things:
JosephManderley
Member
I visited the USA a few years ago and had a great trip. I would like to go again and visit a different city, but I will hold off until Trump is gone.
I still don't know what the right wing fanbase stance is on the opinion of the rest of the world. Half the time I hear they care and Obama was this huge disaster for our rep; the other half the time it seems like they explicitly like that Trump is disliked by the rest of the world as they consider the rest of world wimps or something. Which is it, Team Trump?
I lived through Berlusconi putting a showgirl in the-equivalent-of-Congress, idolizing Putin and pretending a prostitute of his was Mubarak's niece.
It's not particularly egregious. It's just embarassingly incompetent.
It's not particularly egregious. It's just embarassingly incompetent.
The narrative that republicans and sympathetic media have created (Fox News, Drudge, Breitbart, Info Wars etc) is just so extreme - it just doesn't exist to the same degree here in the UK. We have similar racist dog-whistling going on, but we're still very much in the pre-Trumpian mold in the sense that actually saying some of the stuff that Trump is saying and condoning would see your career destroyed. Our media regulation is still quite robust, and we're not hamstrung by disingenuous First Amendment arguments when it comes to hate speech, so it's not as easy for crazy round the clock propaganda and conspiracy theory pedaling to take place on our airwaves.
What's scary though is that you can imagine some Tories wanting to weaken media regulation here. You can imagine them looking at the US media situation with a sense of envy. You can see the parallels in the public mood with regard to immigration and how people have been led to feel about the European Union.
I watched his car crash press conference the other day from beginning to end. It was horrible. And worrying on a number of levels. If he were sticking to the business stuff - cutting regulation, starting bold infrastructure projects, concentrating on getting business back to domestic shores -- that would probably be quite laudable. It's all the other baggage. The closeness to people like Bannon, the fact he's sought to assuage the guilt and association of people who've had no problem marching alongside actual Nazis in 2017, the fact he's on record as saying things like "All men are created equal? Well it's not true" - even though the direct OPPOSITE of that viewpoint is a founding argument of the American Declaration of Independence. "We believe these truths to be self-evident". He's a traitor to those ideals. He believes in superior genes, in a winning gene, and from his association with certain groups, he might believe in a whole lot more than that.
http://twitter.com/Khanoisseur/status/788796890414325760
So how I feel is this:
He's bad for the US, he's bad for rational conservatism, he's bad for the world.
The scariest thing about him is what he says to the rest of the World about the American electorate. They've let their standards for this high office slip so far - nobody would have gotten away with this 10 or 15 years ago. You have to wonder how far off some people are from being willing to elect even WORSE than Trump.
He's also a proven liar. Aside from past sexism and other controversial comments, he's said things publicly that have been verifiably untrue. Deliberately. And his followers hand wave it away, and keep going back to the previous administration. Well the previous administration is gone. This is happening now. And what's happening now is going to have consequences.
What's scary though is that you can imagine some Tories wanting to weaken media regulation here. You can imagine them looking at the US media situation with a sense of envy. You can see the parallels in the public mood with regard to immigration and how people have been led to feel about the European Union.
I watched his car crash press conference the other day from beginning to end. It was horrible. And worrying on a number of levels. If he were sticking to the business stuff - cutting regulation, starting bold infrastructure projects, concentrating on getting business back to domestic shores -- that would probably be quite laudable. It's all the other baggage. The closeness to people like Bannon, the fact he's sought to assuage the guilt and association of people who've had no problem marching alongside actual Nazis in 2017, the fact he's on record as saying things like "All men are created equal? Well it's not true" - even though the direct OPPOSITE of that viewpoint is a founding argument of the American Declaration of Independence. "We believe these truths to be self-evident". He's a traitor to those ideals. He believes in superior genes, in a winning gene, and from his association with certain groups, he might believe in a whole lot more than that.
http://twitter.com/Khanoisseur/status/788796890414325760
So how I feel is this:
He's bad for the US, he's bad for rational conservatism, he's bad for the world.
The scariest thing about him is what he says to the rest of the World about the American electorate. They've let their standards for this high office slip so far - nobody would have gotten away with this 10 or 15 years ago. You have to wonder how far off some people are from being willing to elect even WORSE than Trump.
He's also a proven liar. Aside from past sexism and other controversial comments, he's said things publicly that have been verifiably untrue. Deliberately. And his followers hand wave it away, and keep going back to the previous administration. Well the previous administration is gone. This is happening now. And what's happening now is going to have consequences.
Camp Freddie
Member
I feel like America used to be the 'father-figure' or partiarch of modern western civilisation.
In the UK, we'd disagree with a lot of American policy and complain about how domineering it was. But fundamentally, we'd know that we owed America a lot, and that we were all on the same team.
These days, America is has changed from "cool dad" Obama to the racist old grandpa, nostalgic for a golden age that was actually a lot shittier that the present.
As the world's racist old grandpa, America is just going to be ignored as much as possible since it's just too embarrassing to talk about. He'll be gone soon, so it's not worth getting into pointless arguments.
I'm glad that the rest of the world is mostly shunning and ignoring Trump. I'm also relieved to see that a lot of 'mainstream' America is also rejecting him, like those business leaders recently.
Tourist areas are pretty multicultural and international. Even though Florida itself isn't exactly the most progressive area of the country, Orlando and the tourist areas SHOULD be fine. (Of course, things like the nightclub attack still happen, so who knows) You're just as likely to run into a Brit or Japanese citizen as an actual American there.
Yup.
I'll say the US is indeed a global laughing stock but it's also frightening with how the alt-right has seized on running the country.
I mean a fair few countries do look to the US for moral fibre and leadership but with Orange buffoon in charge everyone has to find their own way now.
Don't live there but all the shit since January has elevated my stress levels a tad i.e. Nazi's being good guys (wtf), media defaming, Russia probe, scaling back science/climate chane etc.
DarthMasta
Member
Not good, the USA for all it's faults has always felt to me as a country to mostly emulate. Not perfect, but with it's "heart" in the right place.
Not so much now. Sure, it still has the dichotomy of having some of the very best and the very worst people, but my idea that the very best outnumbered the very worst has been shaken.
Not so much now. Sure, it still has the dichotomy of having some of the very best and the very worst people, but my idea that the very best outnumbered the very worst has been shaken.
My girlfriend and I visited New York earlier in the year and were taken back by how different the NY mood was to the kind of deferential tone that was being shown on some TV channels. It's his home city and they seem to hate him. Which makes 'em cool by me! And makes sense given how multicultural and awesome the place is.
capitalCORN
Member
Edit: Wrong thread, sorry.
Yeah, it feels like I imagine it must have been feeled when the Sowjet Union collapsed.
Wont turn out in the same, most likely because the US is way smaller and should have more money, but its really feeling like a Empire collapsing.
Unknown One
Member
The party in charge is equally as corrupt as Trump and his cronies.
John Caboose
Member
Speaking of, it's weird to me that Trump/Republicans/Fox News have actually managed to convince so many Americans that "the world" thought Obama was bad. He was pretty much universally appreciated in all of the western world as a strong and charismatic world leader. I'd say you can probably expand that to most of the world, with the exception of the middle east, perhaps.
Yet somehow I keep hearing the rhetoric that the world hated Obama from the American right, it's kind of weird, especially since you can easily verify these things:
Unaware but unsurprised about the "Obama is hated abroad" thing. Just another post-truth 'fact' from the usual suspects.
Damn that's spot on.
chromatic9
Member
Some things don't make headlines like American news does. Germany has a murderous neo Nazi cell that you've probably never heard about, if we had the same report coming from the US we'd be saying "Christ what the fuck is going on in America". Plenty of neo Nazi and anti immigration rallies in Germany whether they unveil the flag or not. Thousands of attacks on migrants happen in Germany every year and also setting fire to accommodation. You see Germans on holiday in Spain with Nazi tshirts, tattoos and flags.
Of course largely US and Germany are nice places
Of course largely US and Germany are nice places
Sodding_Gamer
Member
The US was certainly on my list to visit soon but it's dropped right down to the bottom of my priorities since Trump.
It's absolutely horrific what is happening over there but I can't even say anything as the UK is equally embarrassing at this point. It's all just very disheartening.
In an era of inclusion, love, embracing equality of all shapes, to see such hatred in a country that used to be looked up on is scary to see. I feel it hasn't even reached the tipping point yet either. And ya'll have guns, so it's going to be an interesting decade I think.
It's absolutely horrific what is happening over there but I can't even say anything as the UK is equally embarrassing at this point. It's all just very disheartening.
In an era of inclusion, love, embracing equality of all shapes, to see such hatred in a country that used to be looked up on is scary to see. I feel it hasn't even reached the tipping point yet either. And ya'll have guns, so it's going to be an interesting decade I think.
Tony Redgrave
Member
Well, I'll only say that a Bachelor's in English where I studied quite a bit story about the country and all the news I read here everyday have surely thrown a bucket of cold water all over my former Hollywood fueled, adolescent dreams of the US as a this marvelous place where eveyone could thrive trough the American Dream™.
Reality is much, much, MUCH more... preocupying.
Reality is much, much, MUCH more... preocupying.
I still can't believe Trump won.
JustSomeone
Member
The situation in Europe seems much worse to me tbh(I'm also not living in Europe)
capitalCORN
Member
America, the world is watching. Better get that nazi out of your shirt.
The good people of the US enabled this, chief among them white men and women, so I'm not sure how good they actually are.
I'm from Denmark.
I am baffled that Donald Trump managed to become the president and continues to be.
I'm shocked and disgusted that nazis are allowed to hold fucking rallies and be protected by the police. But I guess it makes sense given all the awful stories about police brutality and shootings of black people.
Honestly shocked at how nazis are thriving in the US. That Vice footage from the rally on Charlottesville was a disturbing. Yeah
I am baffled that Donald Trump managed to become the president and continues to be.
I'm shocked and disgusted that nazis are allowed to hold fucking rallies and be protected by the police. But I guess it makes sense given all the awful stories about police brutality and shootings of black people.
Honestly shocked at how nazis are thriving in the US. That Vice footage from the rally on Charlottesville was a disturbing. Yeah
I think that is optimistic. Every podunk dying town outside of the major metro areas are literal factories for creating disenfranchised racists. Those with the capability escape leaving the rest to fester in economic insignificance and the toxicity of the previous generations belief systems. Couple that with a re-enforcing barrage of conspiratorial racist media that is relentless and inescapable. They have no agency to better their situation and are doomed to become the previous generation.
Snoopycat
Banned
I'm a Jamaican who grew up in Scotland which is a mostly white culture. I'm not going to claim it's the land of milk and honey, (more like chips and buckie) but I've never seen anyone wearing a swastika or marching through the streets waving Nazi flags. The closest I've seen was a couple of crumpled looking fat guys slouching underneath a BNP banner on Princess Street. They were getting a ton of abuse from people walking by while two cops sat eating sandwiches in their car.
I read what's happening in America and it seems like people are going crazy. I guess it's been building up for a long time now. Too much pressure. Too much inequality. Not enough love. Despite all these problems there's still a lot of good things about America. I would like to go to New Orleans one day but I will wait until the climate changes and people have cooled themselves.
I read what's happening in America and it seems like people are going crazy. I guess it's been building up for a long time now. Too much pressure. Too much inequality. Not enough love. Despite all these problems there's still a lot of good things about America. I would like to go to New Orleans one day but I will wait until the climate changes and people have cooled themselves.
Liljagare
Member
It's a frustrating nation, I wish I'd have nothing more to do with it, but still got relatives living there so. :\
By all rights, it should have become the pinnacle of a nation, since it was founded at a time when so many mistakes had allready been made in history. But, apparently not.
It's the perfect example imho of that humans do not learn from the past.
And to add to it all, Trump?! GAH!
(Though, most of the times, I just ignore it, we have alot of rising issues in Sweden too, and it's getting worse and worse, swear to god we're going to vote in the SD (Sverige demokraterna) racists next election, because, historically, that has always worked so well, ahmirite? Then we'll have our own little Trump to show off! It just seems like the entire western world is cracking at the seams, again, guess we just have to do it every other generation or so.)
By all rights, it should have become the pinnacle of a nation, since it was founded at a time when so many mistakes had allready been made in history. But, apparently not.
It's the perfect example imho of that humans do not learn from the past.
And to add to it all, Trump?! GAH!
(Though, most of the times, I just ignore it, we have alot of rising issues in Sweden too, and it's getting worse and worse, swear to god we're going to vote in the SD (Sverige demokraterna) racists next election, because, historically, that has always worked so well, ahmirite? Then we'll have our own little Trump to show off! It just seems like the entire western world is cracking at the seams, again, guess we just have to do it every other generation or so.)