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Game Over when MC dies in Persona is a terrible mechanic. Why is this still a thing?

Yeah, personally, this, alongside certain other design decisions, such as not being able to switch around your party freely or auto-saves, are the only things that kind of frustrate me about Persona 5. It's still a great game but I hate shit like this. The main character isn't anymore resilient than the rest of the party nor does he have more HP so getting a Game Over when only he dies is kinda BS in my opinion, especially when it usually happens from a small mistake, like an enemy getting the drop on you or getting a random critical. I've only had to deal with it a few times but, each time I have, I've lost close to an hour of progress and I can't even tell you how aggravating it is. If you ask me, you should only get a Game Over when everyone in your current party is dead. Most RPGs I've played do that and they have never frustrated me from a Game Over and the ones that don't typically don't have scenarios where the main character can die in one turn
 

Ferrio

Banned
The main character isn't anymore resilient than the rest of the party nor does he have more HP so getting a Game Over when only he dies is kinda BS in my opinion, especially when it usually happens from a small mistake, like an enemy getting the drop on you or getting a random critical.

That's not true at all. The main character is extremely OP compared to the other characters, to the point he can solo fights.
 
I really wouldn't view Tetraja as a goto solution. Its got Ma-Dyne level cost , isn't vulnerable to effective decrease via Concentrate,requires frequent use and requires the MCs turn. Its priced to counter Ma-on stuff but at that stage you actually have access to better solutions. It would be significantly improved by a 12 SP version that only targets one ally. I tried using it while farming Liquid Mercury and found it pretty questionable. It certainly exists and has circumstantial use though.
 
That's not true at all. The main character is extremely OP compared to the other characters, to the point he can solo fights.
I meant in terms of taking hits. He can't handle hits better than anyone else within the party. I've definitely solo-ed normal fights with him, won't deny that, but, whenever he died, it never felt like my fault because it would usually happen from him getting ganged up and getting knocked down, either from a weakness or a critical
 

Kyuur

Member
It's weird because the mechanic punishes players in the early game before you would expect the average player to learn how to effectively utilize resistances/buffs/etc. By the time you reach end game you don't even given a fuck because
every person on your team will die for you so you effectively need to have everyone die to lose.

I don't really have a problem with it though -- in 99.9% of instances the only reason you'll get fucked is because you failed to ambush. A phantom thief should be stealthy!

Yeah, personally, this, alongside certain other design decisions, such as not being able to switch around your party freely or auto-saves, are the only things that kind of frustrate me about Persona 5.

Not sure what you mean here -- you definitely can do so.
 

Ferrio

Banned
I meant in terms of taking hits. He can't handle hits better than anyone else within the party. I've definitely solo-ed normal fights with him, won't deny that, but, whenever he died, it never felt like my fault because it would usually happen from him getting ganged up and getting knocked down, either from a weakness or a critical

Yes he can, he literally can be invulnerable to enemies if you know what you're doing. If you're afraid of your MC dying then equip a persona that's strong/nul/whatever against enemies.
 
Not sure what you mean here -- you definitely can do so.
When you're just wandering around or in a safe room? Because I've only ever done it when I'm at the entrance of the Palace or in battle. Can I really switch my party around whenever?

Yes he can, he literally can be invulnerable to enemies if you know what you're doing. If you're afraid of your MC dying then equip a persona that's strong/nul/whatever against enemies.
That's assuming that I'm not going up against different enemies with different weaknesses and attacks. At the very least, most of my Personas don't have multiple nulls, repels, or strongs so, if there's at least one enemy that can exploit it, my MC gets kind of screwed
 
Not sure what you mean here -- you definitely can do so.

Sort of ? You can always swap out of battle. And after late June you can command swap in battle thanks to Star but it'll pronably be November before you can freely swap character for one another.

You also have Futaba's emergency swap around November but that's a bit more random.
 

Kyuur

Member
When you're just wandering around or in a safe room? Because I've only ever done it when I'm at the entrance of the Palace or in battle. Can I really switch my party around whenever?

You can do it while wandering around anywhere. Just go into the menu and the party option, hit square to assign/un-assign party members.
 

Savantcore

Unconfirmed Member
I personally like this mechanic.

Removing it would just make the games easier than they already are.

How would it make it any easier? In either case you still have to actually win the fight, but removing game over just eliminates the need to redo potentially hours of progress.

I think it's an archaic mechanic that serves no purpose whatsoever. Losing is punishment enough; deleting all of your progress since your last save is just cruel.
 

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
The mechanic is fun, it makes decision making more interesting in a tense situation.

When you're just wandering around or in a safe room? Because I've only ever done it when I'm at the entrance of the Palace or in battle. Can I really switch my party around whenever?

Literally at any time, you can go to your party menu and assign who is active between fights.

You unlock a confidant skill later on that even lets you swap party members in and out during combat.
 
You can do it while wandering around anywhere. Just go into the menu and the party option, hit square to assign/un-assign party members.

Literally at any time, you can go to your party menu and assign who is active between fights.

You unlock a confidant skill later on that even lets you swap party members in and out during combat.

...oh God, now I feel like a complete idiot. Can't believe I didn't realize that in the 100+ hours I put into the game. Thank you
 

Ferrio

Banned
That's assuming that I'm not going up against different enemies with different weaknesses and attacks. At the very least, most of my Personas don't have multiple nulls, repels, or strongs so, if there's at least one enemy that can exploit it, my MC gets kind of screwed

Then switch to the correct persona at the beginning of the fight? Even if there's multiple enemies having a strong persona against one type should keep the MC up. Just make sure not to equip one that's weak to any of the enemies.
 

Opa-Pa

Member
Yes he can, he literally can be invulnerable to enemies if you know what you're doing. If you're afraid of your MC dying then equip a persona that's strong/nul/whatever against enemies.

Not only that, but all characters' stats are actually their personas' (except for HP and SP) so technically the MC can take more hits if you know what you're doing, just make personas with a high Endurance stat.

When you're just wandering around or in a safe room? Because I've only ever done it when I'm at the entrance of the Palace or in battle. Can I really switch my party around whenever?

Yeah, you can do so at any place inside palaces, just go to the menu and go to "Stat", here you can add characters with X and remove them with square.

There's a confidant skill that lets you switch them mid-battle as well.
 
Then switch to the correct persona at the beginning of the fight? You have time to do that if you're not getting ambushed, and if you're getting ambushed you've already messed up big and should be punished.
I try but most of my Personas don't always have the necessary mild, repels, etc for each type of enemy

But sometimes I get ambushed almost immediately after leaving a safe area or by complete accident. For such a simple error, it's kind of a big punishment
 

warheat

Member
Well, the first 2 dungeons are harder comparatively speaking to the later ones. A lot of people had troubles with the second dungeon boss, for example.

I think the first 2 dungeons is harder because most people are trying to reach the treasure as fast as possible or even a single day, in a scenario where you don't have access to Invigorate, it is absolutely brutal.

It doesn't help that one of the most popular walkthrough only gives 1 day / dungeon.

But I agree about the inconsistency in boss fight like for example Final boss is too easy compared to 2nd last boss in my opinion.

Absolutely have no clue why you are talking about SMT when it is a spinoff of the main and more prestigious franchise that is known globally as Persona.

"Kaja and Kunda spell, use it. Pay attention to your weakness and enemy weakness and exploit it. Unlike most JRPG, buff, debuff, weakness, and status ailments are extremely important in SMT games and it's the only way you can survive through the game especially in higher difficulty."

Because it applies to all modern megaten games including Persona. We can agree to disagree on Persona is/isn't part of SMT even though past Persona games have SMT in its title in US release.
 

ffvorax

Member
Can be frustrating, but the MC is so powerful that is very hard to see him die, this is something they added probably to make him less godly in the party. I had only 1 game over in all my P5 playtrought (and it was for MC died in the early of the game).

In P4 it happened a couple of times.

In P3 happened much more.

So it's also about how well is managed this thing in the game...
 
Yes, competitionist guides (correctly) mininize wasted time. The game itself also demonstrates that it has mechanisms to stop 1 day clearance if that was designer intended because it does so at times. The mechanism is pretty poorly used at times though (Palace 2 and 6 make pretty good use of it to be fair).

One of the things that makes Palace 1 hard is that Ann's awakening happens way to early in the Palace in terms of completion.
 

Elephant

Neo Member
Ah, this happened to me when I was insta-killed by an Anubis, meaning I lost an hour of progress. I only died that one time throughout the game, but it was considerably frustrating.

People will make excuses for it and suggest explanations, but it does seem like wildly unnecessary mechanic to have, no matter how you twist it.
 
The reason for the Game Over is that the MC is actually already dead in Persona games. The Velvet Room is basically Purgatory, and the MC is trapped there until they can redeem themselves. The MC's existence is temporary outside of the Velvet Room, only allowed in order for this redemption to occur. That's why the MC is always an orphan or a stranger in a new town -- they don't really belong in the world, more like a guardian angel. And so when the MC dies in the world, s/he is sent back to the Velvet Room, to Purgatory. The MC can't be revived because they are already dead.

Or at least that's my head canon.
 

Eumi

Member
Surprised more people aren't mentioning the fact that when the mc is going to die each party member can take the hit for them. Which means that if you play it right you could have seven deaths before a game over. And that's not counting instant-kill nullifying items and persona abilities to revive on death.
 
Surprised more people aren't mentioning the fact that when the mc is going to die each party member can take the hit for them. Which means that if you play it right you could have seven deaths before a game over. And that's not counting instant-kill nullifying items and persona abilities to revive on death.

Because it's the level 9 S-link ability. By the time you have 7 allies who can take a bit for you , you have access to good Persona who Null+ light and dark or who have the the revive Abilities.

This is like saying​ you can 1 hit the final boss after clearing the monster arena in FFX, completely true but also useless to 95+% of the people asking the question.
 

Triteon

Member
Ah, this happened to me when I was insta-killed by an Anubis, meaning I lost an hour of progress. I only died that one time throughout the game, but it was considerably frustrating.

People will make excuses for it and suggest explanations, but it does seem like wildly unnecessary mechanic to have, no matter how you twist it.

It's not twisting anything, Doesn't your post prove it's the only thing making the game challenging at all? You didn't die at any other point, the rest of the game was a cake walk, the game needs something like instadeath to have any kind of challenge.

Everything in the game is stacked in your favour already, you will kill 99% of random regular enemies in the first ambush round. It needs something to make it an actual game rather than an dating sim.

Didn't you change up your persona or consider how to counter in battles with Anubis differently after that occurred?
 
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